Author Topic: HVLP guns  (Read 9325 times)

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1394
HVLP guns
« on: December 01, 2021, 10:02 AM »
I have a 4 stage Fuji turbine system with the standard bottom feed cup. I'd like to get a gravity feed sprayer to go with it but all I see at the big box stores are HVLP guns that appear to need to use a regular compressor verses a turbine for air delivery.  I'll suck it up and spend $400 if I need to get a Fuji gun but what other alternatives are there?  I want to spray latex enamel for a toy chest I'm finishing up this weekend.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline woodwise

  • Posts: 31
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2021, 10:20 AM »
You may consider a Gravity Conversion Kit. Much less expensive if you don't need 2 guns.

https://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/fuji-parts-accessories/fuji-9960-u-tube-gravity-cup-conversion-kit-4pxgk
(no affiliation or endorsement just the first link I saw with a picture)


Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1394
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2021, 10:33 AM »
You may consider a Gravity Conversion Kit. Much less expensive if you don't need 2 guns.

https://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/fuji-parts-accessories/fuji-9960-u-tube-gravity-cup-conversion-kit-4pxgk
(no affiliation or endorsement just the first link I saw with a picture)

I spoke to Roger and decided it's always better to have more than one of anything.   ;D ;D  except wives, that is...
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 99
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2021, 05:21 AM »
I have a 4 stage Fuji turbine system with the standard bottom feed cup. I'd like to get a gravity feed sprayer to go with it but all I see at the big box stores are HVLP guns that appear to need to use a regular compressor verses a turbine for air delivery.  I'll suck it up and spend $400 if I need to get a Fuji gun but what other alternatives are there?  I want to spray latex enamel for a toy chest I'm finishing up this weekend.

What's the advantage of the gravity feed? I'm thinking of a Fuji, and you get to pick a gun, so I'm interested in opinions. (Mine will be for cabinet work initially, but then the sky's the limit...)

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2021, 05:56 AM »
If spraying Latex is the primary motivation I will add that spraying latex from any type of turbine or compressor HVLP has proven to be far from ideal.  Can it be done, yes but is still going to require considerable thinning and difficulty getting good results.  I have found there is so substitute for an airless sprayer when it comes to latex.  I have had large rigs in the past but sold them off and didnt want another one.  I mostly wanted one for spraying doors (non cabinet) and trim.  I bought the Graco cordless (cant remember the model off the top of my head) but it uses Dewalt batteries.  I got the one NOT rated for lacquer and love it.  It sprays un-thinned latex all day long with zero issues and lays down a nice finish.  The cordless freedom makes it super easy to go from room to room.  If I had to find a flaw it would be the cup tends to run out quickly but thats not the fault of the gun they make a bigger cup but I think it might make it to big and heavy at that point.  I would rather just do extra fill or two and keep the gun lighter and more nimble.  Some people complain they dont last but I think its a cleaning and storage issue.  I have had mine for several years always clean it well and keep pump armor in it when not in use and it works great every time with no issue.  If it broke today I would buy another ASAP without hesitation.   

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1448
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2021, 07:52 AM »
If spraying Latex is the primary motivation I will add that spraying latex from any type of turbine or compressor HVLP has proven to be far from ideal.  Can it be done, yes but is still going to require considerable thinning and difficulty getting good results.  I have found there is so substitute for an airless sprayer when it comes to latex.  I have had large rigs in the past but sold them off and didnt want another one.  I mostly wanted one for spraying doors (non cabinet) and trim.  I bought the Graco cordless (cant remember the model off the top of my head) but it uses Dewalt batteries.  I got the one NOT rated for lacquer and love it.  It sprays un-thinned latex all day long with zero issues and lays down a nice finish.  The cordless freedom makes it super easy to go from room to room.  If I had to find a flaw it would be the cup tends to run out quickly but thats not the fault of the gun they make a bigger cup but I think it might make it to big and heavy at that point.  I would rather just do extra fill or two and keep the gun lighter and more nimble.  Some people complain they dont last but I think its a cleaning and storage issue.  I have had mine for several years always clean it well and keep pump armor in it when not in use and it works great every time with no issue.  If it broke today I would buy another ASAP without hesitation.   

