Author Topic: Where did the TS75 go?  (Read 9144 times)

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Offline Wwwsweden

  • Posts: 1
Where did the TS75 go?
« on: April 02, 2021, 08:30 AM »
I have recently ordered a TS75 but now see it is no longer sold by Festool, anyone know what’s happening?
DF500
CTL26E
TS75 (hopefully soon)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Alex

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2021, 08:50 AM »
Nope, no one knows.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2021, 10:04 AM »
Only Festool knows.

Try this topic for more. But basically there is no real answer at this point.


https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/ts75-discontinued/msg637678/#msg637678

Seth

Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 59
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2021, 11:17 AM »
Interestingly, just yesterday I received an in stock notice from US Tool & Fastener for the TS 75. I don't recall signing up for a stock alert, but they did receive a limited amount of them.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 498
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2021, 02:57 PM »
I just went to the site and placed my order too. I hope it does work out.
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PS420 + Base kit
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MFK700 (2)
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TS75

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1047
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2021, 06:30 PM »
Makes we wonder if a replacement is coming. With a new TS55 on the way the 75 is probably not far behind. Too bad they could not improve the rail system.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2021, 06:45 PM »
I actually talked to someone at Festool yesterday.  The shortage of TS-75's is simply supply chain issues.  No re-engineering as a cause.

Peter

Offline SDWW2019

  • Posts: 66
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2021, 06:57 PM »
Too bad they could not improve the rail system.

What is wrong with the rail system and what needs to be improved?

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 498
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2021, 07:40 PM »

What is wrong with the rail system and what needs to be improved?

The only thing I can think of is an anti-tip feature with the saw is tilted, but it's not a deal breaker for sure. The parallel guide will keep it from falling over, but it's not perfect either. It only holds the base flat when the saw is off of the track.
The saws can be adjusted so that they can work with the same splinter guard.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1047
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2021, 09:56 PM »
Too bad they could not improve the rail system.

What is wrong with the rail system and what needs to be improved?

Mafell...it's why I swapped track systems and parted with additional funds for a few of their unique tools.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2895
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2021, 01:20 AM »
I actually like the Festool rails for most cuts vs the Mafell...the metal on metal contact is what I dislike about Mafell. With the new TSO rail connectors, joining Festool rails is not as cumbersome. I do like the rubber strip on Mafell better and the second groove to hold stock next to the cut edge is also a huge bonus. But, Festool is grippier and the wider rail has advantages when using dogs. Just my opinion and everyone's mileage may vary.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2021, 05:28 AM »
Too bad they could not improve the rail system.

What is wrong with the rail system and what needs to be improved?

Mafell...it's why I swapped track systems and parted with additional funds for a few of their unique tools.
The Maffel tracks are better when short and used solely for tracksaws.

The Festool tracks are more universal.
 - the FS/2 rails are stiffer by about 2x, try making a 5000 Maffel rail and it will be too wobbly in the lateral direction so will not cut straight
 - they provide simple and flexible ways to connect the accessories
 - they can suport a friction-less configuration like the TS/TSC55 uses with the plastic cam sliders
 - the anti-splinter strip is from a hard material which is better for clean cuts in laminated chipboard etc. as it presents higher and more localized counter-pressure on the material
 - the distance from the antislip-pads for the second surface is long-enough so that the pressure of the anti-splinter strip is even further increased
 - the plastic sliders are at the right points, avoiding bending moments inside the rail, improving cut squareness consistency

The only real drawbacks is that the FS/2 rails are not really optimal for bevel cuts due to the way how they are super-optimized for clean and precise square cuts. And they are also not suitable for narrow stock - you need 150 mm thick stock to place the metal contact point on the material being cut to get a square cut.

Of course, the Festool rail connectors are simply junk and one needs the Makita ones for good and precise connections. Or TSO ones for self-aligning if Maffel-class precision is sufficient. But the connectors are not really a drawback of the rail system itself. Actually the flexibility of connecting via the track slots - unlike Maffel system - supports reference-edge-aligned connecting where your accuracy is not limited by the rails being exact same shape (hint, they never are).

