Author Topic: Parf or Qwas?  (Read 8686 times)

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Offline Len R

  • Posts: 59
Parf or Qwas?
« on: April 02, 2014, 11:27 PM »
First, greetings to all.  I have just been infused with the green koolaid after lurking in the FOG.
Am expecting delivery of an MFT/3, and looking for dogs to make the most of it.
I've seen descriptions of Parf dogs and Quas dogs.  Is there an advantage to one over the other?
What are the differences?
Do you prefer the larger parf dogs or the Quas rail dogs?

Thanks for any info, and thanks for the amazing amount of information you have shared about the Festool system.

Cheers,

Len

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Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1171
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Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 11:34 PM »
 [welcome]

I have both and use both, and both are great products.  I bought the qwas dogs and the rail dogs before the parf dogs (set of small and 2 sets large) were even available.  I don't think you can go wrong with either.  Probably not a helpful answer.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline mikeneron

  • Posts: 217
Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 01:22 PM »
I have both as well as some stainless steel dogs that Lee Valley sells.  I find I haven't used the Parf Dogs much though as if you use them to rest the rail against, then your cut line will be right in line with the holes of the MFT.  So I use the QWAS rail dogs with the rail and then the stainless steel dogs for the workpiece.  I like the stainless steel dogs because they are low profile so can fit under the overhang of the rail when cutting.  The Parf Dogs are definitely well made and hopefully I will find another use for them, but for basic cutting, I haven't been using them.

I would highly recommend the QWAS rail dogs...they are a must have in my opinion.

Offline rrmccabe

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Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 01:31 PM »
Tool Improvements also has dogs.

One thing to remember is that they might have different shoulders on the top (diameter) so you cant always mix and match.  I have Tool improvements and QWAS and I need to make sure I don't get them mixed up or you are not going to be square.

I see woodpeckers has Delrin now too.

My biggest gripe is how tightly they fit.  This is a tough thing to deal with depending on the age of the table ( I have a 1080) as they hole size changed slightly.
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Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2010
Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 01:35 PM »
First, greetings to all.  I have just been infused with the green koolaid after lurking in the FOG.
Am expecting delivery of an MFT/3, and looking for dogs to make the most of it.
I've seen descriptions of Parf dogs and Quas dogs.  Is there an advantage to one over the other?
What are the differences?
Do you prefer the larger parf dogs or the Quas rail dogs?

Thanks for any info, and thanks for the amazing amount of information you have shared about the Festool system.

Cheers,

Len

I have the Lee Valley set which I bought first and a pair of tall and short Parf dogs. I think, overall, I like the Parf dogs best as they seem to fit in the MFT holes tightest and, I think, therefore, are more accurate. I have used the Parf dogs and the Lee valley short ones to square up my MFT fence/miter to the holes; then the Parf dogs to make some 45 degree cuts by inserting them diagonally to the fence. That worked great. I've used them for other tasks including resting the rail against them and the piece I'm cutting against some inserted perpendicular to the rail.  That seems to work great also as I have found that the MFT fence is hard to keep square to the holes after use. It's not hard to re-square it with the Parf dogs though. I use my MFT table as a stationary tool in my basement workshop and have found that, along with the dogs, it has all but completely replaced my table saw which I think I will sell.
Randy

Offline ART at WORK

  • Posts: 210
  • Buy less Recycle more
Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 01:42 PM »
Tool Improvements also has dogs.

One thing to remember is that they might have different shoulders on the top (diameter) so you cant always mix and match.  I have Tool improvements and QWAS and I need to make sure I don't get them mixed up or you are not going to be square.

I see woodpeckers has Delrin now too.

My biggest gripe is how tightly they fit.  This is a tough thing to deal with depending on the age of the table ( I have a 1080) as they hole size changed slightly.

I just wanted to chip in with the Woodpecker Link.
http://www.woodpeck.com/mftbenchpegs.html

Not a help increasing the choice rather than decreasing it. But as mentioned each has it's place and function.
I am thinking about the Delrin Pegs now. I dont have Quas rail dogs just Parf long and a couple of short ones and some special homemade by my mate which lock down. Very nice design. So it depends on your needs.
I find I often have all six in the table for Left or right hand fixing e.g. when using the domino.

Pip
Kapex 120 + UG Set, ETS 150/3, DF 500, RO 90, MFT/3, CTL 36 AC, RO 150, 0F 900, OF 2200, T15+3,  CDD 12, TS 55, A5 Router table, First Aid kit, LR 32 SYS, FS 800, FS 1400/2, FS 1400/2 LR32 FS2 3000, CTL Midi + Cleaning Set, Clamps, Parallel Guides, Centrotec drills, Zobo Forstner set and countersinks, Routers, Systainers, Sortainers, Sys Cart, Syslite

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2010
Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 01:51 PM »
Maybe getting a set of Parf dogs and using them would tell you what they don't do for you. I have recently taken the more sensible approach to buying tools (sometimes) and buy one I will use, use it for awhile, then move on to getting additional tools and jigs I find I could use. Of course, I'm not always that smart with buying my tools.
Randy

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 205
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 10:20 AM »
I have both an MFT 1080 (purchased April 2007) and an MFT3. Word is, the hole size in the MFT 1080 changed slightly in late 2006/very early 2007. I guess that I got a little lucky.
My Qwas Dogs fit both tables perfectly, with the same snug fit in both tables.
The Parf Dogs look great and the price is a bit better than the Qwas Dogs.
Comment? Thoughts? Experience?
 
