Author Topic: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do. (Read 44923 times)

Svar · « **on:** February 17, 2017, 03:53 PM »

Connection strength and self-alignment of guide rails is a well known feature of Mafell/Bosch rail system. Something that Festool needs to improve upon. Overall thickness of the rails is similar ~ 5 mm.
There is no reason Festool can't do the same while preserving backward compatibility. Here is how:

New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.

live4ever · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2017, 04:01 PM »

Makes sense, but Mafell/Bosch may have a patent for that type of guide rail connection.

LooseSox · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2017, 04:25 PM »

So being new to the FOG and festool in general and having recently bought a ts55 and now looking to buy another guide rail, are you telling me that with what is pretty much the most expensive rails on the market, I'm going to have to jiggle them around to get them to line up when joining them together?

Svar · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2017, 04:31 PM »

Quote from: LooseSox on February 17, 2017, 04:25 PM

So being new to the FOG and festool in general and having recently bought a ts55 and now looking to buy another guide rail, are you telling me that with what is pretty much the most expensive rails on the market, I'm going to have to jiggle them around to get them to line up when joining them together?

Yes. It's not too bad, though. Search this forum, there was plenty of topics on this.
Among others:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/homemade-guide-rail-connectors-(not-your-typical-ones)/msg222492/#msg222492

antss · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2017, 04:53 PM »

@LooseSox -

depends on what you consider jiggling.

I've been using festool rails near on twenty years now and I haven't once needed an alignment guide, nor do I spend lots of time futzing about with them. My bread and butter and why I went to a track saw in the first place is fitting panels to very expensive imported kitchens. Mostly veneer and lacquer.

Now, my sentiment/experience is in the minority round here , very accurate cuts can be achieved with joined rails and with out xtras and my process takes less that two minutes at the start of the operation including removing the rails from their case.

I'm not arguing that a 3000mm / 8' rail doesn't have its place; but when portability and expense are factored in you may find a little jiggling isn't so bad like Svar says.

@Svar - nice drawing. They might as well incorporate the superior splinter strip too, while they're at it.

LooseSox · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2017, 05:33 PM »

@antss

Not that I've done it yet as I'm still yet to buy a second rail, but with how good everything else festool is that I've used and the cost of the rails, I'd expect to drop in the joiners and have two rails joined together in perfect alignment without doing anything else. I could never understand (looking at the prices) why any sane person would pay near double the cost for a single large rail vs two smaller ones joined together but if its a pain to do then that would explain it I guess.

antss · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2017, 06:33 PM »

Sox, welcome to the club.

Hate to be a crumudgeon , but you'd better get used to some shortcomings with this line. They are like everyone else in that regard though. Overall it's a solid lineup, but there are idiosyncrasies , annoyances , and sometimes stinkers with the offerings. Comes with the territory.

When the rails first appeared they connected with only one bar and that led to twisting of the assembly - shoulda been around for those days. Then an improvement was made to have two spines and connectors which eliminated that issue. There was still no other system available at the time to compare with . But, when they changed designs they didn't bother alter their hose/cord guide and still have t to this day. It's not as wide as the rail anymore and cords can get caught in the slot that's exposed.

FT keeps their head in the sand about it and the fanboys will come round and tell you all kinds of solutions to alieviate the issue that shouldn't exist in the first place.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's a solid saw and track but still has some issues.

DB10 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2017, 06:35 PM »

Quote from: LooseSox on February 17, 2017, 05:33 PM

@antss

Not that I've done it yet as I'm still yet to buy a second rail, but with how good everything else festool is that I've used and the cost of the rails, I'd expect to drop in the joiners and have two rails joined together in perfect alignment without doing anything else. I could never understand (looking at the prices) why any sane person would pay near double the cost for a single large rail vs two smaller ones joined together but if its a pain to do then that would explain it I guess.

@LooseSox I got by with two 1400 rails connected together for quite a while, connecting two rails together isn't too bad, moving the connected rails on your own can be a pain though, if its speed your looking for you can't beat one long rail.
I was lucky as I happened to come across a second hand 2.7 rail on Gum Tree for a fraction of the new price. Guide rails are the only second hand thing I've bought from Festool, most jokers want almost new prices for beat up Festool junk on Gum Tree but with the guide rails I was lucky, Keep an eye on Gum tree and you may get lucky to.

