Author Topic: OF1010 rumor  (Read 5957 times)

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Offline Jason White

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OF1010 rumor
« on: May 29, 2021, 09:41 AM »
Read a Facebook post that said the OF1010 is being discontinued. Any truth to this? Wondering what might be replacing it.
- Jason White

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2021, 09:59 AM »
Read a Facebook post that said the OF1010 is being discontinued. Any truth to this? Wondering what might be replacing it.

You might want to check out this thread:  https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-announced-a-update-version-from-the-of-1010-ebq-(calld-of-1010-rebq)/msg642618/#msg642618

Peter

Offline Jason White

  • Posts: 311
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2021, 10:05 AM »
Thanks, Peter.

I really hope the new version comes with a 1/2” collet. That has been my only hesitation on buying the OF1010.
- Jason White

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 990
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2021, 10:12 AM »
It comes with 19mm spanner, so no it won't.

If you want to use router bits with 1/2" shank... get the OF1400

Personally; it's all 8mm and 12mm.  8)

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7468
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2021, 10:37 AM »
Thanks, Peter.

I really hope the new version comes with a 1/2” collet. That has been my only hesitation on buying the OF1010.

It never will. It is in the small segment, 8 mm max. For a 1/2'' collet you'll need the OF1400.

Offline Jason White

  • Posts: 311
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2021, 11:25 AM »
That’s too bad. I really don’t want the 1400.
- Jason White

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 43
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2021, 12:31 PM »
That’s too bad. I really don’t want the 1400.

The world will never see a 1/2" collet router the same size as the 1010 or anything close. 1/2" cutters need a big, beefy motor to drive them at the necessary speed and torque. There just isn't the physical space in a small machine to accommodate that - not from Festool, not from anyone. Not until some genius designs a 2.2kW/3hp motor the size of a thimble.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 01:02 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2021, 04:35 PM »
The real problem with that is having a machine that is just too small to hold onto with some big profile bit that could potentially mounted to it.
Sure you a can get smaller bits with 1/2" shanks, but the sky is pretty much the limit on the big end too. They could limit the baseplate hole size to keep the bit diameter down, so you couldn't insert some giant panel raising bit, but there are still some serious sized bits out there at lesser diameters.
You really need some mass in the machine to counter the bit's force and the OF1010 is just too small/light for huge cutters.
The OF1010 is a great tool, I love mine, but I don't push it hard enough to feel the need for a bigger shanked bit. 8mm is quite a step up from 1/4" and good enough for a lot of what I do anyway.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline mino

  • Posts: 491
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2021, 03:03 PM »
The real problem ...
... is IMNSHO the (lack of) 8mm or 5/16 bits availability in the US.

Over here the market has converged at
 - 6mm for dedicated trimmers (<1hp)
 - 8mm for general hand-held use (1-1.5hp, suitable for one-hand use)
 - 12mm or 1/2 for heavy handheld and table use (2+hp, assumes 2 hand use almost universally, OF1400 being the exception here)

This is reflected in bit availability:
 - you cannot (easily) get bigger bits for 6 mm, or even general non-trimming bits actually
 - you can get pretty much every conceivable bit up to about 50 mm/2" diameter in 8 mm
 - you cannot (easily) get small bits at 12 mm - manufacturers assume you will just your your 8 mm router for light work ..


From a couple threads over and over, it would seem to me the "universal handy router" role is not really working in US. 1/4" is too weak for a lot of stuff and 1/2" pushes the makers into the bigger 2hp+ territory which one does not really want for fine work.

It is interesting, as I would assume the 5/16 size would have made natural sense. Do note that you do not see 10 mm collets in Europe - they are used in industrial machines but NOT in handheld routers.
To me that would make sense given 8 mm is "just enough router you can safely operate in one hand" and while one goes bigger, 12mm seems par for the course.

