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Author Topic: Woodpecker Offset Base System  (Read 3073 times)

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1503
Woodpecker Offset Base System
« on: August 10, 2022, 06:16 PM »
I recently saw this for DF-500 and was intrigued. Like anything from Woodpecker, it's not cheap but it appears to be a high quality product. Has anyone purchased one yet and have any comment?
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Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

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Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 431
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2022, 06:43 PM »
I have this set and now regret buying it.  I used it twice and it works great, but now I think it is a solution looking for a problem.  Had the Festool video below been released two years earlier, I would not have bought the Woodpeckers set.  The Domino cross stops do nearly exactly what I wanted to do.



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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1503
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2022, 06:46 PM »
I have the cross stops.  Was wondering if this plate is superior to the domiplate. It's more adjustable but looks like a bit of a pain to take on and off.
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Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

P1cc, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1400 holey, 1900 rails, OF1400, OF1010, CSX, C18, LR32, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, PM 1500, Jet J/P, FS-WA, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14, TSC 55 KEB, Dash-Board bench system

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4470
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2022, 07:10 PM »
The beauty of the simple Festool cross stop lies in its, well, simplicity because it relies on registering against the previously milled mortises, not against the edge of the workpiece (except for the first or last mortise when using the paddle/spring stop). It also means no flipping/closing of stops is needed in the whole milling process.

Also, you can use the cross stop on a board no matter how crazily wide the board is.

Edit Festool should make all future trim stops, cross tops and support bracket out of aluminum (and for the last one, larger, too). 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 09:45 AM by ChuckS »
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Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1891
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2022, 10:02 PM »
Having recently use the cross stops for a mid-panel join, and following Sedge's advice to use an arrow to keep track of direction left-to-right on one piece, right-to-left on the other), I'm glad that I did a number of test cuts first.  Either my left and right stop are just that poorly engineered that they were noticeably out of alignment after 4 cuts, or my cutter head is off-center enough to cause the same issue.  I didn't test this theory with the paddles yet, since I a) didn't use them for my mid-panel join, and b) already know that they could be out of alignment themselves.
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Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4470
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2022, 10:14 PM »
Quote from: squall_line on August 10, 2022, 10:02 PM
Having recently use the cross stops for a mid-panel join, and following Sedge's advice to use an arrow to keep track of direction left-to-right on one piece, right-to-left on the other), I'm glad that I did a number of test cuts first.  Either my left and right stop are just that poorly engineered that they were noticeably out of alignment after 4 cuts, or my cutter head is off-center enough to cause the same issue.  I didn't test this theory with the paddles yet, since I a) didn't use them for my mid-panel join, and b) already know that they could be out of alignment themselves.

By this " I didn't test this theory with the paddles yet," did you mean that you hadn't used the paddles in your test cuts which had misalignment issues? If so, what did you use to register against the edge when you made the first mortise?
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Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2022, 07:51 AM »
Quote from: squall_line on August 10, 2022, 10:02 PM
Having recently use the cross stops for a mid-panel join, and following Sedge's advice to use an arrow to keep track of direction left-to-right on one piece, right-to-left on the other), I'm glad that I did a number of test cuts first.  Either my left and right stop are just that poorly engineered that they were noticeably out of alignment after 4 cuts, or my cutter head is off-center enough to cause the same issue.  I didn't test this theory with the paddles yet, since I a) didn't use them for my mid-panel join, and b) already know that they could be out of alignment themselves.

@squall_line when you say your cutter head is off-center, do you mean it doesn't line up with the etched mark on the base? I'm asking because I just tried to calibrate my 2007 vintage Domino and mine is off the better part of 1mm. I'm debating sending it in for calibration if that's possible.

Because of this issue there is not enough adjustment range in the clear cursor to get it to align. My pins are also off, but they are adjustable so I should be able to correct that problem.

Thanks.

RMW
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6052
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2022, 12:00 PM »
Quote from: Richard/RMW on August 11, 2022, 07:51 AM
Quote from: squall_line on August 10, 2022, 10:02 PM
Having recently use the cross stops for a mid-panel join, and following Sedge's advice to use an arrow to keep track of direction left-to-right on one piece, right-to-left on the other), I'm glad that I did a number of test cuts first.  Either my left and right stop are just that poorly engineered that they were noticeably out of alignment after 4 cuts, or my cutter head is off-center enough to cause the same issue.  I didn't test this theory with the paddles yet, since I a) didn't use them for my mid-panel join, and b) already know that they could be out of alignment themselves.

