Author Topic: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?  (Read 1775 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« on: December 29, 2019, 10:04 AM »
Hi,
 I have been doing some DIY home remodeling in the kitchen that required cutting and demo'ing drywall. I indulged myself by pulling my CT26 out of the wood work garage and bringing it inside to help manage dust.  I used a variety of adapters to collect dust with a cheap 3-1/4" mini saw, and a Oscillating cutoff tool. The dust collection was remarkably effective.

 When I purchased my CT26 I mated it to an Ultimate Dust Deputy and have found it to be incredibly effective at capturing nearly all the wood particles I extract. I was surprised to learn that the dust deputy is only partially effective with the diversion of the fine drywall dust. It captured a lot of dust, but and equal amount made it past the intervention and now resides within my Festool CT26 bag.

 I have to say, I do not think I would have used a HEPA filter system for my small DIY project if I had known how the dust deputy handled the drywall dust.

 Nevertheless, I am now in the stages of finishing the drywall mud coating, and am considering using my Festool sanders to help with the job.

 Can I run the CT26 without a HEPA filter without damaging or clogging up the system?

 I think the combined ability of the Dust Deputy and the CT26 bag will be a tremendous help, but I'd like to enjoy the help while not ruining an expensive HEPA filter.

 What do you think?

 

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4480
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2019, 10:43 AM »
What do you think the HEPA filter is for?

It’s to prevent the particles that are too small for you to see (the ones that easily penetrate your lungs) from being re-distributed throughout the room where you and anyone around are breathing.

Drywall compound includes silica, you don’t want to breath it. And those paper masks are inadequate. Use the HEPA filter.

The only time you (maybe) don’t need it is when sawing and planing (some species) natural wood.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6265
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2019, 10:50 AM »
Never use a vac without a filter. Dirt gets spewed out as quickly as you suck it in, especially the bad smallest particles like Micheal said.

And besides that, you will not ruin your filter by sucking up drywall dust. The drywall dust will be caught by the bag. How do I know that? I've sanded miles and miles of the stuff and all my filters remain spotless. The bag will catch it all but will clog quickly though. Like when it's only 1/4 full you'll see a considerable loss in suction. I just bought a cyclone myself to see if this will help to get more use out of my bags, but I still have to use for the first time. Probably tommorow.

Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 02:41 PM »

:-) This is the first vacuum I have owned that has a HEPA filter. At my old age, the thought of being exposed to some microscopic dust for a few extra minutes hardly seems like it is going to make or break my prospects for a long happy life.

 I probably swallowed as much toxic particulates during the two decades that I daily spent bicycle commuting and sports training along fume sodden roadways, when I thought that I was keeping myself in tip top shape.

 In any event I am not here asking a philosophical question about the use of excellent filtration technology, but rather curious to learn about the vacuum mechanism.

 The anecdote indicating that the filter will not clog with drywall dust is reassuring. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 Thank you.


Offline Kanuka

  • Posts: 13
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 03:23 PM »
You should just wet sand the drywall. Makes about as much sense as anything else you're likely to think of.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 180
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2019, 03:43 PM »
At your age why are you concerned about the HEPA filter ? 

It will survive hours and hours of exposure to dust that manages to pass thorough the Festool bags.  Running a UDD you've more than doubled its life.  Use it , it's a tool.

FWIW, I'm still on an original filter on a CT22 + UDD after at least 10 years of shop use. It's prob more.  A DIY drywall project isn't going to kill it.

Offline usernumber1

  • Posts: 75
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 04:23 PM »
seriously, whats the point of having a hepa filter if you're not going to use it

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 65
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 06:31 PM »

 I probably swallowed as much toxic particulates during the two decades that I daily spent bicycle commuting and sports training along fume sodden roadways, when I thought that I was keeping myself in tip top shape.

@Alex here has the competence, and I think if you have a HEPA fitted vac in the first place, you should use it under circumstances given when sanding such as dry wall, paint etc. For more “safe” applications such as certain wood types I wouldn’t worry as much.

.. And for bicycling in traffic, commuting or training, I have never been confident that it is healthy. But I know lot of cyclists do. I’m glad you do realise that it might be harmful. Better put on your trainers and have a run in the woods, or at least some place where the air is more “filtered” [blink]

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6265
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2019, 01:14 AM »
:-) This is the first vacuum I have owned that has a HEPA filter. At my old age, the thought of being exposed to some microscopic dust for a few extra minutes hardly seems like it is going to make or break my prospects for a long happy life.

