Author Topic: Car Issue  (Read 1626 times)

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Offline Mike Goetzke

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Car Issue
« on: November 15, 2022, 09:35 AM »
My wife has a 2016 Nissan Rogue. It only has about 5000 miles on it  [eek] . Especially with COVID she hasn't driven it much or for a while. Yesterday she went to drive it to an appointment not too far from the house is started shaking (I know, misfire). She got home and yeah with a 4 banger it is shaking pretty bad. Just a day before this I pulled her car out of the garage and it idled fine.

I read the codes and it had:

P0301 - Cyl 1 Misfire
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cyl Misfire

P219A (found this in a deeper menu)

I did the easy stuff - cleaned the mass air flow sensor, checked for loose wiring, and checked the air filter.

I have moved her car out of my shop on many occasions without problem and about 6 months ago I drove it for an emissions check and it ran fine.

Only other thing I thinking is sour fuel? Was thinking of draining it (it has 1/2 tank) and replacing with fresh and some fuel system cleaner.

Any help welcome - Thanks

Offline Holzhacker

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2022, 09:46 AM »
Maybe a bad ignition coil.
You would want to see if that car as a coil for each plug or several for a combination of plugs.
The coils do go bad.
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2022, 10:27 AM »
Maybe a bad ignition coil.
You would want to see if that car as a coil for each plug or several for a combination of plugs.
The coils do go bad.

Just came in from the garage. I just swapped the #1 & #2 coils and have same multi-cylinder code and still #1 misfire. After watching a video I would expect that the misfire would have gone to #2.

So is fuel system next?

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2022, 10:33 AM »
Well the least intrusive option is the fuel condition.

You mentioned draining the tank and replacing with fresh fuel but since you have about half a tank now maybe top off with some fresh fuel and run for a bit and see if it smooths out.

Draining and going with all fresh fuel is better overall and might get it to clear up faster but a little more work.

Since you said the fuel was old I think before I dove into diagnosing and replacing parts I would try some fresh fuel.
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Offline woodwise

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2022, 10:42 AM »
ECU can take time to report error codes. You may actually have to drive the car around before it would report the misfire moving from 1 to 2. It also takes a number of cycles before an error will be cleared which is to say, you may still see a misfire on 1 even after it is no longer occurring.

Coil packs have been an issue that manifests the way you describe, but it may also be fuel related.

A vehicle stored with a partial tank will pull moisture into the tank as the temperature fluctuates. Water in the fuel system could certainly cause the issues you are experiencing. I would actually tell you to avoid a fuel system treatment as that would add one more variable. Fuel tanks on recent cars can be very difficult to drain/syphon. If this is the case, you may be better off to add fresh fuel to dilute what is already there, then start and run the car until it comes up to temperature and see if symptoms improve.
If the car started and drove fine for your wife, and then developed a persistent misfire which has not resolved I would tend not to think of a fuel issue. The fuel system in the Rogue should circulate fuel from the tank to the engine and back constantly.

Let us know what you try and what happens.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 938
Re: Car Issue
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2022, 11:24 AM »
ECU can take time to report error codes. You may actually have to drive the car around before it would report the misfire moving from 1 to 2. It also takes a number of cycles before an error will be cleared which is to say, you may still see a misfire on 1 even after it is no longer occurring.

Coil packs have been an issue that manifests the way you describe, but it may also be fuel related.

A vehicle stored with a partial tank will pull moisture into the tank as the temperature fluctuates. Water in the fuel system could certainly cause the issues you are experiencing. I would actually tell you to avoid a fuel system treatment as that would add one more variable. Fuel tanks on recent cars can be very difficult to drain/syphon. If this is the case, you may be better off to add fresh fuel to dilute what is already there, then start and run the car until it comes up to temperature and see if symptoms improve.
If the car started and drove fine for your wife, and then developed a persistent misfire which has not resolved I would tend not to think of a fuel issue. The fuel system in the Rogue should circulate fuel from the tank to the engine and back constantly.

Let us know what you try and what happens.

Thanks for the help.

I cleared the codes before swapping the coils but I could run it around on the road too.

I have seen videos of cleaning injectors. This is new for me but is it the next step after adding fresh fuel?

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2022, 01:09 PM »
Added fresh fuel - no luck.

This reminds me of an old Pontiac I had that had a bad I think ignition control module.

Offline squall_line

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2022, 01:55 PM »
How has the weather been lately?  Any cold snap that might chase rodents in and under the hood to wreck havoc on the wiring?

Offline DutchFog

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2022, 02:06 PM »
Also, change the spark plugs.

To clean the injectors, use a fuel addon. BUT only add it, if the fuel tank is almost empty

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2022, 05:57 PM »
Fixed it!

Thanks to all for taking time out to respond. I called the local dealer tech and he was surprisingly very helpful. I told him what I had done so far and about the codes. He asked if I swapped the plug. I was hesitant because this car has the deep well that the plug goes in and a strange 14mm socket. Really wasn't to difficult to swap the plugs and the misfire followed the plug. 4,500 miles and a plug failure?

Surprise was it cost $20 for one spark plug but cheaper than a $200 diagnostic fee the dealer wants.

Back in business! [big grin]

Offline Mini Me

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2022, 07:26 PM »
Also, change the spark plugs.

