Author Topic: Domino Insertion Pliers  (Read 9311 times)

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Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 787
Domino Insertion Pliers
« on: October 11, 2018, 09:30 AM »
I like the thought of using dominos, but I really struggle with inserting them, tapping them in straight, and avoiding blowouts. 

It seems a tool such as a "Domino Insertion Plier" or "Domino Insertion Press" would greatly assist with this.

I'm envisioning a tool much like a channel lock plier.  Adjustable for the different heights of dominos.  The "jaws" have a hard but smooth backing material to press the domino and support the work without marring.  Squeezing the "pliers" would result in a straight, in-plane clamping force. 

Something like the Raimondi Leveling System Pliers or Kreg Face Clamps, but with hardwood jaw covers and a straight motion would probably work.

Toolmakers?

"Domino Removal Pliers" that didn't deform the domino upon removal would also be great.


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Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 683
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 09:39 AM »
I don't know about inserting, but for removing Dominos I use some of these:

https://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&page=group_detail&groupID=1500

The jaws remain parallel, and aren't serrated, so they don't damage the Domino.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2480
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 09:45 AM »
I also use the Knipex, have the 03-150 and 43-250.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4900
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I like Knipex aligater style pliers too but they are the regular serrated jaws. I don’t find the occasional cross grooves the pliers make on the Dominos to be a problem. If anything they allow some space for glue. And they are compression marks which will likely un-compress from the moisture in the glue.

A couple of times I had to resort to using Vice Grips and a hammer to remove a Domino from a tight mortise. On reflection I decided that if the Domino was that tight it didn’t need glue anyway and I could leave it in so now if they come out with the Knipex pliers they’ll get glue on re-insertion. If they don’t come out they stay and I move on to the next.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2188
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 12:42 PM »
I microwave the dominoes before a glue-up. I have not had much success with my regular plumber pliers in removing the dominoes.

A little while ago, I came across this video on dealing with tight dominoes:


Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7857
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 12:44 PM »
For Domino insertion, I just use a small 12 oz Estwing hammer. It's small & light and you can easily tell when the Dominos have been fully seated. Both the sound and the feel of the hammer change. Make sure you strike the end of the Domino squarely.

For removal I use a Knipex or a Vise-Grip, whichever one is at hand.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 12:46 PM by Cheese »

Online grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 681
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 04:35 PM »
I also use a small, but plastic-capped hammer for insertion, of I don’t do it no hand.

For Domino Extraction I mostly use a knipex cobra 125mm model, since it easily manages the sices and fits nicely in both Domino Systainers (Connectors & plain Tenons).

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4054
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 06:44 PM »
If I need to pull a domino, it's grab the Knipex pliers and go for it.  I usually insert dominoes using a sturdy rubber mallet.  I also gently sand the ends of the dominoes to allow glue to slip by rather than cause a blow-out. 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 787
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 01:32 PM »
I use a sturdy rubber mallet to insert them.  They frequently go in crooked and I have to tap them in straight.  I still think it would be easier and present less of a blowout risk to have a tool that presses them in straight while providing backing support.

To help deal with tightness I don't plunge on my line.  I plunge to each side of it.

I'll get some of those wrench pliers.  Thanks!

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1743
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 02:26 PM »
Short microwave treatment (or a bit longer in >100°C oven) adjusts the domino size to make it fit easier, people claim.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7857
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 04:24 PM »
I use a sturdy rubber mallet to insert them.  They frequently go in crooked and I have to tap them in straight.

Hey Kodi, that’s the reason I quit using a rubber mallet. It’s difficult to contact the Domino squarely and even just the slightest side element to the strike drives the Domino in crooked. Try using a light weight hammer and strike the Domino squarely on the top surface. Just a couple of light taps start it home and then it will self guide itself.  [big grin]

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6349
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 07:12 PM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6454
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2018, 08:32 PM »
 Tom you crack me up

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 253
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2018, 08:52 PM »
Lamello made a tool for squashing thick biscuits.  I just sorted them according to the fit I needed when I used them.   They can be shrunk in a toaster over or light bulb "shop oven" too.

I mostly use dowels lately unless something calls for m&t in which case I do that with a grumble.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 787
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 10:05 AM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

I know you're FAR more skilled than I am and that you're poking fun at me.  Thanks for the laugh.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm requesting.  It isn't the tightness of the domino that's the issue.  A 15mm cut in 18mm material doesn't leave much backing strength for when the dominos are tapped in.  Tap a little too hard, or have a "hydraulic lock" from glue, and the domino blows out the other side of the material.

A pair of pliers that "presses" the domino into place while providing backing support could prevent this.  We have seating tools for bearings and primers, so why not dominos?

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1102
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 10:27 AM »
I mostly use the 6x 40 mm domino's for 18 mm stuff.
If you cut all the mortices on the side where it's 25 mm deep on the first setting, and tap them in all the way,  they won't go in crooked, and you won't have blowouts when assembling. (the domino's are 2 mm shorter than their name)

(So if you use 5x30 domino's, the side where the mortices are in the end of the board, so you won't damage the material if you hammer them in)

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 11:07 AM »
I mostly use the 6x 40 mm domino's for 18 mm stuff.
If you cut all the mortices on the side where it's 25 mm deep on the first setting, and tap them in all the way,  they won't go in crooked, and you won't have blowouts when assembling. (the domino's are 2 mm shorter than their name)

(So if you use 5x30 domino's, the side where the mortices are in the end of the board, so you won't damage the material if you hammer them in)

Yeah, this ^   

   I use 6 x 40 on plywood boxes too. I do 12mm on the face side and 28mm on the edge side. That leaves about 1/4" (two layers of ply) to prevent blow outs. I use a mallet to tap drive / them in. If I need to drive into the face side I make sure the piece is supported on a flat surface. Really removes the blow out problem unless you a really going at it.