It is not about a few small particles you will not notice anyway. If you use a vac without filter, you will notice very quickly how your room turns into a place you don't want to be in. Unfiltered exhaust air is dirty. Really dirty.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 308
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2019, 09:04 AM »
Until I was about 13 none of the cars I rode in had seat belts, then for 5 or so years it was lap belts only, then lap and shoulder belts for the next 20 or so years and ever since a growing array of ACRS modules (airbags) supplemented by seat belt pretensioners, more sophisticated chassis structures that absorb collision energy, etc.  I am thinking about disconnecting all of those airbags because they are very expensive to replace after a collision and after all, I'm an old geezer and if I survived all those years without them why do I need them now?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4480
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2019, 09:51 AM »
“ I am thinking about disconnecting all of those airbags”

@kevinculle  I suppose you’re speaking tongue in check but what if you did that and later had a fatal collision. What would the life insurance company say?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 308
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2019, 11:08 AM »
Michael,

I was attempting to construct a tongue-in-cheek analogy to illustrate the folly of bypassing proven safety features that you have already paid for...I neglected to mention my personal experience at about age 20 of having my little airbag-less BMW impacted head-on by a drunk in a full size station wagon.  I ended up with about 140 stitches in my mouth whereas if I had been in a modern airbagged car I probably would have gotten off with an airbag brushburn to the cheek.  The OP was considering trading the cost of a HEPA filter ($150??) for his health and well being after having bought the HEPA filter just to avoid the risk.  Rectal-cranial inversion in my personal perspective.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4480
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2019, 12:19 PM »
@kevinculle  Yikes! Glad it wasn’t worse. That’s what I thought you were implying but in the OP’s defense I think he was just unfamiliar with the HEPA thing. He bought a new vac and it included this pricey filter. He was just wondering if it made sense to save it for something more exotic than sanding drywall compound, not knowing that drywall dust was precisely the kind of potentially hazardous stuff the filter is intended to catch.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3734
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2019, 12:22 PM »
I have a CT 33 and CT22. The 22, does not get used much. The 33 I use every time i am working with dust manufacturing tools from the finest grit sander to my 1400 router. I don't know how other workers get away with working for years without clogging-their HEPA filters. I have emptied/cleaned my HEPA filters, sometimes as often as once or twice per season. When the suction slowdown on my CT either 33 or 22, I just investigate the HEPA filters. All it takes is to take them outside and tap lightly to clean the packed dust out of the filter and reinstall. I even have a dust deputy type collector in my line from tool to CT. The deputy does a good job of collecting the large particles and most of the fine dust particles, but the fines that do not remainin the collection bucket do find their way into the collection bag within the CT. If I do not use the filter (and I never have done that),I am certain that that extra dust will settle in the motor, or worse, my lungs. It is only a few minute task to remove, tap the HEPA filters and reinstall.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4480
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2019, 12:32 PM »
@ Tinker  I don’t think your vacs have HEPA filters, just the regular pleated fiber filter. I don’t have HEPA filters on my old vacs either.

You do use bags right? Do you re-use bags? I used to do that (before getting cyclones) but wear and tear allowed some dust to pass through to the pleated filter, and as you know it’s a bit of a pain to clean the pleated filter.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1848
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2019, 03:23 PM »
Anything that might clog your hepa filter isn’t something you want to breathe or spread all over your house.  Besides, if I spread fine drywall dust all over the house, my life would be significantly shortened (by the other occupant of the house), but only after I cleaned the resulting mess.  So yeah, better to just leave the filter in place.

But I tend to be conservative.  I go into coughing fits just wandering into my attic to change the furnace filters.  Any vac used inside the home has a hepa filter. 
-Raj

Offline RJNeal

  • Posts: 413
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2019, 09:48 PM »
Oh this so reminds me when I was doing the vineyard management thing awhile back. The irrigation foreman would remove the water filter on the drip system because it would get clogged up.   [blink]
Rick
Have you walked your saw today?

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 180
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2019, 08:36 AM »
Oh this so reminds me when I was doing the vineyard management thing awhile back. The irrigation foreman would remove the water filter on the drip system because it would get clogged up.   [blink]
Rick

He was just protecting his turf.   If he didn't need xtra guys to fix the clogged emmiters/ sprayers then he'd have nobody to manage.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3734
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2019, 08:51 AM »
@ Tinker  I don’t think your vacs have HEPA filters, just the regular pleated fiber filter. I don’t have HEPA filters on my old vacs either.

You do use bags right? Do you re-use bags? I used to do that (before getting cyclones) but wear and tear allowed some dust to pass through to the pleated filter, and as you know it’s a bit of a pain to clean the pleated filter.

