Author Topic: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.  (Read 35444 times)

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Offline RickyL

  • Posts: 68
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2017, 07:16 AM »
I have 3 1400 rails and an 800.

I leave 2 of the 1400's joined the whole time. But to align them, simple put another rail upside down and hold it firmly with your hand at the joint. I can be within a 0.5mm pencil line across the 2800mm and it only takes a few seconds.

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Offline SS Teach

  • Posts: 286
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2017, 03:16 PM »
I have two 1400 rails and one 800. I use a Betterly Straight Line Connector and Makita connectors. They work great, straight and solid.
RTS 400, LS 130, Sandpaper Systainer, Profile Systainer. ETS 125, Sandpaper Systainer, Ro 90, Sandpaper Systainer,  Ro 150, Sandpaper Systainer, OF 1400, TS 55 REQ, CT36, CXS Li 1.5 Set, Centrotec Wood-Drill-Set/8pcs, CT Wings, Surfix Set. Domino 500, Domino Systainer, Parallel Guide

Offline ben_r_

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 04:36 PM »
I have two 1400 rails and one 800. I use a Betterly Straight Line Connector and Makita connectors. They work great, straight and solid.
Same here. Though I am still considering selling the Betterley and second 55" rail to put the money towards the 106" or 118" rail.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline rst

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 06:36 PM »
I used  self made 60" 8020 extrusion jig and Makita joiners for years to join rails...finally bought the 118"/3000mm... never looked back...so much time wasted fiddling.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2018, 02:23 PM »
I am/was (?) a hobbyist and have a small SUV with bike racks on top.  I have the Festool rails, connectors, special screws, and Betterly connector.  The longest rail I can get into my car is the 1900 (75").  That's my favorite rail for many things, especially breaking down sheet goods.

I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  The supplier is a long way from home.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.

I could bring shorter rails and all the connection gizmos with me and live with the inconveniences, or I could strap it to the bike racks.  I don't keep the straps in my car, and even if I did, I'm concerned that a gusting cross-wind on the highway would bend the rail.
If I bring shorter rails and forget any essential connection-related accessories, sheet break down and rail transport becomes much more difficult. 

Additionally, I treat the splinter guard gingerly on the rail connection flips, AND they often come unglued regardless.  I know my cuts are straight, but I don't count on the accuracy of the cut line.  These little annoyances and non-value added steps accumulate over time to lessen my enjoyment of the tools.  It's "death by 1000 cuts".

I'm considering buying the Mafell saw, rails, connectors and bag just to make this task less of a hassle.  I want to go, get my stuff, and get home and get to work.  What a fussy hothouse flower I am.

Online Gregor

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 02:34 PM »
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail ontop of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

Offline Kodi Crescent

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2018, 08:43 PM »
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail on top of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

I don't have a van, I have a small passenger vehicle.  I have to fold the seats up to accommodate the materials.

The rail length is such that I need to lay it on edge between the passenger seat and the center driver console.  No concerns getting there with an empty load.  The rail stays put on the way there.

I load by laying the pieces horizontally.  I don't have any tie downs for vertical transport.

The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that.  If I fit the rail the same way on the way home, the sliding pieces would destroy the rail almost immediately.  I lay the rail flat on the pieces, but since it protrudes into the driver's area, it moves back and forth in the cockpit area, and is quite unnerving and distracting during the drive.

I could ratchet strap the cut pieces together and place the rail(s) on top.  One more thing I have to remember to take with me.

Online DynaGlide

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2018, 10:27 PM »
Sounds like you have my Subaru.
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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2018, 11:26 PM »
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail on top of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

I don't have a van, I have a small passenger vehicle.  I have to fold the seats up to accommodate the materials.

The rail length is such that I need to lay it on edge between the passenger seat and the center driver console.  No concerns getting there with an empty load.  The rail stays put on the way there.

I load by laying the pieces horizontally.  I don't have any tie downs for vertical transport.

The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that.  If I fit the rail the same way on the way home, the sliding pieces would destroy the rail almost immediately.  I lay the rail flat on the pieces, but since it protrudes into the driver's area, it moves back and forth in the cockpit area, and is quite unnerving and distracting during the drive.

I could ratchet strap the cut pieces together and place the rail(s) on top.  One more thing I have to remember to take with me.

How about clamp the rail to the sheets?

