Author Topic: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum  (Read 8928 times)

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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2020, 03:49 AM »
@hammy

As others have said, ETS EC 125 or 150.

I have the ETS EC 150/3 and it does just about everything even some good progress coarse work with 60 or 80 grit Granat. After this you might want to look at a sander with a delta capability and the RO90 would be good as you get the bonus of Rotex mode or the DTS400.

Whatever you get, for wood I always recommend Granat and you do not (normally) need to go above 180 or 220 grit. I use 80 grit 15% of the time, 120 grit 35% of the time and 180 grit the remaining 50 %.

Peter

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Offline mcooley

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2020, 04:31 PM »
No complaints with the ETS 125 REQ with the smaller vac. I professionally build furniture and this is my go to sander for doing a range of tasks. When I need to remove more material I go to the Rotex 125 but the ETS 125 REQ is a much better solution for 120 grit and up etc. The Rotex line is notoriously difficult to control and I find the sander less ergonomically satisfying. Plus the sanding stroke on ETS 125 REQ is 2mm which is pretty fine. Preventing "pigtails" on the Rotex requires more care. I do recommend on all of the sanders NOT to use the vacs on full suction. That is usually how "pigtails" get out of control etc. I have also found being very deliberate about the motion one chooses helps and making sure you sand in both the horizontal and vertical direction like on a grid. The orbital does a much finer job if the "swirl pattern" gets finer and finer. The easiest way to do this is to have the sander pass evenly in those two directions. Using the orbital in a random fashion and picking up and placing down the unit a lot during sanding will leave a less uniform surface. Keeping a consistent rate of motion on the sanding pad is also important so less suction and sand paper that isn't gummed up helps. And lastly if sanding above 320 I would transition over to hand only. The reason for this is at those very high grits it will be very hard not to get any swirl patterns. Therefore, hand finishing works best and in most cases like in furniture ending at 320 is usually fine. Going higher on small surfaces like boxes and the like is more common etc.

Offline Alanbach

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2020, 10:31 PM »
Buying your first Festool sander can be a tough financial nut to swallow and the real problem comes when you realize that you need variable suction. That makes that first purchase much more expensive. The good news is that once you have a Festool sander and a Festool CT vac you have accomplished two things. 1. You now can get the full benefit of a level of dust free sanding ease and even enjoyment that is hard to come by otherwise. 2. From that point on you will own a Festool vac. So if you contemplate other Festool tool purchases you will already own the vac. It may not be the most sexy purchase since it is pricey but it can then be put to use with the entire Festool system of tools. From other specialty sanders, Track saws, routers, to the Domino, you will be ready.

Offline mino

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2020, 04:39 AM »
I would vote for the ETS 125 with the angle guide (aka ES ETS 125).

The guide allows uses not possible otherwise.

And +1 on a proper dust extractor with variable suction.
Mini/Midi + the Bluetooth remote for the hose. That thing is worth its weight in gold-pressed latinum!

EDIT: Forgot the Bluetooth remote use case. Oh, how can one ..
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 04:59 AM by mino »
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Offline hammy

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2020, 07:04 PM »
New question as a follow up.  If I get the ETS EC 125, what would be the drawback with using my regular shop vac?  Would a hobby woodworker like me even notice the difference from using a variable speed vac?  I mean I've only used a Dewalt ROS and Shop vac for the past five years.

Thanks again!

Offline mrB

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2020, 07:22 PM »
New question as a follow up.  If I get the ETS EC 125, what would be the drawback with using my regular shop vac?  Would a hobby woodworker like me even notice the difference from using a variable speed vac?  I mean I've only used a Dewalt ROS and Shop vac for the past five years.

Thanks again!

Ha, Literally just edited my last post to include the following. .

EDIT: Thought I'd add that I definitely feel the ETS EC has better Dust Collection than the Deros. The Deros is fine, just not as good as the Festool. This is my opinion using 125mm paper, not mesh, with the festool hole pattern on each machine.
Also the Festool likes a reduced suction a little more than the Deros cares. If that makes sense. .


I can't say it's a deal breaker, but I have noticed I often reach to reduce the suction on my Mini with the ETS EC as it can feel a little jumpy. If your vac is really powerful and you can't turn it down you might find the ETS EC not the smoothest ride. The Deros handles full power on the extractor much better.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2020, 09:30 PM »
I would vote for the ETS 125 with the angle guide (aka ES ETS 125).

