Author Topic: Question about TSO Parallel Guide System: Right Hand versus "Both Hands" Kit  (Read 2820 times)

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Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 31
Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6257
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
I beta test for TSO.

That out of the way. We process 100’s of sheets a month. For us, the dual arm system works very well.

A video of a single arm ripping 96". It is very doable, just to slow for our production needs.



Tom

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 277
    • TSO Products LLC
@Josh2 - your question and your comment about $ 600 needed to make successful paraqllel cuts are understandable. we, TSO have not done a good job of explaining the choices available.

In it's second year of production the TSO TPG Parallel Guide users have taught us a number of things:

Nearly all buyers of the TSO Parallel GUide already have, or will buy, at least one GRS-16 Guide Rail Square. Why? - you need to make SQUARE cuts all the time. So the GRS-16 is a foundational tool for the growing number of woodworkers using Track Saws. It is also part of a flexible SYSTEM that you can mix and match to your particular task.
 
If you buy no other accessory for your Festool or Makita track saw, buy a GRS-16 or the -PE version.
You can't go wrong. TSO pioneered the category. It is such a global success that FESTOOL approached us about a cooperatve arrangement. Today FESTOOL sells our patented GRS-16 PE version (made in Germany) globally outside North America while TSO supplies USA and Canada.  You can't choose better than that.

Now for the Parallel Guide question:
Almost half of our customers have bought the TPG-20-30 RIGHT Hand Set to use with a GRS-16. This gives them square AND parallel cuts in one set-up for workpieces of less than full sheet length.

As Tom mentioned in his post above, his shop has proven that full length parallel cuts can be made mit just one GRS-16 and  T-tracks on the RIGHT Hand side. As a practical matter you'll likely be making shorter parallel cuts most of the time.
That capability can be had for $ 149.00.
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/tpg-20-tpg-30-parallel-guide-system-right-hand/

To use a pair ot T-tracks, the $ 49.95 Track ADAPTER can take the place of a second GRS-16.
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/guide-rail-adapter-for-tpg-parallel-guide-system-fits-right-or-left-hand/.

Since you are in the deciding stage, you may be interested in participating as BETA Tester in our TPG continuing development program. If you're interested and to learn more, email me directly

Hans
hans@tsoproducts.com

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 31
Thanks for the detailed response. I will write tomorrow.

What I read now is that the two sided version is important for narrow stock. That seems like an important reason. Do you agree? Certainly the most important reason for my applications and might help differentiate the two kits.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 548
Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

Offline Chuck Wilson

  • Posts: 144
Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

Mike,
I’d be interested to exactly what you have regarding the ‘TSO system’ and if you have any projects that you have completed that you can share. I have been eyeing the TSO stuff for a while now.

Thanks,
Chuck

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6257
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
As a beta tester I have every piece for the TSO PG’s.

All of the sheet goods and some of the solids were processed for the casework in this album. There are other albums in my Flickr account, the PG’s were used for those units also.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156063358@N08/albums/72157714774557602

Tom

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 548
Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

Mike,
I’d be interested to exactly what you have regarding the ‘TSO system’ and if you have any projects that you have completed that you can share. I have been eyeing the TSO stuff for a while now.

Thanks,
Chuck

@Chuck Wilson - thanks for your interest.


Sewing Cabinet (Yeah, I know it's pink)
316668-0

Chairs & Deck
316670-1

Cooler Box
316672-2

Planter Boxes
316674-3

Bookcase
316676-4

Yarn rack
316678-5

Vet center for my grandaughter
316680-6

Current project - bathroom vanity/storage (plus can see most of my TSO products)
316682-7
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 11:48 AM by Mike Goetzke »

Offline knuckles

  • Posts: 14
Any idea when the LH rails will be back in stock?

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 31
Any idea when the LH rails will be back in stock?

I think pretty much everything is out of stock. So I have the same question for all the other configurations.

Offline Chuck Wilson

  • Posts: 144
As a beta tester I have every piece for the TSO PG’s.

All of the sheet goods and some of the solids were processed for the casework in this album. There are other albums in my Flickr account, the PG’s were used for those units also.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156063358@N08/albums/72157714774557602

Tom

Thanks for sharing!!  Really awesome work!!

Chuck

Offline Chuck Wilson

  • Posts: 144
Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

Mike,
I’d be interested to exactly what you have regarding the ‘TSO system’ and if you have any projects that you have completed that you can share. I have been eyeing the TSO stuff for a while now.

Thanks,
Chuck

@Chuck Wilson - thanks for your interest.


Sewing Cabinet (Yeah, I know it's pink)
(Attachment Link)

Chairs & Deck
(Attachment Link)

Cooler Box
(Attachment Link)

Planter Boxes
(Attachment Link)

Bookcase
(Attachment Link)

Yarn rack
(Attachment Link)

Vet center for my grandaughter
(Attachment Link)

Current project - bathroom vanity/storage (plus can see most of my TSO products)
(Attachment Link)

Awesome!!!! Thanks so much for sharing.

I have a Bosch contractor table saw but prefer not to use it.  I did a bunch of work re-trimming out a some windows just using my TS75 and rails. I think it came out pretty well but could have been done more efficiently.

I don't mind spending the money and I have to be portable (in the winter I move into the basement and all the other seasons I am in the garage).

Have you found the TSO products handy for cutting dimensional lumber in addition to sheet goods?

I might like to chat with you more about your impressions but it may be better to do so via DM.

Thanks,
Chuck

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 921
I am looking to by the complete set. there are discounts on if you purchase them all together. Which combination givers you complete right and left hand sets. As a single order. Regards

Offline Hollatime

  • Posts: 19
Much like festool, the whole $Y$TEM approach etc.

Since the guide rail square is something you’re going to buy anyways right, this is what I did.

Using any tslot profile, I used the tape slot t track from lee valley (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/jig-and-fixture-parts/73516-veritas-tape-t-slot-track)

Drill/tap 2 m6 holes
Attach to rail square, if you bought the super counterfeit one also drill/tap holes in it
Insert stop block of choice to tslot
Jazz it up with some adhesive rules or slide in ones if you go the t track plus route

And tbh I don’t even know why I tapped the holes in the tslot profile. A 5mm through hole prob be all the same

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 06:11 AM by Hollatime »

Offline Hollatime

  • Posts: 19
Also lol touting flexibility when you literally cannot use your parallel guides unless you buy a rail square or an adapter that used to cost $80 and is now $50 for each arm none the less.


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Offline TSO_Products

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    • TSO Products LLC
Thanks for the detailed response. I will write tomorrow.

What I read now is that the two sided version is important for narrow stock. That seems like an important reason. Do you agree? Certainly the most important reason for my applications and might help differentiate the two kits.

@Josh2  - you understand correctly: all parallel guides we're aware of require two t-tracks/arms (L & R) attached to the guide rail when cutting Narrow Stock in common cabinet work.

If you could buy a TPG-30 set (LEFT & RIGHT) would you prefer to save some money if it were availablew without the 20 inch T-track pair?

Let us know. We are evaluating offering that configuration with the 20 inch T-Tracks still available as "spare parts" ordered directly from TSO later.

Hans


Offline Hollatime

  • Posts: 19
$Y$TEM

It’s been noted before the initial offering of the 20 and 30inch tracks is a bit odd. Of course the tracks are sooper propriety and can only be used in conjunction with another sooper propriety offering.

If you just offered a 20 or 30 inch initial track, not much left to markup since you’re banking on them being forced to purchase the adapters or rail squares., basically just the flip stop left at that point. Including another track seems like where everyone would start during RD. One short, one long.

But then how can you get them to purchase the third  track?!? The one needed for the 4x8 sheets and all the cuts out of the 30-20inch dead zone.

Maybe do some grade level price analysis on their complete set offering vs one handed kit/tracks etc. common man goes well stuff may as well just buy it all!

Certainly tons to be gained by this and not solely at profiteering, I just find the practice much more reasonable when dealing at scale - an entire jobsite being team yellow or team red, that sort of system. This is like cnc in my garage, system exploiting a niche consumer base of an already niche market in a very brazen way.


Edit: and kudos to the big brain idea of instead of selling the connectors/bring your own incra track like the existing products at market to just selling the track as well and making it borderline necessary to stick within the brand. Why sell the connectors/stop for $150 when you can sell just the flip stop and some t track and bink the consumer buying a $180 rail square or $80 rail adapter if they ever want to actually be able to use them, then buy another track for $100.

