Author Topic: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh  (Read 15622 times)

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Offline lloydh

  • Posts: 6
New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« on: June 26, 2021, 01:12 PM »
What are your thoughts on the timeframe for new full-size Festool dust extractors and what would you like to see?

It seems like the MIDI has stolen the march in terms of innovation and value so at the very least I’d like to see Bluetooth built in, a blower port, and possibly an externally accessible/replaceable filter.

As the range “flagships”, it would be good if the extraction performance could be improved to a level noticeably beyond the MIDI/MINI.

Controversial perhaps, but I think the line could be consolidated to two units since the MIDI/MINI now exist. Maybe something like a CT 30 and 45?

This one’s optimistic but it would be great to see powertool manufacturers adopt a common Bluetooth protocol for tools to switch dust extraction on/off — even just the German manufacturers would be a good start.

In terms of design, I really like the hose garage (and also the previous internal power cord storage too) but I do like the solid, flat tops of the Bosch extractors; a place to sit or rest things on. If this was possible or offered as a Systainer-compatible accessory I’d be interested.

I’ve heard lots of praise of the PLANEX hose’s flexibility. Maybe a new sheathed version with the standard connector could be introduced. And 36mm included with the bigger CTs.

Finally, how about a new Systainer-compatible power pass through feature. This could work with an updated Sys Power-Station meaning no power cable required. Conversely, powered accessories could be stacked onto the new CTs when they’re connected to mains power, e.g. a battery charging dock, or the Sys Power-Station could accept charge this way.

I’m sure there’s a lot more that could be added (improved CT Pre-Separator integration), but that’s a few ideas to start with.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 04:09 AM by lloydh »

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7785
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2021, 02:15 PM »
Controversial perhaps, but I think the line could be consolidated to two units since the midi/mini exist. Maybe a CT 30 and 45?

Yes, highly controversial indeed. Less is not good, less is never good. We want more, much more, so I propose a CT20, a 22, a 26 and a 27. 30 is fine with me, a 33 also, and because I don't like the number 36 it should be upgraded to a CT37. Who wouldn't want a liter extra storage anyway? Then top it off with a 40 and a 45, I can stand behind that number, 45. Above that, meh, 48 is just overkill.

It seems like the Midi has stolen the march in terms of innovation so at the very least I’d like to see Bluetooth built in, a blower port, and possibly an externally accessible/replaceable filter.

It hasn't stolen my heart, that's for sure. Suddenly it has this little computer on-board, that all the time, for no reason says: "Suck it up yourself". My old Mini just worked, all the time.

As the range “flagships”, it would be good if the extraction performance could be improved to a level noticeably beyond the midi/mini.

Now that's something I can agree with. While you're at it, upgrade suction on the Mini/Midi too.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1398
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2021, 04:03 PM »
The big CTs are just fine as the are.  The smaller vacs got downgraded with the membrane/integrated control deal.  The big units have BT and it's just fine as a plug in module.

I don't see them having a need to change them.

I think there would be a place to make a more full size sys-vac. Something that is basically a CT26 like unit, but fully in systainer format. Also a new cyclone that has a better bin design (just make it a systainer, no after thought suspenders).  Also maybe develop a systainer based retractable hose reel.

But as is, the big CTs are good exactly as they are.

Offline lloydh

  • Posts: 6
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2021, 06:57 PM »
The big CTs are just fine as the are.  The smaller vacs got downgraded with the membrane/integrated control deal.  The big units have BT and it's just fine as a plug in module.

If I was buying today it would still be one of the bigger CTs, but mainly for the power take-off rating.
Anecdotally I see a lot more MIDIs now and it wouldn't surprise me if the MIDI has canalised CT 26/36 sales; for most use cases it offers the same or better utility at a better price.
Instinctively I don't particularly like the membrane switch either, though I haven't used/owned a MIDI.

I do think the big CTs are due for some updates though. Having the option to add the bluetooth module bears testament to the original engineering but it's getting farcical needing to buy this expensive add-on when the cheaper model includes this. Personally I'd also like the option to install the auxiliary socket module while having bluetooth available.

Yes, highly controversial indeed. Less is not good, less is never good.

