Author Topic: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?  (Read 2912 times)

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Offline kifi

  • Posts: 41
What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« on: November 23, 2022, 05:04 PM »
Hey all

What is your method to install butt hinges on internal doors? I was thinking of using the OF1010 or the MFK700 with a jig like something from Trend (UK). Trend Door Hardware Jig and getting my hands on some copy rings and suitable bit.

Softwood doors.

Cheers
K

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Offline rst

  • Posts: 2851
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2022, 06:06 PM »
I use Porter Cable's time honored jig with 1010 and Milwaukee M18v trimmer.

Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 183
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2022, 06:47 PM »


Doesn't need to be any more complicated than the jig shown in this video.

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 235
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2022, 08:57 PM »
I'll chop out one or two doors. If there's a stick around, it becomes a storypole. More than that and I'll make a template. I did twelve of these carriage doors this summer using this style. I like that the wings do both the doors and jamb, right and/or left-handed. I make templates the way Frank shows here. I made all four hinge wings as one long strip cutting the individual templates apart after applying the door skin with 3M90.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 09:01 PM by Imemiter »
CT-SYS, CT-Midi, HKC55, OSC18, PSC420, OF1010, OF1400, MFK700, ETS125, DTS400, ETS EC150, RAS115, RTSC, CT26, CT VA, T18+3, TID18, CSX, DF700

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10173
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2022, 10:39 PM »
I typically use a 1010, a guide bushing and the MFS.

However if I'm feeling old-school parochial, I'll use a Lie Nielsen butt mortise plane...and that usually has a very calming effect.  [big grin]




These are the kinds of fits you can get with that 1010/MFS combo when you dial it in.



Offline sirhc

  • Posts: 15

Offline kifi

  • Posts: 41
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2022, 07:17 AM »
Thanks guys that is very helpful, particularly the Festool walkthrough link. Wasn't aware of that!

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2851
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2022, 08:03 AM »
Method depends more on quantity, hand chopping and making jigs is fine for a couple residential jobs, if you’re doing commercial installs it’s not feasible

Offline kifi

  • Posts: 41
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2022, 08:40 AM »
I will not have to deal with internal doors much. In the Festool walkthrough article, I am trying to work out how they have held the door, and then the MFS to the door. I do not have an MFT, but do have a worktable with perforated top.

Did they just clamp a block of wood to the table top, and then use the right angle attachments that come with the MFS to clamp to the block of wood? Not sure how I would do this in the field.

EDIT: If I secure the door with those special door stands/floor standing clamps, will the MFS 400 clamp on the door edge with enough stability?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 08:59 AM by kifi »

Offline kifi

  • Posts: 41
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2022, 09:05 AM »
I typically use a 1010, a guide bushing and the MFS.

However if I'm feeling old-school parochial, I'll use a Lie Nielsen butt mortise plane...and that usually has a very calming effect.  [big grin]

(Attachment Link)


These are the kinds of fits you can get with that 1010/MFS combo when you dial it in.

(Attachment Link)

Cheese, do you just clamp the MFS to the door as shown and then route? This is stable enough?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10173
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2022, 09:18 AM »
In the Festool walkthrough article, I am trying to work out how they have held the door, and then the MFS to the door. I do not have an MFT, but do have a worktable with perforated top.

I machined up some longer aluminum angle brackets that allow you to place them further away from where you're routing. That gives you a lot of options for clamp placement.




Here are a couple of photos of the clamping options available with the longer angle brackets.







Offline rst

  • Posts: 2851
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2022, 09:24 AM »
I've also used my MFS system re: Cheese for routing commercial aluminum doors as a commercial locksmith.  Very fast and efficient for one offs.  I too made aluminum angles to make the jig more stable and posted pics some years ago.

Offline kifi

  • Posts: 41
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2022, 09:33 AM »
thanks guys, unfortunately, machining brackets is beyond my capability.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2851
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2022, 09:42 AM »
Kifi, not as hard as you may think.  I used 1" x 2" 1/8" aluminum angle, ripped down the 1" side on table saw, drilled holes to correspond to MFS slots and bought MFS fasteners from from FestoolUSA.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10173
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2022, 09:43 AM »
Cheese, do you just clamp the MFS to the door as shown and then route? This is stable enough?

Yup...the combination of the 2 angle brackets clamped from opposite sides of the door and the 2 wide MFS rails placed across the edge of the door provide a very stable platform. The compact size of the 1010 also contributes to the stability and remember, your router mass is only moving about 1" off center so nothing is being severely leveraged.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2086
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2022, 09:52 AM »
It just depends on the circumstances. I use a Porter-Cable jig most of the time, but I don't really do doors that often. For smaller or odd sized ones, I just make a jig from scraps. Or like that time at home when I needed the nice PC jig, but wasn't willing to drive 20 miles to the shop to get it.  [unsure]
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set

Online woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 536
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2022, 10:53 AM »
No disrespect intended to anyone, but some of these methods are ludicrously overcomplicated for what is the most basic, fundamental, day #1 lesson #1 task imaginable. If you only have one door to do - a wooden mallet and a 25mm razor-sharp firmer chisel. Less than two minutes per hinge, and a tight, flawless result after a little practise.

