Author Topic: Sander and dust extractor system  (Read 1171 times)

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Offline Craig1961

  • Posts: 6
Sander and dust extractor system
« on: February 12, 2020, 10:16 PM »
Good evening, I hope this finds you well. I am new to the woodworking community, ~ 24 months and continue to add tools to my shop as my skills increase. At my age of 58 i am attempting to purchase the right tool one time. At this time i do not own any Festool products. As i continue to grow in the hobby and learning more about the equipment and tools i am looking more into the Festool products.

Currently i am considering a new sander and dust extraction system. My current thoughts are the rotex 125 or 150 along with the appropriate dust extraction system. Currently my only sander is a Makita which has worked well to date; however, i would like to upgrade. I also am hopeful to purchase a domino and track saw in the months to come that i would also use the dust extraction with. I continue to enjoy all aspects of woodworking that i have tried so far and want to continue to attempt to make good purchases.

Thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide for this purchase or future tools that i should consider as i add to my shop.

Craig

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Offline VirTERM

  • Posts: 89
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2020, 10:34 PM »
I would suggest the ro150 due to larger sanding area and better overall reviews. As per the dc, I have ct26 and I am very happy. I do not travel with it, so the extra weight over midi does not matter, but I like straight hose connection and larger bag capacity.
Just my 2c

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 231
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2020, 10:43 PM »
Welcome.

What are you going to be sanding primarily ? 

Rotex 150 is a heck of sander.  Great for flattening slabs, removing finishes from large panels or decks - but it stinks if your prepping face frames and other small / narrow projects for.  You cannot use it one handed.  Much the same applies to the RO125.  If you need the geared, heavy stock removal like a belt sander then fine.  Otherwise RO's are not really a good choice for first sander.  If you're just needing larger surface area - then one of the other 150mm sanders might be more appropriate.

The "appropriate" dust collector is whichever one fits your space and budget.  All the Festool CT's have relatively the same ooomph - they differ only in collection volume.  There is a new one available this spring that is cheaper and looks attractive on price, but has less features.

Domino is a handy tool if you're making things that use a lot of mortice and tenon.  I suspect many of them are really just collector purchases.  Mine included.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 10:46 PM by xedos »

Offline Craig1961

  • Posts: 6
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2020, 11:00 PM »
Good evening. Thank you for the counsel. Given that i am new to the hobby I am not sure what my long term plans are. My thought regarding the RO is that i could also use it for heavy stock removal and sanding larger tops as i do not have a drum sander. I am hoping that I could also use it for smaller projects. I had considered the drum sander first; however, i as thought more about it i think it makes more sense to purchase a good sander and dust extraction first. I think that is the right decision.

 Your comment regarding the domino is exactly why i have not purchased one yet. At this time i believe i will use the sander and extractor much more than the domino. I continue to look at other options for cutting mortise and tenon joints or just cutting mortises and making my own tenons. We will see how it goes.

Thanks again for the guidance.

Craig

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 231
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2020, 11:48 PM »
Based on what you've laid out, I'd say a EC125 would be a better purchase.   You can get a 150mm pad and convert it if you ned larger surface sanding.    It won't do the work of a belt sander or rotex; but let's be honest - if you're talking or need a drum sander, then rotex just won't be as good as that. 

I know rotex is hyped as an SUV sander, but it's just a dog in my opinion for most small projects and finish prep.  Perhaps an festool ETS125 and a Bosch's GET75 would be a good combo and still leave you $150+ for sandpaper ?

A router and a jig can make loose tenon joinery pretty well.  Is it as fast and efficient as Domino ?  Nope.  Doesn't cost a grand though.  And domino is a one trick pony.   If you do a lot of casegoods, then something like Mafell's DD40 might be better.

Tracksaw is a game changer for some.  Especially those that are mobile, cut lots of large panels, or who's shops are tight.  If your shop is large enough to support a tablesaw - those are better for just about everything except breaking down full sheets of ply into manageable sizes.


Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1546
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2020, 08:27 AM »
Good evening. Thank you for the counsel. Given that i am new to the hobby I am not sure what my long term plans are. My thought regarding the RO is that i could also use it for heavy stock removal and sanding larger tops as i do not have a drum sander. I am hoping that I could also use it for smaller projects. I had considered the drum sander first; however, i as thought more about it i think it makes more sense to purchase a good sander and dust extraction first. I think that is the right decision.
My Rotex 150 (the old one) was my only sander for the first years of more then once-a-year hobby woodworking, worked out nicely as it is versatile (from rough shaping with coarse paper in rotex mode to getting a reasonable finish with high grits in random orbit). I would suggest to get your hand on one to test it.

