Author Topic: Routers  (Read 4761 times)

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Offline SHVentus

  • Posts: 12
Routers
« on: May 17, 2023, 06:33 PM »
I've noticed that with my Festool routers, the router base edge:bit distance isn't uniform as you rotate the router while routing. All of my other (cheaper) routers over the years, from Sears, Dewalt, Porter Cable, etc would maintain a uniform distance from the router edge to the bit over nearly a 270-360 degree rotation of the router. With my Festool routers, I have to maintain a uniform orientation  as I rout a line. Anyone else?

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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Routers
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2023, 07:01 PM »
Never noticed that. I will measure mine.
Birdhunter

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1285
Re: Routers
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2023, 07:03 PM »
I've noticed that with my Festool routers, the router base edge:bit distance isn't uniform as you rotate the router while routing. All of my other (cheaper) routers over the years, from Sears, Dewalt, Porter Cable, etc would maintain a uniform distance from the router edge to the bit over nearly a 270-360 degree rotation of the router. With my Festool routers, I have to maintain a uniform orientation  as I rout a line. Anyone else?
Well, the router base is not a reference edge/surface. Making it *seem* like it is - the case of the cheaper routers - can be detrimental in confusing the user.

For the base edge to be usable as a (true) reference surface, Festool would have to custom-machine each individual base matching it with the specific spindle installed in that individual tool. This could be done accurately only with something attached to the spindle of the router itself. I cannot imagine doing this (practically) in a factory. Besides, this would have to be re-done after each service where either the spindle, chassis or the base are replaced. A nightmare to maintain.

Festool designers seem to have a culture (habbit ?) so that any surface or edge which is not a reference surface by design of the tool is made in such a way - be it on purpose or by not caring - that it is obvious one cannot/should not use it as a reference.

Being of an engineering background, I personally consider that a benefit/feature as it makes for tools which are a bit fool(Me)-proof. The price being that some valid "absolute accuracy not needed" use cases are thrown out along with the bathwater..
« Last Edit: May 17, 2023, 07:12 PM by mino »
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Offline Coen

  • Posts: 2195
Re: Routers
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2023, 09:09 PM »
With my Festool routers, I have to maintain a uniform orientation  as I rout a line. Anyone else?

Huh no. I will orient the router in whichever way suits me best for holding it and for the route (haha) the hose takes. A line isn't routed any different regardless of rotating of the router itself over it's spindle.

Also keep in mind the Festool routers have asymmetrically placed columns (to facilitate easier bit change) unlike the cheaper routers.

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 351
Re: Routers
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2023, 11:00 PM »
This is why the template guide collars aren't centered., which is a major PITA.

Offline luvmytoolz

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Re: Routers
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2023, 12:04 AM »
Actually, the Festool routers have centre lines engraved on the sides of the base to be able to align reference points by eye, which if they aren't bang on makes them pretty useless.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1285
Re: Routers
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2023, 02:30 AM »
This is why the template guide collars aren't centered., which is a major PITA.
Correct.
An that is also why the OF1010 is the precise router for template work - it has no template pre-positioning and requires centering the templates using a mandrel, making sure it is aligned with the spindle itself.

Actually, the Festool routers have centre lines engraved on the sides of the base to be able to align reference points by eye, which if they aren't bang on makes them pretty useless.
These centre lines being 0.2mm /0.01"/ off is not ideal, but not really a problem as they do not move their position during work. At worst, when using a guide rail, one will get the groove off a bit *but* the groove itself will still be straight. Besides the point that an etching is obvious eyeball-precision level thing. There no matter how precise it would be, one can never position the router "bang-on" with mode than 0.01" or so. This is different with guides/templates when one expects/needs precision.
 
What the OP refers is the diameter of the base (the edge position via-a-vis the spindle) being non-constant. Here, being the the same 0.2 mm off, will result in a non-straight "wavy" groove being routed. An unusable outcome in precision-needed cases.

Hope I am making sense here.
And yes, it would be really nice if the etching of the (still approximate) bit center was machined. It can never be precise like a mandrel, but making it as precise as the templates on the 1400/2200 are is certainly doable .. at least for the OF 1010 being the "precise" router int he lineup such could be justified IMO. One can dream, right?
 [smile]

@Festool USA
On the last point, please feed back to HQ for when next OF update is planned ... it may not be that hard/expensive to add that onto the CNC profile for routing the bases a CNC-precision notches for the centers instead of the casted-precision ones of todat.
The Machine has no brains. Use Yours!

Offline bobtskutter

  • Posts: 161
Re: Routers
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2023, 03:42 AM »
I was going to post something about this myself but ShVentus bet me to it!

The rounded sides of the base on my OF1400 don't form a circle with the bit at the center.  The rounded base is most accurate if you can hold the bit center line mark against the straight edge and get's worse the further away you rotate the router away from the marker.  (I hope that makes sense, can't remember which is the most accurate marker).

The router guide bush isn't centralised either, it's about 0.5mm off (measured with a calibrated eye ball and new glasses).  I don't do kitchen fitting, but it does surprise me that there's no adjustment on the guide bush mount.  Ok, I could take it apart and file down locking pin then reposition the mount.  But I just use bearing guided bits.

regards
Bob

Offline SHVentus

  • Posts: 12
Re: Routers
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2023, 01:46 PM »
All make good points. All I was saying is that if you anchor down a straight fence across a piece of ply, and place a straight fluted bit in the router, and run the router against the fence, unless you keep the exact same point of the base against the fence as you make the cut, your routed groove will at best be wavy (groovy), and if you rotate the router 360 as you make the cut (vacuum hose and power cable tossing you about), you will have a tremendously wandering cut - to ad fro.