@afish I like the Fuji MM5 for doing KA+, hate using it for thinning to do latex like you mentioned. Is that Graco easy to adjust to and does it spray most latex out of the can?
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2021, 09:15 AM »
I bought the Graco cordless (cant remember the model off the top of my head) but it uses Dewalt batteries.  I got the one NOT rated for lacquer and love it.  It sprays un-thinned latex all day long with zero issues and lays down a nice finish.     

@afish I like the Fuji MM5 for doing KA+, hate using it for thinning to do latex like you mentioned. Is that Graco easy to adjust to and does it spray most latex out of the can?

I've been looking to replace my Binks HVLP with a small Graco Fine Finish cordless for the last 3-4 years. Just noticed they've changed the names of the guns again, this must be the 4th or 5th iteration.  [unsure]  Started with Fine Finish...then TrueCoat...then Ultimate...and now TC Pro.

https://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ced/literature/brochures/344185/344185EN-B.pdf
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 09:22 AM by Cheese »

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1448
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2021, 09:44 AM »
I bought the Graco cordless (cant remember the model off the top of my head) but it uses Dewalt batteries.  I got the one NOT rated for lacquer and love it.  It sprays un-thinned latex all day long with zero issues and lays down a nice finish.     

@afish I like the Fuji MM5 for doing KA+, hate using it for thinning to do latex like you mentioned. Is that Graco easy to adjust to and does it spray most latex out of the can?

I've been looking to replace my Binks HVLP with a small Graco Fine Finish cordless for the last 3-4 years. Just noticed they've changed the names of the guns again, this must be the 4th or 5th iteration.  [unsure]  Started with Fine Finish...then TrueCoat...then Ultimate...and now TC Pro.

https://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ced/literature/brochures/344185/344185EN-B.pdf

@Cheese I know Home Depot has had their own naming scheme as well but it was otherwise identical. Perhaps Graco has been in talks with Apple. The New, New Graco TC Pro Plus Ultimate Fine Finish.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2021, 11:15 AM »
You adjust the Graco by switching tips.  Airless tips come in all different sizes and have a 3 digit # for example 315 the first # 3 is half the width of the fan at 12inches so a #3 tip is supposed to be 6 inches wide at 12 inches from the gun. the second pair of numbers "15" is the orifice size.  you very this based on the viscosity of the paint.  Thicker paint needs bigger orifice.  .015-.018 is generally suited for latex.  I have sprayed all kinds of Latex and have never found one that I couldnt spray with it.  Its an amazing little gun for latex IMO

Other than the swapping out tips which is very easy and tool less you just twist and pull.  There is a pressure dial on the gun to fine tune it further.  You always try to adjust the tip to what you are spraying and adjust the pressure down to minimize over spray.   

The gun works fantastic for small jobs like trim and doors. You just have to remember its not a full size rig and not meant to be.  Dont go trying to spray full walls or ceilings with it.  I do sometimes spray the ceiling to wall corners first with ceiling white, then roll out the ceiling.  It makes it fast and easy.  Then I just cut in the wall to the ceiling. 

As far as the naming goes yes its a little confusing but Im pretty sure Dynaglide is right all the different names is mostly depending on the retailer and most of the big retailers require exclusivity.  So they change the names slightly.  Dewalt does some similar things for Lowes/HD.  Im not sure who sells which and there are corded/cordless versions too.  This is the version I have.  They also make the pro plus for spraying thinner based paint but I spray that with a HVLP plus it requires a goofy grounding cord to be worn by the sprayer which kind of defeats the cordless aspect. So, really I dont see the need for the pro plus but some might. The TC pro will spray anything that you can clean with water or mineral spirits. If it needs Lacquer or acetone to clean then you cannot use the TC pro. 