Quote
Your comment regarding the domino is exactly why i have not purchased one yet. At this time i believe i will use the sander and extractor much more than the domino. I continue to look at other options for cutting mortise and tenon joints or just cutting mortises and making my own tenons. We will see how it goes.
The Domino basically enables anyone to create professional grade mortise/tenon connections out of the box (ok, maybe watch 1/2 hour of 'youtube festool domino howto'). It's an absolute game changer and nothing comparable is available from other vendors, the nearest to it would be a Mafell DD40 (which is similar in price but doesn't offer the connectors).

Extraction is needed for both, I would suggest you think about a MIDI.

I can only suggest to keep in mind that the resale value of most Festool stuff is around 70-80% of NIB (at least here in EU in case you're in no hurry), should you decide to no longer need certain tools. They also offer this.

Offline jcrowe1950

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  • Posts: 38
    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2020, 08:30 AM »
Good evening, I hope this finds you well. I am new to the woodworking community, ~ 24 months and continue to add tools to my shop as my skills increase. At my age of 58 i am attempting to purchase the right tool one time. At this time i do not own any Festool products. As i continue to grow in the hobby and learning more about the equipment and tools i am looking more into the Festool products.

Currently i am considering a new sander and dust extraction system. My current thoughts are the rotex 125 or 150 along with the appropriate dust extraction system. Currently my only sander is a Makita which has worked well to date; however, i would like to upgrade. I also am hopeful to purchase a domino and track saw in the months to come that i would also use the dust extraction with. I continue to enjoy all aspects of woodworking that i have tried so far and want to continue to attempt to make good purchases.

Thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide for this purchase or future tools that i should consider as i add to my shop.

Craig
Hi Craig,

     I can tell you my experiences. Note: I work for a Festool dealer and have helped many customers through the decision process. WRT, a sander....IMO, spend the money for an ETS EC 150/5 upfront. Here is my reasoning. The Rotex 150 is a great sander but the ergonomics of it are that you actually have to use both hands on it because of the way it extends from the center of the tool. That makes it a more challenging to keep the pad flat to the surface. The ETS EC 150/5 has a 6" pad (essentially) and provides 44% more sanding surface than the 125s. This makes a difference when you are sanding large surfaces. Regardless of which sander you choose of the ROS, turn your dust extractor all the way down when sanding (exception being Rotex in gear driven mode where that does not matter). The reason for this is that the rotation aspect of the ROS can be impaired by too much suction, leading to swirl marks. In any case, as a one time purchase of your first Festool sander the ETS EC with the low profile is, to me, the most comfortable option. If you can justify the extra expense, I chose to also get an ETS EC 125/3 as a finish sander. Beyond these considerations, it makes sense to standardize on Granat as your abrasive. A little pricier than Rubin, Granat is more appropriate for surfaces other than raw wood. Finally, if you are sanding large, flat surfaces, consider purchasing a hard pad. My final piece of advice is, go to a competent Festool dealer and ask for a demo. If you are ever in Chattanooga, come to Woodcraft and we can show you the ropes.
   WRT the domino, I'd ask what your potential uses are. The D500 is a great machine but it is a little limited for large applications. For casework, however, it is a great choice. If your intent is to build external doors or farm tables, the D700 will fit your bill. The Domino machines are pricey but they really do excel at their intended purpose. As another person posted, you can do M&T joints with a router (I have for years), but the Domino makes the job much faster and potentially with much more precision and accuracy.
    The same goes for the track saw. If you are doing primarily casework in solid wood or sheet goods, I'd think the TS 55 would be a good match. If you want to glue-line rip 2.5" slabs, the TS 75 would be a good fit. Like with the sanders, proper use of the appropriate accessories is helpful. For ripping operations, use the 28tooth blade for the 55 and the 36tooth blade for the 75.
     I hope this is not overwhelming but if you have any further questions, let me know. FWIW, I was around your age when I purchased my first Festool tool.
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 231
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2020, 10:50 AM »
Quote
For ripping operations, use the 28tooth blade for the 55 a

Actually, the 12 tooth "panther" blade # 496305 is the correct choice for ripping with the ts55.

Offline Dove_Tail

  • Posts: 20
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2020, 01:04 PM »
Hi Craig,

Welcome to woodworking and FOG.

jcrowe pretty much nailed it.  I own both a Rotex and an ETS EC 125/3.  I use the ETS 98% of the time.  I may pull out the Rotex for leveling on rougher stock.  I standardized on 5" and on Granat paper as well.

I own the DF 700 Domino.  Although larger and a little more money, it has all the capability of the 500 and more.  Plus, with the cutter adapter from Seneca Woodworking, you can run all the 500 cutters in the 700.  If I were to buy again, I'd get the 700 again.

Although it's been said, the track saw is a game changer.  I have the 55 and have never had a need for the 75.  The 55 is all you need for 3/4" stock.  That being said, I just used the 55 with my track to put a straight line rip on 8/4 mahogany.  With a rip blade, it was very easy.