Holmz · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2017, 06:46 PM »

Quote from: DB10 on February 17, 2017, 06:35 PM

...
Guide rails are the only second hand thing I've bought from Festool, most jokers want almost new prices for beat up Festool junk on Gum Tree but with the guide rails I was lucky, Keep an eye on Gum tree and you may get lucky to.

"Clowns to the left me and jokers to the right"

McNally Family · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2017, 07:06 PM »

Quote from: LooseSox on February 17, 2017, 04:25 PM

So being new to the FOG and festool in general and having recently bought a ts55 and now looking to buy another guide rail, are you telling me that with what is pretty much the most expensive rails on the market, I'm going to have to jiggle them around to get them to line up when joining them together?

@LooseSox

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/long-guide-rails-worth-it/msg497366/#msg497366

Holmz · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2017, 07:19 PM »

There are 2-rail systems (Festool/Makita and the newer Bosch/Mafell), and the Bosch ones are easier to attach... but the green saw doesn't work in it!
Search Bosch/Mafell and you can work through it all.

Paul G · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2017, 08:10 PM »

@Svar great thinking. If they do it I hope they send you a fat check.

@LooseSox IMO the connectors are the Achilles Heel of the rail system. To make matters worse you can't assume the rail ends are square. If they were then we could butt them together and be good but that would make too much sense so you end up with a tiny gap between rails that makes the whole thing more prone to slip. But don't over tighten those screws so you don't dimple the rails...seriously lacking.

Jaybolishes · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2017, 08:25 PM »

Funny you mentioned the dimpled rails. I had two 1400 rails at the site last week and again forgot to grab my 3000 rail. I had to join two rails and I tried carefully not to dimple the dang rails. I tightened them not even as tight as I thought would be satisfactory, flipped them over and major dimples. I never want to join rails again but it will surely need to be done at some point.. I think I may try to grind the ends so when tight they make a straight rail. I swear festool makes them unsquare on purposes. I mean what gives here, it wouldn't be asking too much to make the ends square.

antss · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2017, 08:26 PM »

@Paul G - my rails definitely have square ends but, I have always left a very slight gap between them when connecting two together.

It was suggested to do this for better alignment back in the Festo days, and I think that tidbit may have even found it's way into a supplemental manual or official training video too. I know I've seen or read it somewhere in the last 5 years.

There's always a compromise, the single long rail's is price and greater possibility that it's not entirely straight along the entire 3000mm. Or that it get bent. So it boils down to what trade offs you're willing to live with for your specific needs. I'm guessing FT would prefer you simply purchase both the long rail and several short ones + connectors so that all your bases are covered.

1st pic is of a 1080 rail that is 12-14 years old and has lot of battle wounds.

2nd pic is a 1400 holey rail that is 2 months old - both square as referenced with a Starrett no.4

@Svar - the only incompatibility issue that would arise with adopting your mafell like connector would be that it would interfere with the LR32 system in the middle of a holey rail connected setup. It could be worked around fairly easily but it'd be one of those idiosyncrasies I mentioned earlier.

pettyconstruction · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2017, 09:20 PM »

I have had to join rails,and have found it to be easy.
My only criticism /complaint is the slotted screws on the connector , i changed the out to t-15 ( I think that's the size). Oh and I don't care if it dimples the rail, it's a tool after all, not a museum piece. Ymmv.
Btw that Mafell connector is pretty nice tho.
Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

JD2720 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2017, 09:46 PM »

After making this simple jig, joining & aligning guide rails is very easy.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2017, 10:23 PM »

Quote from: antss on February 17, 2017, 06:33 PM

FT keeps their head in the sand about it and the fanboys will come round and tell you all kinds of solutions to alieviate the issue that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Regardless of a problem existing with the rails the owners of them come to this forum for information , advice, and help.

Are you saying it is a bad thing for members of the forum to take the time , make the effort, and help people improve and maximize the use of their tools? To me the use of the term "fanboys" suggests that meaning.