Seth

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4254
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2018, 12:36 AM »
Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

Online Gregor

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2018, 10:19 AM »
The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that.
You should really do something against the moving around, for security - take care of rail too.

We all don't plan to crashing our vehicle, but should prepare - having stuff fly around worst case is a bad idea...

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2018, 09:24 AM »
Sounds like you have my Subaru.

I've got an older RAV4.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2018, 10:19 AM »
Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

If I was going to go through all that trouble I'd just remove the bike racks from the top of my car and ratchet strap the plywood pieces to the rack on top.

While I do enjoy using my Festools, I do get tired of all these little non-value added steps, shortcomings, or "mods" I have to deal with to mitigate the shortcomings.  I just want to buy the tool, do what I need to do, and move on.  It's kind of like doing actual work on Macs vs. Windows software.  Windows software is designed to just get the work done.  But no one will sing its praises.  Apple stuff requires lots of little extra steps to get work done and it often falls short.  People sing its praises regardless.

I'm puzzled as to why certain decisions are made with many of the products and accessories.  Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx?  Why a 1080 rail instead of 1200?  I could start a smooth plunge on a full-width piece on the MFT, accommodate the cord deflector, and have enough left on the back to clamp the rail up so it didn't fall and hit me in the head later in the day.  Why a 1400 rail instead of 1500 or even 1600?  The 1400 length seems just a bit short for crosscutting plywood.  Certainly too short for 5x5 BB sheets. 

I'm curious what variables are being optimized that drive these design decisions.  Otherwise, these little compromises here and there add up to "death by 1000 cuts".

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 845
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2018, 10:31 AM »
Additionally, I treat the splinter guard gingerly on the rail connection flips, AND they often come unglued regardless.  I know my cuts are straight, but I don't count on the accuracy of the cut line.  These little annoyances and non-value added steps accumulate over time to lessen my enjoyment of the tools.  It's "death by 1000 cuts".

I'm considering buying the Mafell saw, rails, connectors and bag just to make this task less of a hassle.  I want to go, get my stuff, and get home and get to work.  What a fussy hothouse flower I am.
Mafell rails are definitely better designed in terms of connectors and the splinter guard. I sold both of my Festool saws and replaced them with Mafell saws (MT55cc and MF26cc)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4254
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2018, 10:54 AM »
Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

If I was going to go through all that trouble I'd just remove the bike racks from the top of my car and ratchet strap the plywood pieces to the rack on top.

While I do enjoy using my Festools, I do get tired of all these little non-value added steps, shortcomings, or "mods" I have to deal with to mitigate the shortcomings. I just want to buy the tool, do what I need to do, and move on. It's kind of like doing actual work on Macs vs. Windows software.  Windows software is designed to just get the work done.  But no one will sing its praises.  Apple stuff requires lots of little extra steps to get work done and it often falls short.  People sing its praises regardless.

I'm puzzled as to why certain decisions are made with many of the products and accessories.  Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx?  Why a 1080 rail instead of 1200?  I could start a smooth plunge on a full-width piece on the MFT, accommodate the cord deflector, and have enough left on the back to clamp the rail up so it didn't fall and hit me in the head later in the day.  Why a 1400 rail instead of 1500 or even 1600?  The 1400 length seems just a bit short for crosscutting plywood.  Certainly too short for 5x5 BB sheets. 

I'm curious what variables are being optimized that drive these design decisions.  Otherwise, these little compromises here and there add up to "death by 1000 cuts".

Just get your materials delivered from a real lumber yard and you won’t have to worry about transporting pieces.

Why do you select “start” on a pc when you want to shutdown?

Offline Cheese

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2018, 11:43 AM »
Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx? 

I think it was their way of not dimpling the rails as easily. Theoretically, a small undersized flat blade screwdriver will cam-out before damage is done. Unfortunately, the theoretical doesn't work well here when you actually use the correct sized screwdriver and maintain firm downward pressure on the screwdriver.  [crying]


Offline TSO Products

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2019, 11:29 AM »
Guide Rail Connectors - keep an eye on TSO. We are working to refine our GRC-12 design and see if we can make it even easier to get great alignment results. Updates via our TSO INSIDER newsletter subscription at https://tsoproducts.com

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline JimH2

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2019, 11:49 AM »
@Paul G  - my rails definitely have square ends but,  I have always left a very slight gap between them when connecting two together. 