I understand that perspective and there are scenarios where I wish there was more choice (TS65 maybe? I jest [big grin]).
With the CTs, personally I think the line has become a bit confusing. "Which Festool dust extractor should I get" has to be the most common question, right? I've been there, and the Festool sales answers aren't very convincing in justifying the extra cost of the 26/36/48 in terms of extra capacity. Having more SKUs also adds manufacturing, distribution and retail costs, which get passed on — plus inventory problems.
I'm certainly not passionate about removing choice (or changing to any 'round number' capacities!), it's just my gut feeling that the same basic specs across the lineup despite very different prices doesn't seem like a situation Festool would have planned to be in.

As the range “flagships”, it would be good if the extraction performance could be improved to a level noticeably beyond the midi/mini.
Now that's something I can agree with. While you're at it, upgrade suction on the Mini/Midi too.

It would be amazing if Festool could make significant gains in terms of increased power / decreased size / reduced weight but I suspect current motor tech and physics aren't allowing much progress here — unless Festool have some Area 51 tech in their labs.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1398
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2021, 12:25 AM »
Remember, BlueTooth started with the bigger CTs, that's where they launched it, the MIDI/MINI updates came later with it.

Some folks may prefer not to be paying for it if they are just hooking the machines up to say a Kapex as a dedicated unit.

What has probably made the smaller units more popular in recent times is cyclones.  Those have made the CT36/48 almost redundant. I think a CT26 with Cyclone is shorter than a CT48. You see on the Festool Recon site, the CT48s are one of those items Festool can't find people to take them off their hands.

If they had kept the controls on the newer MIDI/MINI like that of the older units and the bigger units, I might pick one up as a general purpose vac, but as is, I'll pass.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7785
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2021, 01:11 AM »
it's just my gut feeling that the same basic specs across the lineup despite very different prices doesn't seem like a situation Festool would have planned to be in.

It is exactly the situation they have planned to be in. It was their choice to create all these different sizes, doesn't seem like an accident to me.

It would be amazing if Festool could make significant gains in terms of increased power / decreased size / reduced weight but I suspect current motor tech and physics aren't allowing much progress here — unless Festool have some Area 51 tech in their labs.

Another choice they've made, to use these turbines. Whenever I use a vac of a different brand I always notice how they are a lot stronger. Not area 51 tech, Festool just lags behind the competition.

Offline lloydh

  • Posts: 6
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2021, 04:56 AM »
It is exactly the situation they have planned to be in. It was their choice to create all these different sizes, doesn't seem like an accident to me.

I'm just saying that if Festool started with a clean sheet of paper I'm not convinced the lineup would look quite like it does. That's normal for all sorts of manufacturers with staggered product refresh cycles. Popular products tend to be updated more often than the halo/niche products so the value proposition across the line can get a little out of whack at times — manufacturers tend to prefer maintaining their price points even though the marginal cost of production drops significantly for mature products.

Some folks may prefer not to be paying for it if they are just hooking the machines up to say a Kapex as a dedicated unit.

What has probably made the smaller units more popular in recent times is cyclones.  Those have made the CT36/48 almost redundant. I think a CT26 with Cyclone is shorter than a CT48. You see on the Festool Recon site, the CT48s are one of those items Festool can't find people to take them off their hands.

The actual cost of the bluetooth hardware has to be minuscule today, but rolling out replacements for all the 26/36/48 model SKUs just with bluetooth built in would be costly and might disgruntle distributors/retailers. I don't know but they might even have to re-certify the machines in different markets. Unfortunately this is a tangible disadvantage of the range's size.

Has the 48 ever been popular for joinery/mainstream workshops? I've seen it configured for commercial finishing/autobody work but have no idea how big the market is. I don't have a cyclone pre-separator but it would suit my requirements so I'd be keen to see any improvements here.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7785
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2021, 07:42 AM »
I'm just saying that if Festool started with a clean sheet of paper I'm not convinced the lineup would look quite like it does. That's normal for all sorts of manufacturers with staggered product refresh cycles. Popular products tend to be updated more often than the halo/niche products so the value proposition across the line can get a little out of whack at times — manufacturers tend to prefer maintaining their price points even though the marginal cost of production drops significantly for mature products.