Seth

SRSemenza · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2017, 10:25 PM »

@Svar Nice idea!

@JD2720 Cool jig!

Seth

SRSemenza · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2017, 10:32 PM »

Quote from: pettyconstruction on February 17, 2017, 09:20 PM

I have had to join rails,and have found it to be easy.
My only criticism /complaint is the slotted screws on the connector , i changed the out to t-15 ( I think that's the size). Oh and I don't care if it dimples the rail, it's a tool after all, not a museum piece. Ymmv.
Btw that Mafell connector is pretty nice tho.
Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I agree it isn't like joining the rails is an insurmountable problem. There are some issues as is well documented on this forum.

@LooseSox When you factor the cost of the rails you need to factor the cost of the Mafell saw that works on the Mafell rails.

Plus don't fret too much about things that can get somewhat blown out of proportion and spend some time enjoying the use of your new tools.

Seth

Cheese · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2017, 11:27 PM »

Just purchase a Betterley connector, it's simple and quick.

http://www.festoolproducts.com/betterley-slc23-straightline-connector-for-festool-guide-rails.html?gclid=CNyFoOfmmNICFUe4wAod7g8O_g

deepcreek · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2017, 11:35 PM »

I'm a big fan of the Betterley guide rail connector. It's fast, easy, accurate, and in my humble opinion well worth the money.

I can't understand why anyone who is willing to make the significant investment in tools that Festool requires would balk at spending $100 on such a superbly machined and effective accessory.

For the record, I do not own a guide rail over 75 inches. I connect guide rails and I'm proud of it.

JimH2 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2017, 11:52 PM »

Purchasing a tool or building a jig to fix a design problem that should not exist makes it clear the original design is junk. Even if you get them perfectly aligned you still have the dimpling issue. Poor design all the way around. Instead of making radios, coolers, socket sets, rulers, sand paper (for hand sanding) and various other gadgets spend some time of a new rail connection system.

I have both Festool and Mafell saws, rails and connectors. The Mafell is a better saw with a better rail system and connector and it works on Festool rails if you have those. The upsides are the connector which stores on the rail, the anti-splinter guard design, and the cord deflectors that are included with each rail. The only downside to the Mafell rails is they are not as heavy duty as the Festool rails. That is not to say they are fragile, but just not as rigid as the Festool rails. I'd prefer a little more mass on the Mafell rails, but that is just me. My first tracksaw was a TS55 and I later purchased at TS75 for the extra cutting depth. After trying out an MT55 I sold the TS55 and kept the TS75 though I use the MT55 and it's rails almost exclusively. I'll also add that I purchased the 120" rail to avoid using connectors and have enough other sizes to never have to use the Festool connectors. I have parted with some of the Festool rails, but kept a few rails including the 120" for use with the TS75. If Mafell enters the market with a TS75 equivalent I'll sell of the TS75 of the rails.

Like others have mentioned the 120" rail is for the most part an in shop rail only. It is too big to carry around a job site where it could get banged up or bent.

DrD · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2017, 12:17 AM »

@JimH2

Dimpling can easily be dealt with by substituting nylon tipped set screws (can be obtained from McMaster Carr) for the factory screws. They also hold MUCH better than the factory screws. Nylon-tipped screws and the Betterley SCL23 and you're all set.

DrD

Travis Campbell · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2017, 01:02 AM »

Quote from: DrD on February 18, 2017, 12:17 AM

@JimH2

Dimpling can easily be dealt with by substituting nylon tipped set screws (can be obtained from McMaster Carr) for the factory screws. They also hold MUCH better than the factory screws. Nylon-tipped screws and the Betterley SCL23 and you're all set.

DrD

Specifically, these screws:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#93285A412

Bought some; haven't had a problem in 3 years (and they seem to clamp down on the rail much better compared to the originals that come with the connectors).

ScotF · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2017, 01:15 AM »

I have never had issues joining rails. Tedious if going back and forth, but transporting a longe rail can be a pain too. I like the long 3000 rail and a 1900 rail for most cuts.

kevinculle · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2017, 08:41 AM »

This is surprising, I have the Makita tracksaw with two 55" (1400mm) rails and it joins with good alignment. A buddy has the same setup and when I redid my deck two years ago I borrowed his two 55" rails and ganged four together to finish trim an 18' (5486mm) run of deckboards...worked like a charm and nice straight edge where it met the trim board.