Here are a couple improvements I would do (did):
 - third anti-slip pad about 1/2" from the "central one", far enough from the edge so it does not take pressure away from the anti-slip strip
 - avoid using the anti-slip pad as a measuring tool, use PGs for that (granted, this is a new invention but convenient connection of PGs is one of the FS/2 rail advantages
 - use Makita connectors + as-high-precision-as-possible engineers straight edge (aka DIN 0 or equivalent)
 - gently file the reference surface on the rib so that any extrusion imperfections can be eliminated (I used an engineers DIN0 straight edge with sandpaper on it for this)

These improvements move the rail system further away from Maffel into metal-engineering accuracy. Basically better than a big CNC in many cases.

In my view the Maffel system IS better out-of-the-box for short (<2000mm) cuts with one or at most two rails where the cleanliness of cut in stuff like chipboard is not a be-all.
The Festool rail system on the other hand is a bit worse to Maffel out-of-the-box especially given the dent-making connectors but once combined with accessories and/or tuned it moves way above where the Maffel is for ever can be as far as accuracy and cut perfection and supportable length of a straight cut. Just the 140-ish mm versus 180-ish mm wideness difference means the FS/2 rails are about 2x as stiff to begin and that can not be compensated in any way. Once you hit that as an accuracy limit, it is game over.

EDIT: thanks Svar
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 02:48 PM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
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Online Cheese

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2021, 10:02 AM »
I'm with JimH2 on this...I also prefer using the Mafell rails. The Festool rail is used with a TSO GRS-16 for crosscuts only.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2401
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2021, 01:40 PM »
...Actually the flexibility of connecting via the track slots - unlike Maffel system - supports reference-edge-aligned connecting where your accuracy is not limited by the rails being exact same shape (hint, they never are).
In Mafell rails the straight edge of the connector butts right against the guide spline. Hence the guide splines of two connected rails are are always perfectly aligned regardless of the rails being exact same overall shape/width.

I think both systems have advantages and you may prefer one over another depending on your work type.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 01:45 PM by Svar »

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2021, 02:43 PM »
In Mafell rails the straight edge of the connector butts right against the guide spline. Hence the guide splines of two connected rails are are always perfectly aligned regardless of the rails being exact same overall shape/width.

I think both systems have advantages and you may prefer one over another depending on your work type.
Ref the connector you are absolutely right, not sure how I missed this. Too much drink I guess.  [blink]

And agree both have advantages. The plus for Festool is strength, flexibility, support for the low-fiction slides and cleaner cuts. While Maffel is smaller/lighter, has a better connector system and the rubber strip is better for non-ideal-but-great cut quality.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
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Offline turner66

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2021, 11:13 AM »
Interestingly, just yesterday I received an in stock notice from US Tool & Fastener for the TS 75. I don't recall signing up for a stock alert, but they did receive a limited amount of them.

Thanks for that heads up, much appreciated. I ordered Friday when i saw this and got confirmation via phone call this morning that my order had been processed and that they did have some in stock and mine would ship either today or tomorrow.  Just in time for a project where it will be most helpful.

Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 59
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2021, 12:46 PM »
@ turner66

You're welcome!

I like passing on stuff like that, especially on a forum that so far seems to be a bunch of really cool folks helping each other.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2021, 02:56 PM »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 498
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2021, 05:10 PM »
Interestingly, just yesterday I received an in stock notice from US Tool & Fastener for the TS 75. I don't recall signing up for a stock alert, but they did receive a limited amount of them.

Thanks for the heads up, mine came today.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 990
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2021, 05:57 PM »
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline turner66

  • Posts: 2
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2021, 12:01 AM »
@ turner66

You're welcome!

I like passing on stuff like that, especially on a forum that so far seems to be a bunch of really cool folks helping each other.

Sure enough, my TS75 and guide rail showed up today and I've calibrated both it and my TS55 to all my existing rails and they are now fully interchangeable.

Offline Coen

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Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2021, 02:49 PM »
Nope, no one knows.

