Author Topic: Japanese Kitchen knives  (Read 5963 times)

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8567
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2020, 09:19 AM »

My wife hand washes the cleaver and our Global knives, but then she lays the longer knives edge side down against the metal drying rack.  That explains where some of those shiny spots on the blade edge come from.  In a perfect world you'd immediately wash and dry the knife and put it back into the knife block, but I don't think many people do that unless they have a very high end expensive/custom knife.  The good news is that I'm able to sharpen the knives myself so I have no concern/fear when the knife hits a bone by mistake or occasionally cutting on a plate or having the edge bang against the metal drying rack.  I find it more convenient and less stressful to be able to just use the knife and not have to be overly concerned about babying it and worrying about dulling the knife. 

You are absolutely right though - using a little common sense when it comes to the knives will reduce the frequency of sharpenings and possibly avoid a big chip that will require a lot of the knife to be ground away to fix.

Interesting...just found this on the Shun website:

Without proper knife technique, micro chipping can be the downside of very hard stainless steel. A cook who is unfamiliar with the hardness of Japanese knives and is used to strongly chopping down with a knife against a cutting board, may indeed chip the knife. The damage will be even more pronounced when cutting against ceramic, glass or marble (please don’t!). Micro chips in the blade edge can also occur if a spot of rust develops on the extremely thin edge, too.

The good news is that with a gliding cut, the proper cutting surface, and making sure the knife is thoroughly dry before storing, the chances of chipping are reduced enormously. What’s more, micro chips can easily be sharpened out. Our Warranty Service Department will be happy to help you with that.

Shun knives are also sharpened at a 16º angle.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 09:21 AM by Cheese »

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3762
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2020, 05:14 AM »
I have noticed cutting boards mentioned lately. I have made several cutting boards and very sharp knives that i have put handle scales on. I came across this article years ago and include with any gift.  I don't know where it came from, but I have it in my records for immediate printing.
 
Why Wood Cutting Boards are Better than Plastic or Glass
As I mentioned above, we were required to use plastic cutting boards when catering.  In Plastic and Wooden Cutting Boards by Dean O. Cliver, Ph.D of UC Davis, they noted that “the U.S. Department of Agriculture told us they had no scientific evidence to support their recommendation that plastic, rather than wooden cutting boards”.
The problem is that while it may seem like plastic is non-porous and can’t absorb liquids, with use the surface becomes knife-scarred.  This rough surface is exceptionally difficult to clean, even with bleach or running through the dishwasher.  Wood, by contrast, shows the ability to halt the growth of and kill bacteria applied to its surface.  Both new and used wooden cutting boards maintain this ability equally well.
In a study conducted at the University of Wisconsin (also by Dr. Cliver), they tested bacteria known to produce food poisoning – Salmonella, Listeria and enterohemorrhagic Escherichia coli. These bacteria were placed on cutting boards made from seven different species of trees and four types of plastic. All the wooden boards consistently outperformed the plastic.
The scientists found that three minutes after contaminating a board that 99.9 percent of the bacteria on wooden boards had died, while none of the bacteria died on plastic. Bacterial numbers actually increased on plastic cutting boards held overnight at room temperature, but the scientists could not recover any bacteria from wooden boards treated the same way.
Dr. Cliver also discusses a case-control study of sporadic salmonellosis in Plastic and Wooden Cutting Boards:
 
Basically, wood cutting boards kill bacteria.  They can’t figure out exactly how, but they know that it’s true.  Old or new, wood cutting boards add an extra line of defense to your kitchen.  Bamboo may have similar properties, but the only test data I was able to find about antimicrobial properties of bamboo focused on bamboo cloth.  Read Bamboo – is it Antimicrobial?
Additionally:
•   Wood cutting boards protect your knives and don’t dull them like ceramic or glass cutting boards.
•   Wood is completely biodegradable and renewable.
•   Wood cutting boards may support small business.  Check out your local farmers markets and craft fairs for handmade products.
How to Care for Your Wood Cutting Board
Wash boards after each use in warm, soapy water.  If you have chunks of food stuck on the surface, use a knife or kitchen scraper to remove most of it before washing.  Do not leave boards to soak!  Do not wash wooden cutting boards in the dishwasher.  They will absorb water, and this could trash your cutting board. Dry thoroughly before storing.  I prefer air drying in the dish rack.
To remove odors, rub down with half a lemon or spritz with some vinegar.  This will also help sanitize the board.
Wood cutting boards should be regularly seasoned with a good quality cutting board oil.  You can find them in most hardware stores.  Mineral oil is typically used, since it does not go rancid.  Do not use vegetable oil or olive oil.  There are oil blends such as Block Bros. Block Oil that are made with shelf stable edible oils.  To season, start with a clean, dry cutting board.  Coat entire surface with a layer of oil and rub it in.  Let set to absorb in warm, dry area for 12 to 24 hours.  Buff to remove any oil that may not have been absorbed.

Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1220
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2020, 10:36 AM »
Knife Grinders from Australia has done a lot of testing showing how different cutting boards effect edge retention.  Their testing was obviously not how a person uses a knife in real life, but nevertheless I still found it fascinating that their testing showed that a knife edge could actually get sharper depending on the type of cutting board that was used.  That's completely counterintuitive to me.  Their results also show that an end grain cutting board doesn't necessarily keep an edge sharper longer than a long grain cutting board either.

Here's their video: (audio is rather low and hard to hear).

and a link to their PDF: http://knifegrinders.com.au/SET/Chopping_Boards.pdf.
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Offline demographic

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Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2020, 01:21 PM »
Well, I've just ordered this for my daughter.
She's buying her first house and I'm getting her something I know she'll appreciate and look after.
Santuko.