It was suggested to do this for better alignment back in the Festo days, and I think that tidbit may have even found it's way into a supplemental manual or official training video too.  I know I've seen or read it somewhere in the last 5 years.

There's always a compromise, the single long rail's is price and greater possibility that it's not entirely straight along the entire 3000mm.  Or that it get bent.  So it boils down to what trade offs you're willing to live with for your specific needs.  I'm guessing FT would prefer you simply purchase both the long rail and several short ones + connectors so that all your bases are covered.

1st pic is of a 1080 rail that is 12-14 years old and has lot of battle wounds.

2nd pic is a 1400 holey rail that is 2 months old   - both square as referenced with a Starrett no.4

@Svar - the only incompatibility issue that would arise with adopting your mafell like connector would be that it would interfere with the LR32 system in the middle of a holey rail connected setup.  It could be worked around fairly easily but it'd be one of those idiosyncrasies I mentioned earlier.  ;)

The LR 32 system is enough of kluge that I would not even be concerned about losing the capability.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 06:21 PM by JimH2 »

Offline TSO Products

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2019, 11:11 AM »
GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector - NEXT GENERATION - is shipping now at https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/

TSO INSIDER has been mailed to arrive worldwide over this weekend
Take at look and see for yourself.

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Online Bob D.

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2019, 12:00 PM »
GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector - NEXT GENERATION - is shipping now at https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/

TSO INSIDER has been mailed to arrive worldwide over this weekend
Take at look and see for yourself.

Hans and Eric


I like that. I think I need a couple sets of those. :-)
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Offline Roachmill

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2019, 02:18 PM »
^Ordered 2 pairs yesterday :D

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 156
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2019, 07:07 AM »
GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector - NEXT GENERATION - is shipping now at https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/

TSO INSIDER has been mailed to arrive worldwide over this weekend
Take at look and see for yourself.

Hans and Eric
Just a nudge to query if they are indeed shipping. Ordered to pairs last Friday when they became listed as available and heard nothing about any dispatch. No response from your Zendesk help desk so far either  :'(

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 845
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2019, 10:21 AM »
While not an original idea it is a good solution to a problem that should not exist nor require other tools to supplement it. I have seen one similar to this in the wild. The person who had one said he had gotten the idea from someone else. Anyway the homemade one was not remotely as nice as yours, so A+ on your design and execution. Should sell well.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1921
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2019, 11:23 AM »
@LooseSox

I guess I've never understood why there are so many complaints about aligning the Festool rails. I've never had a problem. It is true that I don't join rails all that much but have done it for longer cuts because I don't want to store long rails in my shop due to a spot to hang them. Therefore, whenever I need a rail longer than I have I join them. It takes a couple of minutes to get them right and I don't find it troublesome or inaccurate or imprecise or . . . I appreciate that those who join rails everyday of their lives may find it more difficult than other methods but, I guess, if I needed a long rail that much, I would find a way to store one and buy it.

I usually just put the TS55 in place over the joint of the two rails and get them aligned that way. I have also used a straight edge to keep them straight while tightening down the set screws. Either way works for me without any problems.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 11:26 AM by grbmds »
Randy

Offline TSO Products

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2019, 02:52 PM »
the GRC-12 thread is on its own Subject line:

Sales & Dealer Area / Re: Latest TSO Product

of course, it was "Latest" when the thread was launched by Cheese but we have not stopped launching new products as you see elsewhere. I asked the Moderators if they can insert GRC-12 in that original thread.

The latest generation of the GRC-12 Connector (REV C)
began shipping from TSO April 29, 2019. A refined connector-body profile is accompanied by the most noticeable change – custom set screws -reflecting customer suggestions since the release of the original configuration. Picture is posted under the original FOG Thread
Sales & Dealer Area / Re: Latest TSO Product

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Bob Wolfe

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2019, 10:42 PM »
I have joined rails hundreds of times. Stand them perpendicular on the sheet, tighten screws.  Done. Not had issues.
I have a dedicated flat blade screwdriver in the saw box.
BW

Online Bob D.

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2019, 05:45 AM »
The new TSO guide rail connectors have two features that sold me on them.

1. The keystone shape of the connector makes it self-centering/aligning which simplifies connecting sections of rail.
2. The unique screws that prevent rail divots because of the wide, flat surface which contacts the rail.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?