Author Topic: stress deciding a sander :/  (Read 2097 times)

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Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
stress deciding a sander :/
« on: February 06, 2021, 08:20 AM »
So i have decided to pass on sanders that I just dont use to bring something new to the table.  I often struggle with edges and corners using my goto ets ec150/3 and was looking for something to do those parts a bit better.

the options im considering are:

RTS400 3x5 looks a great size ideal for corners and small flats
DTS400 although my experience with deltas isn't great as the point tends to get stubby

and a non festool Mirka Deos

The Deos concerns me as Mirka seem to have a good amount of reliability problems, i find the hose connection a bit crappy and the power cord isnt a plugit.  I do love how compact and low profile it is though.

If it go the RTS/DTS route, they seem a bit tall, im wondering how stable they are.  Then theres the cordless versions, are they worth it?

in the cordless could i get the DTS and change the pad to the RTS? or vise versa? i know this is possible with the corded version.

I have just sold an RO90 as i just found it cumbersome and unbalanced.

any help will be appreciated

cheers
Craig



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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7570
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2021, 08:39 AM »
Get the DTS, it is very stable.

I would always get a corded model, I don't care about cordless anders.

You can NOT change the pads on any DTS/RTS sanders. That was only possible with the older DS/RS sanders, but not anymore.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 586
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2021, 09:01 AM »
I had the same issue buying the DTS/delta sanders as you.  Yes the tip does tend to wear faster, this is a common and well known issue with these types of sanders.  I suggested here that the DTS could be better having 3 equal sides like a equilateral triangle still with the slight radius on the sides for getting along edges.  While it would prevent it from passing between closely spaced obstacles it actually wouldn't add that much more width.  It really comes down to how the end user uses it.  For getting into corners the eq. triangle would be better so the paper/pad could be rotated 3 times.  If you sand a lot of stairs and need to get between spindles then the delta shape is probably better.  Either way doesn't much matter since you cant buy the one.  There is a way to cut the paper on the DTS so the tip of the paper can be rotated 3 times. The pad is still an issue.  Some manufactures make the paper with perforations already but not Festool.  The DTS is a nice sander and I dont regret buying it.  It fills a need for myself and will just depend on how much corner sanding you need to do.  Could it be better for my use, yea but one size does not fit all, I still think the RTS and DTS should be one sander with interchangeable bases but whatever.  Just FYI as Alex said they are NOT interchangeable.

As far as cordless sanders go IMO its a waste.  I almost always use dust collection when sanding so the vacuum hose is hooked up regardless. Only time the vacuum hose isn't on is if its interfering with something or really tight spot.  Under normal circumstances the power cord isn't even noticed.  Now if you do most of your sanding using a bag or no dust collection at all then the cordless might be handy.  Once again it really comes down to how you will be using it.  For myself its corded sanders all the way or pneumatic. However pneumatic is only really good in shop since most require a pretty big compressor.  If using at jobsite then electric is much better option.   
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 09:12 AM by afish »

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 09:10 AM »
I do think corded is the way to go, if i were going to buy other cordless tools and they all used the same battery type then i might have considered cordless. after all its hobbyist use, not daily pro use.

a bit more research shows that you can also swap out the square/delta pads on the DEOS which is making it a bit more attractive :/   << more of a PITA than originally thought
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 09:20 AM by craigsalisbury75 »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 586
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2021, 09:21 AM »
I didnt end up going with the Mirka since I had read about multiple issue from different users about the electronics in them failing.  While I understand there is a warranty I still hope to get more than 3 years of use out of any sander. Especially at the Festool/Mirka price point I only plan to buy them once unless I do something stupid and drop one off a ladder or something.  Under normal use if a $300-500 sander doesnt last me my lifetime then I wont be happy especially under hobby use.  If I made my living by sanding then yea, I would expect I might wear it out.   

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2021, 09:34 AM »
before i go all trigger happy, i presume there is no problem using abranet on the RTS/DTS ?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 09:39 AM by craigsalisbury75 »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2900
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2021, 09:41 AM »
Both RTS and DTS Sanders are great. DTS is better at corners. RTS has some other pads available like the interface pad for slight curves and contours. Both ate balanced to me and they supposedly work with the right angle attachment for perpendicular edges ( have not tried that yet). Cordless would be nice if you are on a tall ladder or outside on a ladder but I would not bother for regular shop use.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 586
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2021, 09:42 AM »
I have not used abranet on mine but I believe you need a pad saver Festool#203347 protection pad to use the net.  Peter Millard on youtube did some videos comparing the RTS to Bosch and talked about using abranet on the sander so I am 99% sure its not an issue with the pad saver .

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7570
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2021, 09:52 AM »
Abranet for the DTS has no benefit, only downsides. You need to use an extra padsaver to protect your pad, while DC stays the same as with normal paper because the sander still has only 7 holes.

