Author Topic: why oh why DTS 400  (Read 1132 times)

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Offline afish

  • Posts: 122
why oh why DTS 400
« on: October 17, 2020, 09:18 AM »
    So I have been looking to acquire my first festool sander or two and been looking at the ETS 125 for general purpose and the DTS 400 for corners. However the DTS  really irks me.  The fact that Festool didnt make the DTS and RTS pads interchangeable really annoys me but the bigger issue is I see the the issue of the tip of the DTS paper wearing so much faster than the rest of the pad.  So when using the DTS for its intended purpose (sanding tight spots and corners) you end up throwing away 95% of the not so cheap abrasive.  Am I the only one that thinks the pad should have been made in the shape of a triangle instead of an iron? Kind of like a jumbo sized pad that the RO 90 uses.  If it was triangle shaped the abrasive could be rotated 3 times.  I know some will say just buy the RO90 but that thing is long and gangly.  The DTS body is perfectly sized one hander for tight spots like drawers but the downfalls kind of kill it for me.  SO know Im wondering should I step up to a better 150 sander and get a cheaper brand delta style sander?  Is there any good options to the DTS?  I know Bosch makes a RTS/DTS looking sander but its not available here in the US. I dont see the DTS as my main sander just mostly touching up inside corners.

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Offline ProCarpenterRVA

  • Posts: 126
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2020, 10:05 AM »
I use a Fein MultiMaster and a RTS 400 to detail raised panel doors after glue up. If you buy a new one and get the kit that I did, it comes with a cool little head that can be used for rounded ovolo shapes and other profiles. It has a dust attachment as well. The multimaster has a much smaller size triangle sanding head and sanding fingers as well.

https://www.toolnut.com/fein-fsc-500-qsl-wood-supercut-interior-construction-oscillating-tool-systainer-kit.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwrKr8BRB_EiwA7eFapsi8GEuyouyPW6f8Wm2Tu0kU7opQFEw4g7IEYEVYiGpjNipHuQoEKRoCj2QQAvD_BwE

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7770
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2020, 10:27 AM »
Consider picking up a Festool DX 93, it's discontinued but they're still around in used condition. It uses the same paper as the RO 90 with the triangular pad.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2011
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2020, 10:51 AM »
I had the DX93 and sold it. It may work well for some corners, but doesn't work for sanding the inside corners of boxes and drawers because of its long handle.

The solution to get the most of your DTS400 sandpaper is to also use it as a finish sander on flat surfaces. It is a great finish sander regardless of its pad shape and does at least as good a job as the ETS125 or ETS150; maybe better at higher grits.

My limited use of it for corners does result in wear of the tip but I have used the back corners for sanding in corners also. I think that can work as well as the tip at the front of the sander. Also, the shape of the pad allows sanding along inside edges because the pad bows out. I don't know if that's ideal but it does work well for sanding along the entire inside of a box or drawer base.
Randy

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6783
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2020, 12:06 PM »
I see the the issue of the tip of the DTS paper wearing so much faster than the rest of the pad.  So when using the DTS for its intended purpose (sanding tight spots and corners) you end up throwing away 95% of the not so cheap abrasive.

All I can say is that you've got a completely wrong idea about what exactly is the intended purpose of the DTS.

The DTS is my main sander and I am sanding full houses with it all day long. And rest assured that I am not throwing away 95% of its costly paper. It is NOT a sander you use only for its tip. Where did you get that idea? Just because it has a tip it means you use the tip only? What a complete lack of imagination.

The DTS is meant as a sander that can do all the woodwork you've got. It is the main sander for professional painters over here and that mostly because it can do all doors and windows and their trim and stairs on its own. A big flat pad for the perfect balance on flat surfaces, even if the pad is bigger and hangs over, with the bonus of a tip that gets you in corners and hard to reach places.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Offline afish