JD2720 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2017, 03:08 PM »

I have had my Festool guide rails for about 10 years. I never had a problem joining rails in the shop where I have a workbench.

I did have issues joining the rails out on a job site where I only had saw horses & maybe a sheet of plywood to work from. I made the joining jig for that reason.

Holmz · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2017, 07:36 PM »

Quote from: ScotF on February 18, 2017, 01:15 AM

I have never had issues joining rails. Tedious if going back and forth, ...
...

^This^

We take the PITA~factor x # to get the total PITA.
My workflow has the # high because I alternate between rip and cross cut.
If one plans ahead there is less joining.

(Or if one knows that they cannot think ahead, then they get something like a long rail)

Job and Knock · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2017, 03:28 PM »

@Svar Nice idea!

I have a 10ft (3000mm) rail, plus two 1400s and the 3000 is far better to use, but a pain to carry around, so a solution which is beer tahn carrying another jig would be very welcome. I am mainly site based, though, where getting a flat cutting deck can sometimes be a problem

Bob D. · « **Reply #29 on:** February 26, 2017, 04:36 PM »

I don't have Festool but for my DeWalt track saw rails to ensure I put them together the same way each time I put a couple match marks on the underside of both rails. I made sure those two ends mated up squarely and then marked them. You could do the same by placing both rails butted together on your miter saw and make a single cut right down the mating line so you would cut them both at once and if there was any deviation from 90° than the angles would be complementary and cancel each other out. Match mark and you're good to go. You'll only lose a couple mm of each rail and never miss it. Any carbide miter saw blade should be able to cut the aluminum rails.

I have the same problem with dimpling if over-tightened. The DeWalt rails only have one T-track so any time you move a pair of rails that are joined you have to be careful and double check you alignment when setting up for a cut. It's not a good setup. Would be much better to have that one, wide bar for joining the tracks as the OP suggests, but two tracks with clamping bars would allow the rails to remain aligned. This is something it appears you can do with Festool rails since you have one track on the top and one on the underside. Not an option for the DeWalt rails.

RickyL · « **Reply #30 on:** March 14, 2017, 07:16 AM »

I have 3 1400 rails and an 800.

I leave 2 of the 1400's joined the whole time. But to align them, simple put another rail upside down and hold it firmly with your hand at the joint. I can be within a 0.5mm pencil line across the 2800mm and it only takes a few seconds.

SS Teach · « **Reply #31 on:** July 14, 2017, 03:16 PM »

I have two 1400 rails and one 800. I use a Betterly Straight Line Connector and Makita connectors. They work great, straight and solid.

ben_r_ · « **Reply #32 on:** May 07, 2018, 04:36 PM »

Quote from: SS Teach on July 14, 2017, 03:16 PM

I have two 1400 rails and one 800. I use a Betterly Straight Line Connector and Makita connectors. They work great, straight and solid.

Same here. Though I am still considering selling the Betterley and second 55" rail to put the money towards the 106" or 118" rail.

rst · « **Reply #33 on:** May 07, 2018, 06:36 PM »

I used self made 60" 8020 extrusion jig and Makita joiners for years to join rails...finally bought the 118"/3000mm... never looked back...so much time wasted fiddling.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #34 on:** October 12, 2018, 02:23 PM »

I am/was (?) a hobbyist and have a small SUV with bike racks on top. I have the Festool rails, connectors, special screws, and Betterly connector. The longest rail I can get into my car is the 1900 (75"). That's my favorite rail for many things, especially breaking down sheet goods.

I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector. The supplier is a long way from home. Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail. Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble. Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.

I could bring shorter rails and all the connection gizmos with me and live with the inconveniences, or I could strap it to the bike racks. I don't keep the straps in my car, and even if I did, I'm concerned that a gusting cross-wind on the highway would bend the rail.
If I bring shorter rails and forget any essential connection-related accessories, sheet break down and rail transport becomes much more difficult.