Really  [cool]

So?  [poke]

I have to protect my sources  [wink]

Honourable  [wink]
Given that the TS 75 quietly was removed from their website I don’t really expect a TS 75 reappear anyhow. A HK XX saw, a TS 8X/6X to fill the gap a bit maybe. Given that Festool and a late Makita saw was one of very few who had 210mm blades on very, very rarely sold saws and the TS 75’s high price point didn’t help either.

It going to be exciting to see what they will launch.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7476
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2021, 04:16 PM »
I doubt even Festool knows what's going on right now.

Hey, it's not their fault and they don't have control. They just want to make tools and sell them, but the government says, no, you can't, people might get sick.

What I do find strange is that they just pull the TS75 page from their website instead of adding a banner saying production is on hold due to corona.

Offline pmctool

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2021, 07:40 PM »
This is the word from Festool on December 30, 2020

Note:  In response to end-consumer inquiries, feel free to communicate the following:

Festool is currently experiencing an interruption in the supply of the TS 75 Plunge Cut Track Saw (items # 575389 and 575390) and the HK 55 Track Saw (items # 561756 and 575085).  While we are working to satisfy as many current open orders as possible, we are unable to fulfill new orders for the near future.  During this period, we are working to increase available inventory of the TS 55 Plunge Cut Track Saw, TSC 55 Cordless Plunge Cut Track Saw, as well as the HKC 55 Cordless Track Saw.

We at Festool sincerely apologize for this interruption in supply for these items.  We look forward to continuing to provide the highest quality tools possible.
   
   

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 990
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2021, 06:54 PM »
Of all things to surface, and the TS 75 is still completely erased from Festool’s website(s) there’s a very rare opportunity to see, even less the chance of buying a pre-owned TS 75 here.

It happened today, and it’s a US model for 110V - A voltage that kind of doesn’t exist here.. in the UK I understand there’s 110V on some building sites, but that’s the closest I know of. 3 phase 230V or 400V is the default here on sites.

$365 if anyone are curious.
Courtesy to the photo belongs to the owner of the TS 75.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7476
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2021, 02:13 AM »
It happened today, and it’s a US model for 110V - A voltage that kind of doesn’t exist here.. in the UK I understand there’s 110V on some building sites, but that’s the closest I know of. 3 phase 230V or 400V is the default here on sites.

That's a UK site plug.

Offline Coen

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2021, 05:32 AM »
But what is it doing in Norway?

Offline danny l

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2021, 03:24 PM »
festool needs the production line of the ts75. the production odf the ts 55 is 8 months behind due to failed electronics. the main suplier could not deliver, the new had a foult rate of 90%
Festool: ATF 55 EB+, PS 300EQ +,OF1010 EBQ +, EHL 65 E +, TDD 12MH 3Ah +, T 18+3 5.2Ah +, Sortainer Sys 3 sort 4 (for my drill and screw bits), RO 125
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Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2021, 03:33 PM »
But what is it doing in Norway?

Powertools like people want to go enjoy the beauty of Norway.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 990
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2021, 04:01 PM »
But what is it doing in Norway?

Powertools like people want to go enjoy the beauty of Norway.

- And it’s close to its home country  [big grin]
From time to time we can see the odd things. Last time I saw similar it was a Breville Oracle espresso machine (“Sage” in Europe) sold with a beast of a transformer (230-110V) [blink]

Most are home move items from typically UK or US. My Festool boom arm was purchased new outside New York somewhere, then brought home along with loads of hand tools (Lie Nilsen, Japanese chisels and so on) The seller that brought it here was an artist making a living from art in woodworking and painting. I don’t get why people move appliances, electric tools and such, unless it’s the same voltage to where you move. Cars and boats I can see, as you can double the sale or purchase price from the US to here.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1046
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2021, 03:27 AM »
If you want a bigger saw that will run on your Festool track I think you have to consider the Makita HXS10 cordless 9 1/4".  It's 3 3/8" depth of cut on the track will let you gang cut a stack of four 3/4" sheets of ply.  It will almost cut a 4x4 when off the track.  Actually the offcut is ready to fall but there will be splinters.  Another 1/16" blade size would do it but it's not there.  I would still use it for that.

