Author Topic: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?  (Read 16508 times)

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6255
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2020, 11:04 AM »
During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

Todays capital....

One other thing, straightline one edge without the square, use this as your reference edge fir the rest of the cuts.

Tom

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Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 543
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2020, 11:57 AM »
During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

@Templedentist

I've been using the TSO GRS-16 PE for a little while now.

I was disgusted when going to use it the first time - it was as I recall 3/16" off for a x-cut of 48".  Ended up my 55" rail wasn't straight (Makita). I went and checked my other rails and the 55" had to be replaced the others were fine.

Technique is important too (Tom and TSO were helpful on this). Shake and wiggle the rail and square as you approach your line. This assures the square is against the edge of the wood. I also have purchased the TPG parallel guide system - much more accurate than matching anti-chip to cut line.

Look closely, maybe even magnified, at the edges of the GRS. I bought a GRS-16 to use as a second square for the TPG and I had squaring issues using it independently. Was frustrated like you. Ends up there was, per Hans, a bit of residual manufacturing material (looked like dry glue) on a couple edges. Easy to scrape off with a fingernail. Has worked perfectly since.

Mike

Offline Templedentist

  • Posts: 4
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2020, 04:28 PM »
Follow-up question: what kind of accuracy should I aim for? The most recent test using the 5 cut method resulted in an accuracy of 0.0124” (or 1/80th of an inch) over 60”. I think my technique is improving. The video I was sent showed the demonstrator achieving 0.0038” (or 1/260th of an inch) over 60”. Should I stop fussing and make something or keep practicing. I’m building large objects like bunkbeds, dressers, etc...

I’d like to thank Hans for reaching out to me and making sure all my questions and concerns were addressed. I’ll be buying more TSO products in the future. This is the type of company I feel proud to support.

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4768
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2020, 04:42 PM »
That’s good! Make something.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 415
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2020, 04:55 PM »
If I converted that correctly that's one third of a millimeter over a length of 1500mm or so. That's nothing short of amazing to me considering you're manually pushing a powered saw through a chunk of wood. Wood will bend and warp much more than that and even expand or contract from moisture levels. We're not laser cutting acrylic here.

Offline Templedentist

  • Posts: 4
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2020, 05:03 PM »
That’s what I needed to hear. Time to get to work. Thanks

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6255
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2020, 05:19 PM »
We shoot for [and get] 0.005 in 48" or less with the rail squares.

The PG's are set to 0.005 parellel or less over 96". 

Nothing worse than trying to assemble with poorly cut parts.

The tolerances above are why the miss cut pieces were noticed. they're so used to looking at humanly perfect parts that 1/16" out in 22.5" jumped out at them without taking a tape measure out.

Tom

Offline gunnyr

  • Posts: 228
    • Compass Custom Creations
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2020, 05:24 PM »
Follow-up question: what kind of accuracy should I aim for? The most recent test using the 5 cut method resulted in an accuracy of 0.0124” (or 1/80th of an inch) over 60”. I think my technique is improving. The video I was sent showed the demonstrator achieving 0.0038” (or 1/260th of an inch) over 60”. Should I stop fussing and make something or keep practicing. I’m building large objects like bunkbeds, dressers, etc...

I’d like to thank Hans for reaching out to me and making sure all my questions and concerns were addressed. I’ll be buying more TSO products in the future. This is the type of company I feel proud to support.

We ain't building rocket ships here!  I have to guard against this sort of perfectionism, if I'm not careful I get wrapped up in it and end up doing nothing....

Be careful with TSO products; like Systainers they don't do well in the dark, they tend to multiply! [big grin]  I strongly recommend the Parallel Guide System to go with the Guide Rail Square, it makes cross cuts fast, accurate, and repeatable.
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
US Marines - UK Wildcats - Cincinnati Reds

Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2020, 11:51 PM »
The TSO GRS-16PE and the TPG parallel guides have been a life saver for me.  I recommend all of TSO’s products. 
TS-75, LR32, OF-1400, TSO GRS16PE,  TSO TPG-20, TPG-30, TPG Adapter

Offline acarl720

  • Posts: 3
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2020, 09:19 PM »
The longest rails in this system are 50" as shown on their website.  What if I wanted something longer than 50"?  How would I do this?

Offline PaulMarcel

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2020, 09:56 PM »
I missed this thread when it was lit... I'd just like to add an anecdote. I received the GRS-16 PE Parallel Edge Guide Rail Square and decided to play with it a little bit. Popped it on a board, crosscut, then checked square. hmm was a hair off (wait until the end...) enough that it would be a deal-breaker for any cross-cuts over, literally, 2 inches. Checked and checked again; it seemed perfect but why was the square saying it was off? Well, did the "two-line" test on the square and the square wasn't. Grabbed a square I trust for checking the others and sure enough, it was dead square. So if you want a guide that can crosscut and verify your square, this is the one. I've actually tested a couple of other crosscut guide attachments (some that went to market, some that didn't) and this is by far the easiest to use and, anecdotally, the most accurate with little effort.

Highly recommended.
Visit my blog for Festool adventures
IG: @PaulMarcel328

Offline gunnyr

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2020, 10:59 PM »
The longest rails in this system are 50" as shown on their website.  What if I wanted something longer than 50"?  How would I do this?

The 50" rail allows you to cut more than half way across a sheet of plywood.  If you need to cut, say 60", simply index the rip guide to cut 36" minus the kerf of the blade, that leaves 60".  Sounds more complicated than it really is.  In this case your guide rail is on the waste side of the cut. 
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
US Marines - UK Wildcats - Cincinnati Reds

Offline acarl720

  • Posts: 3
Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2020, 03:25 PM »
Hi Jeff, thanks for the response.  One of the things that drives me nuts in working with the Festool track saw is the metric vs. imperial measurement systems.  Too bad I didn't decide to go metric in the past with all my measurement tools.

The reason that I bring this up is that I previously determined that the track was ~7 5/16" (185 mm) from the back to the cut, so if I butted the track up against a guide, I could get pretty close to what I wanted, all within the conversion error.  This product takes care of that by calibrating the guide and it is independent of the kerf of the saw blade.  For cuts greater than 50" with the TSO product, I need to convince myself that the kerf is an imperial measurement - I checked with my calipers and it seems to be, but the proof is in the cut, which I have not done yet.  And each blade will have a different kerf.  Something to check and keep track of, which I was hoping not to have to do with a tool of this cost.

But I do like what I have seen from it and will consider it.  I did build a DIY system that works pretty well and is consistent as long as 3/4" birch plywood doesn't change size with humidity changes, which I think it doesn't during the time for a single project.

It seems that there should be an extension rail that would take you to something close to 96".


Offline gunnyr

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2020, 03:49 PM »
I tend to mix imperial and metric.  I found that life got simpler when I stopped converting from one to another.  10mm is 10mm and 3/8 is 3/8. 

One of my favorite tools is the Kreg Multi Mark because it has a ruler with both scales on it.
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
US Marines - UK Wildcats - Cincinnati Reds

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2020, 11:13 PM »
The longest rails in this system are 50" as shown on their website.  What if I wanted something longer than 50"?  How would I do this?

@acarl720 - this topic relates to Guide Rail Squares. The cuts you can make with our GRS-16 series are limited in length only by the FESTOOL or Makita guide rail(s) you choose to use.

If, you have questions relating to TSO's Parallel Guide Series, TPG-50 Set complete, or subsets of it, please provide specifics of your applcation on a thread pertaining to thatproduct line so we can responde appropriately.

We look forward to hearing more!

Hans