Author Topic: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run  (Read 3336 times)

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Offline ttf5003

  • Posts: 63
Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« on: April 28, 2022, 06:28 AM »
Hi,

I have all older festool hoses but will be doing a lot of sanding where I will be 16 feet up in the air soon. I would like to buy a 3.5m 36mm hose and a 3.5 27mm hose and connect them together. After the job is complete I'll use them on a home made boom arm somewhat permanently.

They offer the 36mm in two version, which would be best?

Festool 204923 Smooth Suction Hose D36/32x3.5m
Festool 204924 Smooth Suction Hose D36x3.5m

Also I believe either one of them will connect to Festool 204921 Smooth Suction Hose D27/32x3.5m without using any adapters now?

Thanks,

Travis

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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1455
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2022, 07:35 AM »
 [2cents]

Get either but skip the 27mm. I have an old ribbed 36mm cut down and coupled to a new smooth 36mm for my bench area suspended much like a boom arm would be. The coupler fittings were ~$40 or so. I took the other half of the original 36mm that I cut and dedicated it to my miter saw.

It's simple to shove the 27mm adapter fitting inside the 36mm end for when you need to hook up to a 27mm tool. Less restriction that way. If you try to do 36mm to 27mm hose you'll end up choking your suction versus just have 36mm all the way.

I think Festool sells the adapter for a silly markup but you can order it from other places using the PN in the picture:

Instagram @matts.garage

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1326
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2022, 07:41 AM »
Not sure of your setup but for long runs I always hard pipe it as much as possible. If your using scaffolding then I would add a deck at the bottom to strap the CT to and run some 2" pvc up to the top at one corner and strap/zip tie it to the upright of the scaffold.  then just plug in the hose at the top.

Offline ttf5003

  • Posts: 63
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2022, 09:39 AM »
Thanks for the thoughts and other options. I didn't think 7m would be particularly long for running a sander?

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2022, 10:35 AM »
You won't have any trouble with suction for the sander at 7m.

I would go with the straight D36 (204924) and the D32/27 (577158).

If you need the D36 for a tool (HL850, router) you will want it to be full diameter at the tool end. Both for the over the port connection and the non-clogging diameter.

I find the 32/27 is better for most of the tools handling wise. D36 with an adapter for smaller tools that don't need the larger diameter hose gets clunky.

Yes, on the new style hoses the D36 tool end fits directly into the D32/27 vac end.

This pairing makes for a very versatile and convenient combination.

Seth

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1326
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2022, 11:25 AM »
Well, not saying it could or would be a problem. However, it will perform better and be considerably cheaper even if pvc is 20 bucks for 10' of 2" last I checked.  I have no idea what you are sanding either, is this just some light finish sanding or are we talking some heavy RO beam work.  Will the hose work, yep.  Will rigid smooth wall pipe be more efficient, cheaper and most likely less/strain load on the CT yep. Plus if your going to be going boom arm later then I would assume we are talking other tools such as a TS were every cfm is a benefit.

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1378
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2022, 03:03 PM »
For the Festool boom arm (Not homemade) I prefer a 5m D36 hose. Snugged to the dust collector off the end of the boom arm, the hose end sits about 2 inches off the ground. Then I cut a 21" section of 27mm hose from a 5m D27 hose to plug into the D36 hose to use for sanders, smaller routers, etc. (On a homemade boom arm I might be inclined to use PVC pipe, or use metal pipe and pull air thru the pipe.)

If I was sanding 16' in the air, I would use a 5m D36 coupled to a D27 hose as the newest hoses plug end to end without an adapter. Some velcro strapping will help keep the hose weight off of your arms.I would not consider 6m to be long enough for a 16' working height. 8.5m should work, but I bought both hoses in 5m lengths. (Although I do have a few 3.5m hoses of the older style in both D27 and D36 sizes they rarely get used.)

Offline festal

  • Posts: 342
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2022, 04:12 PM »
For the Festool boom arm (Not homemade) I prefer a 5m D36 hose. Snugged to the dust collector off the end of the boom arm, the hose end sits about 2 inches off the ground. Then I cut a 21" section of 27mm hose from a 5m D27 hose to plug into the D36 hose to use for sanders, smaller routers, etc. (On a homemade boom arm I might be inclined to use PVC pipe, or use metal pipe and pull air thru the pipe.)

