Author Topic: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?  (Read 6172 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 76
Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« on: May 19, 2019, 11:05 AM »
Personally, I find those things way too loud to use without hearing protection, which is a pain to have around when simply screwing fasteners. I've never run into a fastener that the PDC 18 can't drive, so why the desire for an impact? Just curious if I'm missing something glaringly obvious.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6156
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 01:28 PM »
I don't have an impact driver but I could seriously use one. Loud? Sure, but I constantly use hearing protection anyway with all my other tools, so this one would be no different.

An impact driver's main benefit is the way the force of the motor is transmitted to the screw, it is done with lots of small, but powerful impacts. Because there is a minute interval between each impact, the strain on your arm is very small but it still gives a lot of torque to the screw, more than is possible with a normal drill. So not only can you drive bigger screws, but it is more ergonomical also.

A normal drill on the other hands, exerts a constant force on the screw. And with the physics law of action = reaction, that means the force the screw gets, your hand also gets. So doing a lot of heavy screwing can get very tiring for you, but, sometimes it can even be quite painful. It doesn't happen often, but if a large screw binds, the drill can really hurt you by hitting or twisting your hand forcefully. Not so with an impact driver.

Now if you mainly use small screws up to 5 cm / 2'' long, you won't notice the difference so much, but you really do with the bigger ones.

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 291
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2019, 02:05 PM »
Very well stated !  and yes 2” and  longer it’s practically a must have
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 161
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2019, 02:33 PM »
I for one would like an impact with Festool quality batteries, as opposed to the pitiful batteries you get from Makita, etc. Love my Makita and DeWalt impacts to use, but not to keep buying batteries for.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Slowlearner

  • Posts: 64
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2019, 02:52 PM »
We want one so bad bc they dont make one lol

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 536
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2019, 03:03 PM »
Its an obvious hole in the Festool lineup that means a lot of users go to another manufacturer. Marketing fail for a relatively easy to make tool. It doesn't have to be a world beater, just has to rattle screws and smallish bolts in.

I managed for years without an impact screwdriver and yes they are loud but so are the saws and an SDS drill isnt quiet either, I just wear earplugs a lot at work anyway. If you work in a workshop using a tablesaw you should be wearing ear protection also.
I bought my first rattle gun and thought I would hardly use it. Nowadays its out of the van far more than my drill.

I've heard so many carpenters say they hated rattle guns, then they use one for a few days and after that they fast change their ideas.

Dunno about anyone else but I don't just buy tools to impress people, they better make me money and rattle guns are a staple in our industry now. Not making one lets another manufacturer get a foothold with otherwise loyal buyers. Fail.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2724
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2019, 04:05 PM »
I am lucky enough to own the Festool TI 15 model impact driver and a big SDS impact driver. I don’t find either really loud but I do find them great for driving lag screws and drilling concrete. I only use the TI 15 in its impact driver mode as I have a slew of other drills. I’m puzzled as to why Festool stopped selling the TI line.
Birdhunter

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 185
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2019, 04:11 PM »
It may be worthwhile to note that impact drivers and SDS Rotary hammers are quite different beasts.
Both use a striking mechanism, but in impact drivers the impact motion is rotational, with rotary hammers it's inline with the bit or tool. They are not interchangeable.


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 04:44 PM »
Couldn’t be without our impact drivers, we use them constantly, from timber screws to brick and concrete fixings.
We also have a few oil impulse versions, for when we need to keep things quieter. They don’t have the power or torque of the traditional type though.

None of ours are Festool though but, we wouldn’t swap them for Festool or any other brand.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 397
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2019, 05:03 PM »
I have a little 12V Bosch impact screw driver that I use all the time, unless it's very finicky work. It's way faster, more powerful and easier on the wrist. I picked it up cheap second hand because I thought it would be handy to have in a pinch (I already had a 12V Flexiclick driver), I end up using it for most of my screwdriving jobs.

The noise doesn't bother me in the least, it's not nearly as loud as my chop saw, router, multimaster or tracksaw, and generally much shorter in duration.

Of course it doesn't tell the complete story, but to break it down in numbers;
A Festool T18 has a maximum torque of 50nm and a maximum speed of 1500RPM.
My cheap 12V Bosch has 105nm and 2600RPM.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 05:09 PM by Sanderxpander »

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3832
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2019, 05:26 PM »
I would hate to go back to the days of turning screws in by hand, especially when mounting cabinets.  The impact driver makes things so much easier to be productive.  Like Birdhunter, I have the TI 15 and love it.  Must say, it really annoys me to see professionals that should know better over-drive screws with impact drivers, and in doing so, weaken the connection being created.   [sad]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2264
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2019, 05:30 PM »
I love my Festool drivers, CSX,C-18 and PDC.  I also run Milwaukee 12 and 18v tools.  The Milwaukee 18v Surge hydraulic impact driver is fantastic, quiet and adjustable power. 

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2019, 05:41 PM »
I would hate to go back to the days of turning screws in by hand, especially when mounting cabinets.  The impact driver makes things so much easier to be productive.  Like Birdhunter, I have the TI 15 and love it.  Must say, it really annoys me to see professionals that should know better over-drive screws with impact drivers, and in doing so, weaken the connection being created.   [sad]

You’re right about some over torquing screws, our impact drivers have various speed and torque settings to combat this happening.
We also have a few impact drivers that the impact facility can be switched off.
Sure beats the old days with a pump screwdriver!  [big grin] ;)

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2264
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 08:43 AM »
As someone that primarily installs steel and aluminum entrances and used to have to repair in floor door closers, I am especially fond of impact drivers.  Those old whack a mole drivers were pretty worthless.  I very seldom have to drill out screws that have been in for 40+ years thanks to my Milwaukee impactors.