The strengths are about:
100%  6 mm
120%  1/4" (6.35)
240%  8 mm
800%  12 mm /340% of 8 mm/
950%  1/2" (12.7) /800% of 1/4"/

The jump from 1/4" > 1/2" is really huge at 8x, heck even 8-12 is a pretty big jump.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 03:07 PM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2021, 04:56 PM »
There are actually a couple of routers that hit that middle ground, here in the US. The Porter Cable 890 (and the older 690) hit that 1 3/4hp middle range as well as the Body-grip Milwaukee that I like so much. All of these come with both 1/4" and 1/2" collets. They are a little big for tiny bits, but not huge and heavy machines, still big/powerful enough for all but panel raising bits.
Metric diameter collets/shanks are not really available in retail situations, like home improvement stores, but not impossible for those who would actually want them.

6mm and 1/4" are so close that it wouldn't be worth the trouble, or cause the confusion. They are available in some profiles that I absolutely would not use. The funny thing is that the cheapest , must junk brands are the ones most likely to have these sizes. I would not buy or use a 3/4" rounder-over  or a 3/4" x 1/2" rabbet bit with a 1/4" shank, but they are out there.
8mm are pretty much the same, available mostly Amazon and specialty stores, not regular retail.
3/8" bits are really only available as solid carbide spiral or compression profiles, usually CNC applications. Most hand held routers need an adapter bushing to use them. I don't recall ever seeing a steel shank/brazed carbide 3/8" shank bit?
12mm are not here at all. I assume the same as the 6mm-1/4" confusion factor.
1/2" shanks are available for nearly any bit profile, even the smallest are out there, but the cost keeps a lot of people from buying them.
Until I got into Festool routers, I tried to buy almost every bit with 1/2" shank. I only bought 1/4" shanks for the laminate trimmer profiles.
When I got my first MFK700, I started looking into 8mm shanks. I discovered Lee Valley first and they had what I needed for it. I didn't really bother with any more because the next one I got was a used OF1400 and it was capable of running 1/2".
It was really the OF1010 that had me looking further for 8mm. I also learned about Amazon UK, they have a lot more. I got a Bosch set from there and have added a few more as needed since.

Most of my routers are dedicated to one specific bit, even one of the MFK700s. The Triton in the table and the OF1400 and OF1010 are the ones that get different bits each time the get used.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8568
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2021, 05:33 PM »

3/8" bits are really only available as solid carbide spiral or compression profiles, usually CNC applications. Most hand held routers need an adapter bushing to use them. I don't recall ever seeing a steel shank/brazed carbide 3/8" shank bit?


Milwaukee has always offered 3/8" collets as an option for their routers, that goes back at least 25+ years. It was always looked upon as an oddball item but I've noticed that recently Whiteside, Vortex & Amana are now offering a larger selection of 3/8" router bits. I don't know the reasoning behind it, it could be because of the proliferation of small CNC table top routers?

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 990
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2021, 06:31 PM »
Isn't 1/2" and 1/4" just a US thing? It's all 6, 8 or 12mm here. Dunno who actually uses the 6mm without adapter to 8mm, but ok.

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 43
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2021, 07:12 PM »
Even though the UK has been fully metric for decades, we still buy router bits which have 1/4” or 1/2” shanks - the manufacturers refer to them as 6.35mm or 12.7mm. We also buy 12.7mm drill bits, we still measure fuel economy in miles per gallon, we buy pints of beer,  and weigh ourselves using stones and pounds....
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 07:18 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline mino

  • Posts: 491
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2021, 07:50 PM »
...
6mm and 1/4" are so close that it wouldn't be worth the trouble, or cause the confusion.
..
12mm are not here at all. I assume the same as the 6mm-1/4" confusion factor.
...
Yeah, I never wondered about 1/4 v.s 6mm, they have basically the same use case.
Similar with 12 mm and 1/2"

What I find strange is it seems in US is no "medium" collet like in Europe the 8 mm one is.

I will try go on a tangent here:
----------------------------------
I guess this can come from when Europe switched to metric, in past the English were a major tool exporter so 1/4 and 1/2 were common between the world wars. Same as in US. But the Germans (and French) hated the English with a passion, so went all-metric wherever feasible very early on. Think 19th century early on.

