Author Topic: Mafell 3yr Warranty - Registration Required w/in 4 Weeks!?!?! (Read 1577 times)

Bugsysiegals · « **on:** February 17, 2021, 09:01 AM »

I’ve seen several of you post about Mafell Duo Doweler and thought it could be nice to have someday, perhaps even some of their other tools, but just noticed their 3 year warranty requires registration within 4 weeks!

Whenever I buy a tool the paperwork ends up in a pile which my wife moves around and gets lost in the shuffle for a period before we decide to clean and organize the house thus I never end up filling out these cards.

That said, I never registered any of my Festool tools and was still able to send back my OF1010 when the base broke. I would have been extremely upset if they said, “Sorry, you didn’t fill out the card within 4 weeks”!

This reminds me of the stores which want you to file a rebate rather than providing the immediate discount because they know people will forget. I try to avoid doing business with retailers who take advantage of people’s forgetfulness or lack of being organized but I’m shocked to see a “high end” tool company with this strategy.

I’m curious if I’m the only one with a distaste of this business practice and whether there’s other retailers of tools to watch out for so people like me don’t get burned?

DynaGlide · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2021, 09:08 AM »

There's only one retailer in the US and from my talks with them, the warranty card is optional. They know who you are and when you purchased.

Festool the warranty goes with the tool per the manufacture date if you can't prove purchase date. Mafell in the US I believe the warranty goes to the original owner, and would possibly be extended on a case by case basis to future owners.

My Big Green Egg has a lifetime warranty, to the original owner, with proof of purchase.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2021, 09:10 AM »

Years back I use to fill out the cards until they seemed more like marketing surveys than warranty registration.

You might check with your dealer - many of them register your tool for you.

MikeGE · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2021, 09:47 AM »

Bosch has, or had, a similar policy with the professional line of tools and accessories. Registering the tool, and major components, within 30 days extended the normal one-year warranty to three years. I registered all of my tools the same day I bought them, or the day they arrived if I purchased them from an online vendor. This never seemed to be a burden and only took a few minutes.

mino · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2021, 11:13 AM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on February 17, 2021, 09:08 AM

Festool the warranty goes with the tool per the manufacture date if you can't prove purchase date.

This.

The main benefit of the registration directly with the manufacturer is to me the international warranty - you can buy a tool anywhere around world and the warranty will hold. This is great especially in Europe as you can get better prices in Germany or elsewhere but warranty locally, directly with Festool. It certainly works that way in Europe (and not just in the EU).

I would be worried only about the theft-insurance aspect of the All-Inclusive warranty if someone attempts to register a tool after a couple years just to make the claim...

Given your massive network of Maffel dealerships, the Global direct-with-manufacturer warranty registration is probably of little value for US-based folks.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2021, 11:33 AM »

You never need to "register" for a warranty with any company. They can't require such a thing as the law makes it clear they can't do that. As was mentioned, warranty card/registration is an information gathering move, not something that needs to be done.

Festool has similar scary wording that you must register within a certain time, it's BS they can't enforce. Just like their various warranty exclusions they list, some of which if they tried to enforce they would be breaking federal law.

Yes, Mafell does make their warranty stuff exceptionally scary looking. Also notice how under no-circumstances are you allowed to use that tool if not a professional per the paperwork they send.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2021, 11:36 AM »

Quote from: mino on February 17, 2021, 11:13 AM

Quote from: DynaGlide on February 17, 2021, 09:08 AM
Festool the warranty goes with the tool per the manufacture date if you can't prove purchase date.
This.

The main benefit of the registration directly with the manufacturer is to me the international warranty - you can buy a tool anywhere around world and the warranty will hold. This is great especially in Europe as you can get better prices in Germany or elsewhere but warranty locally, directly with Festool. It certainly works that way in Europe (and not just in the EU).

Given your massive network of Maffel dealerships, the Global direct-with-manufacturer warranty registration is probably of little value for US-based folks.

International Warranty is interesting. Be very curious how "international it is". If you bought your tool in your country, but then where in the US with it (like you moved here for some reason), I would be very curious if Festool would do a warranty job, as they make clear for us, if it's bought outside the US...no.

Cheese · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2021, 11:37 AM »

The last Mafell product I purchased had a 1 year warranty, however if you registered it with Mafell AG directly, then the warranty was good for 3 years, so that's what I did.

Here's what Mafell's take is on a 1 year warranty:
"Mafell warranty in North America has always been one year, which is usually more than enough. If there were a one-in-a-thousand manufacturing defect with your tool, you would notice it in the first one to two weeks and we would immediately resolve the issue. After that, the tool should last you decades if you take good care of it. All Mafell tools are well-made, but the Corded MT55cc Plunge/Track Saw has a particularly impressive track record: in the eight years we have been selling this saw we have never once replaced a motor! (knock on wood)"

Tom Gensmer · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2021, 01:44 PM »

My memory is that part of the Mafell warranty card involves the applicant confirming that they are a "professional user of power tools".