The guide allows uses not possible otherwise.

And +1 on a proper dust extractor with variable suction.
Mini/Midi + the Bluetooth remote for the hose. That thing is worth its weight in gold-pressed latinum!

EDIT: Forgot the Bluetooth remote use case. Oh, how can one ..

Not so.

I’ve been sanding edges with my 125 for more than a dozen years. But I do plan to buy the edge guide because it will make the task easier, and probably turn out better.

Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2020, 09:56 AM »
I have many Festool sanders, but if I had to only have one, I would get the RO150. One of the best and most versatile sander ever made imo.
.

I agree.  I’ll praise the virtues of the RO150.  I’ve used for well over 10 years and would never be without one again.  Its versatility and durability are tough to beat.  It’s difficult to put into words what a time saver the rotex mode is.  Using the rotex mode in lower grits (I always use rotex mode through 120 grit, which is the grit I usually start at with a planed surface), and random orbit mode in higher grits gives you the best of both worlds.  While rotex mode is a two-handed operation, it really isn’t difficult to control at all.  And it acts as an easy-to-control finish sander in higher grits, producing excellent results.  I don’t notice any difference in the end results of the 5mm stroke vs. 2mm of my ETS 125.

If weight isn’t an issue, especially if sanding your work flat on the bench, I would choose the 6” over the 5” every time.  It is just such a time saver.  I use the ETS 125 for narrow work and sanding vertically (which is a role your DeWalt can continue to fill), but I use the RO150 for everything roughly 4” and wider.  Using the hard pad, and being just a bit attentive, greatly helps in maintaining crisp edges on pieces narrower than the pad size.

As mentioned, once you have a tool actuated switch on a vac and variable suction, you’ll wonder how you lived without it

The RO150/vacuum package is a lot of cash, no doubt.  But it is an investment that will pay dividends for years to come.  If something happened to either, I would replace them tomorrow. 

Whatever you choose, good luck!
 

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 188
Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2020, 10:31 AM »
New question as a follow up.  If I get the ETS EC 125, what would be the drawback with using my regular shop vac?  Would a hobby woodworker like me even notice the difference from using a variable speed vac?  I mean I've only used a Dewalt ROS and Shop vac for the past five years.

Thanks again!

Aside from noise...the singular downside is that the sander might get "sticky" as you get to the finer abrasives if it doesn't have a way to vary the speed/vacuum. The CT extractors (and some other higher-end vacuums) have controls that allow you to vary the suction. You can use a bleeder attachment on the hose if need be to simulate a "speed/vacuum" control, of course, but I never found them to be quite as effective as the electronic control on the front of my CT.

The "sticky" effect can be a little more noticeable with the Festool sanders because of the increased air flow design includingn the center hole. The combination of very fine abrasive being somewhat "smooth" and high vacuum makes for what starts to emulate a "vacuum clamp".
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

SCM MiniMax S315WS, FS350, MM16, Camaster Stinger II SR-44 CNC

Offline hammy

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2020, 04:02 PM »
New question as a follow up.  If I get the ETS EC 125, what would be the drawback with using my regular shop vac?  Would a hobby woodworker like me even notice the difference from using a variable speed vac?  I mean I've only used a Dewalt ROS and Shop vac for the past five years.

Thanks again!

Aside from noise...the singular downside is that the sander might get "sticky" as you get to the finer abrasives if it doesn't have a way to vary the speed/vacuum. The CT extractors (and some other higher-end vacuums) have controls that allow you to vary the suction. You can use a bleeder attachment on the hose if need be to simulate a "speed/vacuum" control, of course, but I never found them to be quite as effective as the electronic control on the front of my CT.

The "sticky" effect can be a little more noticeable with the Festool sanders because of the increased air flow design includingn the center hole. The combination of very fine abrasive being somewhat "smooth" and high vacuum makes for what starts to emulate a "vacuum clamp".

Thanks, I can live with the noise since I always use hearing protection anyway.  My Shop Vac probably only sucks with half the force of the Festool Vac so I might be fine there as well.  I guess the only way to find out is to buy a sander and give it a whirl. 