For me it looks like a better deal than the 75 first because of the huge depth of cut.  It's a "normal" cordless circ saw when off the track, though the blade is on the right.  And it's a track saw.

The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2021, 05:07 PM »
Not really. The HK85 exists...

Also; what's with all the funny units?

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2021, 04:45 PM »
Just a bit of a head up from non-Festool situation in DE/CZ/Europe.

A friend who works/has a small series electronics production (security, internet of things etc.) business was saying there is a HUGE electronics parts supply chain chaos going on now with delivery dates that were in weeks now going into 1/2 year and more AND deliveries being committed but NOT fulfilled randomly.

He was talking not of the high-end parts like chips /there is a shortage there too but those are just more expensive/ but the "simple" things like capacitors, power diodes, etc.

Per him right now, unless you are a true mass customer buying in millions $, basically no one can be trusted to deliver what is promised even when paid up front. Suppliers which were normally reliable delay shipments randomly as there is apparently a "bidding war" in Asia where local manufacturers are over-paying for specific parts so companies who had long-term contracts are being screwed over with paid orders being refunded etc. and the produce sold at multiples cost to whoever comes with more $.

The producers can make more buck by selling opportunistically to a higher bidder and paying the penalties than honoring their contracts.

Their company was now forced to operate in a way they first order parts for full expected production runs MULTIPLE times from multiple alternate suppliers with the hope that enough orders will be fulfilled.

THEN - after they know what stuff actually arrived - they do a "hackaton" to re-design the product so it can me made from the parts they managed to acquire. Flipping the normal design-prototype-order-parts-produce on its head.

As this is going on for 1/2 year plus now, I would expect every manufacturer has reacted by stocking-up to reduce the risk which makes the situation even worse in a vicious circle..


They do custom stuff, so they can kinda get away with this.
I imagine Festool needs way, way higher levels of consistency and reliability, so they are screwed basically. And knowing Germans, plus that they do not have a "Chinese arm" ... I would expect they did not pursue the "rep with wades of cash roaming suppliers to overpay for parts" solution until too late if at all.


Knowing German culture, I would expect Festool reaction was initially to "ride out the storm" and to react not tactically (like the Chinese do by over-paying on a flip) but strategically.
Like to change strategy for more in-house manufacturing in future and expanded component stock levels. Stocking 5 years worth of capacitors is trivial as you can fit a million in an 50 pound box ...IF you know their availability is a concern.


Friend basically said that his Father has not seen such a crazy situation since the Cold War times when there were random component embargoes floating around.


All in all, to me it would indicate Festool is getting burned for not having manufacturing presence in China while at same sourcing generic components parts from there where they cannot dynamically switch suppliers.

/no insider info, but it just so fits in place it is scary/
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 04:48 PM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8589
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2021, 05:14 PM »
In the same vein, I’ve been waiting for some PC board connectors to arrive since September 2020...every month they say “should arrive within the next 30-45 days.” 

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 426
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2021, 05:38 PM »
In the same vein, I’ve been waiting for some PC board connectors to arrive since September 2020...every month they say “should arrive within the next 30-45 days.”

It's like the contractors in "The Money Pit", but a little less nefarious.  [unsure]

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 289
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2021, 06:23 PM »
The same "supply chain" story seems to come up in many different fields, in many cases it is quite disruptive to all type of manufacturing, building, etc.

Obviously the pandemic and especially the consequent lockdowns caused some of it due to loss of work hours, but it seems to me that there has also been a lot of mismanagement, both in terms of cancelling orders at the start of the pandemic (e.g. most car companies, at least in the U.S. & Canada cancelling their orders for electronics) and now with the contract / spot pricing shenanigans as companies try to buy products that have already been sold or committed to somebody else.

Transportation issues are adding to the problems, these are slowly getting sorted out but generally at much higher cost than before the pandemic.

There is nothing to be proud of here.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 426
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2021, 06:28 PM »
Obviously the pandemic and especially the consequent lockdowns caused some of it due to loss of work hours, but it seems to me that there has also been a lot of mismanagement, both in terms of cancelling orders at the start of the pandemic (e.g. most car companies, at least in the U.S. & Canada cancelling their orders for electronics) and now with the contract / spot pricing shenanigans as companies try to buy products that have already been sold or committed to somebody else.