@squall_line when you say your cutter head is off-center, do you mean it doesn't line up with the etched mark on the base? I'm asking because I just tried to calibrate my 2007 vintage Domino and mine is off the better part of 1mm. I'm debating sending it in for calibration if that's possible.

Because of this issue there is not enough adjustment range in the clear cursor to get it to align. My pins are also off, but they are adjustable so I should be able to correct that problem.

Thanks.

RMW

This is a well known issue with the early machines. In most cases the plastic curser simply needed some filing to allow it to move over enough to correspond to the actual center of the mortise.
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Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1891
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2022, 12:14 PM »
Quote from: ChuckS on August 10, 2022, 10:14 PM
By this " I didn't test this theory with the paddles yet," did you mean that you hadn't used the paddles in your test cuts which had misalignment issues? If so, what did you use to register against the edge when you made the first mortise?

I was joining a pair of 1x2's to a 1x4 to create a channel to wrap/capture a wrought iron railing to provide a wider contact point for a baby gate.  The 1x2's were around 2/3 the overall length of the 1x4, and the 1x2s were two slightly different lengths, and it didn't bother me enough to make them the same length.  I used the paddle on the 1x2 on a horizontal plunge, and then lined the edge of the 1x2 up with the etched line in the base of the domino to start the vertical plunges in the 1x4.  If they were off, it wasn't going to hurt anything because the rest of the mortises were going to align from each other, rather than from the edge, and the 1x2s weren't placed with any necessary precision (other than mostly-centered lengthwise on the 1x4).  It was a quick-and-dirty project that I just needed to get knocked out.

Quote from: Richard/RMW on August 11, 2022, 07:51 AM
@squall_line when you say your cutter head is off-center, do you mean it doesn't line up with the etched mark on the base? I'm asking because I just tried to calibrate my 2007 vintage Domino and mine is off the better part of 1mm. I'm debating sending it in for calibration if that's possible.

Because of this issue there is not enough adjustment range in the clear cursor to get it to align. My pins are also off, but they are adjustable so I should be able to correct that problem.

Thanks.

RMW

I think it might be, but I'm not sure.  And yes, that would be off-center in relation to the etched centerline on the base plate and/or cursor in the window.  This is on a fairly recent-vintage model from Recon, but I have an old classic-systainer'ed model with the pins that hasn't come out of its case since I purchased it last summer.  I would imagine for as much as it was used by its former owner, it's been dialed in, but maybe not.

I really just need to set aside a weekend to dial in all of my equipment, honestly.
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Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2022, 12:55 PM »
Quote from: squall_line on August 11, 2022, 12:14 PM

Quote from: Richard/RMW on August 11, 2022, 07:51 AM
@squall_line when you say your cutter head is off-center, do you mean it doesn't line up with the etched mark on the base? I'm asking because I just tried to calibrate my 2007 vintage Domino and mine is off the better part of 1mm. I'm debating sending it in for calibration if that's possible.

Because of this issue there is not enough adjustment range in the clear cursor to get it to align. My pins are also off, but they are adjustable so I should be able to correct that problem.

Thanks.

RMW

I think it might be, but I'm not sure.  And yes, that would be off-center in relation to the etched centerline on the base plate and/or cursor in the window.  This is on a fairly recent-vintage model from Recon, but I have an old classic-systainer'ed model with the pins that hasn't come out of its case since I purchased it last summer.  I would imagine for as much as it was used by its former owner, it's been dialed in, but maybe not.

I really just need to set aside a weekend to dial in all of my equipment, honestly.

Thanks. I did the Paul-Marcel calibration routine this weekend and that's when I figured how how far off the centerline is. I went so far as using a magnifying glass when I was aligning things but it's just too far off from the factory to be able to compensate. I'm wondering if it's worth sending it in for repair.

Even my pins are off by 0.5mm, but I discovered they are adjustable so I should be able to dial them in.