The only thing I wish is they offered it in a bare tool not just a kit for those who already own a bunch of dewalt stuff, but I would buy it again either way.   
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 11:19 AM by afish »

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1448
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2021, 11:26 AM »
The only thing I wish is they offered it in a bare tool not just a kit for those who already own a bunch of dewalt stuff, but I would buy it again either way.   

Thanks @afish . If you go to HD's site, there is a tool only option:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Graco-TC-Pro-Cordless-Airless-Paint-Sprayer-Tool-Only-17P518/310211853

It's only $50 cheaper though.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2021, 12:09 PM »
There was a time when these Graco Fine Finish guns were only available from Graco & Sherwin Williams Pro stores. SW would run a pretty decent sale every 6 months or so along the lines of an extra spray cup and your choice of a couple extra spray nozzles, that was my first introduction.

Offline manuc

  • Posts: 68
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2021, 12:15 PM »
Have you looked at the 3M PPS? I have this and will never use anything else. Clean up is easy and you can spray in any orientation.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2021, 12:19 PM »
The only thing I wish is they offered it in a bare tool not just a kit for those who already own a bunch of dewalt stuff, but I would buy it again either way.   

Thanks @afish . If you go to HD's site, there is a tool only option:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Graco-TC-Pro-Cordless-Airless-Paint-Sprayer-Tool-Only-17P518/310211853

It's only $50 cheaper though.

OH, nice that option wasnt available when I bought it but its been probably 3+ years (Im bad with time) but yea, for 50 bucks I would get it with the batteries.  Mine came with two 2ah batteries.  Which I happen to like for size/weight issues.  The gun does have some weight with a full cup so I like the smaller batteries on it to keep the weight down as much as possible. They last a long time spraying too.  You will have filled the cup many times over before you need to swap batteries so its a non issue to me.   

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2021, 12:27 PM »
I use the 3m pps on my gravity feed gun but thats a different animal and not for spraying Latex paint.  Latex is just to thick to spray efficiently through a HVLP gun.  Once again, can you? Yes, and I have done it but it sucks compared to airless.  Actually the Graco uses a similar setup to the PPS with a disposable liner that can just be tossed. You still need to clean the gun.  I know 3m PPS gun you can dispose of the whole front part of the gun too. However its not designed for latex paint.  I tend to reuse the liners because Im thrifty like that, but its nice to have the option to just toss or clean them.

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 479
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2021, 09:19 AM »
Agree with all @afish had to say…these units are a game changer, so easy to just spray a door or window for instance….keeping it clean and using pump saver, goes a long way, all in a bag smaller than the size of a couple gallon cans.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 09:22 AM by Vondawg »
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline presidentsdad

  • Posts: 85
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2021, 01:34 PM »
I use the 3m pps on my gravity feed gun but thats a different animal and not for spraying Latex paint.  Latex is just to thick to spray efficiently through a HVLP gun.  Once again, can you? Yes, and I have done it but it sucks compared to airless.  Actually the Graco uses a similar setup to the PPS with a disposable liner that can just be tossed. You still need to clean the gun.  I know 3m PPS gun you can dispose of the whole front part of the gun too. However its not designed for latex paint.  I tend to reuse the liners because Im thrifty like that, but its nice to have the option to just toss or clean them.
Sorry for the noob question, but are the latex like finishes that are better sprayed out of HVLP.  Like not a stain or clear finish but something with some color like mineral paint, chalk paint, alkyd paint??
PresidentsDad - TS75; FS1900; FS1400 LR32; CT36; RO 150; DF700 XL; Seneca Small Mortise Kit; ETS EC 150/3; OF 1400; VAC SYS System Set, RO 90

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2021, 01:50 PM »
Not exactly sure what you are asking but the main issue is with viscosity.  Thick paint such as latex is hard to spray and anything water based doesnt typically like to be thinned.  Typically most mfr. dont recommend thinning more than 10%.  Airless uses a high pressure pump, not gravity or suction to move the paint more like a power washer.  It forces the paint out the small orifice which atomizes the paint there is no air used to atomize the paint.  Solvent based coating are more forgiving on being reduced or thinned making them easy to atomize.     

