Author Topic: RAS alternative?  (Read 5189 times)

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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1141
RAS alternative?
« on: November 19, 2021, 10:59 AM »
I missed the boat on the RAS when it was discounted. Didn't think I'd want one at the time. Now I kind of do. Is there anything out there that is comparable with the RAS? I'd like something with dust control.

Or on the off chance someone has one collecting dust, let me know.

Thanks,
Matt
Instagram @matts.garage

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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 854
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2021, 12:39 PM »
When I see "RAS", I think "radial arm saw".  I think you are talking about a sander.  A thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money for a sander though.

Google "shopping" shows this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Festool+RAS&source=lmns&tbm=shop&bih=775&biw=1600&client=firefox-b-1-d&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwqvnQ-6T0AhXahXIEHWGrDAcQ_AUoAXoECAEQAQ#spd=9689429490989440557

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9109
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2021, 12:59 PM »
When I see "RAS", I think "radial arm saw".  I think you are talking about a sander.  A thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money for a sander though.

That's for the 180 mm version which was never released in the States. The smaller RAS 115 version which is what Matt is referring to was around $300-$350 before they were discontinued.

Before I purchased the RAS I used a Milwaukee RA grinder with sanding discs. I'd say that for the amount of material removed it was equivalent to the RAS but without any dust containment is was really messy.  [sad]

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1141
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2021, 01:01 PM »
So if I give up the dust extraction, any right angle grinder will suffice? Having cordless could be an advantage just have to take it outside.

Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9109
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2021, 01:38 PM »
So if I give up the dust extraction, any right angle grinder will suffice? Having cordless could be an advantage just have to take it outside.

Yup...I use the RAS with a vac inside and the Milwaukee cordless RA grinder outside when cleanliness doesn't matter. I just wish they both used the same shaft mount...that'd be really nice, 5/8-11 vs M14. You can also attach wire wheels and wire cups to the RA grinder to clean things up.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2712
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2021, 01:47 PM »
Metabo has a lot of options with dust collection, I have their concrete grinder but the brush styles very similar to Festools RAS hood Grinding Extraction Hood GED 125 (626732000).

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1556
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2021, 02:13 PM »
@DynaGlide it probably helpful question is what are you wanting to do with it?

Ron

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1141
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2021, 02:17 PM »
@rvieceli Just looking to add another scribing tool to my arsenal for sneaking up to the line, either fitting cabinets or coping trim.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1556
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2021, 02:29 PM »
Then just about any right angle grinder will work with a sanding disk backer pad. Most of the battery platforms have a cordless one available. As for dust collection, use it outside as Cheese suggests or rig up an inlet box for your shop dust collector and position your work in front of that. There are several examples on the interweb about solutions for wood turners using similar boxes.

Ron

Offline doug_m

  • Posts: 30
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2021, 02:38 PM »
This Arbortech Power carving unit has a 100mm sanding pad, dust collection and fairly low rpms.
https://www.arbortechtools.com/ce/power-carving-unit/

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4209
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2021, 02:41 PM »
@rvieceli Just looking to add another scribing tool to my arsenal for sneaking up to the line, either fitting cabinets or coping trim.

Matt, why not use an RO 90 or RO 125 and get a bunch more use out of your choice?   [smile]
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 854
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2021, 02:49 PM »
I don't know how effective these are, but most manufacturers seem to sell dust collection for their right angle grinders.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=dust+collection+for+right+angle+grinder

Skip the first minute.  It is about a rotary drill.  The rest is about grinding.


Online Alex

  • Posts: 7740
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2021, 03:23 PM »
I don't think there is an alternative for what the RAS does. I have not seen a dust hood that comes close to that of the RAS. Those things above do not work the same as the RAS dust hood, they are very shallow and only work right if they are completely flat on the surface. Source: I have one for my Protool grinder.

The RAS was specifically designed for removing paint. To do this they took a grinder and lowered the RPM. Back then all grinders had a constant RPM so it was big deal. Now lots of grinders have a speed dial, so it makes no difference anymore. The old grinders at 10.000 were just too aggresive for removing paint, it is very easy to damage the surface at that speed. But at 1500-3800 it becomes very doable. But those grinders still lack the dust shroud, and it is the dust shroud that makes sure the dust is no problem, which is a must IMHO.