Additionally, I treat the splinter guard gingerly on the rail connection flips, AND they often come unglued regardless. I know my cuts are straight, but I don't count on the accuracy of the cut line. These little annoyances and non-value added steps accumulate over time to lessen my enjoyment of the tools. It's "death by 1000 cuts".

I'm considering buying the Mafell saw, rails, connectors and bag just to make this task less of a hassle. I want to go, get my stuff, and get home and get to work. What a fussy hothouse flower I am.

Gregor · « **Reply #35 on:** October 12, 2018, 02:34 PM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 12, 2018, 02:23 PM

I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector. Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail. Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble. Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.

How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail ontop of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #36 on:** October 12, 2018, 08:43 PM »

Quote from: Gregor on October 12, 2018, 02:34 PM

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 12, 2018, 02:23 PM
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector. Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail. Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble. Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail on top of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

I don't have a van, I have a small passenger vehicle. I have to fold the seats up to accommodate the materials.

The rail length is such that I need to lay it on edge between the passenger seat and the center driver console. No concerns getting there with an empty load. The rail stays put on the way there.

I load by laying the pieces horizontally. I don't have any tie downs for vertical transport.

The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that. If I fit the rail the same way on the way home, the sliding pieces would destroy the rail almost immediately. I lay the rail flat on the pieces, but since it protrudes into the driver's area, it moves back and forth in the cockpit area, and is quite unnerving and distracting during the drive.

I could ratchet strap the cut pieces together and place the rail(s) on top. One more thing I have to remember to take with me.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #37 on:** October 12, 2018, 10:27 PM »

Sounds like you have my Subaru.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #38 on:** October 12, 2018, 11:26 PM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 12, 2018, 08:43 PM

Quote from: Gregor on October 12, 2018, 02:34 PM
Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 12, 2018, 02:23 PM
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector. Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail. Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble. Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail on top of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

I don't have a van, I have a small passenger vehicle. I have to fold the seats up to accommodate the materials.

The rail length is such that I need to lay it on edge between the passenger seat and the center driver console. No concerns getting there with an empty load. The rail stays put on the way there.

I load by laying the pieces horizontally. I don't have any tie downs for vertical transport.

The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that. If I fit the rail the same way on the way home, the sliding pieces would destroy the rail almost immediately. I lay the rail flat on the pieces, but since it protrudes into the driver's area, it moves back and forth in the cockpit area, and is quite unnerving and distracting during the drive.

I could ratchet strap the cut pieces together and place the rail(s) on top. One more thing I have to remember to take with me.

How about clamp the rail to the sheets?

Seth

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #39 on:** October 13, 2018, 12:36 AM »

Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

Gregor · « **Reply #40 on:** October 13, 2018, 10:19 AM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 12, 2018, 08:43 PM

The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that.

You should really do something against the moving around, for security - take care of rail too.

We all don't plan to crashing our vehicle, but should prepare - having stuff fly around worst case is a bad idea...

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #41 on:** October 16, 2018, 09:24 AM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on October 12, 2018, 10:27 PM

Sounds like you have my Subaru.

I've got an older RAV4.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #42 on:** October 16, 2018, 10:19 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on October 13, 2018, 12:36 AM

Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

If I was going to go through all that trouble I'd just remove the bike racks from the top of my car and ratchet strap the plywood pieces to the rack on top.

While I do enjoy using my Festools, I do get tired of all these little non-value added steps, shortcomings, or "mods" I have to deal with to mitigate the shortcomings. I just want to buy the tool, do what I need to do, and move on. It's kind of like doing actual work on Macs vs. Windows software. Windows software is designed to just get the work done. But no one will sing its praises. Apple stuff requires lots of little extra steps to get work done and it often falls short. People sing its praises regardless.

I'm puzzled as to why certain decisions are made with many of the products and accessories. Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx? Why a 1080 rail instead of 1200? I could start a smooth plunge on a full-width piece on the MFT, accommodate the cord deflector, and have enough left on the back to clamp the rail up so it didn't fall and hit me in the head later in the day. Why a 1400 rail instead of 1500 or even 1600? The 1400 length seems just a bit short for crosscutting plywood. Certainly too short for 5x5 BB sheets.