If I was sanding 16' in the air, I would use a 5m D36 coupled to a D27 hose as the newest hoses plug end to end without an adapter. Some velcro strapping will help keep the hose weight off of your arms.I would not consider 6m to be long enough for a 16' working height. 8.5m should work, but I bought both hoses in 5m lengths. (Although I do have a few 3.5m hoses of the older style in both D27 and D36 sizes they rarely get used.)

do you have any pictures of your setup?
I just got a a boom arm and noticed that my 3.5m d36 hose is a bit shorter then i wanted so contemplating what to do

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1274
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2022, 04:22 PM »
About the original question, the tapered hose doesn't have the tool end that locks into the vac end of another hose, it has a tool end similar to the old 36 mm hoses.

I'm not a painter, but I think I wouldn't want the weight of a long hose attached to a sander when I'm working at height. It think I would prefer having the vacuum on the scaffold; but I guess you can attach the hose with a bungee or something to the ladder or scaffold to the take most of the weight off.


Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 381
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2022, 05:04 PM »
Why not just use a long extension cord and take the extractor up there with you? Seems like the most logical and cheapest solution. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding what your task entails.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 05:08 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1336
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2022, 05:29 PM »
I’d go with what SRSemenza suggests, and get the adapter too, that DynaGlide refers to (for use later with the 36mm hose on 27mm tools.
Also, if you are on a scaffolding, fixing a pipe to it is a good idea. Unless you fix the hose to the scaffolding before and after the joint it’ll want to go down.. So a pipe that’s secured is easy to work with and can be fixed semi-permanently.

The option to quickly join a straight 36mm hose with the 32/27mm is golden sometimes, and no adaptors needed.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1682
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2022, 05:55 PM »
204924

Don't know about US pricing, but in Europe... for 10-15% more you get 577258 that includes a whole cleaning set a Sys3 M 437. Not bad for 15 extra bucks.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1463
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2022, 10:35 PM »
When I bought my CT-MINI in 2016 to work on the siding of my story-and-a-half bungalow, I found it significantly easier to just take it up the scaffold with me than leave it on the ground and run a long hose.  Also part of why I got the MINI instead of a 26 at the time, aside from the price.  I ended up with an RO-90 shortly after, still not sure why I didn't take advantage of the 10% bundle deal that they used to do back then.

Ahh, simpler times...

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1326
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2022, 10:18 AM »
It really comes down to the work and the scaffold setup.  Bringing the CT up is probably easiest for a one day deal. However, depending on the scaffold deck size, I may or may not want it up there with me.  Having other tools and materials up there would quickly make me abdomen that idea the last thing I want at the top of some scaffolding platform is one more thing to work around or trip over. Also if was going to be multiple day/week project I would not want to bring it up down everyday to lock up if needed. I was picturing a rolling scaffold setup and why I mentioned the extra walking deck at the bottom This way the CT moves with the scaffold.  If its a stationary rig then the CT is fine on the floor.  Otherwise a ratchet strap will quickly secure the ct to the walking deck.  I just dont see the "benefit" of hose over ridged. 

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1929
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2022, 11:35 AM »
Couple of older PDFs that may be useful information.


Offline ttf5003

  • Posts: 63
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2022, 09:36 PM »
I wanted to thank everyone for the ideas and suggestions, especially Seth. I called Chip at Tool Nirvana last week and he answered all my questions. I got a cleaning set with the 36mm, a new Mini, and a LS130. The 36mm and the new straight hose off the mini fit together perfectly.

I'm sanding the inside and outside of a log cabin. The inside scaffolding is rolling so I will probably put the vac on the bottom deck which will work well. The outside will be a little more difficult. Most likely a plank off two extension ladders. 

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1682
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2022, 10:08 AM »
So the tool end of the smooth D36 hose fits in the vac-end of the D27 hose that came with the Mini?

Offline Aux2496

  • Posts: 10
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2022, 11:34 AM »
They offer the 36mm in two version, which would be best?

Festool 204923 Smooth Suction Hose D36/32x3.5m
Festool 204924 Smooth Suction Hose D36x3.5m

I actually have both of these hoses.  I purchased the D36 straight hose so that I would have the bayonet fitting on the tool side and the least amount of restriction for certain types of tools.

