What is your recipro saw is someone else's 1/2" drive impact wrench and another one's grease gun. See where this is going?

If you need a large selection of basic tools running on a single battery platform there are options out there for that. Even at least two combining niche/ speciality tools from different manufacturers and their own main/basic tool selection running on the same battery platform.

No one (here) knows what tools Festool has in the making/ are going to be released sometime in future or if maybe they are even on the verge of joining one of those battery sharing alliances. Still, in my opinion it makes absolutely no sense for Festool to widen the range of basic/general tools just so they are available within the Festool battery platform.

Since you mentioned Sauter and it being a German shop, if it's solely about storage/ stringent use of Systainer for a variety of basic/general corded/cordless tools, take a look at the offerings from BTI.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Thanks Six. What's BTI? Yes, the storage is very useful as are the systems with MFT and dust collection. I do see where it's going but just putting my devils advocate hat on, Festool released an oscillator and angle grinder which could easily be described as tools that fall outside the pale when it comes to Festool's core competencies but common, popular, and somewhat basic tools. I also think we can largely agree on the basics. Is a drill-driver a basic? Yes. Do Festool support it? Yes. Is it part of their core competency? Yes. Is an Oscillator a basic? Maybe. Do Festool support it? Yes. Is it part of their core competency. I doubt it because it's probably a Fein Supercut in Festool's clothing. I'm happy with my Festool purchases and will hopefully get a few more this year including the angle grinder and perhaps their TPC 18/4. I wouldn't want Festool to compromise their quality by box ticking but then again, I bet that if they wanted to expand their lineup a little and outside their core competency, they'd pick a trusted manufacturer to support them white labelling. For what it's worth, Sautershop is really good and the prices are quite fair.

So it is hard for them to put out too many tools, and they have to make choices about their core offerings.

Is it ?    Small or not, they somehow seem to find the time, resources and will to produce softshell jackets, hats, hoodies , and pencils.

Are any of those made by festool or even have any of the "we make it better" DNA in them ?   Nope.  So this notion that there is no need for them to bring a tool (product) just because they can, without it being a true Festool tool doesn't seem true.  Ditto with their KAL lite and Radio.   Nothing particularly special about them, but at least they run on the standard battery.  Unlike their 12v offering.   And lots o energy seems to be spent ordering up Wera stuff in custom colors to put in an expensive shipping box /carrying case.  They must sell the heck outa those 

I think this point was more relevant 4+ years ago when Festool’s 18v line up lacked: impact driver, grinder, oscillator, and not long before that even a circular saw. . . These days i don’t really agree that there are any glaring omissions

I think the point is still quite valid.   Festool's battery powered lineup was very slow to leave the dock a few decades ago and their unwillingness to embrace / recognize / accept that battery pwr was the future, especially LiIon and 18v +,  has cost them to this day.  Their 12v sub compact program practically sank before it left the dock and is still taking on water.

Their 12v drills are still not EC / brushless and their Ah ratings for batteries lags behind the competition.  So much for the "festool touch" huh ?  I won't even get into the lack of other tools those drill batteries fit.


Clearly they can,  and do partner with firms to come up with tools they can't produce in house.  The Vecturo was mentioned already , but they also collaborated with others for their early routers and vacuums as well.  Plus, Daddy has deep pockets as evidenced by the recent acquisitions of SawStop and Shaper Origin - so capital doesn't seem to be an issue either.  And their recent liaison with BOTT benefits the core Festool carpenter, tradesman, or hobbyist user how exactly   Because the addition of side mount sliding mounting arrangement is such an improvement even leaving increased cost out of the equation ?   I think most users will not care if they're even aware.   Clearly, there is precedent for them to use outside help to broaden their offerings. Saying they can't do this or that because they are small or family owned just doesn't make sense.


I say just call it what it is and stop apologizing, deflecting, and making excuses for the short comings,  : It's a niche tool co. that'll never have broad offerings and rarely market leading product spex. Will they have some gems and innovations from time to time? Sure, they proven so.  But even that seems to be on the wane.   

Festool drill/drivers excel through Centrotec & Centrotec consumables which to this day are ahead of competitors offerings.

Festool oscillating tool excels through various add-ons and is ahead of competitors offerings. Is it a Fein at heart? You bet. Festool add-ons can be mounted on the Fein devices.

Festool angle grinder/ diamond cutting systems are ahead of competitors offerings through functionality.

That is what makes Festool, Festool. There is no need for them to bring a tool just because they can, without it being a true Festool tool.

BTI: https://www.bti.de/shop-de/

Kind regards,
Oliver

Agree 100% with these points. A lot of people don't take into account the way everything is a system with Festool, and play nicely together. Plus the very stringent safety and OH&S standards applied, especially with the dangerous dust producing stuff like grinders, etc. I have used a Festool concrete grinder in the past, and because I only rarely need to use it, I own a Makita PC5000 concrete grinder, and I don't have to tell you which one is far away the easier to use tool, and the least harmful dust producing machine!

If I had to use it a reasonable amount frequently however, I'd sell the Makita and get the Festool in a flash! They are streets ahead in every way.

I, for one, am pretty happy that Festool isn't releasing an HK-55-Mark3 - New for 2023! the year after they release the HK-55-Mark2 - New for 2022!

