Author Topic: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32  (Read 1439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline misha

  • Posts: 12
Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« on: November 22, 2021, 03:39 PM »
What do people do when using LR32 and a tape measure that's slightly off? I really like FastCap Flatback tape, but mine is about 0.5mm long, at least at the 1024mm mark. 1024mm is actually 1024.5mm. This results in having to shave that 0.5mm so that the stops on the rail would fit. If everything was based on the tape measure, there wouldn't be an issue, but I'm mixing systems here.

Should I find a more accurate tape measure? Is there anything else I can do?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline afish

  • Posts: 736
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2021, 04:02 PM »
No matter what tape you use, you are still going to be subject to rule error.  Typically no one is worried about a half a millimeter for woodworking.  However, I can see how it might mess with you in certain situations like when trying to capture a panel between two fixed stops like the LR32.  The easiest thing to do is just make a mental note that your 1024mm mark is a bit long.  I dont know your setup or work flow but the better method is to set up a fence with some type of flag stop or other method that allows you to always come back to exactly the same spot.  When I used to cut on a mft type table I used a 4x8 mft and a long piece of 8020 that had stops that never moved for common cuts.  If you dont have the space to dedicate to a more permanent setup like a full 4x8 cutting station then its good practice (for high accuracy parts) to set your stop make a test cut, check it against a known benchmark.  This could be a already existing panel you are trying to match or in your case the LR32.  Once you have the length/stop dialed in then batch cut the remainder.  Even with semi permanent stops always make a test cut and always batch process as much as you can.

Offline Mortiser

  • Posts: 103
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2021, 05:57 PM »
Try a class 1 tape measure such as those by Tajima or Hultifors.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 129
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2021, 06:17 PM »
A BMI Quicky tape lays flat and can be removed from the holder totally. I had one since lost that was dual scale for those who prefer imperial but I prefer the all metric versions. All mine match with no variation over the length of the tape.


Offline afish

  • Posts: 736
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2021, 06:28 PM »
On a side note have you tried the fast cap TRU32 tape?  When I used to manually cut and drill parts it was my go to tape.  I really liked it.  I didnt have the discrepancy issues with my LR32 either. I might have gotten a good one, not sure.  However I really liked it since I wasnt a metric guy.  If you are cutting using the tru32 system its worth it. 

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 652
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2021, 07:26 PM »
How about just using the rail if that is what you need to match? Set your stops, lay the rail near an edge with one stop hooked, then slide a square up to the other stop. That's exactly where you need to cut. Measure not, cut once. :D
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 07:55 PM by elfick »

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1214
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 04:30 PM »
Could also stick a piece of .5mm thick tape or glue a .5mm substance to the end of the tape measure to decease the error.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 736
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 07:42 PM »
that would decrease everything a half mil.  The problem is some tapes will have errors in only a section.  we ran into this problem in a large shop I worked at. Everyone using different tapes and brand of tapes.  Craftsman tapes are the worst. Not sure of they have gotten better in the last ten years. It got to the point they were not allowed in the shop.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12401
  • Remington Steele - My Third Boy
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2021, 07:26 AM »
If all measurements are off by the same amount then you can bend and adjust the end hook carefully.  Yes, trial and error, but doable for a tape that is universally off.

Peter

Offline Mortiser

  • Posts: 103
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2021, 08:51 AM »
I have known trim crews that required that everyone use the same brand and model of class 1 tape measure. It's become more widely recognized that this is an issue.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 851
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2021, 09:13 AM »
Tape measures are rated by class.  There are Class1, Class2 and Class3 tape measures.

While I can find some class 1 tape measures available online, I cannot find any class1 tapes with adhesive backing available.

https://www.axminstertools.com/us/axminster-master-precision-tape-5m-16ft-102569?glCountry=US&glCurrency=USD

Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 246
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2021, 04:23 PM »
I’d snap up the Axminster tape linked above, but shipping would bring total cost to US of about $40. For not much more I could get a certified Starrett from McMaster-Carr.
The Tajima tapes on Amazon do not mention them as Type 1 or otherwise refer to accuracy.
Hultafors don’t seem to be readily available in the US.

Any other recommendations?
Für uns...ist das Beste gerade gut genug!

Offline misha

  • Posts: 12
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 04:55 PM »
Thank you for the suggestions. For now, I'll use trial and error to create a story stick with the measurements I use most often for cabinet sides, while I will search for class 1 tape.

Similar to @Stan Tillinghast I struggle to find one in the US. So far I came across this one, though judging by delivery estimates, it won't be coming from within the US. I also found a UK store for tape measures so I might order a few from there and swallow the shipping. Probably will cost me less than what I spent on the 4-5 I already have [laughing]


I like the idea of adding a 0.5mm shim to the hook if that offset is consistent across the whole tape scale.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2712
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2021, 08:49 PM »
The HULTAFORS TL3M is available through Ebay, I have one to check my other tapes for accuracy.  Currently $28.00.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 736
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2021, 09:03 PM »
Even with a class 1 tape I would still test fit the 1st panel before batch processing the rest so class 1 or 2 doesnt much mater to me as long as it isnt a craftsman tape. 

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 191
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2021, 06:56 AM »
Thank you for the suggestions. For now, I'll use trial and error to create a story stick with the measurements I use most often for cabinet sides, while I will search for class 1 tape.

Similar to @Stan Tillinghast I struggle to find one in the US. So far I came across this one, though judging by delivery estimates, it won't be coming from within the US. I also found a UK store for tape measures so I might order a few from there and swallow the shipping. Probably will cost me less than what I spent on the 4-5 I already have [laughing]


I like the idea of adding a 0.5mm shim to the hook if that offset is consistent across the whole tape scale.

Found these on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UC318M4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1, and picked up a couple. One sits unused until needed, while the other has primarily been used to verify the accuracy of my other tapes and rules.

FWIW, my other Tajima tapes all match the Class 1 pretty much spot on. This is my favorite, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SZTF7UQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1, while this one runs a close second, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003WJGLJA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

When I first received my Class 1 tapes, I checked them against my other tapes and rules. You can read of my results here, https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/tso-parallel-guide-system-inaccurate-metric-scale/msg646933/#msg646933

Good luck with your choice(s).
Clint

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2021, 08:57 AM »
Checking for matching tapes is a thing that I learned many years ago on a job-site. The guy who was cutting for me kept giving me pieces that did not fit. Turns out that the hook was bent on his tape. We straightened it out and went on with the day, ever after remembering to compare tapes with anyone I work with as soon as we start the job.

Back then I had no idea that there was a class difference even available?
So much of what I do in the cabinet shop now is relative or cut-to-fit, so actual accuracy is not that big of a deal. It is more about repeatability.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline afish

  • Posts: 736
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2021, 09:29 AM »
Checking for matching tapes is a thing that I learned many years ago on a job-site. The guy who was cutting for me kept giving me pieces that did not fit. Turns out that the hook was bent on his tape. We straightened it out and went on with the day, ever after remembering to compare tapes with anyone I work with as soon as we start the job.

Back then I had no idea that there was a class difference even available?
So much of what I do in the cabinet shop now is relative or cut-to-fit, so actual accuracy is not that big of a deal. It is more about repeatability.

100%

Its pretty much what happened to me.  Had a guy cutting for me and kept getting parts that didnt fit, then some would.  I was like WTF are you doing over there.  He was like WHAT??? its dead nuts and a brand new tape.  I stretched out the tapes and there was multiple 2-3 foot sections that would be off by a pretty wide margin then farther down the tape it matched up perfectly again.  So only the parts that fell into the bad spots got cut wrong while others fit perfect. So its very possible to have a tape that is only off in a section or sections. If your solo and using the same tape start to finish then it doesnt really matter.  But fitting to a known measurement that is determined by another rule or cnc machine is different story.     

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: Compensating for tape measure accuracy when using with LR32
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2021, 12:47 PM »
For general use at the bench everyday, I use a Stanley 12' or 16'. The chrome ones. I can't stand those big fat or super long things. They curve so much that marking with one is for rough framers only.
I just make sure that they match up with the Kreg stops on my miter saw and the parts that come from the beam saw. As long as they're all equal, good to go.
I do have more specialty things though, like the flat tape for around curved areas, or a Bosch laser for really long assemblies. That big cornice job from a few weeks ago was in 5 pieces that totaled 534 3/8" wall to wall. It had no way to change/compensate for length with a 90 degree turn on each end, so it had to be dead on. The finished walls were measured on-site with the same tool.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation