Author Topic: Took Woodworking class, more questions !  (Read 1889 times)

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Offline Thompmd

  • Posts: 231
Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« on: April 04, 2021, 06:55 AM »
I took a basic cabinet making class last week. Planning to build 3 vanities and wanted thoughts.

Do you cut your dado’s , rabbits, Mortises & Tenons etc with a dado set or with a router(I have Of1400, rails, guide stops , not sure if I have the bit, will look but can get) or did you buy a dado set and do it on your table saw(I have a Sawstop PCS but no dado set at this point ). When I called my local guy that sharpens tools , he sells Tenyru, and the teacher suggested them/others the dealer asked me(I called him driving home and haven’t researched) if Sawstop would accept an 8” Dado set? I assume it would as that’s what the class had?

In my head it seems as I could do this with my router and do it accurately?

Thoughts? Videos to view?

Really enjoyed the class and will return. The teacher was great(murrinwoodworkingstidio.com) and I learned a lot.

Have a lot of you taken classes? I’m a “want to be shown” vs YT or reading about it.
Sawstop Industrial Saw, TS75,2 1400 rails, CT36, Rotex RO 150 FEQ, CT-VA-20, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Carvex acc. ZH-SYS-PS 400, Kapex KS 120, CT Cyclone Dust Collection Pre-Separator CT VA 20, DF 500 Q Set, Domino 1,060pc Tenon Assortment, UG-KA-SET Portable Imperial Stand & Extensions,OF1400 EQ-F-Plus, MFT/3, MFT-SP, FS-HZ 160

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Offline cpw

  • Posts: 278
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2021, 07:23 AM »
Unless it is a stopped dado, or so much of a cross cut that I wouldn't feel confident on a table saw (like for a shelf on an 8' high cabinet), I would use my Sawstop with an 8" Forrest dado king.  If it is stopped, or the piece would be too big for the table saw, then a router with a track.  For small stopped dados, like on a door stile when using dominos, then I have used both a router table and a handheld router.

After getting the domino, I probably do less Dados for case work, because I use the domino for the horizontal pieces into verticals instead.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 977
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2021, 07:44 AM »
@Thompmd Here's the Festool way of doing a dado/groove

Instagram @matts.garage

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1199
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2021, 08:11 AM »
I have been woodworking for over 50 years. The only woodworking classes I have taken were in high school & at Festool in Lebanon.
At the time I started woodworking & college were the only woodworking classes that I knew of. I have considered going to the Marc Adams School. I just have never made the time.

I cut my dados, rabbets & tenons on a table saw with a dado blade. I do not do this because it is the best way to do it. This is the way that worked best for me because there were not other good options available at the time. I do have a dedicated table saw for dados.

Dado blades take time to setup and take down.

Since you have a router & not a dado blade, there are some very good options for cutting dados with a router. Woodpeckers has a very nice jig that makes cutting the correct width dados very easy. It costs a lot of money. But it might cost less than a the cost of a dado blade & SawStop dado cartridge. There are other options for cutting dados with a router, but I believe the Woodpecker jig is the best. 

Rabbets can be easily be cut with a router & rabbeting bit. I have also seen router bits for cutting tenons on a router table.
There are also tenoning jigs for a table saw.

Dado Jig
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 08:16 AM by JD2720 »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 320
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2021, 08:56 AM »
For me, it depends on the size of the material. I prefer to do rabbets with the router table and I do them far more often than dados anyway. Lately I have switched to a 2" diameter insert style bit from the 1 1/4" straight bit that I have used for years. I have always kept 2 of them in stock, one usually in the machine and a back-up. That way I am not held up while one is at the sharpener.
An 8" dado stack will indeed work with a Sawstop, but it requires a specific brake cartridge. his is another added expense, especially if you don't use it often.
Once in a while, I need to cut grooves in countertops for glass or acrylic partitions. This is where the  OF1400 and the track comes into play.

Also, depending on the application, it can be advantageous to "build" a dado/groove by butting a rabbet against another piece of flat stock. I often have to inlay metal mouldings into the exterior skins of reception desks. Many times it works out to be easier to butt the panels in sections like this, usually because they are huge or because there is a field joint where the sections come apart for transport or both.
The black metal U channel in this unit was done by building the groove rather than cutting it into a solid panel.
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PS420 + Base kit
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Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 786
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2021, 09:04 AM »
Check out Pedullaworks Perillaworks on YouTube - he has that whole thing of dado with a router and jig down to perfection.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 09:52 AM by Bert Vanderveen »
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 320
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2021, 09:31 AM »
Parillaworks?
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3417
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2021, 09:50 AM »
I have the SawStop Industrial model and I use a Forrest 8” dado set.