At some point it’s a bit too much, can spike it a bit based on quality of product/convenience for sure but again you quickly go from the average $150 market to nearly $700. Like booking a hotel and when it’s time to pay, all the fees taxes and bookings have now skyrocketed the price from the clickbait that’s got you there. 

Almost expect that in order to keep pricing in line and low for us valued consumers you couldn’t include the NASA spec 50inch track instead of the 30. Had no implications that the most common sized sheet good on this side of the planet is 4x8 and few would splurge on a 30 inch track then for sole convenience.


And sure just a dude trying to have a successful business, hard to fault that at all just the whole system/drm non sense from consumer standpoint is triggering.

If I was going to buy someone a rail square, I’d buy them the TSO one for sure, it’s hands down better than the tool nut one in every way. Sucks having to buy something for the magical drm rfid gatekeeper or iZ a SyStEM!! Or not even being able to buy/use a product.

Yea you got jacked and prob lost decent chunk of loonies over the rail square but man what ever happens if H ZHANG LTD starts dumping them for $30. I make a few clicks on Alibaba and have a crate of green ones made up and shipped here to sell. Western businesses have tried to combat this with the whole system/proprietary shackles but attempting to imprison current customers to your products and actively prevent new ones from entering your “ecosystem” not the way about it



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« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 11:29 PM by Hollatime »

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6197
  • Festool Baby.....
@ Hollatime

Yes it is a system by system I mean you can only use the TSO PG with the TSO GRS which is what they were designed for.

I own r/h and l/h 20"/30"/50", I find I use the 30" more than the others. the 30" is great for ripping ply for cabinets 23 1/4" w ad 24" W and 12"/13" w for uppers. When ripping I use the FS3000 guide rails.
 So If I were you Id get the r/h and l/h 30" PG that should give you about 95% of your most common cuts.

The beauty of them is the ease of calibrating them. Once calibrated youll get dead nuts accurate cuts.

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 31
Yes, I think that would be a good offering. I once you are in the system, who knows...  :)

Thanks for the detailed response. I will write tomorrow.

What I read now is that the two sided version is important for narrow stock. That seems like an important reason. Do you agree? Certainly the most important reason for my applications and might help differentiate the two kits.

@Josh2  - you understand correctly: all parallel guides we're aware of require two t-tracks/arms (L & R) attached to the guide rail when cutting Narrow Stock in common cabinet work.

If you could buy a TPG-30 set (LEFT & RIGHT) would you prefer to save some money if it were availablew without the 20 inch T-track pair?

Let us know. We are evaluating offering that configuration with the 20 inch T-Tracks still available as "spare parts" ordered directly from TSO later.

Hans

Offline TSO_Products

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  • Posts: 277
    • TSO Products LLC
Yes, I think that would be a good offering. I once you are in the system, who knows...  :)

@Josh2  - thanks for your feedback - very helpful!
We are actively pursuing this product configuration.

Hans

Offline savsuds

  • Posts: 21
I would admit the desire to purchase the TPG would increase if a 30 inch R/L only option was available, doubly so if paired with (2) TPG guide rail adapters. I mostly break down 60x60 sheets. I rip a straight edge and then rip them into 30x60 halves with parallel guides (I am not 100% satisfied with my current parallel guides).

Not having to attach rail sections together is a bonus over the Woodpecker offering. I believe extra connections lead to inaccurate cuts and wasted time assembling them.

I also love my Parf MFT top for square cross cuts, and thusly don't need a GRS16/PE. I admit they are a quality product when I got to hold and see them used.

I vote for a 30 inch option.
Hobbyist just trying to have fun and not let my OCD ruin it for me.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 548
I would admit the desire to purchase the TPG would increase if a 30 inch R/L only option was available, doubly so if paired with (2) TPG guide rail adapters. I mostly break down 60x60 sheets. I rip a straight edge and then rip them into 30x60 halves with parallel guides (I am not 100% satisfied with my current parallel guides).

Not having to attach rail sections together is a bonus over the Woodpecker offering. I believe extra connections lead to inaccurate cuts and wasted time assembling them.

I also love my Parf MFT top for square cross cuts, and thusly don't need a GRS16/PE. I admit they are a quality product when I got to hold and see them used.

I vote for a 30 inch option.

I probably use the 30" most often but also use the 20" and 50" quite a bit. A few times I wish they could be connected together when I had more than 2 or 3 boards that needed to be cut off at over 50" (like tall cabinet FF stiles).