If you have multiple doors to do - a quarter-inch router, a parallel guide and a 19mm hinge cutter, plus either your firmer chisel or a corner chisel to square the corners. Once the guide and plunge depth are set up - each one takes seconds. I can regularly hang 7-8 doors per day on site work, including locks and hardware. There is really no need whatsoever for complex and costly jigs and other gadgets.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 11:07 AM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 857
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2022, 11:56 AM »
I agree that a sharp set of chisels is a great way to knock out squared-off hinge mortises, but you'll need to break out a router for hinges with 1/4" and 5/8" radius corners. Most of my work is remodel, so I'm frequently subject to existing hinge configurations, and most older homes I work on have 5/8" radius hinges.

The Templaco guides are great, one template will handle the door, as well as the jamb. For bigger jobs, I'll measure existing hinge spacing and order a custom template to match the existing layout.

The Templaco templates are based on the assumption that you're using a 1/2" bit and 5/8" bushing. I have a OF1010 set aside specifically for mortising work, makes hinge mortising a breeze.

The advantage of the Templaco is that, rather than being clamped, it is nailed to the edge of the door, thus allowing for accommodating a beveled door edge, frequently needed if you're allowing for a tweaked, existing jamb where a square edge would leave you hinge-bound. The two nail holes are easily filled.

For larger jobs with non-standard door heights or hinge layouts I'll order a custom template from Templaco, far cheaper than doing it by hand or making my own template.

https://www.templaco.com/html/dspFullLengthTemplates.asp?ManufacturerChoice=Templaco
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 235
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2022, 12:59 PM »
but you'll need to break out a router for hinges with 1/4" and 5/8" radius corners.

A radius corner cutter would be a must-buy-immediately tool for me. 
CT-SYS, CT-Midi, HKC55, OSC18, PSC420, OF1010, OF1400, MFK700, ETS125, DTS400, ETS EC150, RAS115, RTSC, CT26, CT VA, T18+3, TID18, CSX, DF700

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4002
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2022, 01:43 PM »
No disrespect intended to anyone, but some of these methods are ludicrously overcomplicated for what is the most basic, fundamental, day #1 lesson #1 task imaginable. Snip.

This is how many hobbyists and woodworkers doing woodworking for a living differ. The former has a lot of time on their hands that the latter don't, and hence they're more prone to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, so to speak. That is not to say the hobbyists don't enjoy what they do, as in fact they do, and don't mind about over-complicating things. Just look at the many YouTube creations that try to do (half of) what a Domino Machine can do. All is good; their time/money. their call.

Online woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 536
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2022, 02:41 PM »
100% agreed @ChuckS - and you're completely right of course. I wasn't being in any way disrespectful to hobbyists - who create some wonderful work (see 'Member Projects') and gain a huge amount of pleasure from doing so. I made the post specifically because in past posts, the OP has stated that he wishes to do this for a living, he's asked a ton of questions which are always about equipment, but as such, this post again reveals that he's very, very early in the learning curve. Nothing wrong with that obviously - we all start from the beginning.

I just didn't think that costly gadgets which he'd maybe use once in a blue moon would be the best use of whatever financial resources the guy has, (or doesn't have as the case may be) - especially on a topic such as this where there's an infinitely more simple, low-cost solution - especially since he said in his recent OF2200 post that he already has an OF1010 and a parallel guide which comes in the box. Apart from one hand tool and something to hit it with, he already owns everything necessary to get the job done to a standard of perfection.

IMO a couple of hours learning how to use a mallet and a chisel will be of more use to him than he'll possibly realise at this point. At his stage, it's so, so easy to slip into 'all the gear, but no idea' territory. We were all trying to help in our own way as always.

Kevin


« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 02:58 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Online 4nthony

  • Posts: 442
    • Slack for Recon Tools
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2022, 03:16 PM »
The Templaco guides are great, one template will handle the door, as well as the jamb. For bigger jobs, I'll measure existing hinge spacing and order a custom template to match the existing layout.

I watched my father-in-law, who has worked in the trades for about 50 years, install a slab door in less than 10 minutes using a Templaco jig. At the time, I thought it was a homemade jig so I set out to make my own based on what I remembered of his.

I made the jig but don't have any doors to hang so I never used it. I do need to add a small stop on the ends to mimic a door gap -- I think Templaco jigs use a small rubber bumper? -- and center the cutout so it'll work with both right and left swing doors (right now, it's set up for left swing). I'll probably have to use double-sided tape to secure it to the jamb.

I'm anticipating my future door projects to use pre-hung doors so I don't know if I'll ever get around to hanging a slab door but if I do, I'll get to see if this jig works!

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"The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you." - Kevin Kelly

Offline kifi

  • Posts: 41
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2022, 04:13 PM »
Thanks guys. Seems like the consensus is that a jig is the best way forward. I respect Bradshaw a lot (one of the linked videos above), and also have just earlier seen an excellent YouTuber and pro Robin Clevet use jigs and router. I did a woodworking course couple years ago and we spent weeks using mallets and chisels, cutting dovetails etc. All that is nice, if you have the time!!

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2086
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2022, 05:38 PM »
I use the Porter-Cable one, because the company has it   [wink] but mostly because it has all three hinges connected and spaced so that there is no measuring. Tack it on and go, move to the jamb and do the same. Most of the hinges I see have radiused corners, so a pattern bit that follows the jig is super fast.
I might do one or two a year, no where near what Kevin does.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 857
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2022, 05:47 PM »
The Templaco guides are great, one template will handle the door, as well as the jamb. For bigger jobs, I'll measure existing hinge spacing and order a custom template to match the existing layout.

I watched my father-in-law, who has worked in the trades for about 50 years, install a slab door in less than 10 minutes using a Templaco jig. At the time, I thought it was a homemade jig so I set out to make my own based on what I remembered of his.

I made the jig but don't have any doors to hang so I never used it. I do need to add a small stop on the ends to mimic a door gap -- I think Templaco jigs use a small rubber bumper? -- and center the cutout so it'll work with both right and left swing doors (right now, it's set up for left swing). I'll probably have to use double-sided tape to secure it to the jamb.

I'm anticipating my future door projects to use pre-hung doors so I don't know if I'll ever get around to hanging a slab door but if I do, I'll get to see if this jig works!



Good memory 4nthony, yup the Templaco templates use a little 1/8" thick plastic bump at each end of the template to give the proper spacing between the door and jamb. Place the bumper against the head jamb, while you want the body of the template flush with the top of the door.

Like the Porter Cable jig, the stock Templaco jigs are symmetrical.

I had forgotten to mention the Hingemaster kit, but this is more of a professional, production-oriented setup....

https://norfield.com/tools-and-supplies/door-jamb-fixtures/hinge-prep-fixtures/mfg56100-hingemaster-kit.html
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Online luvmytoolz

  • Posts: 273
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2022, 06:52 PM »
Although I generally subscribe to the maxim "the best mathematician is a lazy mathematician", I do love symmetry in work when things should be symmetrical, so having said that, I am a very jig oriented person, even if it might only get a small number of uses.

So if it's one door I'd just do it by hand and chisel, if it was one door every month or two I'd build a jig out of MDF similar to the attached pic which would be very trivial to make.

If it was a couple of doors a month I'd be buying the jig! That is if I didn't already have one! ;-)

If you don't have the confidence to wield mallets and chisels without possibly going off target which for the uninitiated is extremely likely, just make or buy a jig! There is no shame at all in using a jig, and they will save you time, they make the process dead simple, and they give perfectly consistent results every time!

The amount of fix-up work I've done on residential properties over the years rectifying crappy cutting/chiselling work is astounding.

Offline Holzhacker

  • Posts: 1052
    • www.aic-chicago.com
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2022, 06:54 PM »
For 1 or 2 doors I'll chisel out with or without butt markers.
For multiple doors on a job site I use the Templaco jig. Bought the whole 4 or 5 pack of different sizes years go. Not expensive, easy to use, work well.
Obviously there are lots of options. More about which option you like best.
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1180
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2022, 07:23 PM »
The Templaco jig is outstanding as is the company support. Their set is expensive for what it does, but where you make out is that when you have custom door hardware to install and they do not have a template they will make you one. I had a pocket door with dimensions different from the one(s) they sell. Emailed the sizes to them and template arrived a few days later. I also did a new install on 20+ doors in a historically accurate new home. The lock hardware was new, but was far from normal and the doors were ordered undrilled because of this. Templaco came through with custom templates for the strike plates and I had the templates for the other components. Take a look at their website and see how many templates they manufacture.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 343
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2022, 07:47 PM »
For actually holding the door, use two or more substantial blocks of wood and cut a trench into each one a bit wider than the door and use wedges to lock the door into the trenches. Very simple and quick to remove, lift the door off the ground and hit the pieces holding the door with a hammer.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4002
Re: What is your method/equipment to install door butt hinges?
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2022, 10:10 PM »
About holding the door.

The one time that I worked on a door (yes one time only...so I don't have any door hinge jig), I held it stable with a pair of handscrews. I also use a handscrew to hold the small trim router table:



Another use of the handscrews is to hold the torch and branding iron: