Author Topic: When did this happen?  (Read 13528 times)

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Offline Coen

  • Posts: 956
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2021, 06:32 PM »

Ya, like working on a British motorcycle on a Friday night and finding you suddenly need a couple of Whitworth wrenches. Well that bike is now down until Monday evening at the earliest because Sears doesn't sell Whitworth and the only other sources are Snap-on or MAC Tools and that's providing they have the Whitworth items on the truck.
 
If every fastener goes the Torx route...I'm a happy guy.  [big grin] 

Square drive are a nuisance and I only use them on Spax fasteners because the Philips alternative is an even larger nuisance.  [mad]

There are square drive Spax?  Only ever seen torx and philips.  What annoys me is when you get to the smaller screws, they are philips only.

Of course your sears still being open is even a bigger surprise.  I did hit the tool department on the one near me before it's death hard. I have all the torx and external torx impact bits I will ever near.  Was never a Sears fan, but they did have good tool options with good store hours.

There are Spax with phillips?

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Offline Coen

  • Posts: 956
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2021, 10:45 PM »
as a brit i use pozi philips sloted and torx on a reguarlar basis

torx in the workshop.  best driver head ever

pozi on most general use building site screws

philips for some electrical aplications and drywall

and sloted (absolute >family friendly<) rest of electrical and old screws that have been stuck in the wall since the stone age....

ABB here sells the flush mounted box (if that is the right word?) with TX/SL combiscrew  [big grin]
This thing;
https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/nl/producten/verdelers/installatiedozen/inbouwdozen/inbouwdozen/md-4050

Their ceilingboxes (the lids) come with PZ/SL screw

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1417
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2021, 11:04 PM »

There are square drive Spax?  Only ever seen torx and philips.  What annoys me is when you get to the smaller screws, they are philips only.

Of course your sears still being open is even a bigger surprise.  I did hit the tool department on the one near me before it's death hard. I have all the torx and external torx impact bits I will ever near.  Was never a Sears fan, but they did have good tool options with good store hours.

There are Spax with phillips?

Oh no, I just went down the rabbit hole with this one.

So looking at the small ones, like #6, #8 screws that are 3/4-1" long and such, have combo square/philips heads.  Some are #2 both, others #2 Philips with #1 square.

Looking at the one Philips box of bigger screws I have, they are "uni-drive", which is SPAX own thing.  It doesn't have the pozi drive markings. And from the website looks to be just #2 philips or square drive.  Funny thing is there renderings show the Pozi tick marks.  A #2 pozi fits ok-ish, but not like a #Philips. Box comes with a philips bit.  Home depot sells them as being philips/square combo drives.

Funny the website doesn't list Philips as a drive option.  They sell 1 Pozi screw in the US.  And looks like they do have square, just never seen them, it too looks to be 1 model of screw.

Also interesting is the boxes for Torx say  T25 Torx    plus  Bit included.    In looking at that now, and reading it differently, I think they are trying to say T25 Torx Plus,   not "Plus a bit".  Which might explain the consumption of torx bits as Milwaukee and dewalt bits for impact drivers are just regular torx.

I'll say this, kill off combo drive screws,  just makes a mess, and does no one drive well.  I kinda wonder now if they are making some screw that is a bit pozi a bit philips and letting it be that.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8461
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2021, 01:21 AM »
Yes @DeformedTree and yes @Coen ...

as I mentioned earlier, the only time I advocate the use of square drive tooling is when using it as a substitution for Phillips tooling. One has to admit this is a creative counterpoint to being forced to use Phillips tooling.  [smile]  The square drives work quite well for these fasteners, certainly better than the Phillips alternative.

Still...I'd prefer Torx.  [big grin]

Here's a shot of some Spax screws, from L to R the drives required are:
#3 Sq or #3 Phillips
#2 Sq or #2 Phillips
#1 Sq or #2 Phillips



« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 01:30 AM by Cheese »

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 956
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2021, 02:06 AM »
Aha

Everything from Spax here is either Torx or Pozidrive. They seem to have some variant on Torx too, with a round hole in the center of the screw.