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 327
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2020, 01:40 PM »
Great job! I am sure she'll be very glad with such a nice gift! A Santoku is a nice multi-purpose knife.  [thumbs up]

I remember the first time I got a real good knife. The only problem was that after getting it I just "needed" to replace all my other knives as well. Oh wait, the other problem was trying to explain to my friends why there really was no chance they could borrow my good knives.  [embarassed] Some still don't understand...  [tongue]

It can become a bit of an addiction. Just reading about Cheese's Chinese Chef's knife made me look on the internet for good deals...  [scared] Thanks Cheese...   [blink]

Ah well, who am I writing this to? Here on the FOG we know all about really expen..... ehrrr necessary tools!  [wink]

[Edit] That should have read "GoingMyWay's Chinese Chef's Knife" of course...
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 03:05 PM by hdv »

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1220
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2020, 02:58 PM »
The Santoku is a good all around knife.  That's been our primary knife prior to getting the Chinese cleaver.  I still feel more comfortable using the Santoku as I'm most familiar with it.
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Offline threesixright

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Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2020, 04:33 PM »
Anybody mentioned this?

https://japanesechefsknife.com


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Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1447
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2020, 04:56 PM »
I'll post these folks again. They have a wonderful shop and selection in New Orleans as well as one in Nashville. They are real small business people just trying to stay afloat. Plus they are nice folks. Like many small businesses the COVID stuff is really hitting them hard with all the restaurant and bar closures and restrictions. So if you are interested in Japanese and other quality knives take a look at their website. I'm not affiliated with them in any way just a satisfied customer. you can also follow them on Instagram.

https://couteliernola.com/

https://www.instagram.com/couteliernola/

Ron

Offline SGreenberg

  • Posts: 24
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2020, 05:30 PM »
Here's another great shop. I've bought knives and sharpening stones there. They have a couple Youtube videos about sharpening that are very helpful too. Looks like they have a sale on now too:

https://www.korin.com

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 803
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2020, 08:57 AM »
When you give someone a knife do NOT forget to ask for a copper coin in return. Seriously — the consequences could be dire if you don’t.


Well, once I got my first Global knife, 20 years plus ago, I got rid of the Wusthofs and other western style knifes, except the very cheap 'mighty' little Mühle (Windmill) all purpose pairing knife, for which I always have a replacement around because they tend to disappear along with potato peelings and such. Apart from that my kitchen is a Global only shop.


And I DID ask the recipients of those discarded knives for a five cent coin.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 06:38 AM by Bert Vanderveen »
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline mike_aa

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Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2021, 04:33 PM »
I have a question for all you Japanese knife aficionados.  I'm thinking of purchasing a Santoku style knife and, based on mentions here, I've been considering the Global, Korin, and Miyabi brands.  Then at Woodcraft, I spotted this Santoku knife made by Kumagoro.  It's supposedly Damascus steel and on sale for half price at $99.  Have any of you heard about this maker and is it worth the $99? 

Thanks, Mike A.


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2021, 10:54 PM »
I have a question for all you Japanese knife aficionados.  I'm thinking of purchasing a Santoku style knife and, based on mentions here, I've been considering the Global, Korin, and Miyabi brands.  Then at Woodcraft, I spotted this Santoku knife made by Kumagoro.  It's supposedly Damascus steel and on sale for half price at $99.  Have any of you heard about this maker and is it worth the $99? 

Thanks, Mike A.

   Here is a little input. My son is a chef and has just done a bunch research and buying of Japanese knives. He said there are several things about the one on sale that are a bit odd for a santoku. Not that it is necessarily bad but maybe not the norm. He suggested going to the chefknivestogo.com site and forum. They have a big selection and a lot of knowledge of all very good knives.  He suspects that you can find the same or better for about the same price.

Seth

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2021, 10:22 PM »
@SRSemenza  Hi Seth, Thanks for the response and thank your son for me!  That WoodCraft offering did look a little sketchy so I'm glad your son weighed in on it.  I took a quick look at that chef's site he recommended and I was surprised to see some lower-priced offerings that had rave reviews.  I guess I have more research to do! 

The only issue is it seems the more I look, the more confused I get!  Although I'm pretty much set on trying the Santoku, I'm also thinking the Nakiri or Gyutu might work well, too.  This can become a rabbit hole real fast!   [eek]

Thanks, Mike A.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8567
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2021, 10:46 PM »
Hey Mike, FWIW...I'd highly recommend the Santoku style knife. I've used Wusthof chef style knives for the last 30 years, however, once I purchased the Shun Santoku style knife about 10 years ago, I'll never go back to the traditional style knife. There's just a huge difference and ease of use with the Santoku.

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Japanese Kitchen knives
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2021, 01:35 PM »
@Cheese  Like you, I have been using chef's knives for awhile.  The ones I have are from the long discontinued Marks Exaktor line.  They're nicely balanced, pretty sharp, and have been working fine for me, but based on what I've read here and in other threads, it looks like the Santoku would be much better.  So I am really sold on the Santoku style and had my eye on a nice looking Korin or a Myabi.  I also saw some from Global that looked good, too.  But then I saw that the Nakiri style kind of works well with vegetables (like a cleaver) with a chopping action so I was also considering that.  When I went to the website Seth recommended, it looked like there were a good number that were under $100, but had really good reviews.  Maybe I should get both styles and get the less expensive Nakiri style to try out.  See what you guys did to me by posting all this good info here!   [scared]  [big grin]