Author Topic: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!  (Read 596013 times)

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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2402
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1170 on: April 05, 2021, 09:50 PM »
Especially for the odd accessory here and there, it would me much easier to just click on festool.XYZ, add to basket and have it shipped instead of hunting for a dealer. Especially for the more obscure pieces where it makes no sense to stock them.
I don't know how it's done elsewhere, but in the US there is no hunting for dealers. You go to festoolusa.com, find your obscure item, click purchase online and it gives you list dealers that have it, and you go straight to the item's page. It's literally one click away, or one of those could be local to you. I don't know how much easier it could be.
There must be a good reason why all tool manufacturers sell through dealers.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 11:01 PM by Svar »

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Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1449
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1171 on: April 05, 2021, 10:50 PM »
I'm guessing Festool dealer agreements are "all or nothing" , so all dealers have the item no matter how random/odd it is, unless they are out of stock.

That said, I wish Festool sold stuff direct. If it means Festool sells random/odd/low volume stuff that dealers don't want to carry, then that could be a win for all. Dealers have less stuff collecting dust, yet stuff is available that might be NIANA simply because it has an expected very low sales rate, etc.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 497
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1172 on: April 06, 2021, 05:55 AM »
I don't know how it's done elsewhere, but in the US there is no hunting for dealers. You go to festoolusa.com, find your obscure item, click purchase online and it gives you list dealers that have it, and you go straight to the item's page. It's literally one click away, or one of those could be local to you. I don't know how much easier it could be.
This is not so in Europe - here the price controls are forbidden so Festool has precisely zero control over the dealer networks (or re-sale of their tools by wholesalers. Also, here price-search engines are much more common.

In CZ (10 million population) there are a couple tens of true "dealers" who focus more on the professional (stocking consumables, accessories etc.). But hundreds online shops. Also, most dealers do NOT have the full Festool catalog on their webs so you could directly order. It is simply not economical for them to keep track with Festool catalog at all times.

I believe the convenience you mention is part of the benefit you pay by NAINA. You get easy availability, but a fraction of the selection we get in Europe - but without easy availability.

Here for non-standard items, you either find it online by part# (there are only two or there eshops in whole of Germany who track all Festool parts) OR, more likely, you need to email your dealer, have him check availability and price it, then send you and offer you can accept. That is OK, for expensive kit like a Zobo, but a PITA for small consumables etc.

One of the things a (model of) direct sales can bring to US is actually a wider SKU selection - if you have (semi?)direct sales option/scenario, your per-SKU costs are lower for rare items as you can just stock them only on the central warehouse.

Quote
There must be a good reason why all tool manufacturers sell through dealers.
The dealer network is normally your close-by point of sale and is essential for pro users. If you sell to pros, you need a dealer network, simple as that. But then you need a model to finance (as little as possible) without having to directly manage it ... That is why it is common for companies to have dealer-only policies. It is a part of the agreement with the dealers where they are assured the manufacturer will not undercut them by direct sales.

With online this is changing, but there are ways how to enable this model like I mentioned - direct order to dealer, high shipping charges (so direct order is economically disadvantaged compared to a dealer-order) etc. IMO Festool should not only come to grips with this but also consider how the new options can improve buyer experience.
They will have to do that sooner or later. The competition has projects like that either already implemented or in the pipelines.

Where there is buyer value, someone will come and exploit it if you do not ...
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 05:59 AM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline SDWW2019

  • Posts: 66
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1173 on: April 06, 2021, 10:34 AM »
To be clear, I am not saying to eliminate dealers…since it is nice to check somethings out in a store or, as identified above, good for pro's. But it is a bit archaic, in today’s world, to rely solely on independent/affiliated dealers and third parties. As mentioned above, while the USA Festool website links you to an independent seller, based on my experience it is no way “easy” or convenient (e.g., availability not accurate, may need to go to multiple sellers for multiple purchases, different customer service experiences, dealers provided by site are not inclusive of all available sellers, etc.). Shopping locally (which are not linked to the Festool USA site) means I have to call around and also generally requires waiting for their “Festool Guy” to call you back. Again, I think experience could be better and more convenient if Festool provided an option to buy directly from them. Imagine a system were the entire line up, all accessories, and parts are available, including clear info on availability and status of backorders, etc. Heck, this would eliminate half the rumors, gossip, and sensationalized opinions on this blog. Then people may actually have time to post about their actual projects or helpful technics.  ;D