With the 6,8,10 and 12 mm newly available "standard" sizes, this probably created the opportunity to "rethink" the optimal collet size right about time the handheld routers became a mass product. Eventually 6 mm was a direct "conversion" from 1/4", so that was clear. 12mm was again a direct "conversion" from 1/2" use cases. But 6 mm was even weaker to 1/4" and for hand-held routers of the era, something stronger was sought => HEY! we got 8 mm that is a good fit for our weak 1 hp motors. Lets go for it! And over time this was proven "strong  enough" in that it displaced some use cases away from the 12 mm/1/2" bits category which were dedicated to bigger tools.

Just a though.
Either way I think there is a place for a "medium" collect size between 1/4" and 1/2" and that 8 mm is ideal as it is just 0,8% bigger than 5/16", making it an ideal "cross-system" size where one collet can probably accept both sizes even. Just that the momentum of the market makes it difficult for any new "standard" to get traction.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 07:53 PM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 990
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2021, 09:19 PM »
But the Germans (and French) hated the English with a passion, so went all-metric wherever feasible very early on.

Haha, this is the most ridiculous metric-bashing I've read so far  [laughing]
They went metric because the French conquered them and forced it on them. Then after the French were defeated they returned to their silly units out of vengeance untill they realized it was actually just better to keep it.

The hate factor is probably reverse and might explain why the Brits never caught on. Well, besides not being conquered by Napoleon of course.

Either way; if you want to dump something French; ditch their bicycle tire valve (Presta). It's complete baloney compared to the (American) Schrader valve.  [tongue]

Even though the UK has been fully metric for decades, we still buy router bits which have 1/4” or 1/2” shanks - the manufacturers refer to them as 6.35mm or 12.7mm. We also buy 12.7mm drill bits, we still measure fuel economy in miles per gallon, we buy pints of beer,  and weigh ourselves using stones and pounds....

Maybe the latter is the reason why the UK has the highest obesity % of all of Europe (except Malta); they just don't understand their own weight.  [big grin]
Hank Johnson might be afraid the UK will tip over  [cool]
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 09:33 PM by Coen »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2021, 09:27 PM »
That’s too bad. I really don’t want the 1400.

Just out of curiosity ......................  why not?

Seth

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 990
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2021, 09:36 PM »
Guess 1; the guide bushing movement issue...
Guess 2; the overall weight and size compared to the OF-1400
Guess 3; the plastic dust extraction connection

Can't really think of anything else. I have both. I like them both.

Most recent thing that the OF 1010 routed was XPS insulation  [big grin]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8568
Re: Newest OF 1010...also known as a missed opportunity
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2021, 01:55 AM »
Festool doesn't change existing tools around much from year to year. Some consider that a bad thing, however, I consider that a good thing providing you have the basic package correct in the first place, which I think Festool generally does a good job with.

DF 500 upgrade...good thing...although offering the original base as an option would have been nice.

Kapex upgrade...good thing...eliminating smoking is always a good thing.

TSC 55 K upgrade...good thing...an increase in blade life and battery life is always welcomed.

OF 1010 upgrade...bad thing...the change from a metal elliptical DC port to a round plastic DC port isn't exactly ground shaking news and the swapping of positions of prominent features is also not ground shaking, but the most worrisome of all is the missed opportunity to incorporate LED lighting. What were they thinking...an opportunity to transform the 1010 into the best full-featured small plunge router in the market and they completely missed the opportunity. I don't get it...I really don't. I've not been kind in the past regarding my remarks to the product management team and unfortunately I'll continue to be unkind to those folks. It's an unkindness that's much deserved and one they've actually embraced, weird as that is.

Maybe I'm just clueless but I always thought product improvements/upgrades were meant to increase sales and thus drive market share. Please explain to me how a new round plastic dust port will provide that function. What a goofy deal, Festool has always been wrestling with this conundrum. The imperial versus metric debate is just another disastrous talking point.

I'm so disappointed with the supposed 1010 upgrade...I'll not be upgrading as there's nothing to upgrade to. Festool, y'all let me know when you actually decide to get serious about upgrading the 1010 and then I'll gladly vote with my $$$.