I had the opportunity to visit Mafell (and Festool!) in Germany a few years ago. Mafell is a class-act, and really seem focused on producing the best tools possible for very specific professional applications. The impression I get is that they're really focused on the professional market, with the hobby market being more of a liability than anything. Therefore, there's almost no marketing of Mafell. If you need it and are working in one of their targeted industries, you probably know about them.

Please note also that, at least in North America, there are no returns on used tools. If you purchase the machine, use it for a day and decide it's the wrong shade of red or just decide it's not the right tool for you, it's your responsibility to find a new home for it. Frankly, I'm a fan of this policy, as it allows the manufacturer and dealer focus on developing new products, and not processing returns by users who didn't know what they were buying.

For Mafell, I own a DD40P, Erika 70, MT55, P1cc, KSS300, KSS400, KSS40, and S35M. I've had to order replacement parts/consumables for several of them, but nothing that would fall under a warranty. Timberwolf Tools has been great to work with, professional and very knowledgeable.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2021, 02:10 PM »

Quote from: Tom Gensmer on February 17, 2021, 01:44 PM

My memory is that part of the Mafell warranty card involves the applicant confirming that they are a "professional user of power tools".

I had the opportunity to visit Mafell (and Festool!) in Germany a few years ago. Mafell is a class-act, and really seem focused on producing the best tools possible for very specific professional applications. The impression I get is that they're really focused on the professional market, with the hobby market being more of a liability than anything. Therefore, there's almost no marketing of Mafell. If you need it and are working in one of their targeted industries, you probably know about them.

Please note also that, at least in North America, there are no returns on used tools. If you purchase the machine, use it for a day and decide it's the wrong shade of red or just decide it's not the right tool for you, it's your responsibility to find a new home for it. Frankly, I'm a fan of this policy, as it allows the manufacturer and dealer focus on developing new products, and not processing returns by users who didn't know what they were buying.

For Mafell, I own a DD40P, Erika 70, MT55, P1cc, KSS300, KSS400, KSS40, and S35M. I've had to order replacement parts/consumables for several of them, but nothing that would fall under a warranty. Timberwolf Tools has been great to work with, professional and very knowledgeable.

I think you summed it up well, most their stuff is clearly for business types. But I think there is clearly a subset of tools that they target to consumers and these are the ones with more normal pricing. Of course I think this mindset scales to their view on the N.American market. They make some stuff for it, other stuff they pass on doing. Of course part of me really likes that they give you options, they have a 120V tool for some, but also offer stock German 230V models. I think TWT will order you pretty much anything in 230V if you want it.

I also would generally agree on your comments about returns. You end up with a massive amount of stuff flowing thru a companies system. It's also just wasteful and not a good aspect of consumerism. Where do all those items sent back go? I do wonder if the 30 day return policy is part of why festool limits what they sell in N.A. so much.

I don't doubt TWT is good on service, I will say there are times I wish it was less human, you end up with one of their folks calling you a lot, you order something and they call you up and start talking to you about it (I see you ordered this, is this what you wanted, etc).

Far as the reliability on the tools, well, in the end, it's all talk. No one believes someone when they goes hyperbole on some of the stuff.

mino · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2021, 06:25 PM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on February 17, 2021, 11:33 AM

You never need to "register" for a warranty with any company. They can't require such a thing as the law makes it clear they can't do that.

Sorry, but they can and do.

It cannot and does not affect the statutory warranty, if any at the jurisdiction. Of course.

But it absolutely can, and often is, a condition for any additional benefits the manufacturer offers beyond a mandated warranty. And there is nothing wrong with that IMO. The reasoning is court-proof in that, without the registration, the manufacturer has no way to check if you are attempting to "cheat" by applying broken tools between jurisdictions etc. etc.

Quote from: DeformedTree on February 17, 2021, 11:36 AM

International Warranty is interesting. Be very curious how "international it is". If you bought your tool in your country, but then where in the US with it (like you moved here for some reason), I would be very curious if Festool would do a warranty job, as they make clear for us, if it's bought outside the US...no.

I mentioned for US it may be different for practical reasons ref. 110/230 etc. and regulatory limitations where Festool USA may not be legally allowed to service a non-US-approved tool.

In Europe/EMEA this works the way that you are expected to return the device/tool to the manufacturer. In most cases you just contact your local manufacturer contact. If there is not one, you can contact any (usually nearest) in other country. Then you deal with them. The only limitation is they may (usually will) not cover international shipping. But this is very reasonable in Europe - think $25 one way - so not really a biggie.