I don't know, I don't think I am talented enough to look in the heads of Festools' marketeers and designers.

I just look at the history of which vacs they sold, so I don't really understand the "staggering", because there have already been 2 generations of radically different vacs from Festool.

Once they had a very old generation of ASR vacs which they replaced for a line of vacs they licensed from Kraenzle. CTL11, 22, 33, 44, 55, all exactly the same except for bag size. Then they added the Mini and Midi vacs with a completely different form factor to give people more compact options. That new line proved quite popular and eventually they got rid of the Kraenzle line and Festool (or should I say TTS) made their own manufacturing line to produce all their vacs in-house, and introduced the CTL26 and 36. And later added the 48.

Seems to me a well tought out process of product development, and not a simple "the market dictates" situation.

And Festool is not like the bigger tool manufacturers who bring out a new line every 3 months. When they do bring someting new to the market, they have spent years perfecting the design and thinking about its target audience.


I don't have a cyclone pre-separator but it would suit my requirements so I'd be keen to see any improvements here.

Since you don't have one, what would you like to see improved here?

Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 194
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2021, 11:17 AM »
I find it pretty amusing that folks object to the membrane switch gear on the newer CT's. 


I've had older CT's (22 and 26) and first generation Midi, but now use a pair of second gen Midi's. 


There are no issues with the membrane switches.  It may be your personal preference, which is fine, but it puts a smile on my face every time I see someone say that's the reason they wouldn't choose a much more feature rich CT than the older generation. 


It's the same as folks who stuck with their Nokia 6310i because it had buttons, rather than move on with the times and choose a smartphone.  Dinosaur thinking, really.
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Offline notenoughcash

  • Posts: 244
  • too many ideas, not enough cash....
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2021, 11:40 AM »
hear hear. i used a ct 26 a bit back and thought it rather clunky after the membrane on the midi.  and if it is concernes about the strength of the membrande, then they are unfounded.
turns out that woodworking is 1% making things you'll use, 4% making bespoke high end firewood, 15% cleaning, and 80% looking for the blinking thing you just put down
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Offline lloydh

  • Posts: 6
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2021, 11:47 AM »
There are no issues with the membrane switches.  It may be your personal preference, which is fine, but it puts a smile on my face every time I see someone say that's the reason they wouldn't choose a much more feature rich CT than the older generation.

hear hear. i used a ct 26 a bit back and thought it rather clunky after the membrane on the midi.  and if it is concernes about the strength of the membrande, then they are unfounded.

Good to hear from people who actually use MIDIs. I think my irrational phobia stems from failed rubber-covered power switches on DeWalt sanders.

I mentioned earlier that it's only really the power take-off rating that would make me look to the bigger CTs at this point, and it's almost a 50% premium for this, plus the cost of the bluetooth module! But I see that people are successfully using the OF2200 with MIDIs so even that might not be an advantage in practice.

And Festool is not like the bigger tool manufacturers who bring out a new line every 3 months. When they do bring someting new to the market, they have spent years perfecting the design and thinking about its target audience.

I like Festool too! But their conservative approach and limited resources inevitably means some of the lineup languishes and falls behind competitors in terms of performance. I don't have a Festool drill, impact driver or angle grinder and wouldn't be tempted to switch. Performance has to be at least comparable with competitors for their "perfect design" and system approach to make me willing to pay the Festool premium.

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 358
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2021, 11:50 AM »
In terms of design, I really like the hose garage (and also the previous internal power cord storage too) but I do like the solid, flat tops of the Bosch extractors; a place to sit or rest things on. If this was possible or offered as a Systainer-compatible accessory I’d be interested.
I like the hose garage w/o the flat top.  When the hose is out, I tend to toss things like my hammer, a flat bar, or whatever other tools I happen to be using in there.  It's nice knowing that there is enough on the sides that they wouldn't just fall onto the floor if I drag it around a bit.

Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 194
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2021, 12:08 PM »
Good to hear from people who actually use MIDIs. I think my irrational phobia stems from failed rubber-covered power switches on DeWalt sanders.

I mentioned earlier that it's only really the power take-off rating that would make me look to the bigger CTs at this point, and it's almost a 50% premium for this, plus the cost of the bluetooth module! But I see that people are successfully using the OF2200 with MIDIs so even that might not be an advantage in practice.