I went from leaning towards the Rotex to the ETS EC but now think I am back to the 6" Rotex.  As a previous post mentioned I always have my Dewalt for small jobs anyway.  I don't currently have any type of belt sander so I can kill two birds with one stone with the Rotex.

Online Alex

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2020, 06:36 PM »
My Shop Vac probably only sucks with half the force of the Festool Vac so I might be fine there as well. 

Don't count on it. The suction of Festool vacs is terrible. Common household vacs have better suction, and your shop vac probably also.

If you don't want to buy a vac, make a bleeder valve, with some sanders lower suction is a must or it will stick so hard to your surface you can't do proper work with it.

Offline mrB

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2020, 10:02 PM »
Well now rotex is in the conversation it’s another story.

It’s bigger and heavier and no where near as nice (in reality) when you’re sanding for hours swaping between surfaces and edges etc. . But the speed of rotex mode makes quick work of sanding a surface in a rather game changing way. It’s an awesome machine.

But it’s heavy and cumbersome, and anyone saying it’s not either haven’t tried to use it as their only sander for entire days of varied sanding tasks or hasn’t used sanders like the ETS EC or DEROS by comparison.

Love my rotex, and honestly it would be and actually was my only sander for a few years, but it’s not always ideal. For material removal it’s basically unrivalled out side of belt sanders, and for covering lots of flat surface with precision nothing else comes close. But there are many many sanding tasks that don’t need the rotex at all, and for those tasks the rotex makes you work a lot harder than the others being debated.

Ultimately there is no sander to beat all others. I have 5 right now and there are two more I still really want.

If you want to rapidly speed up certain sanding tasks the rotex is awesome, it removes so much material so quickly it can often replace a plane or flush cut router for certain tasks if needed.

If you are mostly finish sanding on a variety of projects and size of pieces then the ETS EC will be a joy to use compared with almost any other sander.

Edit: I never really rated the standard random orbit mode of the rotex sanders. It’s fine but always seemed lacking compared to a quality regular random orbit.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 10:12 PM by mrB »
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Alanbach

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2020, 11:28 PM »
If you hate sanding as your original post conveys I am not sure that the Rotex is a great choice as a first sander. If I were you I would get an ETS EC 125/3. It is a comfortable, ergonomic, easy to use one handed sander and if coupled with a Festool CT vac will change your opinion of sanding forever. The Rotex is a great sander but it is two handed, heavy and must be driven precisely. It makes you work at becoming its friend. Simply said it is a beast. Don’t get me wrong, I have an RO125 and I love it but I only pick it up when I need the beast. I use the ETS EC 70 plus % of the time because it is easy to use and is a great finish sander, it is super comfortable to use and I can use it during long sanding sessions with ease.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2020, 12:15 AM »
Whoa...before you put the Rotex back on your short list, I’d stop off at a local dealer and test drive one...they’re cool but strictly niche.

If you hate sanding, you’ll really hate sanding after being on the receiving end of a RO 125 for about 2-3 hours.

Nothing friendly about that sander...everything’s strictly business. Once the cool factor wears off, you’ll be better able to evaluate the usefulness of the Rotex.

Hate to say it but your latest choices will only lead to a future study in self flagellation. A large Rotex while using a conventional shop vac at max suction will not end well. Something has to give.

If you’re determined to purchase a RO then you must couple it with a variable suction vacuum.

My suggestion is to purchase a ETS EC 125 with a 150 pad and fabricate a vacuum release valve for your shop vac.

Offline Stan Tillinghast

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2020, 01:52 AM »
Always listen to advice from Cheese...especially when he agrees with what I already wrote.

Offline Joebuck

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2020, 09:41 AM »
Stan is right. Always listen to Cheese, and in this case Peter P as well. The Rotex while effective, is not a pleasure to use and can be rather difficult. The ETS EC 125 or 150 on the other hand is a joy to operate and with a vac is nearly dust free. I started with the RO125 as my first sander, and have not used it once since I bought the ETS EC 125/3.

Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2020, 11:24 AM »
I’ll second the recommendation of going to a dealer and sampling your considerations.  I don’t find the RO150 cumbersome or tiring (save for using it in rotex mode for extended periods, but that’ rare for me), others do.  You’ll likely know immediately what you prefer as far as weight, ease of use, speed of removal, etc., keeping in mind that you already have a sander for smaller pieces/vertical work, etc.   

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 188
Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2020, 11:31 AM »
I went from leaning towards the Rotex to the ETS EC but now think I am back to the 6" Rotex.  As a previous post mentioned I always have my Dewalt for small jobs anyway.  I don't currently have any type of belt sander so I can kill two birds with one stone with the Rotex.

Rotex is a two-handed tool most of the time and IMHO, not a good choice for general sanding, despite it having a lot of flexibility that comes from both rotary and random orbital actions being available. It's bigger, heavier and not balanced well for one-handing which is necessary for a lot of general sanding duties. I only pull mine out when it has a specific advantage or purpose.

The best value right now is the 5" ROS that can also take the 6" pad and abrasives. If I were buying another sander, that's what I'd choose because there are times when the smaller setup would be useful to me...both of my Festool sanders are 6" which covers the majority of my work, but the smaller setup would benefit my guitar work a lot.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

SCM MiniMax S315WS, FS350, MM16, Camaster Stinger II SR-44 CNC

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 272
Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2020, 12:17 PM »
Even though I love my RO150 (a lot!) I do agree with the others above.

I don't really think it is that hard to use, except when I need to sand above my head. I bought it when I was building my house and had many large surfaces of very rough wood to sand. It is unbeatable for that.

But for more subtle jobs I always turn to my ETS EC 150/3. At the time I didn't know you could add a 150 mm pad to the ETS EC125. If I had known, I probably would have bought that sander. Well, I am in for a rematch, because the ES-ETS 125 seems to be in my stars if I may believe my wife...  [cool]

Offline hammy

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2020, 09:05 PM »
It's with a significant amount of shame I say I bought a Bosch GET75-6N today.  There were a number of reasons for this and I really appreciate all the feedback I have gotten from everyone.

1) They had a $75 discount on all purchases over $500 so with the Bosch vacuum hose I was right at $500 CAD all in
2) I do not have a belt sander or polisher so the dual action sander will meet a few of my needs at once
3) A lot of the feedback reinforced the need for a Festool vac and when I started my search I wasn't really counting on that
4) All my sanding to date has been on the bench so I have a nice stable surface for no need of overhead or otherwise hard to handle sanding surfaces
5) I am a 100% hobby woodworker and couldn't justify the investment at this point, I can buy several other decent tools with the $1,500 I saved over the Festool with dust extraction

Again thanks everyone, a lot of awesome feedback but in the end I just couldn't make the jump. 

Offline rvieceli

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2020, 10:36 PM »
@hammy

congrats on your purchase.

You still would benefit from a variable speed vac. Please take a look at the Bosch VAC090AH.

it's a quality vac, HEPA and auto clean. Here in the US Home Depot has it for $499. Plus you can attach an L-Boxx to the top.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-9-Gallon-Corded-Wet-Dry-Dust-Extractor-Vacuum-with-Auto-Filter-Clean-and-HEPA-Filter-VAC090AH/303322609#product-overview

Ron
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 06:17 AM by rvieceli »

Offline Stan Tillinghast

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #51 on: December 25, 2020, 02:25 AM »
No shame at all, Hammy. Don’t go away, there’s plenty to learn here, as I find every day.

Offline Cypren

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2020, 02:40 AM »
Don't count on it. The suction of Festool vacs is terrible. Common household vacs have better suction, and your shop vac probably also.

This comment confuses me. Festool's rated stats for the CT series are very conservative on paper, but in practice their extractors perform extremely well. See e.g. the Toolbox Buzz shootout, which goes to great lengths to quantify the performance of a wide range of dust extractors in controlled tests. The only extractor that out-performed the tested CT 36 AC in raw power (either airflow or water column suction) was the Hilti VC 150-10 XE (which is about $200 more expensive), and it didn't win by much.

I think it's pretty fair to knock Festool's dust extractors for being overpriced given the existence of the Makita line that performs almost as well and has all the same features at 2/3 the cost of the Festool and almost half the cost of the Hilti. But I definitely wouldn't knock them on performance.

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2020, 03:25 AM »
Theres a lot of mentions about fitting a 150 pad on an ETS EC 125, but why cant you put a 125 pd on an ETS EC 150 ? surely its the same fitting, is it the size of the sander body? which would not affect sanding on flat surfaces.