Anyway, I use Woodies, they are 'just Torx' (some also available in Pozidrive btw).

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1607
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2021, 04:56 AM »
Wow, never seen these before. Must be US specific? Very interesting, thanks for the picture!

Kind regards,
Oliver

Kind regards,
Oliver

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Offline notenoughcash

  • Posts: 114
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2021, 05:26 AM »
as a brit i use pozi philips sloted and torx on a reguarlar basis

torx in the workshop.  best driver head ever

pozi on most general use building site screws

philips for some electrical aplications and drywall

and sloted (absolute >family friendly<) rest of electrical and old screws that have been stuck in the wall since the stone age....

ABB here sells the flush mounted box (if that is the right word?) with TX/SL combiscrew  [big grin]
This thing;
https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/nl/producten/verdelers/installatiedozen/inbouwdozen/inbouwdozen/md-4050

Their ceilingboxes (the lids) come with PZ/SL screw

seen the wera screwdrivers but not the actual scres

have encountered pozi/slot though

PITA.....
turns out that woodworking is 1% making things you'll use, 4% making bespoke high end firewood, 15% cleaning, and 80% looking for the bl**dy thing you just put down
PSC 420 EB, TSC 55 REB, CTL MIDI I

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 956
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2021, 07:00 AM »
as a brit i use pozi philips sloted and torx on a reguarlar basis

torx in the workshop.  best driver head ever

pozi on most general use building site screws

philips for some electrical aplications and drywall

and sloted (absolute >family friendly<) rest of electrical and old screws that have been stuck in the wall since the stone age....

ABB here sells the flush mounted box (if that is the right word?) with TX/SL combiscrew  [big grin]
This thing;
https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/nl/producten/verdelers/installatiedozen/inbouwdozen/inbouwdozen/md-4050

Their ceilingboxes (the lids) come with PZ/SL screw

seen the wera screwdrivers but not the actual scres

have encountered pozi/slot though

PITA.....

Wera has TX/SL combi screwdrivers?  [eek]

I do know lots of brands carry PZ/SL combis, they are often used in miniature circuit breakers and compotents for residential electrical panels in general.

Offline notenoughcash

  • Posts: 114
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2021, 07:42 AM »
as a brit i use pozi philips sloted and torx on a reguarlar basis

torx in the workshop.  best driver head ever

pozi on most general use building site screws

philips for some electrical aplications and drywall

and sloted (absolute >family friendly<) rest of electrical and old screws that have been stuck in the wall since the stone age....

ABB here sells the flush mounted box (if that is the right word?) with TX/SL combiscrew  [big grin]
This thing;
https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/nl/producten/verdelers/installatiedozen/inbouwdozen/inbouwdozen/md-4050

Their ceilingboxes (the lids) come with PZ/SL screw

seen the wera screwdrivers but not the actual scres

have encountered pozi/slot though

PITA.....

Wera has TX/SL combi screwdrivers?  [eek]

I do know lots of brands carry PZ/SL combis, they are often used in miniature circuit breakers and compotents for residential electrical panels in general.

yup.

or they did 2 or 3 years ago.

cant find them now, but will post a link when i do
turns out that woodworking is 1% making things you'll use, 4% making bespoke high end firewood, 15% cleaning, and 80% looking for the bl**dy thing you just put down
PSC 420 EB, TSC 55 REB, CTL MIDI I

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 975
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2021, 07:53 AM »
Yes @DeformedTree and yes @Coen ...

as I mentioned earlier, the only time I advocate the use of square drive tooling is when using it as a substitution for Phillips tooling. One has to admit this is a creative counterpoint to being forced to use Phillips tooling.  [smile]  The square drives work quite well for these fasteners, certainly better than the Phillips alternative.