I stand corrected @Michael Kellough. I guess because I don't have a HEPA filter on either of my vacs, I probably don't know the difference.
It is sort of a pain to clean the filters but more of a pain to realize the vac has slowed down or because the filters are packed, the hose gets clogged in certain situations. That can become an aggravation.
Tinker

Wayne H. Tinker

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 180
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2019, 09:10 AM »
@ Tinker  I don’t think your vacs have HEPA filters, just the regular pleated fiber filter. I don’t have HEPA filters on my old vacs either.

You do use bags right? Do you re-use bags? I used to do that (before getting cyclones) but wear and tear allowed some dust to pass through to the pleated filter, and as you know it’s a bit of a pain to clean the pleated filter.

Careful there Michael telling people what they have and don't have.   

While the very first CT22/33's shipped with regular filters at the turn of the century (and HEPA wasn't an option if I recall) , by the mid 2000's the 22/33 were shipping with HEPA filter and replacements were available to upgrade older models.  Festool #493334

Festool didn't really make a huge fuss over this, I suspect because they didn't have the vacs "certified" HEPA until the mid to late teens.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4480
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2019, 12:55 PM »
@xedos   “Careful there Michael telling people what they have and don't have.”

I was careful. I know Tinker has had his vacs a very long time.  [wink]
We both moved here from the old Yahoo group over 13 years ago.

@Tinker   I still don’t understand why your filter is getting so much dust.
I’ve only cleaned mine a couple times in all these years. And it wasn’t due to reduced suction, just thought I might as well when changing the bag and cleaning up.

Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 331
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2019, 01:13 PM »
<snip>
@Tinker   I still don’t understand why your filter is getting so much dust.
I’ve only cleaned mine a couple times in all these years. And it wasn’t due to reduced suction, just thought I might as well when changing the bag and cleaning up.

Not necessarily the cause on Tinker's vac, but I didn't have the bag "fully/correctly engaged" on my CT26 once, and the filter got really clogged up.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3734
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2019, 03:18 PM »
I am scratching my memory. I have cleaned the filter on the CT 33 two or three times. One time my bag was evidently installed wrong. The bag was split somehow. The other times, I just realized there was a reduction in suction. Upon investigation, the filter was packed full. all two or three times it took only a few minutes to tap out the filters. I have not worked on any large projects for two years. So the clogging of filters happened at least four years ago, maybe more.

@ Michael Kellough,really, has it been thaaaat loonnngg?

Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4480
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2019, 08:50 PM »
@Tinker ”really, has it been thaaaat loonnngg?”

Okay, I exaggerated. It won’t be more than 13 years until February.  [big grin]

Offline luka_palooka

  • Posts: 1
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2020, 05:12 PM »

Hi, the filter is also protecting the turbine, it will quickly cause damage running no filter, is my understanding.

the cyclone separator will help reduce the volume of fine dust hitting the bag/filter.

Without autoclean ,a good option imho


Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 1011
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2020, 08:56 AM »
One of the selling features advertised is that Festool vacs do not use air passing through the bag and filter to cool the motor. They have a separate intake to use room air supposedly. No filter for that apparently.

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 939
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2020, 07:40 PM »
Just pick up a CT36 that was used to clean up builders rubbish on construction sites.

It obviously had filled the bag and they removed it and used it without one.

The HEPA filter filter clogged up so they removed it. The rest of the rubbish went thru the fan.

The CT started to scream like an air raid siren.

They got rid of the problem by selling it cheap.

I pulled it apart, cleaned out all of the rubbish in the fan, replaced the bag and filter and now have a quiet as new CT.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 65
Re: What happens if you run the CT26 without the HEPA filter?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2020, 07:53 PM »
Just pick up a CT36 that was used to clean up builders rubbish on construction sites.

It obviously had filled the bag and they removed it and used it without one.

The HEPA filter filter clogged up so they removed it. The rest of the rubbish went thru the fan.

The CT started to scream like an air raid siren.

They got rid of the problem by selling it cheap.

I pulled it apart, cleaned out all of the rubbish in the fan, replaced the bag and filter and now have a quiet as new CT.

 [eek] [big grin] [big grin] I believe you. That’s why I’m sceptical to buying a used vac. I have seen a few CT26 for sale here and most seems just “used”.. Replacing broken parts and new filter comes very quickly close to buying a new vac if the steep used prices is taken into account.
But, you certainly did a good job cleaning up, an I can be worth it if the price is right...
A testimony to FT’s quality in their vac’s anyhow.