PS. I did upgrade to the new TSC 55 K because that actually is an upgrade. If it's an upgrade I spend the $$$, if it's not an upgrade, I'll just complain and ask the question...WHY?  [big grin]
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 02:16 AM by Cheese »

Offline mino

  • Posts: 491
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2021, 06:30 AM »
Haha, this is the most ridiculous metric-bashing I've read so far  [laughing]
...
LOL, it was actually meant as explanation .. there was a non-commercial incentive to not use English units which were the de-facto "world standard" thanks to their industrial prowess in 19th century. At that time, "inch" was actually different everywhere in the world as it was a not a global standard.

In this environment, given the Germans wanted/needed to export, their natural choice was not to use the *English* imperial inch which had political connotations for their customers (the French) but to use something else (German inch being obsoleted by SI agreement by then) which was the then-new SI system.

Ref, "Germans were conquered by the French so adopted SI stuff", you sure know it was actually the other way round. Couple years before the 1875 SI conference the French got a thorough beating from the Prussians in the 1871 war ... that war was quite important BTW, as it was the catalyst for the unification of Germany into the German Empire.

My main point was that there was needed an -external- , non-commercial, factor to allow the (I believe better) SI system to win and, in turn, to create the conditions for the intermediate collet size to become prevalent.  And even that took the better part of a century to take place.
Were it left for the market, most likely the most-prevalent "English inch", later "metric/standard inch" would have likely stayed put and there would be no equivalent of the 8 mm collets on the market as it is not in the US.

The sheer momentum of the consumer and small-business markets mean that a game-changing characteristic or a strong external incentive is required to challenge a prevalent standard of the time. Being just "better" is not enough. What is "better" anyway ...

As the 6+8+12 mm "system" is not *that* better to a 1/4"+1/2" system to make that happen, I do not see that happening any time soon if ever. 8 mm is likely to get better availability, given the prevalence of online shipping these days which have less inventory restrictions, but that is about it.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 06:41 AM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline mino

  • Posts: 491
Re: Newest OF 1010...also known as a missed opportunity
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2021, 06:58 AM »
...
What were they thinking...an opportunity to transform the 1010 into the best full-featured small plunge router in the market and they completely missed the opportunity. I don't get it...I really don't.
...
The cynic in me would answer:
Well, they needed to keep something out what they can upgrade in 2030, right ?

The pragmatic answers:
They may not have found a (good enough in their view) way how to install a light in a such vibration-prone location without a redesign of the motor/housing assembly.

The "new" OF 1010 R is more of a facelift than a new tool gen.
The dust port was a must to complete the migration to bayonet ,some fiddling with the controls based on ergonomics studies/feedback and that is about it. Similar like with the TS55 F.

A truly "new" OF 1000 watt-range tool would be (order of probability in my view):
 - a bit better torque and about 1100 W peak power
 - ratcheting collet system
 - LED light
 - new hybrid screwed/quick-fit template interface
 - kitchen sink ?

All of these would require a proper tool redesign to be done right.

Me happy, as will avoid my sole expected non-bayonet Festool. But that is about the end of the enthusiasm.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2021, 10:59 AM »
I guess it's the "overboard" thinking in me, but I really don't see the problem of owning both OF1400 and OF1010 to get the features discussed? I never really expect any tool to be everything to me, even if it is capable of it. Case in point, my recent post about the MFK700. The more versatile or adjustable something is, the more tinkering/adjusting you have to do to work with it. Case in point #2, ShopSmith machines. They can do pretty much everything, but they are a huge pain at the same time. If you are in a tiny shop and don't care at all about time? maybe, But that is not me at all.
Do you really need the more powerful/bigger unit to have the more precise bushing connection?
I have used my OF1400 to cut the deeper pockets of some fairly big SOSS hinges and it has not been an issue at all. The dust collection is so much better than they way I did it before, which was the Dewalt with the extraction through one of the plunge mechanism pillars.
If I wanted to do some smaller inlay type work, I probably would use the OF1010, because it is more solid, adjustable and lighter. I don't really like messing with the screws on the base plate, so I avoid it if I can. The snap-style of the OF1400 is so much simpler that you will actually use it, especially with the chip collection cup. I rarely use it with the OF1010, just for that reason. Why oh why do they use flat-blade screws for the bushings? Although I am not a fan of Torx screws either, they are better than flat.
I like the idea of the new round dust port. The oval ones on the OF1010 and RAS115 are more difficult than they need to be.
The light thing doesn't really concern me. I mostly use mine with the dust port that surrounds the bit. With that in place, you have absolutely no way of viewing the bit at all, so a light would do nothing.
I do very little where I care to see the bit at all.
I like the 8mm option, I just wish it had better support in the US. It's possible, but certainly not simple or ordinary. IMHO, metric is just better anyway. I would rather that Festool not bother to change things. It just adds to the confusion of mixing the measurements. The DF500 is still 100% metric. I really don't see them producing cutters/tennons to go along with converting all of the setting scales. So why switch it on the other machines?

Isn't 1/2" and 1/4" just a US thing? It's all 6, 8 or 12mm here. Dunno who actually uses the 6mm without adapter to 8mm, but ok.
I didn't realize that was the way over there? In the US an OF1010 comes with 1/4" and 8mm collets, so I assumed you got 6mm and 8mm with yours?
The OF1400 comes with 3 collets here 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2", so I would have thought that you got 6mm, 8mm, and 12mm?
Adapters are available here, but they are definitely not the standard. I have a couple that adapt 3/8" to 1/2" and 1/8" to 1/4", but they are more of the emergency/un-expected type uses.

Milwaukee has always offered 3/8" collets as an option for their routers, that goes back at least 25+ years. It was always looked upon as an oddball item but I've noticed that recently Whiteside, Vortex & Amana are now offering a larger selection of 3/8" router bits. I don't know the reasoning behind it, it could be because of the proliferation of small CNC table top routers?
They may have been around, but there wasn't any demand or supply for them.
I wasn't aware of those brands offering more. I'll have to look into that, since I have used Whiteside and Amana for years. The CNC thing may be driving it, but don't limit it to the table-top units. The Big 5' x12' production machines we use do a lot of their cutting with 3/8" compression bit. These are solid carbide though, not steel shank. The smaller cuts, like back dados or shelf pin holes are 1/4" and the big ones, like spoil board planers are 1/2".


Even though the UK has been fully metric for decades, we still buy router bits which have 1/4” or 1/2” shanks - the manufacturers refer to them as 6.35mm or 12.7mm. We also buy 12.7mm drill bits, we still measure fuel economy in miles per gallon, we buy pints of beer,  and weigh ourselves using stones and pounds....

I have been confused by this for years. It always seemed like this would happen in the US, if we ever made the switch. This is what makes conversion so hard. Comparing one's understanding rather than just thinking directly in the new measurements makes it more "thinking" than just knowing.
We have an odd similarity here though. For some reason, un-known to me, architects do their drawings in a combination of feet and inches, yet all of our shop drawings are converted to be in inches only. To them 14" would be 1' 2", which seems silly to me? We all know that you would say 1400mm, or 1.4m not 1m 400mm, the mix seems odd.
Don't you buy fuel by the liter though? I did know the MPG thing, but mostly from Top Gear on TV.
Also, isn't what you guys call a pint different than us too? Here a pint is 16 fluid ounces and I have heard that your pint is more like 20 ounces the way we measure it?
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1433
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2021, 11:05 AM »
I agree the lack of light is just shocking. For those of us without a OF1010, changes like the dust port are indifferent, maybe positive, as nothing is changing, but have a a round port is easier than oval.

I think the router was more modified than what they did to the saws, but still, a mild update.  I suspect Festool is trying to bridge to a much bigger re-design.  They probably decided they needed some updates, but major re-do may be a bit off from now. If you assume in a few years, almost all tools will be battery powered, then you want/need to plan for that. If you are not ready as a company for that, then you have to keep your current product going till you are ready.

A few years from now a real replacement for the OF1010 might be battery only, it will be a major change. Expect the same for the TS55 and HK, they may just go away.   

Festool may not have tried hard because when it comes to the routers, if a person is serious on dust collection, what other options do they have?   If you can only have  a light, or good dust collection, which are you going to pick.