When you get ready to buy the rail, I recommend you buy the "holey" rail.  It has holes at 32mm increments.  This is nice to have if you decide to get into the LR32 system down the line.

Cheers,
Mark



Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6890
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2020, 01:18 PM »
Another option is you can purchase an ETS EC 125 and put a 150 mm pad on it if you need to cover more territory.

The ETS EC 125 and the ETS EC 150 are the same sander except for the drive shaft that the pad attaches to. A 150 pad fits the 125 sander while a 125 pad will NOT fit the 150 sander.

Plus it’s $100 cheaper.

Offline jcrowe1950

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    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2020, 09:07 PM »
Quote
For ripping operations, use the 28tooth blade for the 55 a

Actually, the 12 tooth "panther" blade # 496305 is the correct choice for ripping with the ts55.
   Not for glue line rips. The Panther blade is great for rough ripping....for smooth surfaces not so much.
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN

Offline jcrowe1950

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    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2020, 10:08 PM »
Another option is you can purchase an ETS EC 125 and put a 150 mm pad on it if you need to cover more territory.

The ETS EC 125 and the ETS EC 150 are the same sander except for the drive shaft that the pad attaches to. A 150 pad fits the 125 sander while a 125 pad will NOT fit the 150 sander.

Plus it’s $100 cheaper.
Cheese is correct in his observation that the sanders have similar motors etc. However, the 125 only comes in a 3mm version and what I did was to purchase the 150/5 for doing up to 150 grit and the 125/3 for higher grits. For individual choice it makes sense to balance value vs. price. I am not making a recommendation here, just sharing my experiences. The housings are a little different and there are bits that differ, but internally probably the same....I am not willing to dig into mine to see the difference.
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN

Offline Craig1961

  • Posts: 6
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2020, 03:41 PM »
All
Thank you for all of the responses and guidance. This education is why i reached out to the Festool community. Based on the responses and the fact that i want to purchase a drum sander as some point i think i am going to go with the ETS EC 125 or 150. With that decision behind me i am on to dust extraction. I intend for most of my projects to be done in my shop in lieu of on a jobsite. As i look at the different options there is a considerable price jump from the midi to 26 (without bluetooth) , ~$140.00. From the 26 to the 36 is ~ $60.00. If the 26 is what i needed i could easily talk myself in to the additional $60.00 for the 36. I assume there are some real differences between the Midi and the 26 that drive he additional cost that i am not aware of. However given my intended use the Midi may suit my needs just fine. As mentioned in the original post i do plan on adding the track saw and potentially a domino to my tool arsenal as my needs and skills advance

Thank you in advance for any further assistance that you can provide.

Craig

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 410
Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2020, 04:13 PM »
Most people who like to stay moderately mobile or compact seem tk prefer the Midi. I did, the cost was a factor for plus lugging it up and down stairs there is a significant size and weight difference (especially when full). The 26 has more aftermarket options and attachments available I think and in a pure shop situation the size and weight don't really matter. The 36 and 48 are simply bigger and as far as I'm aware (not an expert on those models) basically the same.

With just a domino, some sanders and a tracksaw your bags should last a long time though, even if you took a midi. In a shop situation you might also consider a cyclone style pre-separator which would negate the need for big bags completely.

Offline jcrowe1950

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Re: Sander and dust extractor system
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2020, 05:55 PM »
Most people who like to stay moderately mobile or compact seem tk prefer the Midi. I did, the cost was a factor for plus lugging it up and down stairs there is a significant size and weight difference (especially when full). The 26 has more aftermarket options and attachments available I think and in a pure shop situation the size and weight don't really matter. The 36 and 48 are simply bigger and as far as I'm aware (not an expert on those models) basically the same.

With just a domino, some sanders and a tracksaw your bags should last a long time though, even if you took a midi. In a shop situation you might also consider a cyclone style pre-separator which would negate the need for big bags completely.
Great advice. The Mini and Midi share all the guts and differ in bag capacity. The same is true for the 26/36/48. There are insignificant differences between the two basic units. The Mini/Midi received the most recent upgrade adding built-in bluetooth, a sittable top and a sort of filter bag decrusting mechanism. As observed by others, the Mini/Midi are easy to move about. My personal choice was the CT26 as an upgrade to an earlier CT22. I chose it so I can create a rolling workstation by adding the WCR1000 on top and some systainers for storing things like dominos, marking and measuring tools, pliers, dead blow hammers. This gives me a place to put tools between cuts and to store my various MFT accessories like clamps, parallel guides etc. I did not originate this approach as this is the setup at every Festool enduser or dealer training class I've been to and it works well for me. This is not a portable unit by any means. One real benefit to participating in these forums is that so many people have such creative solutions for their applications that they willingly share......it's a very nice community.
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN