Author Topic: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?  (Read 16726 times)

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Offline Joe Felchlin

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Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« on: May 03, 2018, 09:25 PM »
I’ve been looking at two Guide Rail Squares -
Both appearing to be excellent, quality products.

Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square - FOR Festool -
Currently on sale at ToolNut
and
TSO’s GRS-16 Guide Rail Square

Ergo... Currently, the  price is the same for either -
Sans the Insta-Rail product - Which currently comes with a set of dogs -
Which I have a multitude of already.

At first glance, it looks like an “either/or” choice.
So... Am I missing something?
Which one should I buy?
Why?


Thx ahead for your input and expertise.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 06:29 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: PDC 18/4 Li QuaDrive Cordless Drill Set, C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIG: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 09:31 PM »
Just for clarity, the first square you mentioned is not a Festool product.

Peter

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 252
Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 09:34 PM »
The Insta-rail is not a Festool product.

TSO was first to market with this general pattern and clamp design.


Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 09:42 PM »
Thx Peter and Guys. Good “catch”. I stand corrected.
ToolNut’s nomenclature reads:
Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square + Dog Set For Festool
Ergo... As you clarified - NOT a Festool product.

Nonetheless - Same questions:
Which one should I buy?
Why?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 10:10 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: PDC 18/4 Li QuaDrive Cordless Drill Set, C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIG: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline rj_mccall

  • Posts: 32
Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 09:44 PM »
Buy the TSO.

I’ve had nothing but success with it.

If for some reason you did, it’s nice knowing the company owners are members of the FOG and easily accessible.

Offline Corwin

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 12:01 AM »
Buy the TSO.

I’ve had nothing but success with it.

If for some reason you did, it’s nice knowing the company owners are members of the FOG and easily accessible.

+1 for the TSO.

TSO has worked hard to design and develop their product. They have worked closely with several of the members here who have tested and provided input to their product. The TSO team has, and continues to make upgrades based on what they've learned from their customers.

The other company has copied the TSO product. Then they elected to differentiate their product with their second version, but version 2's new feature looks to me to be pointless and not well thought out.

Offline RDMuller

  • Posts: 314
Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 07:11 AM »
I have had the TSO for close to a year. I have never had to readjust it. Very pleased

Offline Neal W

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 08:30 AM »
Another endorsement for the TSO product.  They are a good company and are active here on the FOG forums.  They are continually looking for ways to improve and innovate as well. 
Turning perfectly good lumber into scrap and sawdust for more than 20 years!

Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 08:47 AM »
Gentlemen:
Thanks for your input and expertise.
You’ve all unanimously affirmed the conclusion/choice -
That I decided on, as well.
TSO’s GRS-16 Guide Rail Sqare it is.
Thx again for your help.
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: PDC 18/4 Li QuaDrive Cordless Drill Set, C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIG: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2018, 09:19 AM »
Good choice on the TSO  8)

Just to clarify and avoid distortion, none of those two guides claim to be from Festool. They both are very similar and works as intended. I am not advocating for the insta-rail guide. I bought the insta-rail version because it was 55$ cheaper and the shipping was free. At the end I saved some money. If I knew at the time what kind of implication Hans (TSO) have on the FOG, I would have opted for the TSO guide. Expecially seeing that there is no one from insta-rail guide beside vendors that ever show on the FOG.

P.S. The dogs provided with the insta-rail (at extra $) are specifically for that guide. They fit into a slot under the guide to help align stock.

I hope I do NOT create any confusion here, happy Friday.

Mario
Mario

Offline Billedis

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2018, 11:04 AM »
Just got my TSO guide rail square and I am simply amazed at how exact it is.  I highly recommend TSO.  Bill

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 415
Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 02:32 PM »
I only know the TSO too and it's quite pricey over here, but I love it.
Because of the antislip strip on the Festool rails, make sure you push the square to the workpiece edge before laying the rail flat. And especially on long cuts, clamp the rail on the opposite side after squaring up to ensure it stays perfectly square. That's assuming you down always use clamps (which I don't).

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 315
Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 03:21 PM »
I have the TSO GRS-16.  Works as advertised, stores in the Systainer.  I also like that it makes it easy to tilt the guide rail to position it where I want.


Online Cheese

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 03:46 PM »
TSO...I’ve had 2 of them since they were first introduced. Excellent product, excellent service, besides the TSO is the real deal the other is just a clone.

Offline Koamolly

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2018, 08:36 PM »
When joining two rails together would these allow the two rails to be aligned parallel with connectors in place quickly.   It seems they are really close to doing that, maybe with some tweaking.  Nice if they did double duty. Just a thought.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2018, 09:39 PM »
When joining two rails together would these allow the two rails to be aligned parallel with connectors in place quickly.   It seems they are really close to doing that, maybe with some tweaking.  Nice if they did double duty. Just a thought.
@Koamolly  - we sure like to promote our GRS-16, but it would be a disservice not to caution you against this approach. If you can't use a 1900 rail for crosscutting full sheets then get yourself the best rail alignment tool out there as of today: BETTERLEY's. One less aggravation in your shop will repay the $ 99.00 cost. Tell'em TSO sent you [smile]

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2018, 09:50 PM »
TSO...I’ve had 2 of them since they were first introduced. Excellent product, excellent service, besides the TSO is the real deal the other is just a clone.

We just came across this barely two day old thread and am amazed at the many efforts made by our customers to support our brand by taking the time to report their experience with us:
it means a very great deal to us personally and economically as well - so Thank you everyone!

We treat your recognition of our work as an obligation on our part to continue to earn your confidence every day - and we truly enjoy doing that!

Eric, Hans and rest of the growing TSO Team
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2018, 11:03 AM »
Hey Hans,

That drill guide looks pretty cool and not to bad on the price. There is a thread here about drill guides. Is it durable?

Offline Jmacpherson

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2018, 11:37 AM »
Used my GRS-16 for the first time in earnest this weekend. Fantastic product and a joy to use.

Squared up a piece of iroko on all 4 sides - 100% square first time.

Used the fs1080/grs-16 to straight edge some oak pieces and once all glued up, made 4 cuts and all sides and corners were the same measurement.

Only downside to the TSO square is it means I'm going to have buy a fs800 rail now  ;D

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2018, 02:46 PM »
I love the squares. I have one issue. When using the square with long rail I find it a little fiddly. I find there is a little "sping" in the rail, not the square. Is there a technique that I am missing?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Which Guide Rail Sqare Should I Buy?
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2018, 08:41 PM »
I love the squares. I have one issue. When using the square with long rail I find it a little fiddly. I find there is a little "sping" in the rail, not the square. Is there a technique that I am missing?
@tallgrass - gosh, I'm embarassed to just now see your post. (I found and hopefully fixed a setting in my FOG profile so I don't msis notifiations)
Perhaps we can get Tom Bader or another similarly qualified heavy FESTOOL track saw user to help out on your "Springy guide rail" question.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2018, 09:15 PM »
IT is not a huge deal. It is something I notice with the longer rails. If the rail is in full contact with the cutting surface than applying pressure to the "square" does not necessarily square the rail due to deflection in the extrusion. This is not a design flaw or a difference in the engineering of your square, simply something that I would chalk up to technique. One that I am working to figure out.

Offline Sanderxpander

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2018, 06:12 PM »
As I said above, it's best to only lower the rail on the surface after pushing the square against the workpiece. Keep holding the square in place with a little pressure before dropping the rail (and the anti slip strips) down on the workpiece.

Offline travisj

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2018, 07:13 PM »
IT is not a huge deal. It is something I notice with the longer rails. If the rail is in full contact with the cutting surface than applying pressure to the "square" does not necessarily square the rail due to deflection in the extrusion. This is not a design flaw or a difference in the engineering of your square, simply something that I would chalk up to technique. One that I am working to figure out.

I found that by having the square on the far side of the rail, I can pull the square and rail into position and then gently lay the rail down while applying slight pressure to keep everything tight.  If that makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2018, 10:21 PM »
Interesting. I will have to give that a try.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2018, 11:30 PM »
I have found on the long rails if you push down on the entry side of the rail and release it the 3000 rail will relax.

Tom

Offline Templedentist

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2020, 01:48 AM »
Just received my TSO guide rail square accessory and have tested and tried it for the entire day today. It is very consistent in making obtuse angle cuts. If I shim one side of the square, I can get perfect 90 degree cuts, but I feel I shouldn’t have to do that. I checked everything. Made sure the edge I was registering off was perfectly straight, no sawdust on the edge of the board or square, no sawdust between the square and the guide rail. Even checked the interface between the square and board using a flashlight from underneath to check for gaps. Leaf gauge checked the interface as well. Lowered rail down on the board while keeping the square against the board edge. Checked to make sure the guide rail wasn’t bowed. I give up. Seems others are having success with it. Maybe I’m too picky, but more than a 1/16th off over 16 inches is too far off for me.

While figuring out the problem I discovered only one square that I own is still accurate. Woodpeckers and Starrett squares are off quite a bit. Losing my mind.


Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2020, 08:03 AM »
@Templedentist - reach out to us so we can help you troubleshoot and find the root cause.

email us directly with the name under which your GRS-16 or GRS-16 PE was ordered so we can find you in our database and get in touch with you this weekend.

Mention your FOG handle so we can connect the dots.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2020, 09:35 AM »
@Templedentist,

I'll start by telling you I test TSO products, not only me but the guys in the shop.

That out of the way, where are you located? Asking because at times a second set of eyes helps. If you're near Colorado Springs or Northwest Indiana you're welcome to come by the shops and we'll see if we can help.

We run 4 of the TSO squares. Not a one is off.

Short story made long----

I've been back home the last few weeks, recieved a call this past Tuesday----pieces are off by 1/16" in 22-1/2" The guys checked their technique nothing changed----must be shop gremlins....it wasn't.

Just before I left another cutting table was made. This meant more rails added to the mix. Well, one of them (a 1080) is off at the entry end by a few thousanths of and inch. Not a big deal when marking and droping the rail, but a nightmare when using the TSO square.

I've run into this before (could have been the same rail,it has now been sprayed with red paint), the guys had not. They thought it was them. It wasn't.

Not sure which rail you're using but I offer;

Try sliding the square up the rail about 12", make some test cuts. See if the problem goes away.

Make sure when you set the rail, the grip strips aren't causeing the rail to bind on the work surface.

When checking for square, check parallel and diagonal with at measuring device. Squares are not always the best tool for checking square.

Tom

« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 09:38 AM by tjbnwi »

Offline Templedentist

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2020, 11:00 AM »
During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2020, 11:04 AM »
During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

Todays capital....

One other thing, straightline one edge without the square, use this as your reference edge fir the rest of the cuts.

Tom

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2020, 11:57 AM »
During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

@Templedentist

I've been using the TSO GRS-16 PE for a little while now.

I was disgusted when going to use it the first time - it was as I recall 3/16" off for a x-cut of 48".  Ended up my 55" rail wasn't straight (Makita). I went and checked my other rails and the 55" had to be replaced the others were fine.

Technique is important too (Tom and TSO were helpful on this). Shake and wiggle the rail and square as you approach your line. This assures the square is against the edge of the wood. I also have purchased the TPG parallel guide system - much more accurate than matching anti-chip to cut line.

Look closely, maybe even magnified, at the edges of the GRS. I bought a GRS-16 to use as a second square for the TPG and I had squaring issues using it independently. Was frustrated like you. Ends up there was, per Hans, a bit of residual manufacturing material (looked like dry glue) on a couple edges. Easy to scrape off with a fingernail. Has worked perfectly since.

Mike

Offline Templedentist

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2020, 04:28 PM »
Follow-up question: what kind of accuracy should I aim for? The most recent test using the 5 cut method resulted in an accuracy of 0.0124” (or 1/80th of an inch) over 60”. I think my technique is improving. The video I was sent showed the demonstrator achieving 0.0038” (or 1/260th of an inch) over 60”. Should I stop fussing and make something or keep practicing. I’m building large objects like bunkbeds, dressers, etc...

I’d like to thank Hans for reaching out to me and making sure all my questions and concerns were addressed. I’ll be buying more TSO products in the future. This is the type of company I feel proud to support.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2020, 04:42 PM »
That’s good! Make something.

Offline Sanderxpander

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2020, 04:55 PM »
If I converted that correctly that's one third of a millimeter over a length of 1500mm or so. That's nothing short of amazing to me considering you're manually pushing a powered saw through a chunk of wood. Wood will bend and warp much more than that and even expand or contract from moisture levels. We're not laser cutting acrylic here.

Offline Templedentist

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2020, 05:03 PM »
That’s what I needed to hear. Time to get to work. Thanks

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2020, 05:19 PM »
We shoot for [and get] 0.005 in 48" or less with the rail squares.

The PG's are set to 0.005 parellel or less over 96". 

Nothing worse than trying to assemble with poorly cut parts.

The tolerances above are why the miss cut pieces were noticed. they're so used to looking at humanly perfect parts that 1/16" out in 22.5" jumped out at them without taking a tape measure out.

Tom

Offline gunnyr

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2020, 05:24 PM »
Follow-up question: what kind of accuracy should I aim for? The most recent test using the 5 cut method resulted in an accuracy of 0.0124” (or 1/80th of an inch) over 60”. I think my technique is improving. The video I was sent showed the demonstrator achieving 0.0038” (or 1/260th of an inch) over 60”. Should I stop fussing and make something or keep practicing. I’m building large objects like bunkbeds, dressers, etc...

I’d like to thank Hans for reaching out to me and making sure all my questions and concerns were addressed. I’ll be buying more TSO products in the future. This is the type of company I feel proud to support.

We ain't building rocket ships here!  I have to guard against this sort of perfectionism, if I'm not careful I get wrapped up in it and end up doing nothing....

Be careful with TSO products; like Systainers they don't do well in the dark, they tend to multiply! [big grin]  I strongly recommend the Parallel Guide System to go with the Guide Rail Square, it makes cross cuts fast, accurate, and repeatable.
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
US Marines - UK Wildcats - Cincinnati Reds

Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2020, 11:51 PM »
The TSO GRS-16PE and the TPG parallel guides have been a life saver for me.  I recommend all of TSO’s products. 
TS-75, LR32, OF-1400, TSO GRS16PE,  TSO TPG-20, TPG-30, TPG Adapter

Offline acarl720

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2020, 09:19 PM »
The longest rails in this system are 50" as shown on their website.  What if I wanted something longer than 50"?  How would I do this?

Offline PaulMarcel

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2020, 09:56 PM »
I missed this thread when it was lit... I'd just like to add an anecdote. I received the GRS-16 PE Parallel Edge Guide Rail Square and decided to play with it a little bit. Popped it on a board, crosscut, then checked square. hmm was a hair off (wait until the end...) enough that it would be a deal-breaker for any cross-cuts over, literally, 2 inches. Checked and checked again; it seemed perfect but why was the square saying it was off? Well, did the "two-line" test on the square and the square wasn't. Grabbed a square I trust for checking the others and sure enough, it was dead square. So if you want a guide that can crosscut and verify your square, this is the one. I've actually tested a couple of other crosscut guide attachments (some that went to market, some that didn't) and this is by far the easiest to use and, anecdotally, the most accurate with little effort.

Highly recommended.
Visit my blog for Festool adventures
IG: @PaulMarcel328

Offline gunnyr

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2020, 10:59 PM »
The longest rails in this system are 50" as shown on their website.  What if I wanted something longer than 50"?  How would I do this?

The 50" rail allows you to cut more than half way across a sheet of plywood.  If you need to cut, say 60", simply index the rip guide to cut 36" minus the kerf of the blade, that leaves 60".  Sounds more complicated than it really is.  In this case your guide rail is on the waste side of the cut. 
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
US Marines - UK Wildcats - Cincinnati Reds

Offline acarl720

  • Posts: 3
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2020, 03:25 PM »
Hi Jeff, thanks for the response.  One of the things that drives me nuts in working with the Festool track saw is the metric vs. imperial measurement systems.  Too bad I didn't decide to go metric in the past with all my measurement tools.

The reason that I bring this up is that I previously determined that the track was ~7 5/16" (185 mm) from the back to the cut, so if I butted the track up against a guide, I could get pretty close to what I wanted, all within the conversion error.  This product takes care of that by calibrating the guide and it is independent of the kerf of the saw blade.  For cuts greater than 50" with the TSO product, I need to convince myself that the kerf is an imperial measurement - I checked with my calipers and it seems to be, but the proof is in the cut, which I have not done yet.  And each blade will have a different kerf.  Something to check and keep track of, which I was hoping not to have to do with a tool of this cost.

But I do like what I have seen from it and will consider it.  I did build a DIY system that works pretty well and is consistent as long as 3/4" birch plywood doesn't change size with humidity changes, which I think it doesn't during the time for a single project.

It seems that there should be an extension rail that would take you to something close to 96".


Offline gunnyr

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2020, 03:49 PM »
I tend to mix imperial and metric.  I found that life got simpler when I stopped converting from one to another.  10mm is 10mm and 3/8 is 3/8. 

One of my favorite tools is the Kreg Multi Mark because it has a ruler with both scales on it.
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
US Marines - UK Wildcats - Cincinnati Reds

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2020, 11:13 PM »
The longest rails in this system are 50" as shown on their website.  What if I wanted something longer than 50"?  How would I do this?

@acarl720 - this topic relates to Guide Rail Squares. The cuts you can make with our GRS-16 series are limited in length only by the FESTOOL or Makita guide rail(s) you choose to use.

If, you have questions relating to TSO's Parallel Guide Series, TPG-50 Set complete, or subsets of it, please provide specifics of your applcation on a thread pertaining to thatproduct line so we can responde appropriately.

We look forward to hearing more!

Hans