On metric history, at least in the US you have weak efforts by government who caved soon as groups complained that they would have to shift, worse some area were converted, like government funded construction, so it was done, but groups complained.  The government just had to have some spine and make it clear it is how it is. On the consumer side, a lot of folks would shift if simply things were only presented in metric, they would shift over. When companies do as festool did, that is what causes the issues to continue.  They clearly had been doing a great job of converting folks to metric.  If people have an out, they won't change. But more frustrating if the metric paths are not available to those who want them, it's even more frustrating.  In the US, the final push to metric would be simple as so much all ready is metric even if people don't realize it.

For router bits, bit companies just need to offer them. My experience is their online catalogs are just horribly frustrating, as they don't want to give folks a simple option to select 8mm or 12mm shank and just see what they have. Router bit places have absolutely terrible layouts for finding stuff. My preference is to only ever buy metric bits, even if I have to get different collets for routers.  Inch based stuff won't be around forever, plus the more that buy metric stuff, the sooner metric shift happens. If they make the stuff for the rest of the world, just sell it in the whole world.

Instead of shipping with inch collets, festool could ship with handy guides to retailers who have a catalog of metric bits.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1433
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2021, 11:23 AM »

We have an odd similarity here though. For some reason, un-known to me, architects do their drawings in a combination of feet and inches, yet all of our shop drawings are converted to be in inches only. To them 14" would be 1' 2", which seems silly to me? We all know that you would say 1400mm, or 1.4m not 1m 400mm, the mix seems odd.


Right, architects need to learn how to make drawings.   As  16' 7-1/8"  is no way to dimension something.  The computer age should have forced them to do everything inch, maybe decimal in.  199.125" would be so much easier.   The good news is supplies for stuff like bath fixtures, and windows also give metric dimensions.  I use those so I don't loose my mind.  Engineering world went to decimal inch only long ago.  I think architects just don't know how stuff is made.  You would think they would be around job sites enough to know you don't work in feet.  You cut the stud to 91.5 or 91-1/2  not 8' 7-1/2".   

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 43
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2021, 01:41 PM »
Quote from: Crazyraceguy

I have been confused by this for years. It always seemed like this would happen in the US, if we ever made the switch. This is what makes conversion so hard. Comparing one's understanding rather than just thinking directly in the new measurements makes it more "thinking" than just knowing.
We have an odd similarity here though. For some reason, un-known to me, architects do their drawings in a combination of feet and inches, yet all of our shop drawings are converted to be in inches only. To them 14" would be 1' 2", which seems silly to me? We all know that you would say 1400mm, or 1.4m not 1m 400mm, the mix seems odd.
Don't you buy fuel by the liter though? I did know the MPG thing, but mostly from Top Gear on TV.
Also, isn't what you guys call a pint different than us too? Here a pint is 16 fluid ounces and I have heard that your pint is more like 20 ounces the way we measure it?

You're right. I'm pretty sure that the main reason why so many US woodworkers use Imperial is quite simply the fact that they've always known it, they understand it, and that's what they learned how to use right from the start - these units are what they automatically think in. I personally think metric is way simpler and potentially more accurate (unless you're measuring in 64ths), but hey - that's what I know and that's what I'm used to, and I'm certainly not going to get all evangelical about it. Forcing any kind of change on someone is a little like suddenly telling a US or UK citizen that they have to forget their mother tongue and start speaking Russian.

We say '1400mm' because that's not the same as 1399mm or 1401mm, and for exactly the same reason as you guys say '50 inches' instead of 'one yard, one foot and two inches' - just like you said. But for rough estimating, the bigger units still have their place - you'll look at a piece of wood, and think to yourself 'That's about a yard long'. I look at the same piece and think 'That's about a metre long'. We're exactly the same - just different  [blink]

Our gas stations have dials which display and pump fuel in litres, but if you ask 95% of UK drivers how many kilometres per litre their car does, they won't have a clue. 35 miles per gallon is still what everyone here understands and relates to. It's just one of the metric aspects which has never caught on. But then - ask the same driver how big his fuel tank is and he'll say '75 litres'. It's slightly mad - but folks understand it and relate to it.

Same goes for body weight. Hardly anyone here knows how many kilograms they weigh (or pounds, for that matter). Ask a 170-pound/77-kilogram guy in the street how much he weighs, and your answer will be '12 stone 2 pounds' most of the time - with the possible exception of the younger generation who have been taught in school to weigh themselves in kilograms.

And yes - the UK Imperial pint is 20 fluid ounces, the US liquid pint is 16. That's why we have more fun than you guys  [big grin]

Finally - here's a product list of straight-flute cutters from Trend - the UK's main manufacturer of cutters. Take a look down the list, and you'll find shanks of 1/2", 1/4", 3/8", 8mm and 12mm......................

https://www.trend-uk.com/products/router-cutter-ranges/craftpro-router-cutters/straight-flute-router-cutters
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 02:17 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2021, 04:06 PM »

Right, architects need to learn how to make drawings.   As  16' 7-1/8"  is no way to dimension something.  The computer age should have forced them to do everything inch, maybe decimal in.  199.125" would be so much easier.   The good news is supplies for stuff like bath fixtures, and windows also give metric dimensions.  I use those so I don't loose my mind.  Engineering world went to decimal inch only long ago.  I think architects just don't know how stuff is made.  You would think they would be around job sites enough to know you don't work in feet.  You cut the stud to 91.5 or 91-1/2  not 8' 7-1/2".

Some of that foolishness is still out there in the big box retailers though. I would love to know how many 3-0 doors get returned to the store because the customer thought they were getting 30", not 3' and 0" which turns out to be 36"?

Yes, you are right. In rough measurements (in conversation) we would say that something was 12 and a half feet, because the average person is far more familiar. Sure they could figure it out, if you said it in inches only, if they had too, but it's not necessary.

In the shop, when making cut lists for the sawyer (if I'm not going to cut it myself) we have decided on a "code" of 97" for just cutting full length strips from sheet goods. If you actually write 96", he will cross cut it to that.

The MPG thing is just funny though. You buy it by the liter, your odometer shows kilometers, the math is simple and it's just a relative comparison number anyway? KPL? So every vehicle would compare the same. Seems like a lot of converting for nothing.

There was talk about switching to metric back when I was in elementary school (early 70s) but it never took hold. If the government just did it, people would gripe for a while, convert in their heads for a while and get over it. Especially once they realized that base 10 is easier. Then after a generation of kids not learning one and having to convert, it would get better. Eventually it would be fine, fractions would be less of a thing.
Far more things are already done in metric standards than people realize, but the thinking is just not there. I would say that the most common usage (awareness) is with soda bottles. Everyone knows what a 2 liter bottle is, but pay little attention to the fact that most things that used to come in quarts are now 750ml. Even less of those would equate that to 3/4 of a liter.
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Online squall_line

  • Posts: 420
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2021, 04:52 PM »
The MPG thing is just funny though. You buy it by the liter, your odometer shows kilometers, the math is simple and it's just a relative comparison number anyway? KPL? So every vehicle would compare the same. Seems like a lot of converting for nothing.

Even better, I usually see metric fuel efficiency reported as consumption, a la Liters per 100 km.  The lower the number the better.  [blink]

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 43
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2021, 05:02 PM »
Quote from: Crazyraceguy

The MPG thing is just funny though. You buy it by the liter, your odometer shows kilometers, the math is simple and it's just a relative comparison number anyway? KPL? So every vehicle would compare the same. Seems like a lot of converting for nothing.

Far more things are already done in metric standards than people realize, but the thinking is just not there. I would say that the most common usage (awareness) is with soda bottles. Everyone knows what a 2 liter bottle is, but pay little attention to the fact that most things that used to come in quarts are now 750ml. Even less of those would equate that to 3/4 of a liter.