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6584
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2021, 02:06 PM »
My few cents…..

Get the T-75 gravity gun. Hopefully your bottom feed is a T-70, this will make the parts interchangeable.

Avoid the latex, find the color you want in an acrylic or urethane. Both will spray better through the Fuji. They are also much more durable products.

Remember the Ford 4 is your friend.

If you are certain you want to spray latex, the Graco Gx-19. The Gx-19 is an entry level airless designed to do finer finishes. I’d recommend the set ups I use but they would be cost prohibitive for this situation.

The cup airless guns mentioned above will work with latex, they do not have the finesse of the Gx-19.

Tom

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2021, 02:51 PM »
That gx-19 is a nice rig and would be good if you spray latex on a more regular basis.  It really kind of depends on what and how often you plan on using it.  I dont spray much latex but have the tc pro for when I do.  One thing is for sure airless is the way to go for latex, which set up you choose will depend on budget and the end users specific needs.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6584
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2021, 03:03 PM »
The few hundred dollars for the Gx-19 over a hand held makes it a no brained for me.

Having to replace the pump in a hand held every 50 gallons or so makes the investment closer over time.

Factor in he’s considering a 400 dollar gun already.

With the 19 you’ll find yourself spraying more things that you normal would have used the Fuji on due to time to apply finish.

Tom

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2021, 03:32 PM »
For spraying in a shop environment the gx-19 is a clear winner.  For spraying trim that is already installed and easily moving from room to room with no hoses or cords makes it more appealing to me in that situation.  The gun does get heavy after awhile since all the weight is on the gun. 

 

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 562
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2021, 12:20 PM »
Thank you for sharing your opinions.  Besides paint can this spray water based polyurethanes.  If so which brands of polyurethane  are good.

As usual one can hope for the proverbial unicorn that does all things.

You adjust the Graco by switching tips.  Airless tips come in all different sizes and have a 3 digit # for example 315 the first # 3 is half the width of the fan at 12inches so a #3 tip is supposed to be 6 inches wide at 12 inches from the gun. the second pair of numbers "15" is the orifice size.  you very this based on the viscosity of the paint.  Thicker paint needs bigger orifice.  .015-.018 is generally suited for latex.  I have sprayed all kinds of Latex and have never found one that I couldnt spray with it.  Its an amazing little gun for latex IMO

Other than the swapping out tips which is very easy and tool less you just twist and pull.  There is a pressure dial on the gun to fine tune it further.  You always try to adjust the tip to what you are spraying and adjust the pressure down to minimize over spray.   

The gun works fantastic for small jobs like trim and doors. You just have to remember its not a full size rig and not meant to be.  Dont go trying to spray full walls or ceilings with it.  I do sometimes spray the ceiling to wall corners first with ceiling white, then roll out the ceiling.  It makes it fast and easy.  Then I just cut in the wall to the ceiling. 

As far as the naming goes yes its a little confusing but Im pretty sure Dynaglide is right all the different names is mostly depending on the retailer and most of the big retailers require exclusivity.  So they change the names slightly.  Dewalt does some similar things for Lowes/HD.  Im not sure who sells which and there are corded/cordless versions too.  This is the version I have.  They also make the pro plus for spraying thinner based paint but I spray that with a HVLP plus it requires a goofy grounding cord to be worn by the sprayer which kind of defeats the cordless aspect. So, really I dont see the need for the pro plus but some might. The TC pro will spray anything that you can clean with water or mineral spirits. If it needs Lacquer or acetone to clean then you cannot use the TC pro. 