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2021, 09:58 AM »
Both RTS and DTS Sanders are great. DTS is better at corners. RTS has some other pads available like the interface pad for slight curves and contours. Both ate balanced to me and they supposedly work with the right angle attachment for perpendicular edges ( have not tried that yet). Cordless would be nice if you are on a tall ladder or outside on a ladder but I would not bother for regular shop use.

i thought the edge attachement is only available for the ETS EC 125 ?  if that works on an RTS, that might be a game changer.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8759
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2021, 10:10 AM »
before i go all trigger happy, i presume there is no problem using abranet on the RTS/DTS ?

Festool sells Granat Net for both the RTS & DTS along with protection pads for both.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8759
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2021, 10:25 AM »
i thought the edge attachement is only available for the ETS EC 125 ?  if that works on an RTS, that might be a game changer.

Here's a DTS installed in the Positioning Aid, the RTS will also fit with a slight modification to the PA housing.

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/edge-sanding-guide-(205316)-for-etsetsc125/msg631835/#msg631835


« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 10:31 AM by Cheese »

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2021, 10:40 AM »
so this is the last thing sanded and I found the 6" ETS wobbly and started to take more off the edges than the middle, but i could have also done with an interface pad on the front of the legs as they are slightly convex.  Is there an interface pad for the DTS to allow slight curves?


Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 89
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2021, 11:07 AM »
before i go all trigger happy, i presume there is no problem using abranet on the RTS/DTS ?

I can confirm the RTS+Granat net pad+abranet works fine.  I was having issues sourcing Granat in sane quantities so I went down this route.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 816
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2021, 01:00 PM »
Regarding the pad of the DTS: there is an aftermarket pad available, made out of plywood by beqwaam (at) nl
Dutch language only. Webshop link top right. Look voor "Schuren - …", sub "Schuurzool - festool": Top left product.
I don’t have experience with this product (my DTS is still fresh in the box) and do not know if they ship anywhere but my home country, but it seems a valid alternative to the standard pad.


The positioning aid can be used with the DTS and RTS, but as Sedge noted in a recent IG, those sanders have a linear motion and thus use only a small part of the sandpaper on the edge, causing the sandpaper to degrade very fast.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE · Vecturo 18 Li · TID 18 · TKS 80 EBS-Set · DTS 400 · ETS EC 125 w 150 pad · Surfix Set · CTL SYS · CT-VA-20 · … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer: A3 31 Silent Power · N4400 · HS950 | TaigaTools: VacPods Pro Set
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Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2021, 01:10 PM »
Regarding the pad of the DTS: there is an aftermarket pad available, made out of plywood by beqwaam (at) nl
Dutch language only. Webshop link top right. Look voor "Schuren - …", sub "Schuurzool - festool": Top left product.
I don’t have experience with this product (my DTS is still fresh in the box) and do not know if they ship anywhere but my home country, but it seems a valid alternative to the standard pad.


The positioning aid can be used with the DTS and RTS, but as Sedge noted in a recent IG, those sanders have a linear motion and thus use only a small part of the sandpaper on the edge, causing the sandpaper to degrade very fast.

apologies, I meant like a sponge pad for slight convex curves. doesnt matter now though, i pulld the trigger and got the DTS :)

As always, thanks for all your help guys, its much appreciated.




Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1055
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2021, 04:54 AM »
Regarding the pad of the DTS: there is an aftermarket pad available, made out of plywood by beqwaam (at) nl
Dutch language only. Webshop link top right. Look voor "Schuren - …", sub "Schuurzool - festool": Top left product.
I don’t have experience with this product (my DTS is still fresh in the box) and do not know if they ship anywhere but my home country, but it seems a valid alternative to the standard pad.


The positioning aid can be used with the DTS and RTS, but as Sedge noted in a recent IG, those sanders have a linear motion and thus use only a small part of the sandpaper on the edge, causing the sandpaper to degrade very fast.

apologies, I meant like a sponge pad for slight convex curves. doesnt matter now though, i pulld the trigger and got the DTS :)

As always, thanks for all your help guys, its much appreciated.

No, Festool only has those pads in D77, D90, D120 (125?), D150 (two heights), D215 (225?) and for the RTS.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 09:49 AM by Coen »

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 464
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2021, 05:41 AM »
F/tool's sanders aren't purpose designed for Abranet abrasives.  They will fit, & will work, to a point.  But their paper-abrasive bases lack the numbers of suction holes in dedicated mesh sanders like Indasa, Mirka & Delmeq.  Many (all?) of the smallest holes in F/tool bases are merely air-bleed holes that aid extraction with paper abrasives.

I've had 5 Mirka sanders & one Delmeq over the years with nary a hint of trouble:  3 DEROS in 150, 125/150 & 77mm bases; 8mm, 5mm & 3mm orbits respectvely @ DEOS Rectangular & a Delmeq Delta clone.  The latter is probably the best of them as it lacks any of those stupid Plug-It type power cords which is a major source of unreliability in all the F/tool & Mirka tools respectively.  Not that I've ever encountered any problems.  My power cords always stay firmly attached to my sanders & other tools at all times, thereby eliminating the poor connectivity/resistance issues that others seem to experience.  I just run a multi outlet power board inline with my extractor instead.

F/tool once allowed buyers the choice of proper hardwired power cords as well, but this seems to have discontinued.  A more cynical punter might consider it a sensible way to rack up extra spare-part sales I suppose!