What I would like is more economical flip-stops so I could calibrate them with each arm and just leave them on.

Mike

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 205
What I would like is more economical flip-stops so I could calibrate them with each arm and just leave them on.

Mike

I pretty much use the 30s only but I do wish the flip stops weren't as expensive as they are. I bought the full TPG-50 package and I really wanted an extra set of stops.  Buying 2 more ($100) was over 25% of the entire TPG-50 package price.  That spoiled the fun a little for me.

Offline knuckles

  • Posts: 14
I have the GRS16-PE and RH 20" & 30" rail set.  It seems there should be a way to extend/join the 20" or 30" with the other rail to accommodate a 50" rail.  I've done it before, but you lose the area where the connectors are for the stop(s).  I think this would be a better solution than having three rails. 

Hopefully there will be a sale soon.. I'm looking at the LH rails and guide rail adapter.

Offline Cochese

  • Posts: 332
    • The 144 Workshop
I think even in the Festool world it is hard to make a sale on an accessory kit that rivals the purchase cost of the tool itself, which is what the dual squares, and dual guides does. I mentioned to them that they should investigate putting together a kit of the rail attachments, 50" guides, and stops for around $200. If they can't meet this, then sub out the 50" for 30". Right now for the TSO system there is really only one entry point, the initial square. Everything builds on that. Make a second entry point at a price that rivals the other offerings out there, you open yourself up to more people putting hands on your product and expanding their attach rate.

For the two squares, and full parallel system you're looking at well over $600. $500 if you eschew one square. Quality products for sure, but that is the elephant in the room.


Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 738
I have the full kit. .two guide rail squares, the adapter accessory, all of the tracks. Some of it bought, some of it provided to me by Hans for evaluation. I just used it exclusively to break down 4x8 sheets to finished cabinet parts. Here's what worked best for me. Two 30" tracks, 1 rail square, 1 adapter for ripping 8' lengths. Only 1 arm is necessary with the guide rail square for 24" crosscuts. The 50" tracks are long and add unnecessary weight. On the two cross cuts that called for a using the 50" arms I was in the middle of setting them up when I bailed and went to a pencil mark and rail square, no guides. If I were batching out long cross cuts I'd probably put more effort into setting it up. For a parallel rip they'd probably be more useful.

I don't understand the comments about the $600-700 price. No one is forcing the entire kit on you. Buy what you need and nothing that you don't. As has been stated the GRS-16 itself is invaluable. So no money lost there. At that point the 30" kit is an easy choice when compared with what else is out there.

 [2cents]

Matt
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 277
    • TSO Products LLC
Guys – all of you – thank you so much for your questions, comments, suggestions and even the criticism!
We learn from all of this.

As many of you know, we are passionate about continuous improvement, especially based on Customer/ User feedback.

Thanks to your  collective feedback we will introduce  a TSO TPG-30 Set version, as mentioned earlier.

While it seems simple from the customer perspective to just omit 20 inch T-tracks and call it good, this change impacts the very first production step after the raw 20+ foot long comes out of heat treating – months before we have a cut, deburred, CNC-machined, anodized and engraved part to kit available for sale.

Our product packaging has 4-color litho labels factory applied in quantity – and inventoried by us  in quantity. Neither the exterior box nor the interior dividers will work for the new version. And on-and-on. We had hoped for a September launch. We’ll see what is possible and use the TSO INSIDER to keep you posted.

Hans

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 921
Any Idea on when inventory will be back up? Tried ordering and you are out of stock. Which is great by the way. Glad you have the demand. Kind of. :) Keep up the good work.

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 31
One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 35
While I don't disagree that the TPG system is quite expensive, rivaling the cost of the track saw itself, I also have to say that there are few things in my workshop that I think have justified their price so well. The speed, accuracy and repeatability that it gives you when cutting any kind of panel surface is just incredible.