Do they get every tool just right on their first try?  Hardly (see also: TID-18), but I also appreciate that they take the time to try to get it as right as possible and don't waste their R&D budget chasing the next model number for the following year's release with 2 more in-lb of torque than the previous year, or 30 seconds' longer run time on an 8 hour battery.

Same goes for their overall platform breadth.  I would expect some level of dust extraction, blade stabilization, or other refinement from a reciprocating saw with Festool's name on it, whether corded or cordless.  Anything short of "better than what's already out there" would be a waste of their time and resources compared to things like improving their existing lineup.

And even though the NVR switch requirement didn't exactly come out of left field, I feel like it still short-changed some of the update/upgrade plans or at least moved a number of timelines "to the left on the calendar" from what they were originally planning for some tools, and moved other timelines to the right as a result.

I would far prefer to have a smaller range of tools of very high quality, good ergonomics, fantastic usability and performance, and high resale value, than a shed full of DeWalts, Makitas, etc. When I started hanging doors decades ago, I couldn't have done it without the very first tracksaw Festool released.

Most trades require a wider range of tools than the Festool range and they regard their tools as expendable which no hobby WW is ever going to do when they buy a premium brand such as Festool. Also not every trade requires the same tools and the very wide range that Makita etc supply is aimed at each trade requiring a different part of the range.

Just to reiterate my position as it seems to be getting lost on this second page. Festool could do with adding a few more _common_ power tools. I also agree that they should not put out tools for every conceivable use but right now, there's a few things missing that, from my perspective, reduce the value proposition of Festool's own battery platform. While this might be subjective, they have added items that are clearly not designed / made by them so have set a precedent and are clearly not blind to this request. Before posting, I absolutely accepted that I'd need to use a second vendor - either Makita or Hilti - to plug the gaps. I just like Festool enough to want to see them cover those basics as my first preference, especially with their system integrations.

Quote from: surfjungle on January 05, 2023, 09:12 AM

Just to reiterate my position as it seems to be getting lost on this second page. Festool could do with adding a few more _common_ power tools. I also agree that they should not put out tools for every conceivable use but right now, there's a few things missing that, from my perspective, reduce the value proposition of Festool's own battery platform. While this might be subjective, they have added items that are clearly not designed / made by them so have set a precedent and are clearly not blind to this request. Before posting, I absolutely accepted that I'd need to use a second vendor - either Makita or Hilti - to plug the gaps. I just like Festool enough to want to see them cover those basics as my first preference, especially with their system integrations.

I personally think that cross-pollination between brands is something we’re going to see more of going forward - and from a financial point of view it makes a whole lot of sense. The R&D/development costs of bringing a new product to market are huge, so if there’s something already out there which can be adapted and rebranded whilst maintaining the quality status of a brand, it’s pretty much the obvious way to go. Whilst I really do understand your frustration at not currently being able to kit out solely with Festool cordless, I actually admire the company for sticking to its core principles of producing innovative, niche tools rather than trying to be all things to all men. The same thing has been happening across the automotive sector for years - the immediate example which springs to mind is that of the Mercedes Sprinter van. The Volkswagen Crafter is the same van with a different badge. Some goes for the M.A.N. TGE = same van, different badge.

One other important factor is that Festool manufactures in Europe, not in some Far Eastern sweatshop - and that means a state-of-the art, expensive-to-operate facility, manned by employees earning a good living, with healthcare, pension etc. all funded by the profit they make on every tool they sell. Unless the company has a good idea that it can sell enough volume to cover these high costs over the lifetime of a product, they just aren’t going to take that level of risk - and rightly so.

If it came down it it and Festool was to compromise on it's core tenets for a few more basic items, I would still just as happily go with Makita or Hilti. That's an excellent point about the Made-in-Germany items which I presume most are. It's also nice to be supporting a neighbour and the EU.

Festool isn't alone in the concrete world - Metabo's dust management is just as good, and Hilti is right there.  Both co.'s offerings for drilling dust mgmt. put FT to shame.

While I have no experience with Metabo nor Hilti, I'm unsurpised to learn this. I bought a H-class Starmix 1635 that's excellent. Mafell's own M-class is a rebadged Starmix M class. It has autoclean on the filters, something Festool did not have until recently and I think they still may not have it on their H-class. I bought it specifically to deal with plaster and fibre glass.
 

3. In conjunction, I also pointed out that FT partners/ outsources non marketing products like the Vecturo, Radio, handtools, ect........ so to say they can't do this or that because they are small and don't have the resources/contacts to produce new stuff doesn't really seem believable.

Exactly. For example, they could contract out a recip spec to either Metabo or TTI (who own Milwaukee etc).

I do think you missed other's view re: the lack of offerings.  They don't really want a shed full of festools either - they're simply looking for a bit more than is offered now.   And my contention is Festool could do so if they chose to via partnering.   Something they already do.

Absolutely. I'm not looking for 20 new offerings, just less than 5 and this is far less subjective that posters think. Look at all the major brands, find out what is used the most. Where there are draws, use the purchase numbers and you should have what the most popular cordless offerings are. I'm willing to bet that Festool are missing a few. That common power tool not part of Festool's core competencies? No problem - find a competent vendor and work on making some genuine value add modifications and BOOM! I never said I don't accept having to have at least one more brand backing me up.

Separately, it's quite amusing to note that Hilti do not have a high torque drill / driver Nuron offering. Their latest only goes up to 85 Nm. Perhaps impact drills are making high torque less important?