There is nothing to be proud of here.

Sorta like the rental car companies who cancelled orders and/or sold off inventory last year and now seem to be caught with their shorts down as the country is opening back up?

So many frustrating things about the current situation.  "There is nothing to be proud of here." is a pretty apt way of putting it.

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 289
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2021, 08:46 PM »
Way off topic from the TS75 (a really nice saw) but even so...

The global mismanagement is so broad across government, private business, education, etc. it makes me wonder about the current generation of managers.

For many years things have been going pretty well in most places, with some huge exceptions such as Hong Kong being crushed by the CCP and ongoing corruption, disease and squalor in most of Africa.  Most of our "problems" in the U.S., Canada, the UK, continental Europe and other places in the First world have been created and exacerbated by petty discord, politics, and media.

Could it be that the current generation of managers has had such a relatively easy time of it that they can't actually manage when confronted with a crisis? 

Or maybe they are following each other - one hears that orders are being cancelled, so he cancels his orders, somebody else hears about that, they cancel theirs, and so on.

Like lemmings to the sea.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1439
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2021, 09:59 PM »
Everything got leveraged to "Just in Time" at a global supply chain.  Folks deciding for a long time they don't want to have any inventory, and they can save a few cents going to the other side of the world.  It was a system waiting to collapse.  It just took a year of COVID for it to catch up, much of this started at the beginning.  It just takes time for small issues to really start adding up.

So few companies/people running them think about the "what ifs" such as what if you can't get stuff, plants shut down, shipping is crippled...  Now they are stuck.

Some companies/people are fine, as they planned ahead.

Offline linnlp12

  • Posts: 73
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2021, 06:05 PM »
Saw one at Berlands in Palatine IL 2 weeks ago, if you are looking.

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 44
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2021, 06:16 PM »

All in all, to me it would indicate Festool is getting burned for not having manufacturing presence in China

And long may it continue. But the rot has already set in. The SysRock is made in China.

I've always been a big fan of Hilti tools - some of my European-made stuff is almost 20 years old, and still works as well as the day I bought it. But my 3-year-old SF6H 22-volt combi ?? VERY expensive (way more $$$$ than a Festool) - but already on its 4th chuck, its 2nd motor, its 3rd trigger switch and its 2nd control board. Made in China. Go figure .....

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2021, 02:01 PM »
So few companies/people running them think about the "what ifs" such as what if you can't get stuff, plants shut down, shipping is crippled...  Now they are stuck.

Get in trouble as a big business... get a bailout funded by taxes... So euh... the incentive is not really there ...

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2338
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2021, 09:24 AM »
As part of an industry hit hard by Covid and supply chain issues, I can say, yes, these types of issues show the short comings of just- in- time inventory systems when all the #$%# hits the fan at once.
 To add to Semi-Conductor shortage woes, I'm told that there was a fire at a plant in Japan , the plant sold most of its production to the Auto Industry, so we're down a big supplier that normally catered to us in the first place.
 Add to that, Covid shutting down plants, we're now seeing parts messages from Factory that certain plants that made electronic components for us are shut down due to Covid.  Didn't see that message all last year from the supplier plants, just the main factory.
 No release dates and no order fill dates make it really hard to tell customers when their stuff, no matter what it is, will be getting to them.
 And don't get us started on Lumber Prices..... [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2021, 12:46 PM »
Covid never shut down any plant. Only governments did (and do).

Yes, if you print funny money... prices will rise.

The Dutch average home increased an average gross year salary last year...
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 12:53 PM by Coen »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 498
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2021, 04:54 PM »
We are starting to see shortages of hardware like hinges and drawer guides and some suppliers are limiting the amount of sheet goods you can purchase.
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DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
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Offline linnlp12

  • Posts: 73
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2021, 08:02 PM »
Agreed.  My local Rocklers got some Blum hinges in stock and loaded up on them.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2338
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2021, 01:04 PM »
Covid never shut down any plant. Only governments did (and do).

Yes, if you print funny money... prices will rise.