  • Posts: 122
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 01:18 PM »
Its great that you use the sander the way you do but everyone has different needs.  I dont paint whole houses nor would I want to... I dont think that makes me lacking in the imagination dept.  Perhaps its just some short sightedness for others that think everyone uses the the sander the same way they do.  If it wasn't designed for sanding into corners why does it have a pointed tip?  I just think it would have been better designed with a pad that if someone that would be utilizing the tip more would get more use out of the paper. I have read plenty of post that state the tip wears out before the rest, so Im sure Im not the only one that would be using the tip more.  Every task you showed could have been accomplished with more of a triangular shaped pad.  So, what purpose does the iron shaped pad serve OVER one that is triangular? As far as I can tell a triangular pad would do everything the current shape does with the added benefit of being able to rotate the paper IF needed.  I see no benefit to its current shape over more triangular but maybe that is due to my lack of imagination.  I also agree the DX93 is to long.  Im trying to avoid anything with longish handle.  The shape of the DTS body is nice and the main reason why I like it other than better dust collection.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 637
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 02:08 PM »
Why not get hold of some rectangular or similar paper that has velcro fixing, cut small triangles that fit the tip. You can easily trace from the pad and make a template for trimming new pieces.
Leave a paper on the back part of the sole, cut short to match your own specified exchangeable tips. That way you may eat through your small triangle tip’s and leave just paper on the rest of the pad for protection.

My late consumer Black&Decker 2in1 sander had round 125mm and a delta pad, with a rotatable tip and pre-cut sanding paper tips that was supplied with 2 extra tips on each sheet of paper. (It did double as a random orbit sander as it was supplied with both a delta pad and a circular pad) I kind of miss it, but my ex wife was the “sanding force” in our joint ventures, sooo she inherited that one..  [big grin]

The paper for the delta pad looked like this:

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6783
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2020, 03:20 PM »
If it wasn't designed for sanding into corners why does it have a pointed tip? 

Because it was designed to go ..... also ..... into corners. And do more. Multifunction. It's a thing.

I just think it would have been better designed with a pad that if someone that would be utilizing the tip more would get more use out of the paper. I have read plenty of post that state the tip wears out before the rest, so Im sure Im not the only one that would be using the tip more. 

Then why are you blaming the DTS? You've got the RO90 as a specialised corner sander with a paper you can rotate. In the past we had the DX93 for that. The DX93 was for a while my go-to pointy-in-the-corner-go-thingy but that one was quickly retired after I got the DTS.

Every task you showed could have been accomplished with more of a triangular shaped pad.  So, what purpose does the iron shaped pad serve OVER one that is triangular? As far as I can tell a triangular pad would do everything the current shape does with the added benefit of being able to rotate the paper IF needed.  I see no benefit to its current shape over more triangular but maybe that is due to my lack of imagination.

You would seriously suggest you get a sander the size of a DTS with a pure trangular pad? That's the weirdest sander ever and would never sell. You know, sander development already exists for like 70 years, don't you think they've already worked out which shapes get the best result? The DTS is one of Festool's most sold sanders, probably the most sold sander, guess why? The shape is universal.

I also agree the DX93 is to long. 

Hmm, I wonder where that idea originated, 11 years ago.  [tongue]

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-wish-list/compacter-deltex-with-better-onoff-switch/


Offline afish

  • Posts: 122
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2020, 03:29 PM »
All opinion, no fact. 

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6783
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2020, 03:47 PM »
All opinion, no fact.

Says the guy who never owned a Festool sander to the guy who owned 13 different types in the last 12 years.

Opinion? Sure, but who's.....? [wink]

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2020, 03:49 PM »
I love my DTS.  Have I read that users wear out the point of their paper more quickly?  Have I?  Yes to both.  But that is due to tendency of us users of trying to pinpoint the pressure.

The non - straight sides of the sander are great when sanding up to an adjacent piece of work.

Peter

Offline Hawkeye0001

  • Posts: 38
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 05:12 PM »
I find ETS + DTS a perfect combination, they're both my most favorite everyday sanders!
I use the ETS for large surface areas and the DTS for corners, sides and smaller surfaces. The fact that it can get into corners makes it the perfect companion for any of the ROS. To this date I'm yet to miss the RTS as the DTS is just as good (if I were to sand door jambs all day I'd probably opt for the RTS, but if you need to get into corners - why not get one that does both with ease?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2020, 05:32 PM »
@afish and others,

Here is a link to the Festool Live Youtube presentation yesterday.  It was on the cordless sanders but some of the information may be pertinent.



Peter

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2219
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 06:28 PM »
@afish
If in your type of work the front tip wears faster do the following. Align two pads and cut one along the line as shown, rotate. The front of the pad is symmetrical on three lines, the holes will align.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 06:32 PM by Svar »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 122
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 06:55 PM »
Thanks SVAR.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 122
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 08:01 PM »
I find ETS + DTS a perfect combination, they're both my most favorite everyday sanders!
I use the ETS for large surface areas and the DTS for corners, sides and smaller surfaces. The fact that it can get into corners makes it the perfect companion for any of the ROS. To this date I'm yet to miss the RTS as the DTS is just as good (if I were to sand door jambs all day I'd probably opt for the RTS, but if you need to get into corners - why not get one that does both with ease?