Online Alex

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2020, 03:32 AM »
Don't count on it. The suction of Festool vacs is terrible. Common household vacs have better suction, and your shop vac probably also.

This comment confuses me. Festool's rated stats for the CT series are very conservative on paper, but in practice their extractors perform extremely well. See e.g. the Toolbox Buzz shootout, which goes to great lengths to quantify the performance of a wide range of dust extractors in controlled tests. The only extractor that out-performed the tested CT 36 AC in raw power (either airflow or water column suction) was the Hilti VC 150-10 XE (which is about $200 more expensive), and it didn't win by much.

I think it's pretty fair to knock Festool's dust extractors for being overpriced given the existence of the Makita line that performs almost as well and has all the same features at 2/3 the cost of the Festool and almost half the cost of the Hilti. But I definitely wouldn't knock them on performance.

Over the last 10 years I've had 4 different Festool vacs by now, the CTL 22, CTL 26, the Mini and The Midi. I have used them almost daily in very different circumstances. They are fine as long as you use them connected to a tool, that's what they are made for.

But as soon as you go do some general clean up, you're struggling to get your dirt from the floor with these Festool vacs. And guess what, if you're making things dirty you also have to clean them up so I consider clean up a very important duty for my vacs. Especially if you connect the tubes with a floor nozzle, suction is horrible and it is struggling to pick up larger lumps.

I don't know about your tests, they're always very limited in time and circumstances. My experience isn't. All nice and easy to test a tool when it's brand new, with new bags and filters, but did you know the suction of the Mini and Midi drops to half when the bag is only 1/4 full with dust?

Offline Euclid

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2020, 03:43 AM »
Indeed... the performance of the CT as a dust collector is not in question here: just it's level of "grunt" compared to a good quality domestic vacuum cleaner. I love my CT Midi: it works wonderfully (though it's had so little to do this year, that's just from memory!), but for domestic cleaning duties it cannot compete for effectiveness with my compact Miele.

Now then, my few minutes of escape from the domestic mayhem of Christmas morning are nearly over...
Hope everyone is safe and well and having a happy time!

Offline Cypren

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2020, 04:54 AM »
But as soon as you go do some general clean up, you're struggling to get your dirt from the floor with these Festool vacs. And guess what, if you're making things dirty you also have to clean them up so I consider clean up a very important duty for my vacs. Especially if you connect the tubes with a floor nozzle, suction is horrible and it is struggling to pick up larger lumps.

I think the confusion here may be the difference between suction and airflow. For scooping up lightweight dirt and dust over a wide area, as you've described, airflow reigns supreme. A heavy-duty shop vac like the Ridgid HD 1600 that I use as my general-purpose cleanup vacuum can pull much higher airflow than the Festool vacs, in this case about 200 CFM versus 150 CFM on my CT 26 (assuming both have clean filters). That translates into much better pickup performance over a dispersed area.

However, it doesn't exert as much actual suction (which would be its ability to lift and pull along heavier debris, or to break up blockages inside the hose). My Ridgid in this case pulls about 2/3 of the suction of the Festool in a water-lift test (which is the standard way of measuring suction power). A large part of the reason for the disparity is that the Festool is fully sealed and filtered across its entire mechanism, and the Ridgid is not. Adding filtration lowers airflow but improving sealing increases suction.

I can mount a HEPA filter in the Ridgid so that it has more comparable filtration to the Festool, and it loses about a third of its airflow if I do, which actually drops its performance below the CT. (I've got an anemometer and have actually measured this just for curiosity's sake.) Their motors are roughly equal in power, but the CT has a tighter seal so it's leaking less air from places other than the hose end.

If your argument is just that a HEPA-certified dust extractor isn't as good of a shop vac as a shop vac, then I don't think we have any disagreement. They're tools aimed at different purposes. Festool actually doesn't offer a filter as coarse as the Ridgid's (the coarsest filter they sell for the CT is equivalent to Ridgid's 1 micron "fine dust" filter, which has lower airflow than the default filter), but if they did, you could presumably slot that in and it would get slightly better airflow than the Ridgid since their motors are both 1200W and the seal is tighter. In that case, you'd have turned the dust extractor into a (very expensive) shop vac with both its strengths and weaknesses.
I don't know about your tests, they're always very limited in time and circumstances. My experience isn't. All nice and easy to test a tool when it's brand new, with new bags and filters, but did you know the suction of the Mini and Midi drops to half when the bag is only 1/4 full with dust?