You will need the SawStop dado brake cartridge and follow the installation instructions especially those related to the clearance between blade and cartridge. Also, you will need the dado table insert. There are excellent instructions on how to cut into the table insert the first time. It’s critical to have the insert clamped down when first cutting into it. You probably had to do this when you first got your saw.

Once you get all. This done, the dado is my preferred way of cutting rabbits.

I’ve done these on a router table, but routers are my tool of last resort.
Birdhunter

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2048
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2021, 10:04 AM »
I have always felt that I get more accuracy with dados cut with a router, but I have never been a big fan of dado blades. Generally, a dado blade has to be rather expensive to be good. Cheap ones don't seem to do a high quality job. Festool routers allow a lot of accuracy and are easy to set, especially with the bit center markings on the base of the OF1400 and use of a track.

In the end, it's like many things in woodworking. If you pick a method and use it over and over, then you feel comfortable with it and you perfect your method, so that's the method or technique or tool that works best for you.
Randy

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8353
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2021, 11:26 AM »
I've cut dados with both a table saw/Forrest dado head and Festool routers working off of a Festool rail. Either method works fine it's really about your comfort level with the machine you're using.

This last dado was cut with an OF 1010, Whiteside helical bit, sitting on a Festool rail with a MicroFence adjuster. In the close-up you can see that it's a nice clean cut using a router bit in maple ply.




Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2544
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2021, 02:33 PM »
Like CPW, I hardly use the dado stack on my SawStop over the past 5 years as the Domino joint eliminates the need for dados in cabinet work.

Without test cuts for dado fit and measuring or calculating the panel width to take into account the dado or rabbet depth (×2), the Domino approach is a lot more efficient.

The only time I needed a dado was for a T-track, which I cut with a regular blade in multiple passes.

If I had to choose, I'd go with the table saw unless the sheets are of 4x8 size. Anything smaller can be done with ease on the table saw with the Jessem stock guides in place.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 02:36 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Thompmd

  • Posts: 231
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2021, 06:59 PM »
Thanks everyone, I’m looking into the suggestions.

The class was at Marc Adams 👍

Does anyone know if I also have to change the dado & std cartridge out each time S well?

8” dado set was around $300, dado cartridge $100.

As mentioned I’m going to research but I don’t see myself using the dado set that often other than cabinets, or am I missing something?

I also have the domino so I need to look into that as well. With my limited experience with the domino thus far it’s been a pretty easy and more importantly accurate machine.

Speaking of the domino, while attaching the rail/stile he suggested using the exact size domino for the rail and the next size larger for the stile(width). Is that something you guys do or was that ease of use for us newbies??
Sawstop Industrial Saw, TS75,2 1400 rails, CT36, Rotex RO 150 FEQ, CT-VA-20, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Carvex acc. ZH-SYS-PS 400, Kapex KS 120, CT Cyclone Dust Collection Pre-Separator CT VA 20, DF 500 Q Set, Domino 1,060pc Tenon Assortment, UG-KA-SET Portable Imperial Stand & Extensions,OF1400 EQ-F-Plus, MFT/3, MFT-SP, FS-HZ 160

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2021, 07:06 PM »
I've cut dados with both a table saw/Forrest dado head and Festool routers working off of a Festool rail. Either method works fine it's really about your comfort level with the machine you're using.

This last dado was cut with an OF 1010, Whiteside helical bit, sitting on a Festool rail with a MicroFence adjuster. In the close-up you can see that it's a nice clean cut using a router bit in maple ply.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
@Cheese What are the magnetic reed switches for? Are you lighting the drawers when they are opened?
Greg Powers
Size:XL

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2544
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2021, 07:21 PM »
Snip.
Speaking of the domino, while attaching the rail/stile he suggested using the exact size domino for the rail and the next size larger for the stile(width). Is that something you guys do or was that ease of use for us newbies??

I always use the same standard (tight) setting for all the joints in a frame and panel construction -- registering all the pieces with the paddles (stop latches). Clamping is super straightforward. No need to align the pieces as you clamp.

The reason you were told to do it differently, I believe, is that not all Domino machines (the paddles, that's) are properly calibrated. If not calibrated, it's better to use the "one-tight and one-wide" approach. If your paddles are out of alignment, tune them so you can enjoy the full precision features of the machine.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 09:02 PM by ChuckM »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2544
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2021, 07:30 PM »

Snip.
Does anyone know if I also have to change the dado & std cartridge out each time S well?