The only thing I wish is they offered it in a bare tool not just a kit for those who already own a bunch of dewalt stuff, but I would buy it again either way.   
Vijay Kumar

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2021, 03:47 PM »
It will spray just about anything that can be cleaned up with water or mineral spirits.  ANYTHING that needs thinner, acetone etc. cannot be sprayed without risking an explosion.  Otherwise both the handheld tc pro and gx-19 will handle it.  The Gx-19 might be able to spray thinner based paint but you would need to double check that.  I have never sprayed the water based poly with it but I did spray some Lenmar water based lacquer with the TC pro and it worked beyond my expectations.   

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1394
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2021, 04:32 PM »
I have both an airless (Graco Magnum X7) and a HVLP sprayer (stage 4), which I got for spraying cabinets.  The airless feels like a runaway freight train to me.  I will use it for painting an entire room, but not for cabinets. 

The HVLP seems better suited for that application (but sucks for painting a room--too many gun refills). 

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2021, 07:23 PM »
A HVLP is more refined for sure.  The airless will lay down a lot of paint fast.  It does have a dial to adjust the pressure and it should be dialed back as far as possible but still give a good pattern you can try and step down a size or two tip to help reduce the flow.   

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6584
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2021, 09:53 PM »
I have both an airless (Graco Magnum X7) and a HVLP sprayer (stage 4), which I got for spraying cabinets.  The airless feels like a runaway freight train to me.  I will use it for painting an entire room, but not for cabinets. 

The HVLP seems better suited for that application (but sucks for painting a room--too many gun refills).

Try the FFLP tips to solve the runaway train issue. They are designed for finish work. They work at lower pressures (about 50% decrease) yet can lay down a really nice finish.

All of the below were sprayed with air assisted airless. I choose dark colors (had to add one white one at the end...) with higher view angles. All the finishes are waterborne, either KA+ or Hydro Plus, cured at least 8 hours at ambient temps.

I'm currently training a young lady to be the finisher for the shop, if she's as good as the first young lady I trained about 5 years ago, she will be a great finisher.

I do have a Q4 and a Q5, even connected to a pressure pot they're to slow for the volume we spray. I do use them for spraying away from the shop.

Tom

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2021, 04:38 AM »
@tjbnwi those photos make me want to try more waterborne finishes.  Fantastic job, I love that plantation style wall unit in photo #5 Im a sucker for those wide coves instead of crown.  Nice job.  Is there a air assist rig that you recommend that wont require a kidney sale

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6584
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2021, 08:55 AM »
@tjbnwi those photos make me want to try more waterborne finishes.  Fantastic job, I love that plantation style wall unit in photo #5 Im a sucker for those wide coves instead of crown.  Nice job.  Is there a air assist rig that you recommend that wont require a kidney sale

If you have an airless sprayer and an air compressor with some volume you can turn the airless into a AAA. The magic is in the gun. Look around Ebay or other sources for a used AAA gun. A G40 or equivalent to start, this will handle up to 4000 PSI pump pressure. This will get you into a AAA set up the cheapest.

We run Graco Merkurs and FF 395 AAA PC's. The Merkur is limited by the gun to 1500 PSI, I purchased it used for a really good price. I also have a Graco Triton, it is similar to an HVLP connected to a pressure pot.

I've been shooting waterborne finishes for over 20 years, started using them due to high risks involed with solvent based finishes.

The thing you need to know with waterbonres is it takes awhile for the finish to tighten. Unlike solvents which look their best right off the gun, the waterbornes cn take up to 30 days to look their best.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6584
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2021, 09:09 AM »
A few more with the cove.

Tom

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2021, 09:30 AM »
My biggest issue with the WB is the dry times and being tight on space.  I also live in a very humid environment too. So, that doesnt help either.   