OF2200 and a Midi combo is what justified picking up a second one in my case.  Absolutely no issues at all, at least in Europe. 




TKS 80 EBS-SET, KS 60 E-Set, TSC 55 REBI, TS 75, HKC 55,
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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7785
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2021, 12:29 PM »
I find it pretty amusing that folks object to the membrane switch gear on the newer CT's. 

but it puts a smile on my face every time I see someone say that's the reason they wouldn't choose a much more feature rich CT than the older generation. 

And I feel sad people can be as smug as you and think it is just perfectly ok to be like that.  [sad]

Newer isn't always better for everybody. I like the plain old simplicty where vacs are realiable an do what you say instead of having  a mind of their own.



Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 194
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2021, 01:02 PM »
And I feel sad people can be as smug as you and think it is just perfectly ok to be like that.  [sad]

Newer isn't always better for everybody. I like the plain old simplicty where vacs are realiable an do what you say instead of having  a mind of their own.


I don't think you really understand the meaning of the word 'smug', Alex.  Being open-minded, prepared to move with the times and take advantage of new technologies as they emerge and reach mainstream isn't something to be criticised.  New may be different, different is often better than old. 


But you know what, you do what you like and I'll do what I like, how's that?  It's not about either of us being right or wrong, but rather, it's about how we differ as folks and how we look at what's available to us to use if we want it. 


I like the evolution of these units.  That's a good thing, because I get to enjoy it.  It's even more of a good thing because it's the way things will proceed, so my comfort with this change is something that's likely to make it easier as things progress, rather than leave me lamenting for the old ways, the old controls, the old ideas of how things should be.


They'll be what the manufacturer determines to be the best option to address their market.  And here's the key point here:  These controls work perfectly, perfectly well.  I paid good money for a Midi I, then good money for another after that.  This was after paying good money time and again for previous generations of Festool CT.  I'm as well equipped from personal experience on both sides of the rotary knob vs membrane switch unit to determine whether or not there's some decline in quality or user experience. 


There isn't. 


As for the 'mind of its own' stuff?  That's just nonsense at the end of the day.  I've had a CT 26 decide to run at half speed.  I could change the rotary control for suction and it did nothing.  The repair cost the same, give or take a few euro, as it would have cost to replace the control assembly on a Midi I. 


So again, real world experience trumps fictional reasons to resist change. 


I'm happy to have the means to buy what I'd like.  I've created that good fortune for myself so I'll enjoy the ability to update a few of my tools here and there, as it suits my wants and needs.


Am I smug?  Not at all.  But I'll still feel quite comfortable with my sense of amusement when someone won't put their money where their mouth is, preferring to think their idea of best is actually best, especially so when it's someone opinionated enough to think their uninformed opinion should somehow never bring a smirk to someone elses face. 

TKS 80 EBS-SET, KS 60 E-Set, TSC 55 REBI, TS 75, HKC 55,
DF 500 & DF 700, OF2020, OF1010 REBQ, OF1010 EBQ, OFK 500,
T18+3, C18, PDC 18/4, TID 18,
RO 150, RO 90, RAS 115, RTS 400, ETS 125, ETS 150/5,
EHL 65, HL 850 EB,
CTL 26 E, CTL MIDI I, CTL-SYS, CT-VA-20
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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7785
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2021, 02:28 PM »
I don't think you really understand the meaning of the word 'smug', Alex.  Being open-minded, prepared to move with the times and take advantage of new technologies as they emerge and reach mainstream isn't something to be criticised.  New may be different, different is often better than old. 

I know it a lot better than you. In reality, I am much more smug than you, except that when I feel condescending, I resists the urge to lash out and I still treat people in a respectful manner no matter if I disagree with them or not. It is called "good manners".

The fact that you honestly share here with us that you are amused by people's opinions that do not agree with yours is the point where you become smug to others. Get that?

But you know what, you do what you like and I'll do what I like, how's that?  It's not about either of us being right or wrong, but rather, it's about how we differ as folks and how we look at what's available to us to use if we want it. 

Fine. You remember that the next you read my opinion. If you have a different opinion, say your piece, but don't be condescending or I'll call you out. 