The test I linked specifically accounts for that. They measured them with clean filters and then sucked up about 20 lbs. of drywall dust to deliberately clog the filters and tested them again. The CT 36 showed some of the lowest loss of suction and airflow of any vacuum in the shootout (only Makita did better). They didn't test the Mini/Midi, however, so maybe they have very different performance characteristics than the CT series.

Edited to add: one other factor I forgot to mention is the hose! Larger hoses increase airflow and reduce suction. Large shop vacs (at least in the US; I'm not sure about elsewhere) usually have a 2.5 inch/64mm hose, while the largest Festool hose is 50mm, and most people are going to be using a 27mm or 36mm for their tool hookups.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 05:04 AM by Cypren »

Online Alex

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Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #57 on: December 25, 2020, 05:46 AM »
If your argument is just that a HEPA-certified dust extractor isn't as good of a shop vac as a shop vac, then I don't think we have any disagreement. They're tools aimed at different purposes.

My vacs are not HEPA, I am in Europe and HEPA isn't used much here.

Second, I heavily disagree that they're tools aimed at different purposes. The Festool vacs should be able to handle general clean up like any other vac in its class. Because clean up is part of the building process just like DC of a tool is. Ever tore out a ceiling or chiseled all the plaster of a wall? Common tasks when you work on a home.

Other vacs of other brands can do both without problems, so the Festool vacs should also be able to do this.
 
Like I said about your test, you take one particular vac (an autoclean no less) and use it for one particular situation and then somehow extrapolate that to all Festool vacs. That's not how it works. I am talking about 4 different vacs over a 10 year period, working with them on an almost daily basis in every conceivable situation and they've had to handle almost any type of dust and debris out there. I know a lot better what these vacs can do then those test boys. And I am disappointed. I really like the features and form factor of the Festool vacs, but they just fall behind in suction.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1378
Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #58 on: December 25, 2020, 06:13 AM »
Theres a lot of mentions about fitting a 150 pad on an ETS EC 125, but why cant you put a 125 pad on an ETS EC 150 ? surely its the same fitting, is it the size of the sander body? which would not affect sanding on flat surfaces.

@craigsalisbury75 the 125 pad will NOT fit on the ETS EC 150. The attachment is different. It only works for the 150mm pad on the ETS EC 125

Ron

Offline afish

  • Posts: 370
Re: Which sander to buy first! - First Post in the Forum
« Reply #59 on: December 25, 2020, 07:11 AM »
Don't count on it. The suction of Festool vacs is terrible. Common household vacs have better suction, and your shop vac probably also.

This comment confuses me. Festool's rated stats for the CT series are very conservative on paper, but in practice their extractors perform extremely well. See e.g. the Toolbox Buzz shootout, which goes to great lengths to quantify the performance of a wide range of dust extractors in controlled tests. The only extractor that out-performed the tested CT 36 AC in raw power (either airflow or water column suction) was the Hilti VC 150-10 XE (which is about $200 more expensive), and it didn't win by much.

I think it's pretty fair to knock Festool's dust extractors for being overpriced given the existence of the Makita line that performs almost as well and has all the same features at 2/3 the cost of the Festool and almost half the cost of the Hilti. But I definitely wouldn't knock them on performance.

That was a well done shoot out and I thought it was very objective.  For me the clear winner was the Makita based of performance per dollar and I liked that it was much quieter than the Festool.  However that makita model is no longer available.  Which brings up an interesting question the Hilti which was the top performer looks very much like a Nilfisk made unit.  The new Makita units are also made by Nilfisk and look very similar as is the Mirka units.  So Im wondering if the Makita is now basically a 400 dollar cheaper Hilti unit? Im not a fan of the way the hose wraps around the outside of the vac but I do really like the db performance compared to the Festool. Anyone familiar with the Nilfisk made units by either Makita or Hilti.  The Makita has limited reviews and the biggest complaint I see was the banging noise made by the AC but Im aware of this and as far as I know all the AC units make this popping noise so that doesnt bother me unless the Makitas popping noise is considerably louder than the Festools.