Even my father -- a longtime carpenter and avowed skeptic of all my "expensive green toys" -- was floored by how well the TPGs worked when he came by to help me with a project a few months ago and it left him rethinking investing into the system himself.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 09:28 PM by Cypren »

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 205
One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

This is a good video by Eric, I have watched it a number of times.  Not sure if I am understanding you because you still need (or should) to do a crosscut either with 1 or 2 guides in place.  The 4' end of the sheet is still the factory edge and you should square it up to one of your already ripped long edges.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 31
Yes, of course. I need the crosscut. The question is when and that matters for changing blades, changing the orientation of the rail etc etc. So let me try to say it more clearly:

- With two guides (Rip, Rip, crosscut, crosscut): Rip for factory edge, parallel rip using guides, crosscut for factory edge, crosscut(s) for final piece(s) (That is what Eric does in the video)
- With one guide (Rip, crosscut, rip, crosscut): Rip for factory edge, crosscut for factory edge and 90, parallel rip using guides and square, crosscut(s) for final piece

Is it correct to say that one guide requires the second process because I only reference of one side and not both? Two guides make it possible to do all the ripping first because I reference of both sides.

One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

This is a good video by Eric, I have watched it a number of times.  Not sure if I am understanding you because you still need (or should) to do a crosscut either with 1 or 2 guides in place.  The 4' end of the sheet is still the factory edge and you should square it up to one of your already ripped long edges.

Offline m8

  • Posts: 46
While I don't disagree that the TPG system is quite expensive, rivaling the cost of the track saw itself, I also have to say that there are few things in my workshop that I think have justified their price so well. The speed, accuracy and repeatability that it gives you when cutting any kind of panel surface is just incredible.

Even my father -- a longtime carpenter and avowed skeptic of all my "expensive green toys" -- was floored by how well the TPGs worked when he came by to help me with a project a few months ago and it left him rethinking investing into the system himself.

The quote above is why I have not been able to convince myself that TSO PGS is too expensive.  I decided at the end of last month to go ahead and pull the trigger and go all in but I hesitated too long when I received the e-mail notifying me that it was back in stock.

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 277
    • TSO Products LLC
One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

@Josh2 - you're abolutely correct. No matter what else you plan to do with a sheet of material: first make on straight edge - replacing the factory edge  however "good" it looks.
Then reference off that absoutley straight edge - ideally with a GRS-16 or GRS-16 PE on your guide rail to  get a straight and squared edge of the first straightlined edge.

the next cut(s) can be made parallel with the same guide rail and GRS-16 simply by adding (1)TPG T-track and FlipStop.

Hans

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 548
One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

Now why don't I see this video link?

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 548
I went "all-out" on this system when it first came out and still couldn't be happier.

I'm an active hobbyist and do break down sheet good but have also used this system exclusively for dimensional lumber and hardwood crosscuts that one would generally do on a miter saw. I'm surprised others haven't commented on this as often as sheet goods application. Maybe because working out of my garage/shop it takes more time to set up my miter saw on it's mobile base than to take out my track saw and TSO components.

Mike

(Sheet good question - do the pros find they need to rip a reference surface? All the years I've been using sheet goods I have found the long edges to be perfectly straight but many times the crosscut not square.)

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6257
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
@MikeGoetzke, I find on YT videos if you use the copy function on the YT video it will not post here. If I copy and past the address bar it does work here.

We straight line every factory edge. The sheets I purchase come 1/2" oversized.

@Josh2, your process is correct. That is one of the big advantages to the two arm setup. By doing all the rips first, you can square a short edge to either long edge, use a single arm PG set up on a square to process all of the cross cuts.

Tom

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 31
Mike: Here is the link for the video:

Hans/TSO and Tom: Thanks! My question was actually different. Of course, I need a straight edge. The question is about another difference between one hand PGS and both hand TPG. Tom just confirmed my understanding that with one hand PGS, I need two straight edges with 90 degree (one rift one, one cross cut). With both hands, I just need a straight edge rift and can worry about the straight edge crosscut later because I reference of both sides.

So here is my summary of the advantages of both hand TPG based on the answers here. Maybe it's helpful for others:
1. Easier and faster to rip full panels. But it is possible to rip 96" with a single arm.
2. Better support for thin stock. TSO still wants to post a video on that, I think.
3. Different process for breaking down sheet goods: Two arms make it possible to do all the rips first and crosscut later. One arm requires a straight and square rip and crosscut before doing parallel rips. The linked video above is a great illustration of the process with two arms.

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 80
Now why don't I see this video link?

I can't see it either because Josh didn't copy the correct link.  The short version that starts with "youtu.be" won't work, it must the full URL.

Here is the video:

« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 11:13 AM by MikeGE »