I'm as well equipped from personal experience on both sides of the rotary knob vs membrane switch unit to determine whether or not there's some decline in quality or user experience. 


There isn't. 

You are not the only person on earth with personal experience. Something works for you? Fine, I won't attack you on that on a personal level. But you're different, people should just be quiet, and move on, right? Get with the times. You talk often like that here, and I will talk back when you do it to me.

I am 49 but I have over 40 years of experience with power tools as I grew up in a body shop/garage. And the older tools were MUCH more reliable than modern tools. Because they relied on simpler and more robust technology. Sure, some things definitely get better with new tech. Brushless motors are a bliss. But not everything is better. Too much electronics in modern tools and that's not a bliss at all. It is just a marketing gig for empty headed people.

Worst of all things are these electronics inside the tools that decide for you when something goes wrong. I used to borrow a Bosch sawzall from somebody which was 20 years old and it just works, all the time. Then I decide to buy my own, a much more modern Makita, and it has anti-kickback protection. Guess what? The darn saw stalls ALL THE TIME. Like, I make a difficult cut that requires some force, and it stops every two seconds to "protect" me. Like, I don't have any muscles to do that for me. Bloody ridiculous. The thing is USELESS. But sure, new tech, right? Great, we can't get any work done anymore.

I notice the same difference between my older 2006 Mini vac and my newer 2018 Midi, the old one just works, all the time, it only quits when I've been sanding for hours in the 35 degree summer sun. The new one? It stops ALL THE TIME. Because it has more electronics in it that supposedly protect the tool. Yeah sure. It interferes with my productivity. And I am pretty sure the newer generation Midi's has even more of that junk inside.

When I got my first Festool in 2008, Festool would advertise everywhere that there tools were more expensive than the competition because they were more robust and would last for 25 years. That was their slogan back then. And then suddenly, you never heard that slogan again.

We all have our own experience, and what works for you does not need to work for somebody else. Accept that, and don't be smug about it.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 02:30 PM by Alex »

Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 194
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2021, 04:17 PM »
I don't think you really understand the meaning of the word 'smug', Alex.  Being open-minded, prepared to move with the times and take advantage of new technologies as they emerge and reach mainstream isn't something to be criticised.  New may be different, different is often better than old. 

I know it a lot better than you. In reality, I am much more smug than you, except that when I feel condescending, I resists the urge to lash out and I still treat people in a respectful manner no matter if I disagree with them or not. It is called "good manners".

The fact that you honestly share here with us that you are amused by people's opinions that do not agree with yours is the point where you become smug to others. Get that?

But you know what, you do what you like and I'll do what I like, how's that?  It's not about either of us being right or wrong, but rather, it's about how we differ as folks and how we look at what's available to us to use if we want it. 

Fine. You remember that the next you read my opinion. If you have a different opinion, say your piece, but don't be condescending or I'll call you out. 

I'm as well equipped from personal experience on both sides of the rotary knob vs membrane switch unit to determine whether or not there's some decline in quality or user experience. 


There isn't. 

You are not the only person on earth with personal experience. Something works for you? Fine, I won't attack you on that on a personal level. But you're different, people should just be quiet, and move on, right? Get with the times. You talk often like that here, and I will talk back when you do it to me.

I am 49 but I have over 40 years of experience with power tools as I grew up in a body shop/garage. And the older tools were MUCH more reliable than modern tools. Because they relied on simpler and more robust technology. Sure, some things definitely get better with new tech. Brushless motors are a bliss. But not everything is better. Too much electronics in modern tools and that's not a bliss at all. It is just a marketing gig for empty headed people.

Worst of all things are these electronics inside the tools that decide for you when something goes wrong. I used to borrow a Bosch sawzall from somebody which was 20 years old and it just works, all the time. Then I decide to buy my own, a much more modern Makita, and it has anti-kickback protection. Guess what? The darn saw stalls ALL THE TIME. Like, I make a difficult cut that requires some force, and it stops every two seconds to "protect" me. Like, I don't have any muscles to do that for me. Bloody ridiculous. The thing is USELESS. But sure, new tech, right? Great, we can't get any work done anymore.