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2021, 09:38 AM »
Found this video for anyone else who is interested.  Have you used the wagner 4700 compared to the G40?  This gun seems to have a lot of love out there.


 

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6584
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2021, 09:55 AM »
My biggest issue with the WB is the dry times and being tight on space.  I also live in a very humid environment too. So, that doesnt help either.   

The dry to move time is not bad. A little air flow and you’re down to 5 minutes.
Pack in 8 hours.

I used to live in the Chicagoland area, I know what humid is like.

I have not used a Wagner gun.

Tom

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1394
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2021, 11:03 AM »
so I went ahead an purchased a gravity feed Fuji from Roger Phelps.  My bottom feed gun will be used for applying paint and the new one for lacquers, etc.  One can never have too many tools.  Even with a 1.3 tip, it sprays latex nicely as long as the paint is thinned a bit.



I used the Shaper Origin to inlay the lettering.  It was perfect for the job. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6584
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2021, 11:29 AM »
Looks great Howard.

Tom

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1394
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2021, 11:31 AM »
Thanks, Tom.  However, it looks like a 6 year old finger painting compared to your work.  Magnificent. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1394
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2021, 09:53 PM »
Looks great Howard.

Tom

I decided I didn't like the way the top turned out so I rebuilt it using a higher grade material. I plan on spraying it again but this time, should I add a little Floetrol to the paint so it will dry smoother and less prone to orange peel?
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2021, 10:35 PM »
Looks great Howard.

Tom

I decided I didn't like the way the top turned out so I rebuilt it using a higher grade material. I plan on spraying it again but this time, should I add a little Floetrol to the paint so it will dry smoother and less prone to orange peel?

If you shot a true latex two things;

It will take awhile for the finsih to coalese and things may stick to it. The orange peel should go away as it coleeses.

You can thin it a touch more and add Floetrol. Both will slow down the curing process.

I highly recommend in the future an acrylic or a urethane.

Tom


Offline HowardH

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2021, 10:37 PM »
I would but I'm already way too far down that road on this project!   ;D. Thanks for the tips!
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2021, 10:54 PM »
My biggest issue with the WB is the dry times and being tight on space.  I also live in a very humid environment too. So, that doesnt help either.   

These are the drying racks we use.

The black ones (Door RackPainter) allow you to shoot 2 sides the set aside to dry.

The wood ones we made for larger panels.

They may help with your tight space.

Last pics is how we rack and spray large doors. The rotators are an adaptation from my automotive restoration days.

Tom

Offline afish

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2021, 01:22 PM »
Those are some cool racks.  I was always hesitant on the double sided door one it seems like it would still leave marks.  Its kind of funny I use similar type to the others you pictured.  I have some 2x4's drilled to accept 1/2" emt.  Mine arnt as fancy, I clamp mine to some existing storage shelving when needed.  Then store them away when not in use.  I like how yours has the adjustable width.

 The door rotator is nice too I actually made one similar out of wood that I was considering trying to sell but then RB went to 200 a sheet and figured that would have killed a lot of the sales. So I put it on the back burner.  Mine was more portable so it can be taken to a jobsite if needed. All the components could be stored or transported in a Plastic tote. 

The rack (pictured) is probably my next purchase but even it is pushing my storage limits.  Have you used one like this? any input?  It seems to hold the most doors in the least space.

Oh, and as far as humidity Chicago aint got nothin compared to South Florida.  Some days you need a squeegee.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 01:25 PM by afish »

Offline HowardH

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2021, 03:51 PM »
My biggest issue with the WB is the dry times and being tight on space.  I also live in a very humid environment too. So, that doesnt help either.   

These are the drying racks we use.

The black ones (Door RackPainter) allow you to shoot 2 sides the set aside to dry.

The wood ones we made for larger panels.

They may help with your tight space.

Last pics is how we rack and spray large doors. The rotators are an adaptation from my automotive restoration days.