Online jeffinsgf

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Re: Routers
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2023, 04:17 PM »
But, if you use the tool as designed, that is with it captured on a guide rail, your groove will be perfectly straight, with no risk of drifting away from your straight-edge fence.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2857
Re: Routers
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2023, 05:14 PM »
But, if you use the tool as designed, that is with it captured on a guide rail, your groove will be perfectly straight, with no risk of drifting away from your straight-edge fence.

Exactly. They have no intent of you running the base along anything. You are supposed to use a guide rail for straight lines and a copy-ring (bushing) for other shapes.
It is always "best practice" to keep the router oriented the same way as you follow the pattern.
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Offline SHVentus

  • Posts: 12
Re: Routers
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2023, 05:29 PM »
But you can't always use a guide rail. I have 2 projects right now that I'm working on, and I can't use any of my guide rails for them, only a fence.

Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 440
Re: Routers
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2023, 07:19 PM »
Cut an acrylic sub-base that has your centered radius?  It'd look hokey, but it is what the other routers do for accurate following.  As others said, the cast bases here and there may look close but are not guaranteed like the acrylic bases are.

Offline SHVentus

  • Posts: 12
Re: Routers
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2023, 07:25 PM »
Thanks woodferret

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Routers
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2023, 08:45 PM »
https://microfence.com

Best fences available are from Micro Fence IMHO

HTH


Online jeffinsgf

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Re: Routers
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2023, 09:45 PM »
But you can't always use a guide rail. I have 2 projects right now that I'm working on, and I can't use any of my guide rails for them, only a fence.

If your piece is too narrow for a guide rail, won't the edge guide work?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10756
Re: Routers
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2023, 12:20 AM »
For accurate router movement, I employ either the Festool guide rail or the Micro Fence guide system...both work well.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6217
Re: Routers
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2023, 06:53 AM »
The Festool routers have a flat side, use that.

Sounds like the size of the router is also a problem. Use a small trim router and fence. Probably have to make a custom fence to get closer to the obstruction.

I have a lot of round base routers and none of the bases are truly concentric with the spindle axis. The closest is nearly .01” off. Some people think that’s close enough…

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2993
Re: Routers
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2023, 08:55 AM »
Using routers for 50 years has led me to many work arounds over the years.  When I needed a perfectly base perfectly centered, and I don't remember why, I made a platform with a 1/4" guide clamped to my stationary belt/disc sander and rotated the router against the belt carefully until exactly concentric.  Actually it my have been the PC that I use on my Leigh dovetail/finger joint jig.

Offline SHVentus

  • Posts: 12
Re: Routers
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2023, 01:27 PM »
Thank you all. I have the MFK 700, OF 1400, and the OF 2200.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 2195
Re: Routers
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2023, 02:08 PM »

An that is also why the OF1010 is the precise router for template work - it has no template pre-positioning and requires centering the templates using a mandrel, making sure it is aligned with the spindle itself.


One of my OF 1010 rings was supplied with countersunk screws. It doesnt matter what you do with the mandrel.  I replaced the screws, obviously. Didn't occur to me that I should have complained/returned it back then.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 07:35 PM by Coen »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2857
Re: Routers
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2023, 06:31 PM »
The Festool routers have a flat side, use that.

Sounds like the size of the router is also a problem. Use a small trim router and fence. Probably have to make a custom fence to get closer to the obstruction.

I have a lot of round base routers and none of the bases are truly concentric with the spindle axis. The closest is nearly .01” off. Some people think that’s close enough…

Though it seems like it should be the right thing to do, that will get you into trouble very quickly.
Even if a round base is slightly off center, a minor rotation of the router will make a very slight variance, plus it will be so gradual as to be un-noticeable. However, allowing a flat base to rotate makes a very noticeable "bump". It's easy enough to do with a small palm-sized router, most of which are effectively cylindrical, but that handle on A Festool router might make that worse?
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Offline SHVentus

  • Posts: 12
Re: Routers
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2023, 07:55 PM »
Crazy Question:

Using the MFK 700 with the edge guide: If I place the edge guide along the edge of 3/!6" aluminum plate, bring the straight bit to the edge, then back off the edge guide 0.1-0.2 mm and run the router along the edge, will I get a nice straight cut, or just "F" it up?

Offline SHVentus

  • Posts: 12
Re: Routers
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2023, 01:31 PM »
I figure that if I. place a shim equal to the amount I want to rout off (0.1mm) behind the following portion of the edge guide, I should have a "portable router table".

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2857
Re: Routers
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2023, 02:50 PM »
Crazy Question:

Using the MFK 700 with the edge guide: If I place the edge guide along the edge of 3/!6" aluminum plate, bring the straight bit to the edge, then back off the edge guide 0.1-0.2 mm and run the router along the edge, will I get a nice straight cut, or just "F" it up?

Part of the way, it will be ok, but eventually you are going to get snipe. The only way it could work is if the part of the fence behind the bit contacted the cut portion of the wood.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55,FS800, FS1080, FS1400/ LR32, FS1900, FS 2424/ LR32, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set, Bluetooth remote
CT15
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
RTS 400
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set
Pliers set
TS60