I notice the same difference between my older 2006 Mini vac and my newer 2018 Midi, the old one just works, all the time, it only quits when I've been sanding for hours in the 35 degree summer sun. The new one? It stops ALL THE TIME. Because it has more electronics in it that supposedly protect the tool. Yeah sure. It interferes with my productivity. And I am pretty sure the newer generation Midi's has even more of that junk inside.

When I got my first Festool in 2008, Festool would advertise everywhere that there tools were more expensive than the competition because they were more robust and would last for 25 years. That was their slogan back then. And then suddenly, you never heard that slogan again.

We all have our own experience, and what works for you does not need to work for somebody else. Accept that, and don't be smug about it.


Alex, I'll put this plainly.


I'm not smug.  I'm not arrogant.  I'm not condescending. 


I'm writing from a position where I have first hand experience, using something I've bought and paid for, twice.


It amuses me when I see what you've written here, again.  What amuses me is that you write about your opinions and irrelevant experience in relation to the specific feature of a specific tool, as opposed to writing about your experiences of that tool in real life.


On any forum, for any brand, product line or subject of interest, there will be people who do that.  It's the internet and I get that. 


At the end of the day, my amusement is probably a good thing.  It beats getting angry when people write about things which are no more than un-infored opinion and present it as something worth more than that, when in reality it's just a guy with notions who hasn't actually put these to the test.


You and I along with anyone else who has something to say should be able to say it, whether or not we agree or disagree, without fear that someone's going to get the hump just because what they've said strikes a humorous note for the person who receives the message. 


I'm no spring chicken myself and have just as much time 'on the tools' as you have.  That's completely irrelevant information, coming from either of us.  Where we differ is that I have the first hand experience with the tool models in question to be able to combine with my 40+ years of tool use to bring to bear.  You don't.  That's just a fact, nothing open to argument or dispute.


So when I read strong statements presented as facts when they're no more than opinions formed in the absence of actual experience, this amuses me.  It amuses me that people do that in the first place and it further amuses me that even when these truths are pointed out to some, they can't grasp the futility of their attempts to argue a point they're not in a position to make in the first place.


The internet serves to magnify just how ridiculous this stuff is, and this is just one of those times when it's easy to see how people don't like to be corrected and can't even see how silly they're being. 


I don't want to argue.  There's nothing to be gained of any real value here in going round in circles.  But I'll keep finding opinion (especially when it's malformed) presented as fact rather amusing.


TLDR; I bought two CT Midi I's with membrane controls, filter cleaning, BT remote, integrated hose garages and blower ports.  They're great bits of a kit and a big advancement when considered as a whole compared to older vacs.  They both perform with absolute reliability with a whole host of tools connected, direct cabled and via BT control, without ever doing anything unexpected.  I write from an informed position of ownership, as opposed to as someone who wants something else or doesn't want to buy one of these.  My opinion in this particular instance has value.  The others opinion is misleading, ill-informed and not particularly worth considering as a potential buyer of a modern Festool CT.  You may also find it entertaining or amusing that people in such a position continue to push their notions as valuable input, despite all the practical evidence to the contrary.  If you're Dutch, you might even appreciate the straight-talking, no nonsense response I offer to this guff.



TKS 80 EBS-SET, KS 60 E-Set, TSC 55 REBI, TS 75, HKC 55,
DF 500 & DF 700, OF2020, OF1010 REBQ, OF1010 EBQ, OFK 500,
T18+3, C18, PDC 18/4, TID 18,
RO 150, RO 90, RAS 115, RTS 400, ETS 125, ETS 150/5,
EHL 65, HL 850 EB,
CTL 26 E, CTL MIDI I, CTL-SYS, CT-VA-20
VAC SYS w/ SE1 & SE2, MFT/3, SYS PowerHub, DUO SYSLITE, & KAL.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7785
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2021, 04:54 PM »
Alex, I'll put this plainly.

I'm not smug.  I'm not arrogant.  I'm not condescending. 

It amuses me when I see what you've written here, again.  What amuses me is that you write about your opinions and irrelevant experience in relation to the specific feature of a specific tool, as opposed to writing about your experiences of that tool in real life.


You know what the human experience is, right?

Everybody here reads what you write, Paul.

Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 194
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2021, 05:34 PM »
How about a Straw Man Fallacy, Alex?
TKS 80 EBS-SET, KS 60 E-Set, TSC 55 REBI, TS 75, HKC 55,
DF 500 & DF 700, OF2020, OF1010 REBQ, OF1010 EBQ, OFK 500,
T18+3, C18, PDC 18/4, TID 18,
RO 150, RO 90, RAS 115, RTS 400, ETS 125, ETS 150/5,
EHL 65, HL 850 EB,
CTL 26 E, CTL MIDI I, CTL-SYS, CT-VA-20
VAC SYS w/ SE1 & SE2, MFT/3, SYS PowerHub, DUO SYSLITE, & KAL.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3595
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2021, 08:39 PM »
the membrane panel will break down in time, they all do. 
Snip.

I like the CT15 more than the CT26 I used to own, because in the current application, I don't need it to be mobile. The price is right (for me [tongue]), but the membrane part is its weakest link. Every time I press it, I wonder how long it'll stop working. I wouldn't want it if I had a choice.

My electric range is about 20 years old. and the clock membrane switch is no longer working. Mind you, I've used it about 50 times only (2 times per year due to day-light saving). 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9787
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2021, 02:19 AM »
In terms of design, I really like the hose garage (and also the previous internal power cord storage too) but I do like the solid, flat tops of the Bosch extractors; a place to sit or rest things on. If this was possible or offered as a Systainer-compatible accessory I’d be interested.

Well then today's your lucky day.  [smile]

Here's a nice solid flat top produced by Tanos I believe, I've had it for the last 8 years or so. If you're looking for a nice flat surface for resting things on this could be your dinner winner.




However, if you're looking for a more functional top, just put one of these on top of your Festool vac of choice. I have one of these mounted on the top of a MIDI, a MIDI I & a CT 22. The long narrow hole/slot down the middle acts as a convenient handle for me to easily move it inside or outside, while the hand screw clamp on the top surface acts as a guide to help retain the hose and any cords that are attached.






Offline lloydh

  • Posts: 6
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2021, 09:54 AM »
Let's all remember our online manners [wink]

Well then today's your lucky day.  [smile]

Here's a nice solid flat top produced by Tanos I believe, I've had it for the last 8 years or so. If you're looking for a nice flat surface for resting things on this could be your dinner winner.

Not bad, and two options! 👍
I presume neither hinge open like the plastic MIDI top for quick access to the garage. The handle looks a bit uncomfortable — maybe it's better in person.

OF2200 and a Midi combo is what justified picking up a second one in my case.  Absolutely no issues at all, at least in Europe.

I was really pleased to see this and expected the UK model to be the same (at least the 240V I'm interested in) so why does Festool UK list the "Max. appliance socket connected load" as 1610 W, when Festool DE shows 2200 W  [sad]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9787
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2021, 10:04 AM »
Not bad, and two options! 👍
I presume neither hinge open like the plastic MIDI top for quick access to the garage. The handle looks a bit uncomfortable — maybe it's better in person.

For the plain Tanos top, the North & South green connections need to be undone and for the Festool SYS-MFT the T-Loc has to be rotated.

The elongated slot works well to carry it short distances like outside or up a set of stairs.

I should add, the Tanos plain top is only that...a plain, flat top on the MIDI I because of the hinged cover on the hose garage, however on the CT 22 and MIDI, there is no cover and the hose garage is open so the Tanos item becomes more functional.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 10:13 AM by Cheese »

Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 171
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2021, 10:49 AM »
Finally, a picture of the SYS-MFT on a CT and the underside of the lid. I've been thinking about doing the same thing with having it on the CT for storage of random stuff related to the current task/project and it's looking great for that usage.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9787
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2021, 11:09 AM »
Finally, a picture of the SYS-MFT on a CT and the underside of the lid. I've been thinking about doing the same thing with having it on the CT for storage of random stuff related to the current task/project and it's looking great for that usage.

And if you need more room than that, take a Sys 2 or Sys 3 and swap out covers.

Offline Dr. P. Venkman

  • Posts: 168
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2021, 01:16 PM »
@Cheese

LOL @ the Hillshire Farm plastic containers inside that systainer.  I have tons of those and use them all the time.

Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 194
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2021, 04:32 PM »

OF2200 and a Midi combo is what justified picking up a second one in my case.  Absolutely no issues at all, at least in Europe.

I was really pleased to see this and expected the UK model to be the same (at least the 240V I'm interested in) so why does Festool UK list the "Max. appliance socket connected load" as 1610 W, when Festool DE shows 2200 W  [sad]


To understand the limitation imposed by your location in the UK, apply Ohm's law.


The Midi power rating varies from 350-1200W.  Take the upper.  Add 2200W for power take off for the EU market gives 3400W.  Divide that by the nominal voltage, say 220V (pick the lower end of the 220-240V nominal range in this case for the correct safety margin), gives the Ampere rating. 


That example works out at 14.78 amps.  On a UK 3 pin 13A plug and socket combination, that could be a bad thing, if the supply wiring to the socket were not adequately sized and protected.  Not only in theory but in practice, a fire in a wall or ceiling cavity could be the end result.

On the UK market CT's, the manufacturer of ANY power tools need to consider the limitation imposed by a 13A as opposed to 16A rated plug/socket.  Therefore, running the same calculation for the UK works out at 12.78A taking the 1200W for the CT and 1610W for the power take off, at 220V. 


Suffice to say, the limitation in this case is all down to the UK plug and socket.  A bigger CT won't help. 


In order to safely power a 2200W power tool in the UK via the PTO socket on the 1200W CT, even one imported from the continent with a Schuko plug, one would need to have a rock solid 16A protected feed from a suitable bus bar in the consumer unit, feeding a 16A rated socket, into which a 16A rated plug would fit to feed the CT with its go-go juice. 


Again, no suggestion you should modify a UK market CT.  Just explaining what's different about your current setup compared to your European brethren.  Were I to move 'home' and fit a 13A plug to my CT, a reasonable and common enough thing to do, I'd have to reduce my PTO connected power tool to something with no more than 1610W power rating to maintain that .22A margin.  Unless I had a 16A Schuko socket, 2.5mm2 cabling and a suitable trip on the CU so it was being fed the same way it would have been here in the euro-norm-land. 

« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 04:37 PM by Paul_HKI »
TKS 80 EBS-SET, KS 60 E-Set, TSC 55 REBI, TS 75, HKC 55,
DF 500 & DF 700, OF2020, OF1010 REBQ, OF1010 EBQ, OFK 500,
T18+3, C18, PDC 18/4, TID 18,
RO 150, RO 90, RAS 115, RTS 400, ETS 125, ETS 150/5,
EHL 65, HL 850 EB,
CTL 26 E, CTL MIDI I, CTL-SYS, CT-VA-20
VAC SYS w/ SE1 & SE2, MFT/3, SYS PowerHub, DUO SYSLITE, & KAL.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1329
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2021, 07:19 PM »
Not knowing the UK system, I believe Paul is right.

My CTM 26AC has its origin as a DK (Denmark) spec vac. I bought it unused and found that it had a Danish socket, where the lid said max 1100W.. In my country we’re almost shifted entirely to Schuko grounded sockets, and wiring that handles 16Ah. I checked the part no’ for the main board of the exact same CT, but with my native specs, and they were the same.
So i solved this by buying the Schuko socket and changed the label appropriately to match the max 3600W total draw from our native sockets to a label with max 2400W (Label of choice was supplied with the original Festool part)

In Denmark they have 3 different sockets, where Schuko is at top with the same as here, (3680W), but the lowest Ah is one of the most common sockets in Denmark, and the total of these are rated at 10Ah (2300W max) So if one withdraw the CT’s 1200W, there’s only 1100W left for the socket on the CT.

I have some old sockets in my old house, rated at 10Ah, and I don’t use these for heavy loads.
There where mandatory to exchange sockets in kitchen, bathrooms and outside use (ie; garage) to grounded 16Ah (10Ah too) sockets, wiring and circuit brakers some years ago. And these are intended for technical and grounded equipment, and that’s where the heavy loads go.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1329
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2021, 07:25 PM »
Cheese, nice old W-Top!  [wink]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9787
Re: New CT 26/36/48 Refresh
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2021, 10:30 PM »
Hey Festita…just curious what a W top is.