The Dutch average home increased an average gross year salary last year...
. Not true, the plant shut itself down due to Covid- they were not directed by any government to do so.  Hopefully they will resume production soon.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2021, 03:52 PM »
Covid never shut down any plant. Only governments did (and do).

Yes, if you print funny money... prices will rise.

The Dutch average home increased an average gross year salary last year...
. Not true, the plant shut itself down due to Covid- they were not directed by any government to do so.  Hopefully they will resume production soon.

The plant shut itself down? Lol what.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 498
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2021, 06:51 PM »
Covid never shut down any plant. Only governments did (and do).

Yes, if you print funny money... prices will rise.

The Dutch average home increased an average gross year salary last year...
. Not true, the plant shut itself down due to Covid- they were not directed by any government to do so.  Hopefully they will resume production soon.

The plant shut itself down? Lol what.
I would assume he means the management? Not the actual plant itself, it just sits there silently...lol
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2338
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2021, 09:57 AM »
Covid never shut down any plant. Only governments did (and do).

Yes, if you print funny money... prices will rise.

The Dutch average home increased an average gross year salary last year...
. Not true, the plant shut itself down due to Covid- they were not directed by any government to do so.  Hopefully they will resume production soon.

The plant shut itself down? Lol what.
I would assume he means the management? Not the actual plant itself, it just sits there silently...lol
  Exactly-  And it's no laughing matter for many of us stuck without the supply chain working correctly- I don't share anyone's laughter on this subject at all.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline frahengeo

  • Posts: 6
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2021, 02:20 PM »
Hi Folks,

Just so I understand...the lack of TS75 inventory is due to supply chain issues brought on by 1+ year of covid?  Even though the TS55REQ is supposedly being/has been redesigned, the TS75 will not undergo the same redesign.  I this correct?

Thanks

Adam

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7476
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2021, 02:41 PM »
I don't share anyone's laughter on this subject at all.

Me neither. This whole ordeal and how it is handled is devastating to the functionality of our society. And if you destroy the functionality of our society, that's going to have dire consequences.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 806
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2021, 04:52 PM »
There was an enlightening article in today’s New York Times about the supply constraints. Basically the extreme focus of companies on Just-in-Time with less or no inventory on site has freed a lot of capital that has been used to buy back shares (and increase dividends), that otherwise could have been spent on strengthening a preferably local supply chain. That last bit explains why Chinese and Far Eastern companies haven’t suffered as much as the Western ones, bc their supply chains are pretty close to their manufacturing/completion facilities.


So — it has been plain and simple greed and capitalism that has caused this mess. Nothing new here.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2021, 04:59 PM »
Hi Folks,

Just so I understand...the lack of TS75 inventory is due to supply chain issues brought on by 1+ year of covid?  Even though the TS55REQ is supposedly being/has been redesigned, the TS75 will not undergo the same redesign.  I this correct?

Thanks

Adam
The TS55 update is clearly tied to the TSC Anti-Kickback version so the same blades are supported. It must have been in the cards for a long time, well before the Covid situation came about.

Festool has a strict policy of not changing characteristics of tools without a model change. If anything, the newer models being only introduced allow for adjusting the components/design to proactively address supply issues via slight modifications.
On the other hand, tools which are in long-term low-rate production (like the TS75 or the HK55) have cost-optimized supply chains which are much harder to address.

I would also not say the supply chain issues are from "1-year of Covid". Thety are not, at least not directly. They main issues are from the chaos brought by the initial Covid impact which forced the traditionally "buyer's B2B market" to switch overnight into a "seller's B2B market".

This is why situation is not improving even after Covid restrictions are mostly behind us now -> what we see now is the impact of companies *reacting* to the chaos by stocking up which in turn amplifies the shortages in a vicious cycle.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
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Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2021, 05:10 PM »
Exactly-  And it's no laughing matter for many of us stuck without the supply chain working correctly- I don't share anyone's laughter on this subject at all.

It isn't. But it's wrong to hide everything behind 'muh colona' while 'dumb politician' is to blame for most of it. They avoid any risk now regardless of future costs just so they won't get blamed sooner...