To clean the injectors, use a fuel addon. BUT only add it, if the fuel tank is almost empty

Having owned a workshop, cleaning injectors with fuel additives is nearly a waste of time and pushes debris into the injector screens from the fuel rails which then limits fuel delivery into the cylinders and might but not always fix the injector issue causing the problem. A big warning, modern injector systems operate at 1000's of PSI so they present very real injury risks when working on them.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2022, 09:50 PM »
Oh no my car issues came back. I now got a P0303 code that means cylinder 3 misfire. So I changed out all the spark plugs. When I ran it it idled a bit rough and received a P0300 multi cylinder misfire. I cleared the codes and ran the car for about 10 miles this evening and seems smooth except idle is a bit rough still but no codes.

I looked closer at the old plugs I removed and all look to have more carbon than I would expect plus I noticed all had oil from the plug seal all the way down the threads. I have read on this design a bad valve cover seal can cause this. This seems like a poor design. I see it's a bear to remove the cover. You even need to support the engine from below because you need to remove the engine mount!

Anyone hear of this issue? Would this be more prevalent on a very low mile car?

I'm thinking of just driving the car as much as I can on shortish trips to see if the rough idle goes away or if I get another check engine light.

Offline Blues

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2022, 03:53 PM »
My 2 cents. Yes your head gasket and seal might need replacement. Not an easy fix. If it was me, time to move on unless there is some sentimental attachment to put more time and money into it. Sorry.

Offline squall_line

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2022, 05:53 PM »
My 2 cents. Yes your head gasket and seal might need replacement. Not an easy fix. If it was me, time to move on unless there is some sentimental attachment to put more time and money into it. Sorry.

A 2016 with 5,000 miles shouldn't have a blown head gasket unless someone really beat up on it during that time.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2022, 07:05 PM »
My 2 cents. Yes your head gasket and seal might need replacement. Not an easy fix. If it was me, time to move on unless there is some sentimental attachment to put more time and money into it. Sorry.

A 2016 with 5,000 miles shouldn't have a blown head gasket unless someone really beat up on it during that time.

My thoughts too. I looked closer at the original plugs and if there was an oil issue from the valve cover the top of the plug and coil boot I think would be wet with oil but mine are completely dry. The liquid I see on the plug threads smells strongly of fuel.

I'm contemplating replacing the coils and/or trying to diagnose the fuel supply but yeah close to having to bring it to the dealer.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2022, 08:34 PM »
I would suggest getting it diagnosed.  There can be numerous causes which include vacuum leaks, coils, and also three different solenoids that are a bear to get to.

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2022, 10:19 PM »
A 2016 with 5,000 miles shouldn't have a blown head gasket unless someone really beat up on it during that time.

I agree with that statement however, a blown head gasket WILL give you a lopsided idle because all the cylinders are not firing all of the time but they do fire as they dry out. Once on the highway, everything smoothes out fairly well but there is a noticeable lack of power.

An easy way to diagnose the blown head gasket situation is to get the engine up to temperature and then pull the dipstick and look at the color of the oil. If it's the color of a chocolate malt...that's not good [sad]...there is a water leak somewhere and it's probably the head gasket/gaskets.

If it just looks like oil, dirty or otherwise, then you may have better options.


Offline bobtskutter

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2022, 03:55 AM »
A blown head gasket will also require cooling water top up and the exhaust may have a sweet smell to it (when the engine is running).  CAUTION EXHAUST FUMES ARE TOXIC!!!

5000 miles on a 7year old car is not a good thing for the car.  The engine has likely spent most of it's time in cold start mode and probably has excessive amounts of wear, and maybe even coke build up in the exhaust manifold.  I suggest taking it to a workshop and have them diagnose the fault.  If it's terminal, sell the car.  If it's not terminal and can be repaired, drive the car more.  Take it out for a good thrashing every week to heat up the engine and drive system, drive out moisture and keep the oil circulating.

Sorry to be the dark cloud.

Regards
bob

Offline Mini Me

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2022, 05:42 AM »
My 2 cents. Yes your head gasket and seal might need replacement. Not an easy fix. If it was me, time to move on unless there is some sentimental attachment to put more time and money into it. Sorry.

His explanation might not have been clear, it is the cam (valve) cover that might be leaking not the head gasket.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Car Issue
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2022, 10:23 AM »
A blown head gasket will also require cooling water top up and the exhaust may have a sweet smell to it (when the engine is running).  CAUTION EXHAUST FUMES ARE TOXIC!!!

5000 miles on a 7year old car is not a good thing for the car.  The engine has likely spent most of it's time in cold start mode and probably has excessive amounts of wear, and maybe even coke build up in the exhaust manifold.  I suggest taking it to a workshop and have them diagnose the fault.  If it's terminal, sell the car.  If it's not terminal and can be repaired, drive the car more.  Take it out for a good thrashing every week to heat up the engine and drive system, drive out moisture and keep the oil circulating.

Sorry to be the dark cloud.

Regards
bob

Bob brings up several important points in that cars need to be driven but more importantly, the engine needs to be warmed up enough to evaporate any moisture or acidic elements in the system. Continual 5 minute trips to the store are extremely tough on the automobile because the engine never gets hot enough to evaporate liquids. This is even a larger problem if you're using synthetic oil and changing it only once a year. Changing oil is a great way to drain the moisture and acidic fluids from the engine that attack the seals, gaskets, bearings and rings.