Somewhat related, we recently replaced our  vehicles with Tesla’s and their system of direct purchase was an awesome experience. Everything completed quickly online, no sales person, no waiting to haggle or wait to see if sales manager “can come back with a better price”, no pitches for under coating, etc. We showed up on delivery day, signed the forms waiting in car for you, and drove away. That’s it…30 minutes and we were done. BTW – I see a lot of similarities on these blogs between the Tesla and Festool commentariat (fanboys and their haters) (e.g., unrealistic expectations not being met, criticism of price, user error with technology, blathering on about how cheaper is better than price and vice versa, etc.).
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 10:38 AM by SDWW2019 »

Offline mino

  • Posts: 497
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1174 on: April 06, 2021, 11:06 AM »
...
Then people may actually have time to post about their actual projects or helpful technics.  ;D
Oh mY! We cannot have that!

Can we ?
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1449
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1175 on: April 06, 2021, 12:53 PM »
Heck, this would eliminate half the rumors, gossip, and sensationalized opinions ..


So put the internet out of business...

And yes, the tesla/apple/etc type sales model is where everything is going.  Festool has done the first step, with the unified pricing. That makes the next step of selling direct work as now dealers are not competing against Festool selling for a lower price, etc. While some get upset over it, unified pricing is an all around win. This is how Apple and other companies are able to do it and not destroy their dealers.  Cars are a great example, people just want to be able to configure a car, it tells you the price, that is the price, the end. I hope it will only be a few more years and courts will throw out the car dealership laws. (for those outside the US, it's illegal for a car company to sell you a car here, you have to buy it thru a dealership and all the heck that goes with it such as completely undefined price of vehicle you are buying).

Anyways, "I wish festool made a better sales model" might be drifting...

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2402
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1176 on: April 06, 2021, 01:06 PM »
...
Then people may actually have time to post about their actual projects or helpful technics.  ;D
It's a matter of personal priorities and attitude. Some choose to post projects, others choose to complain. No amount of operational changes by FT will affect those personal choices.

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 201
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1177 on: April 08, 2021, 10:26 AM »
... a 18v finger sander with at least some attempt at dust collection
CSX T18+3 TID18 HKC55 OSC18 OS400 OF1010 LR32 DF700 RAS115 DTS400 ETC125 CTSys CTMidi CT-VA

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7483
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1178 on: April 08, 2021, 11:45 AM »
... a 18v finger sander with at least some attempt at dust collection

They used to have a finger sander, or band file as it is called here, as a removable head for the RAS 115. Dust extraction was non-existent, sort of comes with the territory. I still bang my head against the wall sometimes for not taking a deal where I could get a used RAS 115 + BF1 full set for only €300.

Offline notenoughcash

  • Posts: 123
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1179 on: April 22, 2021, 06:45 AM »
a hkc 85 would be nice

and a tsc75 with the same depth adjuster as the ts/tsc55

and a flexi rail would be very nice.

and a dfc 500.  makita do a cordless busicet jointer, soooooooo

ehc 65 would also be apeciated festool [wink]
turns out that woodworking is 1% making things you'll use, 4% making bespoke high end firewood, 15% cleaning, and 80% looking for the bl**dy thing you just put down
PSC 420 EB, TSC 55 REB, CTL MIDI I

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2706
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1180 on: April 22, 2021, 08:08 AM »
A DFC500 with a built-in LED and dust bag...totally cordless and hoseless. [big grin]
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 08:11 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7483
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1181 on: April 22, 2021, 08:14 AM »
A DFC500 with a built-in LED and dust bag...totally cordless and hoseless. [big grin]

Hmm, I can see its appeal, but technically difficult as it would need a built in fan to create a vacuum.