I've had colleagues that had it (supposedly; half of them don't believe it themselves); for working age population the danger of covid is on the same scale as being run over by a car on the way to work. No plant was ever shut down for that...

The national debt is being pushed into the sky, money is printed at an insane level, a year is stolen from our youths, suicides are way up, domestic violence is way way way up, freedom of demonstration is limited, suicides are up and all the big social media "platforms" are enforcing a fake news narrative, etc. etc. Any of those on their own tend to be worse in the long term than the 'black scenario' of covid...

I can live perfectly fine without mass gatherings or without speaking anyone for days, but I have friends who are quite different. The psychological effect on them is huge. Just like the bullsh*t curfew we had ticked me off while not affecting others in any way.

Either way; some are now tempted to take their own live. Some others might be tempted to take someone with them on that endeavor. Was this risque ever taken into account for muh covid lockdown? The short answer is; no it wasn't.

Either way, this forum is not the place, so this will all just get cut away anyway. But don't blame a virus for the response of governments

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2021, 05:14 PM »
There was an enlightening article in today’s New York Times about the supply constraints. Basically the extreme focus of companies on Just-in-Time with less or no inventory on site has freed a lot of capital that has been used to buy back shares (and increase dividends), that otherwise could have been spent on strengthening a preferably local supply chain. That last bit explains why Chinese and Far Eastern companies haven’t suffered as much as the Western ones, bc their supply chains are pretty close to their manufacturing/completion facilities.

So — it has been plain and simple greed and capitalism that has caused this mess. Nothing new here.

Well, this is about the same disease as what I discussed above; placing profits here and now above any future risk.

I've seen a factory were regularly some $10 part isn't in stock and it results in 30 people doing nothing for two hours. But the beancounters insisted on stocking more of the said crucial part being too expensive.  [huh] They live in an Excel theory, not in reality.

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 139
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2021, 06:06 PM »
I see a lot of criticism of companies for outsourcing their supply chains to cheaper countries without an examination of why it’s cheaper to get things from the other side of the world than get them at home. Western countries collectively passed a combination of labor and environmental laws that made all but the highest-margin manufacturing globally uncompetitive. But then, crucially, they didn’t go the rest of the way and put tariffs on imports from countries that don’t meet these standards because the public likes getting their cheap consumer goods so long as the people suffering to make them are nameless foreigners somewhere else.

So of course all of the domestic manufacturers were killed off. You simply can’t compete in a country with even moderate labor and environmental standards with businesses that can pay people pennies per hour and dump all the toxic waste they want into the environment. And because this affects entire supply chains, domestic production in low-standards countries gets more and more efficient as more parts of the supply chain localize, and production in high-standards countries gets less and less.

I could lob blame at politicians for this, but they’re just doing what the voters want them to: keep serving up cheap consumerism, with the costs paid by somebody else.

Offline allthegearnoidea

  • Posts: 18
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2021, 06:11 PM »
I see a lot of criticism of companies for outsourcing their supply chains to cheaper countries without an examination of why it’s cheaper to get things from the other side of the world than get them at home. Western countries collectively passed a combination of labor and environmental laws that made all but the highest-margin manufacturing globally uncompetitive. But then, crucially, they didn’t go the rest of the way and put tariffs on imports from countries that don’t meet these standards because the public likes getting their cheap consumer goods so long as the people suffering to make them are nameless foreigners somewhere else.

So of course all of the domestic manufacturers were killed off. You simply can’t compete in a country with even moderate labor and environmental standards with businesses that can pay people pennies per hour and dump all the toxic waste they want into the environment. And because this affects entire supply chains, domestic production in low-standards countries gets more and more efficient as more parts of the supply chain localize, and production in high-standards countries gets less and less.

I could lob blame at politicians for this, but they’re just doing what the voters want them to: keep serving up cheap consumerism, with the costs paid by somebody else.

Not to mention the complacency, sense of privilege and entitlement of workers in Western countries that makes the workforce's work ethic so much lower and uncompetitive. Pay them the same wage, give them the same benefits, give them the same environmental laws and pound for pound people in less economically developed and less snowflake sympathising countries would still be more competitive because they understand a job is a privilege not a right.