Another significant advantage of Mirka's product is their light weight.  All being some 20-66% lighter than the German equivalents.  Telling after a day in use.  The other is the tools' speed.  Even the smallest orbits are still 20% more aggressive than their German counterparts, with similar reductions in sanding times as a consequence.  F/tools sanders are now looking a bit dated & crude in comparison these days.

The 8mm DEROS is a fair competitor to a Rotex, and even a Fein 200mm sander in terms of speed & aggressiveness.  It has, of course, far superior ergonomics and handling characteristics too, of course.  My Gen-2 RO-150 became redundant almost instantly.

F/tool traditionally has a far wider range of paper abrasives available for their range of sanders, however, with incompatible hole patterns to their competitor/s.  Their mesh abrasives, however are necessarily rather limited.  There's still an extensive range different grades of both mesh & paper abrasives from the likes of Mirka, Sia, Klingspor & a host of others for the Mirk's & their clones.  At substantially more competitive prices too.  You could theoretically pay for a new Mirka sander in abrasive savings alone in a year or 2!

Just my tuppenn'orth!
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2021, 06:22 AM »
F/tool's sanders aren't purpose designed for Abranet abrasives.  They will fit, & will work, to a point.  But their paper-abrasive bases lack the numbers of suction holes in dedicated mesh sanders like Indasa, Mirka & Delmeq.  Many (all?) of the smallest holes in F/tool bases are merely air-bleed holes that aid extraction with paper abrasives.

I've had 5 Mirka sanders & one Delmeq over the years with nary a hint of trouble:  3 DEROS in 150, 125/150 & 77mm bases; 8mm, 5mm & 3mm orbits respectvely @ DEOS Rectangular & a Delmeq Delta clone.  The latter is probably the best of them as it lacks any of those stupid Plug-It type power cords which is a major source of unreliability in all the F/tool & Mirka tools respectively.  Not that I've ever encountered any problems.  My power cords always stay firmly attached to my sanders & other tools at all times, thereby eliminating the poor connectivity/resistance issues that others seem to experience.  I just run a multi outlet power board inline with my extractor instead.

F/tool once allowed buyers the choice of proper hardwired power cords as well, but this seems to have discontinued.  A more cynical punter might consider it a sensible way to rack up extra spare-part sales I suppose!

Another significant advantage of Mirka's product is their light weight.  All being some 20-66% lighter than the German equivalents.  Telling after a day in use.  The other is the tools' speed.  Even the smallest orbits are still 20% more aggressive than their German counterparts, with similar reductions in sanding times as a consequence.  F/tools sanders are now looking a bit dated & crude in comparison these days.

The 8mm DEROS is a fair competitor to a Rotex, and even a Fein 200mm sander in terms of speed & aggressiveness.  It has, of course, far superior ergonomics and handling characteristics too, of course.  My Gen-2 RO-150 became redundant almost instantly.

F/tool traditionally has a far wider range of paper abrasives available for their range of sanders, however, with incompatible hole patterns to their competitor/s.  Their mesh abrasives, however are necessarily rather limited.  There's still an extensive range different grades of both mesh & paper abrasives from the likes of Mirka, Sia, Klingspor & a host of others for the Mirk's & their clones.  At substantially more competitive prices too.  You could theoretically pay for a new Mirka sander in abrasive savings alone in a year or 2!

Just my tuppenn'orth!

goddammit! i hate being soo indecisive.

Thanks for your input. i have now ordered BOTH the DTS400 and Mirka DEOS 663CV and ill return the one i don't like.

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2021, 06:24 AM »
quick update.

Both have turned up, and heres my brief summation.

Festool is a bit top heavy due to how tall it is which is a bit disappointing.

Mirka, despite being over £100 more expensive doesn't come with systainer or hose.
much lower profile which is nice, but much longer than i thought.
the delta doesn't come with bluetooth (not that it matters)

outcome is the mirka is going back, ill just have to live with the very tall festool

Offline afish

  • Posts: 586
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2021, 08:33 AM »
Sometimes tall and stubby are better.  Its one of the things I like most about it.  I primarily bought mine for touching up the inside of drawers.  The Mirka was way to long which is a huge problem for my need.  the way the Festool is more compact and the angled dust hose helps get it into tighter spots for myself.  At the end of the day it really depends on the end users uses and needs. 

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2021, 11:04 AM »


i thought the edge attachement is only available for the ETS EC 125 ?  if that works on an RTS, that might be a game changer.

   Not the 'EC' model.   


Seth

Offline craigsalisbury75

  • Posts: 15
Re: stress deciding a sander :/
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2021, 11:28 AM »
Sometimes tall and stubby are better.  Its one of the things I like most about it.  I primarily bought mine for touching up the inside of drawers.  The Mirka was way to long which is a huge problem for my need.  the way the Festool is more compact and the angled dust hose helps get it into tighter spots for myself.  At the end of the day it really depends on the end users uses and needs.

Been using the DTS today, surprisingly stable on a 45 bevel edge, nice and flat and crisp edges, that'll do me just fine.