Offline Yardbird

  • Posts: 166
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1182 on: April 22, 2021, 02:51 PM »
An adapter for 5.2 battery tools like the Ergo Power Adapter on the  ETSC-RTSC-DTSC sander sets that lets you choose between using batteries or 120V.  That way, when  my batteries eventually go south (and they will) I could use the adapter and 120V to continue using my tools.  My main concern about the battery platform is battery failure, and I have a bunch invested in battery Festool items in the last year.  I just sent a BT battery in (less than 9 months old) because it would not take a charge.  So I make sure no tool is put away with the battery connected, and have concerns about battery life.   

Offline mino

  • Posts: 497
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1183 on: April 23, 2021, 04:50 AM »
An adapter for 5.2 battery tools like the Ergo Power Adapter on the  ETSC-RTSC-DTSC sander sets that lets you choose between using batteries or 120V.  That way, when  my batteries eventually go south (and they will) I could use the adapter and 120V to continue using my tools.  My main concern about the battery platform is battery failure, and I have a bunch invested in battery Festool items in the last year.  I just sent a BT battery in (less than 9 months old) because it would not take a charge.  So I make sure no tool is put away with the battery connected, and have concerns about battery life.
That would be nice, especially for the light-duty work where the adapter can be lighter for prolonged use in a production setting.

But would not concern availability.
New original batteries for Festo drills sold 20 yrs ago are readily available today - possibly not in US as the tools were not sold there then.  This includes the NiCd and NiMH packs from the early 90s first gen tools. Also 3rd party compatible batteries to those are out there.

I would not worry there at all for any of the major tool makers. Worst case, third parties will pick up the market.
And if you now plan to keep your tools beyond 2050, you may as well buy a humanoid AI controlled machine to replace the tools. [cool]
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline notenoughcash

  • Posts: 123
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1184 on: April 30, 2021, 06:14 AM »
a way to change the suction of the vac via Bluetooth, such as on the sander batterys.

and a EHLC 65.  puh leese.  it would fill in a big gap.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 08:50 AM by notenoughcash »
turns out that woodworking is 1% making things you'll use, 4% making bespoke high end firewood, 15% cleaning, and 80% looking for the bl**dy thing you just put down
PSC 420 EB, TSC 55 REB, CTL MIDI I

Offline c_dwyer

  • Posts: 173
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1185 on: May 30, 2021, 02:48 PM »
Longer jigsaw blades please. The longest for wood is the 204335 - I could use something that has a cutting length more than the 4.75" than that particular blade allows at 90 degrees. Going longer is requiring me to use the reciprocating saw, which doesn't allow me to cut smooth(er) turns and control the cut better.

Please Festool, longer jigsaw blades?

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 2133
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1186 on: May 30, 2021, 03:23 PM »
I wish Festool made a router with an LED light built in, or a retrofit kit to add a LED light to existing routers.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 508
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1187 on: May 31, 2021, 11:26 AM »
I wish Festool made a router with an LED light built in, or a retrofit kit to add a LED light to existing routers.
I see this a lot, but don't really get it? How often do you really see where you are cutting? With the above base dust port connected you can't see the bit at all, and light isn't the issue.
If you are doing things like butterfly inlays by eye, rather than a templet, maybe. But is that the main use of a router?
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 201
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1188 on: May 31, 2021, 04:01 PM »
I see this a lot, but don't really get it?

You can always tell the guys who work in a nice dry well-lit shop. ;)

I'm kind of with you there. With routers I try to corral the cut as much as possible and not even have to look. But other times it's nice to be able to see, like to get an idea of how much further to plunge before it hits the stop (and etc.) The Makita cordless was the first router I had with a light. I like that the light serves as a signal that the tool is spinning, or at least ready to go. I probably won't buy another router without a light. Same goes for my OMT. 
CSX T18+3 TID18 HKC55 OSC18 OS400 OF1010 LR32 DF700 RAS115 DTS400 ETC125 CTSys CTMidi CT-VA

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 508
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1189 on: May 31, 2021, 04:29 PM »
I have a couple of those cordless Makitas myself and I just see the lights as something that draws the battery down faster....lol
Most of the routing that I do is either bearing guided, templet guided, or on a Festool rail, usually with stops too. Seeing the bit is just not necessary, besides, if you can see it, it can throw chips in your face.
Well lit shop, definitely. Sometimes you have to work for it though. The lights are all on motion sensors, so if you are working in one place, not moving around much, the adjacent sections will shut off. It doesn't happen often during a regular day throughout most of the shop, but there are fringe areas where it does. It's not like it goes dark, but it is noticeable. A few steps in the right direction fixes it, if you really need it.
Most of the 110v outlets go off about an hour after work too. This leaves time for battery chargers to work, if you choose to do that at the end of the day. There are some that stay on for computers, but that's it.
The air compressors go on and off automatically too.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8605
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1190 on: May 31, 2021, 07:11 PM »
Longer jigsaw blades please. The longest for wood is the 204335 - I could use something that has a cutting length more than the 4.75.

Hey @c_dwyer try Bosch, they offer 6”, 7” & 10”.

Offline c_dwyer

  • Posts: 173
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1191 on: May 31, 2021, 09:55 PM »
Thank you @Cheese, I greatly appreciate the tip!! Problem solved!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8605
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1192 on: May 31, 2021, 10:27 PM »
Ya, I purchased the 10" long Bosch version several years ago and wanted to do a Carvex vs Trion vs Mafell P1 cc comparison with that blade because this was the worst case scenario for cutting thick timber.  I originally figured that a jigsaw would be very interesting for cutting thick timbers. My hunch is P1 cc first...Trion second and Carvex third.

Here's a photo of the 10" Bosch blade.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 09:45 AM by Cheese »

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 2133
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1193 on: June 01, 2021, 04:33 AM »
"I see this a lot, but don't really get it?"

I find it helpful when setting up. Makes it easier to see layout lines
by eliminating shadows.

I don't usually need or want to watch the bit spin with a guided cut.
But if I'm free-handing something I do need to see what's happening
at ground zero.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline allthegearnoidea

  • Posts: 18
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1194 on: June 01, 2021, 07:25 AM »
10.8v range. Why do we only have the CXS? Is it something to do with the existing 2.6 ah battery chemistry just can't support the needs of saws, impact drivers, etc?

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 448
Re: Fill in the blank: I wish Festool made a ______!
« Reply #1195 on: June 01, 2021, 09:59 AM »
10.8v range. Why do we only have the CXS? Is it something to do with the existing 2.6 ah battery chemistry just can't support the needs of saws, impact drivers, etc?

I mean, technically there's also the TXS...

I just don't know that Festool is interested in chasing another battery size/voltage/architecture at this point.  The T18 is already pretty small as a "compact" drill, the subcompact market is even more brutal both in terms of the number of offerings as well as prices.  With the CXS/TXS sets running $260 with just the standard chuck and Centrotec chuck, I can't see anything Festool competing at the price range that other subcompact offerings compete at.

As far as the battery, many of the subcompacts from other manufacturers use a stick-shaped battery; the old model of CXS and TXS used a flat/stick battery combo that went up into the handle of the tool, but they moved to a flat pack instead of a stick pack when they updated them a few years back.

I've used my CXS more than any other Festool in my possession, and more than almost any other drill I've owned in the past 15 years.  By the time I reach my 1-year anniversary of owning it, I expect I'll have more hours on that little drill than all of my other past drills combined for 20+ years, it's just that handy.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't take a "powered screwdriver" (stick-shaped battery driver) if one was offered, but I haven't run into the need for one quite yet.