If you want to press them in, how about using a quick clamp?

Seth

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6349
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 11:11 AM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

I know you're FAR more skilled than I am and that you're poking fun at me.  Thanks for the laugh.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm requesting.  It isn't the tightness of the domino that's the issue.  A 15mm cut in 18mm material doesn't leave much backing strength for when the dominos are tapped in.  Tap a little too hard, or have a "hydraulic lock" from glue, and the domino blows out the other side of the material.

A pair of pliers that "presses" the domino into place while providing backing support could prevent this.  We have seating tools for bearings and primers, so why not dominos?

Not poking fun at you......well maybe a little [big grin]

To solve the hydraulic issue, roll the domino in glue then insert. The "fluid" is along the side of the "piston" not under it.

With the insertion pliers how would you address center panel Dominos?

Tom


Offline sprior

  • Posts: 449
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2018, 03:05 PM »
Am I the only one who has made a standard out of cutting the domino mortise on the edges of panels with the tight setting and any mortises on the face of plywood on the slightly loose setting?  Aside from avoiding any possibility of the hydraulic lock issue it gives me a little adjust-ability on glue up.

And for an insertion tool I use a round wooden mallet I made on the lathe from a log from my firewood pile.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 787
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2018, 09:12 AM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

I know you're FAR more skilled than I am and that you're poking fun at me.  Thanks for the laugh.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm requesting.  It isn't the tightness of the domino that's the issue.  A 15mm cut in 18mm material doesn't leave much backing strength for when the dominos are tapped in.  Tap a little too hard, or have a "hydraulic lock" from glue, and the domino blows out the other side of the material.

A pair of pliers that "presses" the domino into place while providing backing support could prevent this.  We have seating tools for bearings and primers, so why not dominos?

Not poking fun at you......well maybe a little [big grin]

To solve the hydraulic issue, roll the domino in glue then insert. The "fluid" is along the side of the "piston" not under it.

With the insertion pliers how would you address center panel Dominos?

Tom

They wouldn't address the center panel Dominos. 

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 787
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2018, 09:13 AM »
Am I the only one who has made a standard out of cutting the domino mortise on the edges of panels with the tight setting and any mortises on the face of plywood on the slightly loose setting?  Aside from avoiding any possibility of the hydraulic lock issue it gives me a little adjust-ability on glue up.

And for an insertion tool I use a round wooden mallet I made on the lathe from a log from my firewood pile.

I was doing that.  Now I use the tight setting and plunge on each side of my mark.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4900
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2018, 10:47 AM »
Am I the only one who has made a standard out of cutting the domino mortise on the edges of panels with the tight setting and any mortises on the face of plywood on the slightly loose setting?  Aside from avoiding any possibility of the hydraulic lock issue it gives me a little adjust-ability on glue up.

And for an insertion tool I use a round wooden mallet I made on the lathe from a log from my firewood pile.

I was doing that.  Now I use the tight setting and plunge on each side of my mark.

So you plunge twice for each Domino?

To each his own, but why don’t you just use the built-in medium setting?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2188
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2018, 11:05 AM »
I only plunge twice when I need to correct a misalignment.

Offline StevoWevo

  • Posts: 47
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2020, 08:25 PM »
So I’m new to the domino and maybe I’m doing things in a not so smart way. So let me know. I was using a small dewalt clamp with the rubber grips to pull the stuck ones at first. You can rock it slightly sideways to get them started coming out. Works OK without damaging any parts but a little time consuming.
 Last week I started sanding a few down and colored the ends with a sharpie so I can use them for test fitting. I haven’t had to deal with a glued one yet but I’m sure there will be a liberal amount of cussing applied when that happens

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1743
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2020, 12:50 PM »
Dominos are made of wood. Drying them (microwave- or normal oven) is said to reduces their size do make them easier to remove after dry-fit - without introducing a need to mark them to not accidentely glue something up with too-small sanded down ones...

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 663
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2020, 04:07 PM »
Could an edge clamp work?
This means that you are able to screw the Domino slowly in and let the glue slowly fill backwards avoiding blow out:

https://www.dorchdanola.dk/brands/bessey/enhandskanttvinge-bs-ekt55.html
https://www.bessey.de/en-GB/BESSEY-Tool/Products/Clamping-Tools/Edge-clamps/Edge-clamp-KT5
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Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 29
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 06:08 PM »
Short microwave treatment (or a bit longer in >100°C oven) adjusts the domino size to make it fit easier, people claim.

I have done that with "biscuits" for years. It does work, but really only if they have swelled from humidity. I have always tried to keep them sealed in zipper bags to minimize that though.
Since getting a Domino, my biscuit use has dropped to nearly zero, and I haven't had Dominos swell like that. Maybe they are more stabile? or I have gotten better at keeping them sealed up.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2480
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 06:36 PM »
I keep mine in sealed bags and I keep dissecant bags in the systainer.