Agreed the DTS is better all around sander, and if only choosing one the DTS seems the smarter choice at least for my needs.  The RTS does have an interface pad available if you are doing sanding on contours etc. Which the DTS does not have from what I know.  That doesn't really matter to me but to some it might, since one size doesn't always fit all.  I also agree the ETS 125 and DTS seem to make a good combo.  However I did read that the ec 150 pad will fit on the 125 ec which makes it more appealing on one hand but the smaller sized ETS125REQ is also appealing.  Im thinking I will start with the ETS125REQ and if I need to add a 150 later I will, plus the new planex.  Those 4 should more than cover everything I do, Plus I highly doubt I could ever be awesome enough to handle 13 Festool sanders.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7770
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 10:28 PM »
I thought the ideas that @FestitaMakool and @Svar came up with had a lot of merit so I decided to modify the sanding sheet for a DTSC sander so that it would be compatible with the DX 93 (RO 90) paper.

Here's the sanding sheet for the DTSC is cut into 2 pieces. You'll get 3 sanding corners in one and all of the dust extraction holes are in the right place.




Here I attached a DX 93 paper to the already cut DTSC paper, you'll also get 3 sanding corners, however none of the extraction holes in the 93 paper meet up with the extraction holes in the DTSC pad.  [sad]  The green circles are where additional extraction holes need to be added.

So from my perspective, if you plan on going through 10 or fewer DTSC/DTS sanding sheets then a scissors and cutting the sheets is the simplest move forwards.

If however there will be a lot of sanding sheets that need to be cut, then I'd probably go for the hybrid DX 93/DTSC approach and then just make a hole punch for the DX 93 paper.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 12:05 AM by Cheese »

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 373
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 11:22 PM »
For inside corners on doors, drawers and carcass boxes,  this is my new go to sander:

https://www.mirka.com/en-US/DEOS-353X-CV-3x53mm-1Pkg-MID3530201US/

I find it better than any of the delta sanders I have for this work.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 593
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 11:47 PM »
All I know is that I love my DTS a lot more than I thought I would and hardly ever pick up the RTS. It is very rare that I ruin a tip unless I am removing a stain / finish. When I do ruin a few I just leave them in my slightly used pile and reuse them when I am not stripping out corners. This sander also comes with an edge guard which does not guard the tip but is very effective when using the sander on edge in a captured panel. Personally I love the sweeping curve on the sides. They are much more useful than you think as you move the sander around the work, especially when the field is captured inside adjacent trim. This is a great finish sander that has both power and maneuverability that will surprise you. I believe it to be Festool’s most under appreciated and under utilized sander.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 122
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2020, 09:53 AM »
Personally I love the sweeping curve on the sides. They are much more useful than you think as you move the sander around the work.

Yes I agree,  When I originally suggested that the pad be triangle shaped, I wasn't suggesting straight sides.  I did say more like a jumbo sized RO90 pad.  Which does have the same slightly radiused sides.  The current size is 150x100 so it would only need to get approx 25mm bigger on each side in the rear.  It would still get into corners and most tight spots (sanding between things like spindles could be tougher with a slightly widened rear) but its unclear how well the current size does in that situation. If they had made the pad easily interchangeable they could have offered a few different shapes to make it truly multifunctional.  I saw in the video that someone posted. Festool says they asked and people said they wanted a fixed pad.   I'm not sure who they asked but I think Festool is full of #!*$ on that one.  Who would want to buy, store, tote around 2 or 3 different sanders?  One ETS with a few different pad shapes would seem way better.  You can keep a couple pads in an apron a lot easier than dragging around multiple sanders. Bottom line it looks like the DTS is the best option right now for me for a compact one handed sander for getting into corners with good dust collection which is the the biggest reason I was looking at moving into festool sanders.  Thanks to some of the more thoughtful and intelligent posts I have decided to give the DTS a try even though I think there is still room for improvement. 

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 694
Re: why oh why DTS 400
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2020, 10:34 AM »
@afish
If in your type of work the front tip wears faster do the following. Align two pads and cut one along the line as shown, rotate. The front of the pad is symmetrical on three lines, the holes will align.

(Attachment Link)


Brilliant tip! Makes me want to buy a DTS!  [big grin]
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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