Online SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 9620
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2021, 11:17 PM »
This seems to be drifting into politics and inflammatory topics.

Lets not.



Seth

Offline OzarkNerd

  • Posts: 30
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2021, 09:44 AM »
Hi Folks,

Just so I understand...the lack of TS75 inventory is due to supply chain issues brought on by 1+ year of covid?  Even though the TS55REQ is supposedly being/has been redesigned, the TS75 will not undergo the same redesign.  I this correct?

Thanks

Adam

A large dealer told me that Festool told them that they had to scale back production based on various covid factors.  Because the 55 outsells the 75 significantly, they decided to devote all available resources towards the 55 until the end of the year so the 75 is temporarily out of production.  Not in any way linked to being "discontinued" or redesigned or anything like that.   If you really need one, like I did, keep your eye on festoolrecon.com: I just snagged a 75 for $505 10 minutes ago.  Been watching for about 3 weeks and this was the first one that has come up there but I'm sure there will be more.  That same dealer told me that the earliest they expect to get new 75s is Dec 2021 or Jan 2022 and I didn't want to wait that long!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7476
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2021, 12:41 PM »
A large dealer told me that Festool told them that they had to scale back production based on various covid factors.  Because the 55 outsells the 75 significantly, they decided to devote all available resources towards the 55 until the end of the year so the 75 is temporarily out of production.  Not in any way linked to being "discontinued" or redesigned or anything like that.

What I don't understand is why they can't communicate about that.

This is a global crisis, everybody is insecure or plain scared about what's happening. When it comes to buying stuff, we just wonder what's going on when something's not available.

Festool, why can't you just communicate if something's not available? No, you pull the page from the website and leave everybody wondering. Is it realy too difficult to add a little banner on the product page like "tempororaily unavailable due to covid measures, will be back soon".

We're in a global crisis. They keep telling us we're all in this together, and that we should pull together.

Communication on all levels is essential.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 990
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2021, 12:50 PM »
Very true, and seconded Alex
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Offline OzarkNerd

  • Posts: 30
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2021, 01:29 PM »
Communication on all levels is essential.

We definitely had "all levels" involved here.  Festool told the dealer.  The dealer told me.  I told the web.  The web told you.   [big grin]  I'm kidding of course, obviously it would be nice to have a blurb about it on the main Festool site.  But I can also see how competitive businesses wouldn't want to show their full hand and give away potentially a year's worth of sales to the other guy, etc.

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 139
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2021, 02:17 PM »
Festool, like a lot of tool companies, seems to strongly prefer the model where they communicate with dealers and dealers communicate with customers. If I had to guess, this is especially true for bad news, because getting it from a human rather than a web page means that they have an opportunity to upsell or cross-sell you to another product if the one you're looking for isn't an option.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7476
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2021, 02:25 PM »
Ah, so psychological tricks to sell one tool more or less are more important than imbuing trust in your customers? Hmm.

I hope Festool doesn't think in such a way and that their method to handle this is mostly the result of laziness and negligence.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 498
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2021, 06:44 PM »
Every time some big problem/mistake comes up at work, because of something that someone knew, but others didn't, out comes my comment. "The most important thing we have is free....Information, How about we share it?"

It always seems to me, that even bad news is better than what the imagination can come up with or worry about. At least you can work with or plan around the truth.

I got a TS75 from US Tool & Fastener a few weeks ago. I have no idea how many they got ahold of, or if they still have them? but there apparently are a few still around.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2021, 06:26 AM »
Well, the TS 55 is the gateway drug into Festool. I guess most TS75 owners already owned a TS55. So it kinda makes sense to prioritize the TS55 if confronted with a parts shortage.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: Where did the TS75 go?
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2021, 07:59 AM »
I believe the biggest issue is that Festool themselves do not really know how the situation will develop.

As a result, they do not want to commit to "will be available at" whatever the date as it may not come to pass.

It is annoying for a brand fan, but I can understand such a position. Been there, done that, got burned, not gonna do again ...


Festool is essentially saying "if you need it, look elsewhere". I think that is a fair message.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
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AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
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