Author Topic: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery  (Read 12627 times)

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6680
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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2018, 08:44 PM »
My favorite knives are Schmitt Brothers, sharp as (well you know), and hold an edge forever.

Tom

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10299
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2018, 02:00 PM »
Here's a photo of the Epicurean cutting board and the 5 knives I use the most often. Three Shun's and two Wusthof's.

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 2286
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2018, 03:28 PM »
Since I just sharpened our knives on Monday and we had a big tomato for our burgers I thought we'd play around a little and see just how sharp it was.  I normally test for sharpness using regular office paper or I actually prefer thin magazine paper if we happen to have any old magazines lying around.

It's not as sharp or as easy to just push slice as I've seen in some videos on YouTube, but I'm still pretty happy with the result.  The knife had also been used to cut some things after I sharpened it on Monday so it wasn't straight off of the sharpener.

I tried slicing first and couldn't do nearly as well as my wife.  She has better knife skills than me.



Inquiring Minds Want to Know

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Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 2286
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2018, 05:40 PM »
I had mentioned in my first post that I had acquired various gadgets that help me sharpen my knives.  I believe I learned about both of these products by watching Clay Allison's (Wicked Edge) YouTube videos

The first and probably most frequently used item is a lighted jewler's loupe:




I started out with basic non illuminated loupes and I discovered that I actually needed some closeup illumination to help see the blade edge.  It's amazing how you can see little microchips and other imperfections in the edge with 10x magnification.

The other item that I got is CATRA Blade Protractor:




It's basically a laser pointer that bisects the cutting edge to show you the angle that each bevel is sharpened at.  It's great for showing what angles a knife has previously been sharpened at if you want to match the angle exactly.  It can also show how polished the edge is and can show the type of grind that was applied to the edge.

I'll share the last gadget for measuring sharpness in my next post.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

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Offline hdv

  • Posts: 486
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2018, 02:52 PM »
After reading this thread I decided to try out the Work Sharp Culinary E5. Today I've sharpened a couple of Zwillinge knives with it and I must say that I am quite happy with the results. I might be able to get my knives sharper by hand (I am a proficient sharpener if I may say so myself), but not in this little time, with so little effort, and with this much consistency.

So thanks FOG for recommending this tool!

Online GoingMyWay

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2018, 03:06 PM »
That's terrific and it looks like a neat product!  Was there any metal or abrasive dust left behind after you were done?  I read that it has a built in vacuum to suck up any debris.  The only slight downside to using the regular Work Sharp or Work Sharp Ken Onion Edition is the dust left behind on the counter.

I think the convenience and consistency are very important.  If it's quick, easy, and reliable then there's no reason not to use it. 

The Wicked Edge System is great but, thinking about needing to set it up and then go through the various grits by hand kinda makes me lose interest in sharpening very fast.
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Offline hdv

  • Posts: 486
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2018, 11:15 AM »
I've attached 2 photo's. One shows the dust I removed from the device after sharpening about 10 knives. Half of them at the most aggressive setting. During normal use I've not noticed any dust on the counter. None at all.

The other shows a fan behind the belt. That fan creates a small draft. Enough for cooling and keeping any metal dust in the device, but definitely not enough to create suction. I am afraid there is no built-in vacuum. And from what I see I doubt that would be a wise feature for this device either. However the device is easily cleaned. I just remove the belt and clean the compartment with a stiff brush. That's all there is to it.

HTH

Online GoingMyWay

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2018, 12:42 PM »
Thanks for the pictures and the description of how it manages dust. 

The Amazon product description for the sharpener said it has a built in vacuum.  I suppose that's just their marketing spin or it's a matter of semantics if a draft is the same thing as a vacuum (bottom line is there's no mess left on the counter which is a good thing):

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Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 564
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2018, 12:19 PM »
@GoingMyWay thank you for the great review on the different sharpeners.   I have an Apex pro but find it a pain to haul it out and set it up. And being a lazy guy that I am, I find the  Ken Onion appealing.

Is it possible to set up intermediate angles such as 17 or 18 degrees accurately on the Ken onion Worksharp?  And is it possible to do it consistently?

Vijay
Vijay Kumar

Online GoingMyWay

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2018, 08:47 PM »
Hi Vijay.  I'm glad you found the post helpful.  There is an intermediate setting in between 15 and 20 degrees on the Worksharp Ken Onion Edition.  That should approximate about 17-18 degrees.  I've never used that setting - I've only used 15 degrees.  The Blade Grinding Attachment will allow you to set a specific degree, but I question how accurate that really is since you're basically "freehand" sharpening with no guide.  You just "zero" the blade by placing it on the reference plate before each pass on the belt.

I like using the Blade Grinding Attachment for 2 reasons - the belt is wider and the side of the knife is not riding against an edge guide to get marred/scarred/scratched (this can probably be eliminated by taping the knife with tape).