8” dado set was around $300, dado cartridge $100.
Yes, on the SawStop, you need to match the cartridge with the blade you use.

Unless you'll be using the dado cutter often enough, the investment in a dado stack and a SS cartridge doesn't seem to be wise. You still have the router option to go with anyway.

Offline Thompmd

  • Posts: 231
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2021, 08:19 PM »
Thank you chuck, in the short term I plan to use my existing tools and see if I can produce the results I want? Experience and results will get me to where I want(I hope) and why spend the money and take the time.

I think I’ve been lucky so far because using only the tight setting on everything has worked fine. I must have gotten a properly aligned machine. I honestly ever thought about 2 different sizes, neat idea if I ever find the need.

Another “trick” I found interesting was sneaking up on a mitered corner. I have had mixed results and they got them close and then pressed the mitered corner against the blade with light pressure and the. Raising the blade and making your final cut. At least it worked that time.
Sawstop Industrial Saw, TS75,2 1400 rails, CT36, Rotex RO 150 FEQ, CT-VA-20, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Carvex acc. ZH-SYS-PS 400, Kapex KS 120, CT Cyclone Dust Collection Pre-Separator CT VA 20, DF 500 Q Set, Domino 1,060pc Tenon Assortment, UG-KA-SET Portable Imperial Stand & Extensions,OF1400 EQ-F-Plus, MFT/3, MFT-SP, FS-HZ 160

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3417
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2021, 08:49 PM »
Also, on the SawStop dado setup, you need a dado table insert.
Birdhunter

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8353
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2021, 12:17 AM »
What are the magnetic reed switches for? Are you lighting the drawers when they are opened?

Yes @Greg Powers...turned on when opened and turned off when closed by the Blumotion slides.  [big grin]

Unfortunately, that didn't quite work out so well because of the in-rush current drawn by the LED's which tended to weld the reed switch contacts together on a haphazard basis. It was really hit & miss. I'm sure one could produce a circuit board that would prevent that from happening but I'm not an EE so it's way above my pay grade.

The fallback position was to install microswitches, old tech that's been used for years in machine tools and satellites.  [cool]




Three of the drawers opened without the drawer fronts attached.


« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:05 AM by Cheese »

Offline Pbanbury

  • Posts: 1
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2021, 12:40 PM »
I just finished a large set of cabinets for a pantry. Prior to that I built cabinets for a van and a house. I adapted my old Makita router to a Festool rail to cut dados for this recent job. I was able to clamp two sections 16”W x 84”H together and run the dados in one go, ensuring the align and saving time.  This also let me keep my table saw set up for cutting. In the same project I used the table saw and dado set to cut other rebates, dados. 

I would replace the Makita with a Festool router if it went belly up.  If I had to choose one, I would go with the router/rail setup for dados, because then I don’t have to wrestle large panels on the table saw, which can result in wobbly cuts.  If I am making a smaller piece, I find the table saw quicker, and easier to setup precise sizes of dados.

I wanted a Domino for the big pantry, but the cost was better put into my other tools, and I am convinced that my dowel jig, while not as easy, is just as or stronger, and more flexible.

The new Van’s galley will be wood construction, so I will be dadoing again soon. As I plan the work, I will likely use both tools for those cuts.

Offline Thompmd

  • Posts: 231
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2021, 09:47 PM »
Good point about handling the panels, I have t had to break them down other than cutting a rough piece for something. I wasn’t aware of this but they mentioned that some sheet goods come in a slightly larger size than 4x8 for just this reason? Is that pretty common?
Sawstop Industrial Saw, TS75,2 1400 rails, CT36, Rotex RO 150 FEQ, CT-VA-20, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Carvex acc. ZH-SYS-PS 400, Kapex KS 120, CT Cyclone Dust Collection Pre-Separator CT VA 20, DF 500 Q Set, Domino 1,060pc Tenon Assortment, UG-KA-SET Portable Imperial Stand & Extensions,OF1400 EQ-F-Plus, MFT/3, MFT-SP, FS-HZ 160

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 320
Re: Took Woodworking class, more questions !
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2021, 07:49 PM »
Good point about handling the panels, I have t had to break them down other than cutting a rough piece for something. I wasn’t aware of this but they mentioned that some sheet goods come in a slightly larger size than 4x8 for just this reason? Is that pretty common?

Not in home center type stores, but at actual wood suppliers it is. Particle Board, MDF, and hardwood veneered plywood generally come as 49 x 97. This is to allow for squaring and removing edges that may have been damaged during handling. Some of those products are available as large as 61 x 145. 5 x 12s are very hard to deal with though, but when you actually need them, very handy.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)