Tom

I built another toy box and purchased Sherwin-Williams Emerald water-based urethane paint.  The SW guys said I don't need to thin it with water first but I'm not sure my Fuji 4 stage can handle unthinned paint.  Should I add a little bit of water first?
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2021, 04:35 PM »
Assuming gloss or semi-gloss, 1.4 tip, 25ish seconds using a Ford 4 or Zahn 2 (the Ford 4 should have come with your Fuji). 

Temperature will also play a role in how thin it is.

Tom

Offline HowardH

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2021, 03:25 PM »
Holy cow!  I did a few test runs with the Ford 4 and even after adding water, it still runs about double the time.  Do I really need to thin it that much?  It seems it would almost have to be 25% water.  I don't want to ruin the paint. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2021, 04:26 PM »
Holy cow!  I did a few test runs with the Ford 4 and even after adding water, it still runs about double the time.  Do I really need to thin it that much?  It seems it would almost have to be 25% water.  I don't want to ruin the paint.

Other option is to heat the paint. I had to do 18 percent on SW proclassic to get it down to 45s through the Ford cup.
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Offline gunnyr

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2021, 08:54 PM »
Holy cow!  I did a few test runs with the Ford 4 and even after adding water, it still runs about double the time.  Do I really need to thin it that much?  It seems it would almost have to be 25% water.  I don't want to ruin the paint.
I shoot Emerald with a 1.3 at about 30 seconds on the Ford Cup that came with my Fuji.  Thin it as much as it takes to get it to the viscosity you need, then you can add what ever flavor of retarder you want (Flotrol, etc).  Until I learned to trust the Ford Cup I was not able to get a decent finish.  I spoke with some Fuji folks at IWS a couple of years ago who confirmed the approach.  What I'm told is that the manufactures will publish limits on thinning due to VOC requirements. 
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|ETSC 125|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|OF 1010|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|STL 450|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
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Offline HowardH

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2021, 09:02 PM »
Holy cow!  I did a few test runs with the Ford 4 and even after adding water, it still runs about double the time.  Do I really need to thin it that much?  It seems it would almost have to be 25% water.  I don't want to ruin the paint.
I shoot Emerald with a 1.3 at about 30 seconds on the Ford Cup that came with my Fuji.  Thin it as much as it takes to get it to the viscosity you need, then you can add what ever flavor of retarder you want (Flotrol, etc).  Until I learned to trust the Ford Cup I was not able to get a decent finish.  I spoke with some Fuji folks at IWS a couple of years ago who confirmed the approach.  What I'm told is that the manufactures will publish limits on thinning due to VOC requirements.

That's a bunch of water to get it down to 30 sec. I'll try it on sample piece of wood.  Thanks for the heads up!
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline HowardH

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Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2021, 10:41 PM »
Thanks for the heads up about using Urethane paint.  I'm much, much happier with the results.  I'll never go back to using latex again

« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 10:57 PM by HowardH »
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline krudawg

  • Posts: 155
Re: HVLP guns
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2022, 10:22 AM »
I have a 4 stage Fuji turbine system with the standard bottom feed cup. I'd like to get a gravity feed sprayer to go with it but all I see at the big box stores are HVLP guns that appear to need to use a regular compressor verses a turbine for air delivery.  I'll suck it up and spend $400 if I need to get a Fuji gun but what other alternatives are there?  I want to spray latex enamel for a toy chest I'm finishing up this weekend.
Take a look at the Aerojet RS1.  It's inexpensive ($160) and I am very happy with the results.  I use the Aerojet to spray oil based stain only with my MiniMite4 HVLP Fuji system
Ted
MFT/3, DF 500, Hammer K3 Winner, TS55,  Sjoberg Elite 1500 Workbench, Fuji MiniMite4 Platinum, OF1400, CT MIdi, CT26, RO90, ETC-150, CT26, Midi,
Former Marine, Vietnam Vet