On the KPL/MPG thing - not at all, we don't have to convert anything. Since most all of our cars/vans/trucks now have digital/electronic odometers, you can go into the settings/options screen and choose between imperial or metric. Mine is set at MPG, I'm guessing that a vast proportion of my countrymen have the same thing dialled (dialed) in on their settings. Our analogue (analog) dials still read MPH, with KM/H printed on there in smaller red numbers on the same dial. Every road's speed limit sign across the whole of the UK is displayed in MPH, and the UK Government's published speed limits are also in MPH. The metric odometer/speed displays are 100% normal once you cross the English Channel into Europe - a continent which the UK stupidly declined to be a continuing part of.

Drinks bottles = 100%, especially the 2-litre Diet Coke bottle. The most obvious example is that of your country's stellar wines from the Napa Valley. The contents of every bottle?

750ml. Just like you said.

Incidentally - what happened to the OP and his OF1010 rumour (rumor) ?????
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 05:21 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1433
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2021, 06:00 PM »
for the UK they are just slapping US instrument clusters in there, the dual units are the same as what we have. Of course they install them on the wrong side in the UK.  Cars for decades have been metric ready when it comes to the gauges. Now with digital dashes, it's just a press of a button.  The odometer might be the biggest issue all around, but that's very minor.

If the US grew up and went all in tomorrow, the majority of the population wouldn't have an issue at all. If your under 50ish, you were taught metric in school, and everyone is to this day.  It's just some old people who would complain, but they are now the minority. The bulk of folks, would just adjust and move on.

The conversion is still happening, all be it slow. Even in building trades, global realities catch up and things slowly get changed over.  Lots of people certainly know the liquid stuff.  A few years ago the beverage industry was allowed to remove dual dimensioning and just list SI values only, no more oz/etc. from cans and such.   The reality is supporting inch stuff cost business money. When businesses talk to political on that stuff, things can happen.  The more you have people running companies that grew up metric/taught metric, the more those who hold out claiming metric is expensive go away/die. The old excuses just don't hold over time, like the road sign myth on cost. Which forgets signs are regularly replaced, and we had put up metric signs and then took them back down.  Or the "machinery" myth about them being in inches, when any real machinery bought in the last few decades used by any large scale manufacture is metric or dual and is a matter of pressing a button.

So yes, the new OF1010 should have got a light.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2021, 06:46 PM »
At almost 60, I wouldn't complain at all about the switch, but that might be because of my job, and maybe some Festool exposure. I would have to replace some scales on tools and a few measuring tapes, but that's about it. One of the guys I work with used to work in a shop that was all metric and that was many years ago.

Soda cans are still 16 oz and if they switched to some even-simple-comparable number in ml, it might cause issues with dispensing machines?

But even in the countries that are all metric, don't they have sheet goods in 1220 x2440? That is kind of the same as the US going to 750ml bottles in reverse, because that is 4' x 8'. Even the Baltic or Russian Birch sizes are 5' x 5'? even though that is purely a European product and size.
Does anyone know how/why they settled on that size?
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ETS 125 (2)
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Offline mino

  • Posts: 491
Re: OF1010 rumor
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2021, 07:50 PM »
But even in the countries that are all metric, don't they have sheet goods in 1220 x2440? That is kind of the same as the US going to 750ml bottles in reverse, because that is 4' x 8'. Even the Baltic or Russian Birch sizes are 5' x 5'? even though that is purely a European product and size.
Does anyone know how/why they settled on that size?
Not sure how the sizes came but here we go with CZ standards /DE being the same/:

These are the advertised sizes, usually the stuff is a few millimeters bigger to account for edge damage.

Baltic birch: 1525 x 1525 (I am always a HUH when see that size, probably from the birch being naturally smaller trees, so getting 2500 mm long pieces would be an issue)
"Normal" sheets: 2500 x 1250
"Chipboard format": 2800 x 2070 (this is popular flats here are usually 2600-2800 mm for a couple decades, so 2800 allows floor-ceiling in 90%+ housing scenarios)
"Big sheet" stuff: 3000 x 1500 (not generally available, but common in the trades)

Specialty stuff can come in all kinds of sizes, but the above are the common standards.

From other turf, metal bars and pipes etc. are usually 6000 which is very non-inch size. Everything else is either 3m, 4m, 5m from the wood stuff and 1m or 2m from the metal stuff. So I guess similar to US - makers align to "round" values.
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