I'm curious what variables are being optimized that drive these design decisions. Otherwise, these little compromises here and there add up to "death by 1000 cuts".

JimH2 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 16, 2018, 10:31 AM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 12, 2018, 02:23 PM

Additionally, I treat the splinter guard gingerly on the rail connection flips, AND they often come unglued regardless. I know my cuts are straight, but I don't count on the accuracy of the cut line. These little annoyances and non-value added steps accumulate over time to lessen my enjoyment of the tools. It's "death by 1000 cuts".

I'm considering buying the Mafell saw, rails, connectors and bag just to make this task less of a hassle. I want to go, get my stuff, and get home and get to work. What a fussy hothouse flower I am.

Mafell rails are definitely better designed in terms of connectors and the splinter guard. I sold both of my Festool saws and replaced them with Mafell saws (MT55cc and MF26cc)

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #44 on:** October 16, 2018, 10:54 AM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 16, 2018, 10:19 AM

Quote from: Michael Kellough on October 13, 2018, 12:36 AM
Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

If I was going to go through all that trouble I'd just remove the bike racks from the top of my car and ratchet strap the plywood pieces to the rack on top.

While I do enjoy using my Festools, I do get tired of all these little non-value added steps, shortcomings, or "mods" I have to deal with to mitigate the shortcomings. I just want to buy the tool, do what I need to do, and move on. It's kind of like doing actual work on Macs vs. Windows software. Windows software is designed to just get the work done. But no one will sing its praises. Apple stuff requires lots of little extra steps to get work done and it often falls short. People sing its praises regardless.

I'm puzzled as to why certain decisions are made with many of the products and accessories. Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx? Why a 1080 rail instead of 1200? I could start a smooth plunge on a full-width piece on the MFT, accommodate the cord deflector, and have enough left on the back to clamp the rail up so it didn't fall and hit me in the head later in the day. Why a 1400 rail instead of 1500 or even 1600? The 1400 length seems just a bit short for crosscutting plywood. Certainly too short for 5x5 BB sheets.

I'm curious what variables are being optimized that drive these design decisions. Otherwise, these little compromises here and there add up to "death by 1000 cuts".

Just get your materials delivered from a real lumber yard and you won’t have to worry about transporting pieces.

Why do you select “start” on a pc when you want to shutdown?

Cheese · « **Reply #45 on:** October 16, 2018, 11:43 AM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on October 16, 2018, 10:19 AM

Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx?

I think it was their way of not dimpling the rails as easily. Theoretically, a small undersized flat blade screwdriver will cam-out before damage is done. Unfortunately, the theoretical doesn't work well here when you actually use the correct sized screwdriver and maintain firm downward pressure on the screwdriver.

lerabotperche · « **Reply #46 on:** January 13, 2019, 11:07 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on February 17, 2017, 11:27 PM

Just purchase a Betterley connector, it's simple and quick.

http://www.festoolproducts.com/betterley-slc23-straightline-connector-for-festool-guide-rails.html?gclid=CNyFoOfmmNICFUe4wAod7g8O_g

They are not shipping in Europe.

TSO Products · « **Reply #47 on:** January 13, 2019, 11:29 AM »

Guide Rail Connectors - keep an eye on TSO. We are working to refine our GRC-12 design and see if we can make it even easier to get great alignment results. Updates via our TSO INSIDER newsletter subscription at https://tsoproducts.com

Hans

JimH2 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 13, 2019, 11:49 AM »

Quote from: antss on February 17, 2017, 08:26 PM

@Paul G - my rails definitely have square ends but, I have always left a very slight gap between them when connecting two together.

It was suggested to do this for better alignment back in the Festo days, and I think that tidbit may have even found it's way into a supplemental manual or official training video too. I know I've seen or read it somewhere in the last 5 years.

There's always a compromise, the single long rail's is price and greater possibility that it's not entirely straight along the entire 3000mm. Or that it get bent. So it boils down to what trade offs you're willing to live with for your specific needs. I'm guessing FT would prefer you simply purchase both the long rail and several short ones + connectors so that all your bases are covered.

1st pic is of a 1080 rail that is 12-14 years old and has lot of battle wounds.

