Author Topic: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage  (Read 838 times)

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Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 866
TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« on: November 05, 2019, 02:08 AM »
I got out my TSC-55 for the first time in about 5 months to break down some sheet goods.  The last time I used it, I made sure that all six of my batteries (all 5.2 amp hour) were fully charged.  When I got it out yesterday, the battery at the back of the saw was fully discharged and the one in the front was less than half changed.  I replaced the battery at the back of the saw with another battery, which was also about 1/2 changed.  I got about 5 good cuts (mostly 5' cuts in 1" 5x5 Russian birch) out of those batteries before the charge lights started blinking.


After I finished, I charged up all of the batteries.  When I put the saw back in the systainer, I did not seat the batteries all the way in hopes that there would be no phantom draw from the saw.  Is that a good (or bad) idea?


I'm not used to the charge in Milwaukee or DeWalt lithium-ion batteries decreasing over time that much.  Any hints for storing Festool batteries that only get used every so often?


This may not be a long term issue for me.  I'm trying to work the TSC-55 into my normal work flow more, but yesterday/today was the first time I got two days in a row in the shop since early in the spring.

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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1041
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 03:16 AM »
Funny this topic comes up. The TSC is actually the only tool that I store without batteries. Not because I had noticed it depleting batteries, but because I don't use it as much as everything else.

So what I can say for sure, the batteries don't deplete on themselves/ in other tools, any faster than those of other manufacturers.

So it's either "normal" for the TSC to do this, or it's defective. I'd consult Festool directly - if you don't want to wait 5 months for me (or others) to try this. ;)

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1776
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 06:32 AM »
I posted this before, but I found essentially the same thing after a long period of hibernation on the TSC.  I did not note which battery was completely discharged, but it was so dead it could not be revived.  Could have been a faulty battery, but I  no longer leave batteries on the TSC when it’s put away. 
-Raj

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1446
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2019, 06:44 AM »
Batteries are covered in the 3-year warranty.

So I would be interested should someone who has new enough ones do science for us.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 06:47 AM by Gregor »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1340
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2019, 06:50 AM »
Interesting, I had a battery go bad in my TSC55 earlier this year and got a replacement from Festool. It was completely dead and wouldn't take a charge. It was the rear battery on the saw. I always assumed it was OK to store the batteries on the saw as that is how they ship from Festool. There is no room to store the batteries off the saw in the Systainer. Same goes for all the other battery operated tools I have from Festool, they all get stored with a battery installed.

MY TSC55 sees less than regular use meaning it's not used every day but I would guess at least a couple times a month. And either before or after each use I will check the battery levels and charge if need be. When I am using the saw it is not heavy or prolonged use and I rarely draw the batteries down below half charge. Same goes for my Carvex and the Ti15+3.

Since my saw stays in the shop I can easily store the batteries off the saw and maybe I will start doing that but it's much easier to have everything together in the one Systainer. I can see me now heading off to do some work at my Sister's place 45 miles away and realize I left the batteries sitting on the bench at home. Knowing me there is a good chance it WILL happen... DOH ! !
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1041
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2019, 07:03 AM »
I posted this before, but I found essentially the same thing after a long period of hibernation on the TSC.  I did not note which battery was completely discharged, but it was so dead it could not be revived.  Could have been a faulty battery, but I  no longer leave batteries on the TSC when it’s put away.

Afaik, when batteries are drained by very, very low current being drawn, the built-in protection can't do what it is supposed to do - and the battery get's drained beyond any revival aka deep discharge/ exhaustive discharge/ total discharge.

So I'd say it's more likely the TSC than the battery.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline ADKMedic

  • Posts: 72
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2019, 08:31 AM »
When storing batteries, there are variables.  One that has not been mentioned thus far is the environment in which your saw and batteries were stored, which can have a significant impact on life of the charge.  Were the batteries and tool stored in a climate controlled environment, or were they stored in a garage/shed/etc. where they were subjected to five months of temperature fluctuations that could range from freezing to high heat and humidity???

The only Festool battery tool I have is an older T15+ drill.  It is kept inside and the batteries seem to hold their charge forever.  One battery is always on the drill and the other battery is always in the charger, which is plugged into a timer power strip that only comes on for a couple of hours in the very early morning.

Andy

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1776
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2019, 09:37 AM »
In my case, it was a climate controlled basement.  65-70 degrees.  Oliver, you're right, there is likely some kind of parasitic draw on the battery which takes it down below the minimum threshold.  Normally during use the tool will just shut down and you recharge the batteries.  Anyway, when you get below the lowest threshold the chargers are typically programmed not to charge the battery.  Mine was under warranty, so I sent it in.  There are tons of posts on the interwebs about people jump starting their Lions (look for Makita batteries, the first gens were known to get bricked like this) to get enough of a charge that the chargers would take over.  Proceed at your own risk.  My Festool drills never had an issue like this.

Bob, there are two pockets inside the foam under where the saw plate sits.  The batteries will fit inside there, so they can be stored off the saw and still reside in your systainer.  No worries about showing up at your sister's sans battery.  :)
-Raj

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8987
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2019, 09:42 AM »
Interesting, I had a battery go bad in my TSC55 earlier this year and got a replacement from Festool. It was completely dead and wouldn't take a charge. It was the rear battery on the saw. I always assumed it was OK to store the batteries on the saw as that is how they ship from Festool. There is no room to store the batteries off the saw in the Systainer. Same goes for all the other battery operated tools I have from Festool, they all get stored with a battery installed.


I have room to store two batteries in the TSC55 Sys. Two pockets under the saw.





And though it is not optimal because it isn't a dedicated storage spot, two more "in use" batteries will fit quite nicely  here -------->






Seth

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 368
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 10:15 AM »
FYI - I replaced many of my gas lawn tools with battery powered EGO replacements about 3-years ago. They claim for long time storage optimal life is 30% of full charge. If fact the battery has a feature that will do this on it's own if not used for 30 days. Years ago I also picked up a Hitachi drill that was on clearance and the Li-Ion batteries would not charge. Found out that in this case if the battery discharges too far the charger system thought the battery was defective - throw-away (maybe technology has advanced?). I don't have any Festool battery powered tools but have many Makita and always make sure I rotate all the batteries.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 396
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 11:59 AM »
In general, modern lithium batteries don't like being charged fully and then being put away for a long time. In can really degrade their lifespan. This is why you generally get half charged batteries with store bought tools.

I'm not an electronics expert but I've read this somewhere and it seems to hold true for what I've observed. Try to avoid making a habit of filling batteries to the brim before packing them away.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1340
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2019, 04:07 PM »
Interesting, I had a battery go bad in my TSC55 earlier this year and got a replacement from Festool. It was completely dead and wouldn't take a charge. It was the rear battery on the saw. I always assumed it was OK to store the batteries on the saw as that is how they ship from Festool. There is no room to store the batteries off the saw in the Systainer. Same goes for all the other battery operated tools I have from Festool, they all get stored with a battery installed.


I have room to store two batteries in the TSC55 Sys. Two pockets under the saw.

(Attachment Link)



And though it is not optimal because it isn't a dedicated storage spot, two more "in use" batteries will fit quite nicely  here -------->


(Attachment Link)



Seth

Thanks Seth, I never thought about that space under the saw. Didn't realize that the batteries would fit there. I am going to store my batteries off the saw from now on.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 6
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2019, 04:09 PM »
FYI - I replaced many of my gas lawn tools with battery powered EGO replacements about 3-years ago. They claim for long time storage optimal life is 30% of full charge. If fact the battery has a feature that will do this on it's own if not used for 30 days. Years ago I also picked up a Hitachi drill that was on clearance and the Li-Ion batteries would not charge. Found out that in this case if the battery discharges too far the charger system thought the battery was defective - throw-away (maybe technology has advanced?). I don't have any Festool battery powered tools but have many Makita and always make sure I rotate all the batteries.

This is correct, Li-Ion batteries should be stored at around 1/3 of it’s capacity. This is why these batteries are delivered at this state. Unfortunately there are no “storage charge” mode on tool battery chargers. So you should use the batteries to at least half capacity or less before you store them.

Offline AlexR

  • Posts: 104
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2019, 05:11 PM »
I've had same problem with tsc55, battery went bad. Having used tool only twice , charged up batteries continued using tool put saw away with batteries still on saw. Two weeks later pulled saw out, one new batteries completely dead. This happen earlier this year in our uk summer, saw stored in cool dry workshop. Festool replaced battery. Battery had date stamp 19-03.
 I now always store tsc55 without batteries on but its worrying what happens when you forget and kill another very expensive battery.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 6
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 05:58 PM »
If this is more or less a sole problem with TSC 55 it is strange. Could the saw be drawing current with batteries attached? As a rule, I store batteries unattached, and connect batteries only after initial adjustment of the tool (if applicable) and right before each use. It’s a safety routine as you would with corded tools. However, all my drills have the batteries attached even when stored. I have 2 "old" Makita drills without the "Star" protection circuit (Li-Po cut off) and all 4 of my old 3Ah batteries still working perfect, even after more than 12 months of storage. Also my 3 newer Makita drills and new batteries I store with the batteries attached, as is my Festool C18. For safety all saws etc. I store the tools with batteries unattached, Makita or Festool. Neither has caused battery failure. (Festool equipment is fairly new, so no long term experience there..)
I have not seen any info if Festool has Li-Po cut off protection, does any one know?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1340
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2019, 07:32 PM »
Hearing all this makes me wonder why the batteries ship installed on the saw, at least that's how my TSC55 came and as far as I know I was the first to open the Systainer. Everything appeared to be as packed from the factory, nothing seemed like it might have been disturbed before it was shipped to me.

If there is room for the batteries to fit under the saw (can't believe I never tried that) why ship with the batteries installed. It's the reason I have always left the batteries on there because that is how I received it so I took that to be an acceptable condition for storage. Other than that one battery going bad (it developed a slight leak) I haven't had a problem in two years.

But I know that removing the batteries can't cause any problems so that is what I will do from now on since there is space to stow them in the Systainer with the saw and I won't have to worry about leaving them behind.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 465
Re: TSC-55 Battery Life in Storage
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 08:20 AM »
The protection circuit itself might actually leach power too, even when not connected.

Storing Lithium batteries... lower temperature is better (but DO NOT charge when frozen!). About 40% is optimal.

If you want to know if the saw is leeching; connected the battery to the saw using some small cables and put the multimeter in mA mode in series in one lead. Clamp meters are way too inaccurate for the small current (if there is any).