What I have seen (not for Festool!) is that if a given tool/device was/is distributed in the country they will handle it "as usual". If it is not, they may ask you to work with/ship to their contact in a country the tool/device was/is sold in.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2021, 07:04 PM »

Quote from: mino on February 17, 2021, 06:25 PM

Quote from: DeformedTree on February 17, 2021, 11:33 AM
You never need to "register" for a warranty with any company. They can't require such a thing as the law makes it clear they can't do that.
Sorry, but they can and do.

It cannot and does not affect the statutory warranty, if any at the jurisdiction. Of course.

But it absolutely can, and often is, a condition for any additional benefits the manufacturer offers beyond a mandated warranty. And there is nothing wrong with that IMO. The reasoning is court-proof in that, without the registration, the manufacturer has no way to check if you are attempting to "cheat" by applying broken tools between jurisdictions etc. etc.

I'm referring to the US, there are no mandated warranties here (there is implied warranty, but that is open to opinion). Far as rules on warranty, we have the Moss Act which laid down the law on this for the US. If you have a receipt (proof of purchase), you are good to go. You can't mandate registration here at all. Similarly they can't void a warranty because you took it apart, or say a screw fell out and you put a equivalent screw in. Nor can they put a sticker on it that says "warranty void if broken". These among other things. Companies still put stuff like this in their warranties (Festool does), to scare people and such, but they aren't legal. It goes back to companies voiding warranties if you didn't get something fully serviced by them, or you bought a part at the local Auto Parts shop instead of the dealership and so forth. If the user did stuff in good faith, not purposely destroying it, you can't void the warranty.

Now of course we have the issues that companies try to make repairing stuff impossible. Special fasteners, gluing the device together, requiring special software/tools to diagnosis/fix, not selling people parts (heck not even selling independent repair shops parts).

A company like Mafell, it's in their interest to help users fix there stuff (especially in the US), having someone ship their erika 85 to Chicago to fix something, verses helping the owner try to fix it themselves.... go for the owner fix all the way. Plus with the cost of the tools, if you got someone who spends 3-5k per tool, you are going to help them keep that buying pattern going by not angering them.

mino · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2021, 07:43 PM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on February 17, 2021, 07:04 PM

... Companies still put stuff like this in their warranties (Festool does), to scare people and such, but they aren't legal. It goes back to companies voiding warranties if you didn't get something fully serviced by them, or you bought a part at the local Auto Parts shop instead of the dealership and so forth. If the user did stuff in good faith, not purposely destroying it, you can't void the warranty.

No offense, but I feel you are looking a bit too much into it and missing the forest.

Both Festool and Maffel are German companies.
In Germany there were statutory warranties for decades by now, so all their "warranty statements" are aligned with that legal environment in mind.

If Festool /or Maffel/ actually *wanted* to screw you over, they would spend the money on a lawyer and get in "proper" US-aligned statements which will avoid the unenforceable clauses you mention AND avoid all the compensating clauses which are now binding for them but would not be customary in the US ...

You are dealing with companies where still a promise/word is not taken lightly. This has its positive (you can trust their 10 year part claim) and negative (it is hard to get a quick statement from them) sides.

ChuckM · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2021, 09:22 PM »

Professional user? How is that defined and who defines it?

Is someone who uses the tool to make a living considered a professional user?

If I use a tool for a year in many projects as a hobbyist, I'm sure I'd be far more "professional" than someone who is a tradesperson and who just opens the box and uses it for the first time, or for the twelfth time.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2021, 09:32 PM »

Quote from: ChuckM on February 17, 2021, 09:22 PM

Professional user? How is that defined and who defines it?

Is someone who uses the tool to make a living considered a professional user?

If I use a tool for a year in many projects as a hobbyist, I'm sure I'd be far more "professional" than someone who is a tradesperson and who just opens the box and uses it for the first time, or for the twelfth time.

Exactly, thus why I basically ignored the packet that came with my Mafell tools, just like warranty cards on anything else. Keep the receipt, go and use the tool.

MikeGE · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2021, 07:16 AM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on February 17, 2021, 09:32 PM

Exactly, thus why I basically ignored the packet that came with my Mafell tools, just like warranty cards on anything else. Keep the receipt, go and use the tool.

This is fine if you're satisfied with the standard limited warranty. For the extra two years of warranty, I'll spend the couple of minutes it takes to register my tools and equipment. This paid off last year when one of my 18V lithium Bosch batteries failed after just over two years. Had I not taken the time to register the battery when I bought it, I would not have received a new replacement at no cost.

six-point socket II · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2021, 07:46 AM »

Quote from: ChuckM on February 17, 2021, 09:22 PM

Professional user? How is that defined and who defines it?

Is someone who uses the tool to make a living considered a professional user?