The 36/32 hose is a full 36mm for most of the hose.  The last 3.5 feet will gradually taper down to 32mm.  There are a couple of things I have noticed.  The tapered 36/32 hose is definitely much more flexible at the tool end and easier to handle for hand held tools like sanders.  The other thing I noticed is the tapered hose does not carry as much vibration from the tool.  If you use something like a random orbit sander, the vibration of the hose itself on the 36/32 hose when held about 2 feet away from the tool is much less than the straight 36 hose.  I think this is mostly due to how the tapered/flexibility is designed.  The D36 is a much stiffer hose at the end and as a result will transfer more vibration from the tool.

Not sure if this is a concern for some people.  I think the straight D36 hose would perform better for things like routers and miter saws.

Offline ttf5003

  • Posts: 63
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2022, 09:33 PM »
So the tool end of the smooth D36 hose fits in the vac-end of the D27 hose that came with the Mini?

Yes that's correct. And the new mini uses a straight hose now. I'm pretty happy with the setup.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1682
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2022, 08:09 PM »
So the tool end of the smooth D36 hose fits in the vac-end of the D27 hose that came with the Mini?

Yes that's correct. And the new mini uses a straight hose now. I'm pretty happy with the setup.

After posting I realized I own both, but never tried it yet. Mainly because they have not yet been in the same location. But sounds like my 7.5m Plug-It cord might finally become useful  [tongue]

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 148
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2022, 06:15 AM »
I’m sorry, I cannot answer your specific question as to whether to use the tapered or non-tapered D36 hose; I have a D36 but I cannot get to check which one it is.

I find that it is a really good combination with the D27/32 hose - my workshop setup is that the vac (CT26) mostly stays next to the Kapex and when in use the D36 connects directly to the Kapex - for most other things I connect the D27/32 and this gives good reach around most of the workshop - most of the smaller tools (sanders/dominoes/biscuit jointers/vacuum accessories etc) work fine with the less cumbersome D27 hose.

The connection between the two hoses works very well.

I don’t recall thinking about it, but I would say today I would opt for the non-tapered D36 for my setup.


Cheers

« Last Edit: May 08, 2022, 06:27 AM by scholar »

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 148
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2022, 06:30 AM »
About the original question, the tapered hose doesn't have the tool end that locks into the vac end of another hose, it has a tool end similar to the old 36 mm hoses.


I don’t think this is correct - both hoses have the same end connector (the only difference being that the tapered one has a green reducing sleeve where it fits the hose itself)

Cheers


Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1682
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2022, 08:18 AM »
The Bajonet on the D36 hose tool end is not as pronounced as the bajonet on the D27 hose end. So I don't see why it wouldn't work even if it didn't have the bajonet. Maybe a bit more air leakage?

Offline Aux2496

  • Posts: 10
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2022, 04:13 PM »
The Bajonet on the D36 hose tool end is not as pronounced as the bajonet on the D27 hose end. So I don't see why it wouldn't work even if it didn't have the bajonet. Maybe a bit more air leakage?

The bayonet fitting on the D35 will work just fine with those adapters and other connections.  There isn't any air leakage.  However, the D36 bayonet is required if you want a proper fitting onto tools that generate more dust such as Kapex or the Festool Routers. The D27 end is just not enough air movement to pull dust from these tools.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1682
Re: Tapered or non tapered 36mm hose for long run
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2022, 05:37 PM »
The Bajonet on the D36 hose tool end is not as pronounced as the bajonet on the D27 hose end. So I don't see why it wouldn't work even if it didn't have the bajonet. Maybe a bit more air leakage?

The bayonet fitting on the D35 will work just fine with those adapters and other connections.  There isn't any air leakage.  However, the D36 bayonet is required if you want a proper fitting onto tools that generate more dust such as Kapex or the Festool Routers. The D27 end is just not enough air movement to pull dust from these tools.

Why? I have an older ribbed bajonet-free D36 hose and it never dropped off. I modified my Metabo MFE 65 to with a piece of 50mm PVC sewerpipe to go around the D36 hose (tool end) and even there it never drops.