I think one shouldn't get too hungup on a specific sharpening angle.  I'd venture to say that there is no precision when sharpening by hand with nothing more than a sharpening stone - that's not to say it's a bad thing, just no need.  The most important thing to do is to create an apex at the blade's edge.  Then it's not really important what angle or degrees you're at.

Honestly, I've always had the Worksharp Ken Onion Edition set at 15 degrees, but I think the blade protractor was showing more like 20 degrees+ and the angle was not even on both sides.  Nevertheless, the paper cut test was very good and I felt like it was a very sharp edge that I was able to achieve in the shortest amount of time possible.
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Offline Kevin D.

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2018, 12:19 AM »
I use my Tormek for really dull knives or ones that have nicks from cutting through bones. I use a steel to maintain the sharpness.

Same here.  No comparison.
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Offline vkumar

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2018, 02:13 PM »
Hi Vijay.  I'm glad you found the post helpful.  There is an intermediate setting in between 15 and 20 degrees on the Worksharp Ken Onion Edition.  That should approximate about 17-18 degrees.  I've never used that setting - I've only used 15 degrees.  The Blade Grinding Attachment will allow you to set a specific degree, but I question how accurate that really is since you're basically "freehand" sharpening with no guide.  You just "zero" the blade by placing it on the reference plate before each pass on the belt.

I like using the Blade Grinding Attachment for 2 reasons - the belt is wider and the side of the knife is not riding against an edge guide to get marred/scarred/scratched (this can probably be eliminated by taping the knife with tape).

I think one shouldn't get too hungup on a specific sharpening angle.  I'd venture to say that there is no precision when sharpening by hand with nothing more than a sharpening stone - that's not to say it's a bad thing, just no need.  The most important thing to do is to create an apex at the blade's edge.  Then it's not really important what angle or degrees you're at.

Honestly, I've always had the Worksharp Ken Onion Edition set at 15 degrees, but I think the blade protractor was showing more like 20 degrees+ and the angle was not even on both sides.  Nevertheless, the paper cut test was very good and I felt like it was a very sharp edge that I was able to achieve in the shortest amount of time possible.

Thank you @GoingMyWay for the detailed writeup. Looks like this will work for my intended use. About to spring for it.
Vijay Kumar

Online GoingMyWay

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2018, 02:57 PM »
You're very welcome!  I hope you share your feedback and results.
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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1742
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2018, 03:21 PM »
Hi,

In my very early days of collecting knives, I traded for a Spyderco Sharpmaker and it's what I use ever since. I use it at the pre-defined angles, I use it as bench stone and I use it on everything from my EDC knives, kitchen knives, razor to tools. Most meet a leather strop afterwards, one side with a super fine grit polishing paste, the other pure leather. I get the results I want/need with this setup and the sharpmaker itself and the rods are still the same I traded for over a decade ago ...

Btw: the rods are easily cleaned with an eraser.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Online GoingMyWay

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2020, 10:17 AM »
I had been meaning to post this for the last 2 years.

Another piece of equipment that I have to help with sharpening or in this case determining sharpness is the Edge-On Up Edge Tester.







It's basically just a scale that measures the amount of force required to cut through the test media.  It definitely has its own limitations, but nevertheless I still feel it is a way to somewhat objectively measure how sharp an edge is.

I recently picked up a kangaroo tail hanging strop.  It's supposed to be the strongest leather in the world.  I got it to remove the wire edge after sharpening.



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Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 301
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2020, 03:41 PM »
I’m the kind of guy who has more money than time and more time than sense. I have the Apex Pro system which I have used once. I have a Wicked Edge Go (IIRC). What I have been using is the Spyderco Sharpmaker because it’s right in the drawer in the kitchen. In my defense, my garage workshop is still a mess from our last move. That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.

I would be happy to buy a Work Sharp Ken Onion Edition if it is faster and still gets good results. Would I need the blade grinder attachment?
Für uns...ist das Beste gerade gut genug!

Online GoingMyWay

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2020, 04:27 PM »
I still think the Work Sharp Ken Onion Edition is the best and fastest way I've found to sharpen knives.  I started off with just the regular Ken Onion Edition and later added the Blade Grinding Attachment.  The regular base model worked perfectly fine.

I might have actually gotten slightly better results with this model because the blade angle is set using the guides as you pull the knife through.  The Blade Grinding attachment requires you to "zero" the blade on the rest and then freehand the blade across the belt so that provides more opportunity for my hand to move and change the angle ever so slightly.

I think the main reasons why I upgraded to the Blade Grinding Attachment were:
  • The angle guide arms on the regular Ken Onion Edition would collect abrasive dust and/or metal dust and would leave a mark on the side of the knife as I passed the knife through - the solution was to apply blue painter's tape to the sides of the knife, but that was one extra step that I was kind of lazy to do (wiping the guide arms with a damp paper towel might have also been sufficient, but it was still an extra thing to do and I'd also need to remember to do it).
  • You can set a greater range of angles with the Blade Grinding Attachment - 10° to 35° vs 15° to 30° (maybe not all the useful since most knives are probably between 15° to 20° - I sharpen my Global knives and the Chinese Cleaver at 15°)
  • The belts are wider and bigger with the Blade Grinding Attachment

Sharpeningsupplies.com is selling the Ken Onion Edition with the Blade Grinding Attachment and a Strop for $199.95: https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Work-Sharp-Ken-Onion-Elite-Knife-Sharpening-Kit-P1831.aspx.  That seems like a pretty good deal vs buying separately.  Amazon is cheaper if you just want to buy the Ken Onion Edition.  I have no affiliation with Sharpeningsupplies.com.  I only stumbled upon them when I was looking for more test media for my Edge-On Up Edge Tester.
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Offline hdv

  • Posts: 486
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2020, 05:15 PM »
I have their Work Sharp E5 Culinary and am very happy with it.   [smile]  I use it to sharpen all my knives, except a few Japanese knives. Those I prefer to sharpen by hand. I do not have a scientific explanation for it, so it might just be emotional, but I feel better when those knives are carefully sharpened on my Shaptons.  [embarassed]

[Edit] By the way, thanks to this forum! I found out about this sharpener through posts from you guys!

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3783
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2020, 12:29 PM »
When ever we visit our daughter in DC area, I take my sharpening stones with me. I spend at least a couple of hours sharpening her kitchen knives. I use diamond stones for that project with a Norton oil stone (I use water) that I inherited from my father for the final edge. I finish off with a steel rod, or just a few very light touches with their stone to take off the wire edge.

A few entries back, Dexter cutlery was mentioned. I have set that I purchased 70 years ago. (I am only 39. so I must have purchased in my former life). I was taking a course in slaughtering and meat cutting at U-Conn. I picked the 2 piece set directly from the factory in Southbridge, MA. As soon as I saw the name "Dexter" I did my research. "Dexter" is now "Dexter-Russell" and still produced in the same town as in 1950.

I looked up the models that I have. One is a skinning knife that still has the original (close to the original shape). It is listed as an antique, but still looks the same. The skinning knife I don't use so much. It is sharpened for skinning as it was meant to be used. The angle of sharpening is not as thin as for slicing a cut of meat. I have other knifes for that action.

The boning knife I could not find listed. That knife has been sharpened so many times, it should be classified as a fillet knife. They both have the straight wooden handles with two rivets. I still use that knife any time I have to bone a ham, a lamb shank or any thing that needs boning. I keep that knife very sharp but not as thin an edge as my slicing knives.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 301
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2020, 01:07 PM »
OK, I’ve ordered the Work Sharp Ken Onion edition and the knife sharpening attachment—it’s weird you have to buy the whole WSKO then toss away everything but the motor, and the name is so nondescript it is easily confused with a number of other offerings.
I now have—thanks to this thread:
1. A magnifying loupe
2. A laser knife edge angle protractor
3. A whatchamacallit to measure the force of severing the little thread

Once the WSKOKSA thingy arrives, I can compare it, the Wicked Edge GO, and the Apex Pro systems. Don’t think I’ll make a YT video though. My older son got me into knives, as he did into firearms, then having more money and time than he I went whole hog.
I do have a Spiderco Sharpmaker, but after seeing the YT video that showed the edge produced by the Sharpmaker is more fragile, I will be interested in testing that too.
Will post results just for fun!
Für uns...ist das Beste gerade gut genug!

Online GoingMyWay

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Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2020, 03:37 PM »
This is awesome to hear (apologies for causing you to spend the extra money on all these goodies though)!

I'm looking forward to hearing about your results!
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

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Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 906
Re: Sharpening Kitchen Cutlery
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2022, 05:38 PM »
OK, I’ve ordered the Work Sharp Ken Onion edition and the knife sharpening attachment—it’s weird you have to buy the whole WSKO then toss away everything but the motor, and the name is so nondescript it is easily confused with a number of other offerings.
I now have—thanks to this thread:
1. A magnifying loupe
2. A laser knife edge angle protractor
3. A whatchamacallit to measure the force of severing the little thread

Once the WSKOKSA thingy arrives, I can compare it, the Wicked Edge GO, and the Apex Pro systems. Don’t think I’ll make a YT video though. My older son got me into knives, as he did into firearms, then having more money and time than he I went whole hog.
I do have a Spiderco Sharpmaker, but after seeing the YT video that showed the edge produced by the Sharpmaker is more fragile, I will be interested in testing that too.
Will post results just for fun!

How are you coming along with the Ken Onion? 

I just bought the Ken Onion with the grinder attachment but am a little worried whether I should have just got something like the Precision Adjust which would take a lot longer but have a guaranteed consistent angle and produce a sharper edge.  How hard are you finding it to keep a consistent angle?