If I use a tool for a year in many projects as a hobbyist, I'm sure I'd be far more "professional" than someone who is a tradesperson and who just opens the box and uses it for the first time, or for the twelfth time.

Not sure where you picked that up -> "professional user" - but it's a case of lost in translation, probably.

Since we are talking about German companies, I feel the need to explain the following:

The manufacturer can set out/describe a specific type of use for their tools inside the operating instructions/manual.

So what you will find in many manuals that come with tools purchased in stores catering to the DIY market, or DIY tools in general is a passus restricting warranty to non-commercial use/users. This does not affect implied warranty!

The same is valid for tools set out for commercial use. Implied warranty is a given. Warranty beyond that, offered by the manufacturer, can be bound to their terms. (Registering, (...).)

How to define commercial-use might still be arguable/ could make an insteresting court case. But generally speaking if you bought the DIY tool as a company and send the tool for warranty work with a receipt that shows the company name, profession ... They might not accept it. Especially if the defect is clearly a result of prolonged hard use, 8 hrs/day. Hence, "commercially".

Sometimes they still do, but include a note saying that the tool is not meant for commercial use and they won't honor the warranty a second time.

With Mafell and Festool its quite simple in Germany: Tools are rated for commercial use, implied warranty is set out by law. Warranty beyond that is bound to their respective terms (registering the tool, (...)). Although both Mafell and Festool are known to be very generous in using manufacturing dates or the receipt date to determine wether a tool is still eligible for warranty work beyond implied warranty.

Can't & won't comment on US/CA law or chances in court to challenge current terms and conditions of either manufacturer.

Kind regards,
Oliver

mino · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2021, 07:48 AM »

Quote from: ChuckM on February 17, 2021, 09:22 PM

Professional user? How is that defined and who defines it?

Is someone who uses the tool to make a living considered a professional user?

If I use a tool for a year in many projects as a hobbyist, I'm sure I'd be far more "professional" than someone who is a tradesperson and who just opens the box and uses it for the first time, or for the twelfth time.

The "professional user of power tools" would seem to me more of a get-out-of-jail card should someone misuse the tool, get injured, and try to put a claim against Maffel they did not warn them to not sit on a running table saw. And stuff like that which is popular in some jurisdictions ...

Maffel officially says that you are expected - actually required - to be qualified to use their tools (safely). I would not look beyond this in that wording.

Again, it comes from German culture where it is customary you go to an apprentice school before starting a carpentry job etc. And even if you switch to it while older, it is customary to go to a re-qualification course. Either is required in many cases to be allowed to open for business in that field. Is probably a cultural thing more than anything.

six-point socket II · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2021, 08:23 AM »

Professional user = skilled/trained/instructed/qualified worker/user.

Used in O&M/Manuals to distinguish between people who should and should not use the tool. Mainly for liability reasons.

Professional user is a bad translation. But it shows all the time. Remember that Festool presentation of the TID, where keyless chuck was translated to "toolless recording" from the German words "werkzeuglos" and "Aufnahme". Whoever made that translation did not understand that the english word recording does not equal chuck and a chuck not requiring a key/tool is a keyless chuck. And to the best of my knowledge, toolless/tool-less doesn't even exist. The problem is using an online dictionary and not understanding the results that will always recommend recording if you put in Aufnahme - because that is way more related than Aufnahme -> Werkzeug -> Bohrfutter -> Chuck.

It happens all the time, over all fields of expertise, and drove me crazy while I still worked in this field.

So honestly, everybody, don't get caught up in the wording of translated O&M/Manuals. Especially if those have been translated by translators without a corresponding background/ or without being supplied the correct terminology by the manufacturer.

Kind regards,
Oliver

mino · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2021, 08:41 AM »

Quote from: six-point socket II on February 18, 2021, 08:23 AM

...
Especially if those have been translated by translators without a corresponding background/ or without being supplied the correct terminology by the manufacturer.

There are other translators around beyond those ?
Wow !

six-point socket II · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2021, 08:49 AM »

Absolutely. As usual, it's all about $$$$$.

My ex-employer sponsored us a day of in-house training with this professional: https://www.amazon.de/Fachenglisch-für-Elektrotechniker-Bedienungsanleitungen-verstehen/dp/3790507806 for example.

Kind regards,
Oliver

DeformedTree · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2021, 09:55 AM »

So the warning isn't part of the manual (well, I didn't dig), it's on the documents that TWT makes. I won't type the whole thing in, but it states it is a professional tool, for commercial use only. It is extremely dangerous, not intended for personal, family use and must not be used for such purposes.

In many ways it's standard verbiage for basically anything sold in the US. How they would make the distinction I don't know. Clearly many folks are not inline with the safe working environment. Obviously they are just covering their butts, and trying to drive home the point.