2nd pic is a 1400 holey rail that is 2 months old - both square as referenced with a Starrett no.4

@Svar - the only incompatibility issue that would arise with adopting your mafell like connector would be that it would interfere with the LR32 system in the middle of a holey rail connected setup. It could be worked around fairly easily but it'd be one of those idiosyncrasies I mentioned earlier.

The LR 32 system is enough of kluge that I would not even be concerned about losing the capability.

TSO Products · « **Reply #49 on:** April 27, 2019, 11:11 AM »

GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector - NEXT GENERATION - is shipping now at https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/

TSO INSIDER has been mailed to arrive worldwide over this weekend
Take at look and see for yourself.

Hans and Eric

Bob D. · « **Reply #50 on:** April 27, 2019, 12:00 PM »

Quote from: TSO Products on April 27, 2019, 11:11 AM

GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector - NEXT GENERATION - is shipping now at https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/

TSO INSIDER has been mailed to arrive worldwide over this weekend
Take at look and see for yourself.

Hans and Eric

I like that. I think I need a couple sets of those. :-)

Roachmill · « **Reply #51 on:** April 27, 2019, 02:18 PM »

^Ordered 2 pairs yesterday

Roachmill · « **Reply #52 on:** May 02, 2019, 07:07 AM »

Quote from: TSO Products on April 27, 2019, 11:11 AM

GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector - NEXT GENERATION - is shipping now at https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/

TSO INSIDER has been mailed to arrive worldwide over this weekend
Take at look and see for yourself.

Hans and Eric

Just a nudge to query if they are indeed shipping. Ordered to pairs last Friday when they became listed as available and heard nothing about any dispatch. No response from your Zendesk help desk so far either

JimH2 · « **Reply #53 on:** May 02, 2019, 10:21 AM »

While not an original idea it is a good solution to a problem that should not exist nor require other tools to supplement it. I have seen one similar to this in the wild. The person who had one said he had gotten the idea from someone else. Anyway the homemade one was not remotely as nice as yours, so A+ on your design and execution. Should sell well.

grbmds · « **Reply #54 on:** May 02, 2019, 11:23 AM »

@LooseSox

I guess I've never understood why there are so many complaints about aligning the Festool rails. I've never had a problem. It is true that I don't join rails all that much but have done it for longer cuts because I don't want to store long rails in my shop due to a spot to hang them. Therefore, whenever I need a rail longer than I have I join them. It takes a couple of minutes to get them right and I don't find it troublesome or inaccurate or imprecise or . . . I appreciate that those who join rails everyday of their lives may find it more difficult than other methods but, I guess, if I needed a long rail that much, I would find a way to store one and buy it.

I usually just put the TS55 in place over the joint of the two rails and get them aligned that way. I have also used a straight edge to keep them straight while tightening down the set screws. Either way works for me without any problems.

TSO Products · « **Reply #55 on:** May 03, 2019, 02:52 PM »

the GRC-12 thread is on its own Subject line:

Sales & Dealer Area / Re: Latest TSO Product

of course, it was "Latest" when the thread was launched by Cheese but we have not stopped launching new products as you see elsewhere. I asked the Moderators if they can insert GRC-12 in that original thread.

The latest generation of the GRC-12 Connector (REV C)
began shipping from TSO April 29, 2019. A refined connector-body profile is accompanied by the most noticeable change – custom set screws -reflecting customer suggestions since the release of the original configuration. Picture is posted under the original FOG Thread
Sales & Dealer Area / Re: Latest TSO Product

Hans

Bob Wolfe · « **Reply #56 on:** May 03, 2019, 10:42 PM »

I have joined rails hundreds of times. Stand them perpendicular on the sheet, tighten screws. Done. Not had issues.
I have a dedicated flat blade screwdriver in the saw box.
BW

Bob D. · « **Reply #57 on:** May 04, 2019, 05:45 AM »

The new TSO guide rail connectors have two features that sold me on them.

1. The keystone shape of the connector makes it self-centering/aligning which simplifies connecting sections of rail.
2. The unique screws that prevent rail divots because of the wide, flat surface which contacts the rail.