Still...I'd prefer Torx.  [big grin]

Here's a shot of some Spax screws, from L to R the drives required are:
#3 Sq or #3 Phillips
#2 Sq or #2 Phillips
#1 Sq or #2 Phillips

(Attachment Link)

Your Spax #3 looks very much the same as the bit and pattern i was referring to...
This is very similar in size to PH3, but the bit almost locks to the screw, on the contrary to PH heads..
What Cheese is referring to as in PH3 or Sq3, is the same screw that these two combined looks like, and is the perfect bit for Spax #3:




“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8461
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2021, 10:00 AM »
That might well be right, Cheese. It was a well known quality supplier of fasteners in Norway who adopted these cross bit patterns. I’ve later seen Spax at Bauhaus who has Torx with round tip that extends deeper into the screw head. Very similar, so it might be of German origin.

Found this on the website;

SPAX® is a brand of the ALTENLOH, BRINCK & CO. of Ennepetal, Germany, founded in 1823. SPAX® screws were first introduced to the European market in 1967 as a revolutionary line of multi-material construction fasteners. Today, the SPAX® brand represents a broad selection of engineered fasteners for the construction industry, and symbolizes the highest quality fastening solutions. It’s one of the most recognized brands in Europe!

SPAX® Multi-purpose Construction Screws and PowerLags® were introduced to the U.S. market in 1997. They are sold nationwide through leading home improvement centers, hardware and fastener distribution chains, and in a growing number of lumber and building material dealers. Since 2006, SPAX® fasteners marketed in North America are manufactured in the ALTENLOH, BRINCK & CO. U.S., INC. complex in Bryan, Ohio, which is ISO 9001:2015 Certified.


They also own Rodenhouse & TruFast.

The photo of the bit you posted would be perfect for those Spax #3 Sq./#3 Phillips, as every surface of the bit is engaged or driven.


Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1417
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2021, 10:51 AM »
The packaging of spax in the US says "made in USA or Germany".   Which is it?

Like other things, looks like another case of companies modifying a product for a market instead of just having the market adjust to changes.  No reason for them to have no just kept them as is from Europe.  They could have introduced them as torx only and everyone would have been fine.  Similar, no need to make them to US dimensions, which then then dual dimension the package.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 975
Re: When did this happen?
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2021, 01:16 PM »
That might well be right, Cheese. It was a well known quality supplier of fasteners in Norway who adopted these cross bit patterns. I’ve later seen Spax at Bauhaus who has Torx with round tip that extends deeper into the screw head. Very similar, so it might be of German origin.

Found this on the website;

SPAX® is a brand of the ALTENLOH, BRINCK & CO. of Ennepetal, Germany, founded in 1823. SPAX® screws were first introduced to the European market in 1967 as a revolutionary line of multi-material construction fasteners. Today, the SPAX® brand represents a broad selection of engineered fasteners for the construction industry, and symbolizes the highest quality fastening solutions. It’s one of the most recognized brands in Europe!

SPAX® Multi-purpose Construction Screws and PowerLags® were introduced to the U.S. market in 1997. They are sold nationwide through leading home improvement centers, hardware and fastener distribution chains, and in a growing number of lumber and building material dealers. Since 2006, SPAX® fasteners marketed in North America are manufactured in the ALTENLOH, BRINCK & CO. U.S., INC. complex in Bryan, Ohio, which is ISO 9001:2015 Certified.


They also own Rodenhouse & TruFast.

The photo of the bit you posted would be perfect for those Spax #3 Sq./#3 Phillips, as every surface of the bit is engaged or driven.

(Attachment Link)

Exactly Cheese, they did just that - I have very few fasteners left. They where of so called “outside fasteners” - For that use I liked them much better than Torx, you were able to clean out the screw head easily too. The fit was perfect, and these were mine (and many other pro”s) favourite for use with impacts. I remember I gnarled when my supplier said that they were obsolete, in favour of Torx. I bought a few boxes for stock that time [big grin].

These fasteners could very well be licensed from Spax, they were more expensive than the competition, but very good indeed. There were probably pricing that made them change to Torx.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”