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 530
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 12:13 PM »
I’m puzzled as to why Festool stopped selling the TI line.
I suspect it's the same reason you no longer see the C12 or C/T15 on their site. They likely wanted to focus on 18v. I'm just surprised they didn't offer an 18v version when they discontinued the 15v. I'd guess it had to be because of slow sales on the 15v version.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6156
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2019, 01:51 PM »
There wasn't a Ti Line, it was just one tool, they wanted to foray into new territory, but they experimented a bit too much and overstepped themselves.

As a driver it was just too weak compared to the standards everybody was used to. And the hybrid thingy to deactivate the impact and turn it into a normal drill was just a dumb idea, as it made the driver heavy and unbalanced.

So the Ti15 was not that good at what it was supposed to do, and it could do something, not good either, which nobody needed it to do anyway.

Fail.

Should have just concentrated on bringing one darn good and powerful impact driver to market. Hope they got the message for their new one.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2019, 02:38 PM »
I love my Festool drivers, CSX,C-18 and PDC.  I also run Milwaukee 12 and 18v tools.  The Milwaukee 18v Surge hydraulic impact driver is fantastic, quiet and adjustable power.

That surge unit sounds interesting
+1

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 397
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2019, 02:46 PM »
It's easy to overtorque with an impact if you're used to relying on a clutch. But if you don't mind riding the trigger it's really easy to get the right depth as the driving speed is more constant than with a regular drill which somewhat relies on momentum.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 536
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2019, 04:48 PM »
It's easy to overtorque with an impact if you're used to relying on a clutch. But if you don't mind riding the trigger it's really easy to get the right depth as the driving speed is more constant than with a regular drill which somewhat relies on momentum.

Yeah, can't say I bother with any of the clutches or torque settings on drill drivers but with a little finesse it's not really needed when setting screws.
Some people are just plain numb and will over set any screw they get near but its not that hard to just go easy on small screws or when the head is just about to seat.

One thing about rattle guns is they dont cam out of a screw recess as much as the constant revs of a drill driver so are less prone ro destroying screw heads.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2019, 07:58 PM »
Yeah, can't say I bother with any of the clutches or torque settings on drill drivers but with a little finesse it's not really needed when setting screws....

One task I really like using the screw clutch setting on my driver is with pocket screws and plywood. Too much force has made a mess of things and it happens quick.
+1

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1873
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2019, 08:21 PM »
Yeah, can't say I bother with any of the clutches or torque settings on drill drivers but with a little finesse it's not really needed when setting screws....

One task I really like using the screw clutch setting on my driver is with pocket screws and plywood. Too much force has made a mess of things and it happens quick.

Agree. Those square shoulder screws don’t give you much warning and once they are in the pocket you can’t see ‘em.  [doh]
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 536
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2019, 09:19 PM »
One task I really like using the screw clutch setting on my driver is with pocket screws and plywood. Too much force has made a mess of things and it happens quick.

Ahh, I can't say I ever use pocket screws but understand what you mean.
For one reason or another they seem to be used far more in the States than in the UK.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2019, 02:45 AM »
I think when you’re using these tools day in and day out, you get the feel for the torque.
When we are fixing delicate material with brick or concrete screws, we finish the final torquing one impact at a time until the head is seated nicely and firmly into the countersunk recess.
Our impacts have lots of settings, various torque, various speed, impacts etc. There’s a helper mode, and one where a self tapping screw is started fast to drill the surface, then slowed down to whatever pre set to finish fastening the fixing.
I don’t always use the settings, simply because in many applications I don’t need too.
I also have a few 4 function cordless drills, these have a drill function, speed drill function, impact and hammer, and are very versatile, and I’d imagine for somebody who is doing maintenance, or just needs a handy drill in the workshop, these would be a godsend.
What many do not realise is, although an impact driver is efficient at putting screws in, an equivalent non impact driver will usually have more torque, and can really cause your wrist some problems if a clutch isn’t set right.
I love impact drivers in all their guises, they are almost certainly one of our most used tools for every day jobs.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1358
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2019, 04:14 AM »
"...There’s a helper mode, and one where a self tapping screw is started fast to drill the surface, then slowed down to whatever pre set to finish fastening the fixing..."

Who makes this? I have never heard of a drill/driver with this capability but am interested in knowing more.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2019, 04:21 AM »
Hi Bob, Makita, in the UK the models are DTD 170 and DTD 171.
Great tool and something Makita excels in. IIRC, Makita invented/developed the first cordless drill/drivers. In my opinion they make the best drill/driver/impacts, just as Fein make the best multi tool.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2019, 04:24 AM »
Just to add, I think the “helper mode” is referred to as “assist mode” I’ve just been told by my son.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 397
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2019, 06:21 AM »
Your son seems incredibly smart for his age.

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 530
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2019, 10:36 AM »
"...There’s a helper mode, and one where a self tapping screw is started fast to drill the surface, then slowed down to whatever pre set to finish fastening the fixing..."

Who makes this? I have never heard of a drill/driver with this capability but am interested in knowing more.
@Bob D. IIRC, the Milwaukee Surge also has this.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6156
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2019, 12:22 PM »
There’s a helper mode, and one where a self tapping screw is started fast to drill the surface, then slowed down to whatever pre set to finish fastening the fixing.

What does that do, the helper mode?

I also have a few 4 function cordless drills, these have a drill function, speed drill function, impact and hammer, and are very versatile, and I’d imagine for somebody who is doing maintenance, or just needs a handy drill in the workshop, these would be a godsend.

Can you please name the make and model of those 4 function drills you mention? I am curious now, never heard of such a thing before.

Thanks in advance.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Why do people so badly want a Festool impact driver?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2019, 03:29 PM »
Your son seems incredibly smart for his age.

He is 31  [big grin] ;)