Nice topic to see today, just bought my fourth RAS. This one's for polishing glass. They do break easily, while very few Festools I own(ed) broke, I already had to trash two RAS's.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1032
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2021, 03:46 PM »
@rvieceli Just looking to add another scribing tool to my arsenal for sneaking up to the line, either fitting cabinets or coping trim.

Matt, why not use an RO 90 or RO 125 and get a bunch more use out of your choice?   [smile]

It might be a technique issue on my part, but I tried using my RO 90 with some P40 Granat to shorten some shelves and it was slow going, at best, and tortuous at worst.  Maybe I should have used P24, maybe I shouldn't have been trying to shorten rough end-grain mahogany, maybe I needed a harder pad, maybe I was just impatient.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1063
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2021, 04:45 PM »
There’s a Metabo model, Quick INOX that goes down to 2000 rpm (and up to 7600 rpm) Variable speed control with constant speed electronics.
As Alex points out, dust control is more or less non existent.

Metabo US:
https://www.metabo.com/us/enus/tools/cutting-sanding-milling/angle-grinder/angle-grinders-o4-1-2-6/wev-17-125-quick-inox-600517420-angle-grinder.html
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 201
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2021, 05:08 PM »
Hi, I think standard grinder is 5/8 11 thread one of these might work for you with the ras stixfix sanding pads.guy  here you gohttps://www.amazon.com/Stadea-ADC102K-Adapter-Female-Water/dp/B076PZQX79https://www.amazon.com/Stadea-ADC102K-Adapter-Female-Water/dp/B076PZQX79
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 05:16 PM by guybo »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 741
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2021, 06:07 PM »
I admit, I didnt know what a RAS was so I had to look it up.  Its pretty cool but you would need to be scribing to some really funky walls to justify it.  Most scribing shouldnt need it and probably better accomplished using other methods but of course everyone's needs are different.  Most scribes I see are easily handled with a tracksaw and a LA block plane. It's still a cool tool. 

 

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2955
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2021, 06:23 PM »
I use mine for sculpting furniture and it is awesome.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2021, 07:42 PM »
I got mine about 2 years ago, kind of on a whim. I ended up being quite happy that I did. It has been very handy, for many different things. The variable speed is what makes it great. The typical grinder is simply too fast.
My only complaint is the lack of a Plug-it cable. I can get past the oval extractor port, but I would definitely buy an updated version to get the Plug-it. (listening Festool?)
I got it as a hopeful alternative when Porter-Cable discontinued the baby belt sander. I got one of the first ones to hit the market, after being drawn in by magazine ads for a product that wasn't available yet. I had the first one for years, used it way harder than I would think they intended. It would get a little warm in use, but worked well, especially for scribing cabinets.
When it was destroyed, I found out that there were no more to be had. RAS115 to the rescue.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline Pizza Steve

  • Posts: 177
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2021, 07:53 PM »
I'm in the same situation with @Crazyraceguy... I don't use it that much, but it's such a clutch tool for all sorts of random predicaments!

Recently changed a door--stubborn flooring glue to remove?  "Oh, I can use the RAS!"

Rust/junk on metal?  "Brillo pad on RAS will take care of that!"

Scribing?  "Don't need a Collins foot!"

The circular motion is much more predictable and pressure sensitive than my RO90 for small tasks.  And it HOGS if you want it to!


Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 693
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2021, 09:43 AM »
@DynaGlide - It might be a long shot but you might want to keep a close on the Recon site next week. If they have a Black Friday sale you might get lucky and find an RAS 115.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9109
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2021, 10:04 AM »
It might be a technique issue on my part, but I tried using my RO 90 with some P40 Granat to shorten some shelves and it was slow going, at best, and tortuous at worst.  Maybe I should have used P24, maybe I shouldn't have been trying to shorten rough end-grain mahogany, maybe I needed a harder pad, maybe I was just impatient.

The problem lies in the relatively slow rotational rpm combined with the small pad/abrasive diameter on the RO 90. What you really want to do is to attain a high SFPM (surface feet per minute) velocity without going too high causing burning of the surface or premature wear of the abrasive disc from heat.

Here's a quick SFPM rundown on the Rotexes listing model, rpm & SFPM.

RO 90...520 rpm...482 SFPM
RO 125...600 rpm...773 SFPM
RO 150...660 rpm...1022 SFPM

RAS 115...4000 rpm...4747 SFPM
Milwaukee 5" RA...8500 rpm...11,135 SFPM

You can see that the RAS cuts at 10X the speed of the RO 90. The RO 150 just squeaks into the 1000 SFPM realm only by virtue of it's large diameter disc.

Going by the SFPM numbers, you can see why the RAS and all RA grinders are capable of hogging out a lot of material in a short time frame.

However as Alex mentioned the high SFPM tools can easily burn surfaces and that's the reason they need to have variable speed.

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 201
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2021, 01:51 PM »
@rvieceli Just looking to add another scribing tool to my arsenal for sneaking up to the line, either fitting cabinets or coping trim.

Matt, why not use an RO 90 or RO 125 and get a bunch more use out of your choice?   [smile]
  Hi, had I back cut this the 125 ro would have made quick work of this .It took about 2min plus like this
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 02:00 PM by guybo »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2021, 05:48 PM »

RAS 115...4000 rpm...4747 SFPM

You can see that the RAS cuts at 10X the speed of the RO 90. The RO 150 just squeaks into the 1000 SFPM realm only by virtue of it's large diameter disc.

Going by the SFPM numbers, you can see why the RAS and all RA grinders are capable of hogging out a lot of material in a short time frame.

However as Alex mentioned the high SFPM tools can easily burn surfaces and that's the reason they need to have variable speed.

That has to be the max RPM's surface speed, any idea of the minimum speed? That is definitely the advantage of the variable speed. I rarely use it a higher speed because it too will burn rather than cut. When used with course paper so it cuts, rather than rub, it works great. The little 90 degree die-grinder with a Roloc disc, that I would have used in the past, almost can't help itself. When you throttle it down enough to keep from burning, it has no power. They rely on pure speed, no torque at all. I still have one, but it is pretty much metal only at this point.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9109
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2021, 09:22 AM »
That has to be the max RPM's surface speed, any idea of the minimum speed?

Ya, the RAS rotates at 1500-4000 rpm. That equates to 1780-4747 SFPM.
The Milwaukee RA grinder at 3000-8500 rpm equates to 3930-11,135 SFPM.


Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 306
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2021, 01:13 PM »
What would one expect to pay for a new or nearly new RAS 115? I saw a local Craigslist ad for an RAS for $750 US!!! That is insane

Offline Yardbird

  • Posts: 242
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2021, 01:28 PM »
The RAS115 was my first Festool purchase.  In 2019 they discontinued this and I bought one at clearance price at $219, list $370.  I noticed these sell high, so I checked "sold" items on E-Bay.  It shows two that sold, one at $600 and one at $800 used.  I cannot see paying those prices, but just be aware that if  you find one at a decent price, be quick on getting it.  Good luck.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1032
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2021, 02:28 PM »
What would one expect to pay for a new or nearly new RAS 115? I saw a local Craigslist ad for an RAS for $750 US!!! That is insane

For a discontinued, high-demand tool like the RAS, that's not terribly surprising.  Of course, with all things, it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay.

The listings I can't understand are the 15 year-old versions of currently available tools in the classic systainer covered in dirt, sawdust, and all manner of other stuff listed for over retail price.  They're usually accompanied by stock copy from Festool's website as well as "if you know what this is, you know it's worth it" or similar language.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2955
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2021, 11:39 PM »
This is one of those tools where people who have used them appreciate what they do. It was not a mainstream tool like some of the other sanders and likely part of why Fesool discontinued it. just not enough sales volume to warrant it.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1141
Re: RAS alternative?
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2021, 08:07 AM »
A member who read this thread reached out to me and sold me his older unit. Should be getting here this week. I'm looking forward to trying it out. ;)
Instagram @matts.garage