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Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6349
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 10:38 AM »
Its all personal preference.

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1378
Re: Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2014, 10:52 AM »
Parf are heavy stainless steel and Qwas are light aluminum.

The tall dogs are different.  The Parf tall dogs have a collar that allows them stand in a hole about ~3.5 inches above the table.  The Qwas tall dogs are meant to slide into the t-track on the bottom of a guide rail and then in the MFT holes.  They work differently in that regard.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 205
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2014, 01:51 PM »
I've had the QWAS Dogs - And QWAS Rail Dogs - And like/use them a lot. Highly recommended.
Then I saw the PARF Dogs - Read the reviews - And watched Peter Parfett's video -
And decided I'd buy a pair of the short (10mm) - And a pair of the tall 70mm - Parf Dogs.
I bought 'em via FestoolProducts.com (ToolNut). Same prices as Veritas - But... No shipping/tax.
My order arrived several days later via USPS Priority mail (not UPS Ground like the my order confirmation showed).
Not a big deal. WHAT WAS A BIG DEAL was -
The small 10mm Parf Dogs measured 19.9mm in diameter - And fit snug/correctly.
But... On the longer 70mm Parf Dogs - The short ends (the end that goes into the MFT/3 table) - Measured 20.1 mm -
And WOULDN'T FIT IN MY MFT/3 TABLE. They didn't fit in two MFT/3's at my local Woodcraft store either.
The GOOD NEWS:
I called ToolNut - And gave 'em the "head's up". Next day Veritas Tools called me - Arranged to have replacements delivered the following day - And have the "oversized" 70mm Parf Dogs picked up - No charges or shipping expense.
When the replacements arrived the diameters were the correct "spot on" 19.9mm - And fit my MFT/3 perfectly.
They also fit my older model MFT 1080 table (purchased 07 APR 2007) snug/correctly.
As I posted earlier - I'd read that the PARF Dogs fit a bit loose in some of the "earlier" MFT 1080's -
But, the MFT 1080 hole size was changed in late 2006/early 2007. I guess I got lucky.

My SPECIAL THANKS to Peter at ToolNut - And Wally at Veritas Tools. Their fast action and easy corrective measures -
Will definitely get my business in the future. Sometimes... The "world" isn't perfect. "#$*& happens".
These guys know how to get/keep customers.

As for the question: "QWAS or PARF??" -
I like 'em both - And use 'em both - A lot - For slightly different applications.
BOTH are great products. Every Festool MFT table owner should have 'em - BOTH.
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: PDC 18/4 Li QuaDrive Cordless Drill Set, C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIG: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline ZappaDeeBOOM

  • Posts: 1
Re: Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2020, 08:19 PM »
Joe, I think you spelled "#$*&" incorrectly. I think it's $#&*.
 [wink]

Offline Rich Kline

  • Posts: 83
Re: Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2020, 10:27 PM »
So can someone help me?  Which ones do I have?  There are no markings.  All are 20 mm and fit my MFT/3 table perfectly.   I got these in a whole shop purchase and Len if you're interested I would sell them if the gang agrees they are the ones you want!

Thanks,
Rich





Offline Christopher Fitch

  • Posts: 97
Re: Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2020, 10:33 PM »
From what I can tell, the two tall ones are Qwas rail dogs - those look just like mine. Not sure about the short ones.

http://qwasdogs.com/RailDogs.html

As for OP, I can't comment on Parf Dogs but I have a set of Qwas dogs and I like them.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 10:36 PM by Christopher Fitch »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf or Qwas?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2020, 03:51 AM »
Yes, I agree that the tall ones look like QWAS rail dogs. I think the others must be copies of the Veritas Parf Dogs from Lee Valley. There have been a lot of copies but all seem to be made to different tolerances.

When Lee Valley were doing the final tweeking of the original Veritas Parf Dogs they checked the diameter of holes on a selection of MFT type benches which were available at that time. The range in hole size was surprising and made the eventual diameter of the dogs a compromise.

After a long period of contemplation and experimentation I decided that a "family" of products. from hole creation to dogs and bench fixtures, was required and these had to be manufactured to the same standard. That is when Axminster, under their UJK label, came into the scene.

I have not heard anything from Steve at QWAS. I hope that he is well and that he is still producing innovative products.

Peter