RMW
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Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4470
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2022, 02:52 PM »
Quote from: squall_line on August 11, 2022, 12:14 PM
Snip.

I really just need to set aside a weekend to dial in all of my equipment, honestly.

See if those alignment issues go away after you fine-tune your DJ. One thing to watch out is that the cross stops are made of plastic (they should've used aluminum (and made the pins larger)), and they can flex if forced, potentially throwing off the proper registration. So when registering the pin on the cross stop against the wall in a mortise, do it gently.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 03:59 PM by ChuckS »
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Offline Ebuwan

  • Posts: 134
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2022, 03:54 PM »
To answer original post, I have this and have used it.

It's great for larger projects, such as making a "bunch" of something; Kitchen cabinets in my case.

I dont bother using the scale markings on the bars; I mark one of my cabinet panels, line up the domino center line, and set the stop, and so on.

I also have the Woodpecker Parallel guide, which the track is the same size and the stops, so i setup the left AND the right side, so i don't have to keep moving it. This made aligning for the dominos for the cabinet sides much faster.

And yes, it was like a big space ship.

As stated above, it's great for what it's great for; but I don't use it everyday.
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Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2608
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2022, 06:17 PM »
Quote from: MikeGE on August 10, 2022, 06:43 PM
I used it twice and it works great, but now I think it is a solution looking for a problem.  Had the Festool video below been released two years earlier, I would not have bought the Woodpeckers set.  The Domino cross stops do nearly exactly what I wanted to do.

That was my impression, from the first time I saw one. Seems over-engineered and cumbersome, while trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist.
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Offline Ebuwan

  • Posts: 134
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2022, 10:30 AM »
Quote
That was my impression, from the first time I saw one. Seems over-engineered and cumbersome, while trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist.

I agree; even though i really like it when it's used for pumping out a lot of dominos in panels, i see the point of where it's a solution looking for a problem, espeically once you see Sedge showing how to use those wings with the pin sticking out. I'll still use it of course, and just for bigger runs of domino'ed together panels for cabinets.

I also understand, if using it out of the box just for this kit, I could see having to move the "wing" from one side to another constantly would be heck of annoying, and the fact I have the rails from the WP Parallel guides makes it a faster operation for me.
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Offline neilc

  • Posts: 3128
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2022, 04:41 PM »
I don't personally find a need to be that accurate on Domino spacing.  I normally set the first domino tight and then go tot he middle setting on the other ones to give me some flexibility on assembly.  That plus cooking the dominoes in the microwave for 45 seconds makes insertion and adjustment pretty easy.

I do use the FT cross stops which are much smaller and easier to use on occasion.

The one woodpecker tool that I do use with marking Dominos iss their indexed Story Stick ruler -

https://www.woodpeck.com/story-stick-pro.html

I find it useful for many things from spacing screws to dominoes, slats over a distance, etc.
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Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2608
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2022, 05:08 PM »
Agreed there, the story sticks are really nice. They're a bit spendy, but they do the job very well.
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CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400/ LR32, FS1900, FS 2424/ LR32, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set, Bluetooth remote
CT15
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
RTS 400
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set
Pliers set

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4470
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2022, 06:23 PM »
I don't use the cross stop for mid-panel joinery because the fence is not involved, so it's hard to screw things up even without any or proper marking.

Once mastered, the tool offers placement-lines free mortising provided the paddle/spring stop is calibrated. Try it on a rail & stile (with a mid-stile) construction without marking even one pencil line!

Before I became accustomed to using the cross stop, I occasionally used this story stick/blue tape trick from Fine Woodworking for edge-jointing multiple boards:




« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 06:26 PM by ChuckS »
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Offline Ebuwan

  • Posts: 134
Re: Woodpecker Offset Base System
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2022, 09:05 AM »
Quote from: ChuckS on August 12, 2022, 06:23 PM

Once mastered, the tool offers placement-lines free mortising provided the paddle/spring stop is calibrated. Try it on a rail & stile (with a mid-stile) construction without marking even one pencil line!

(Attachment Link)


This was why I got it; granted, Pencil marks are way cheaper, but when you're on a tight time budget, any time saved is worth it.
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