Author Topic: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide  (Read 2998 times)

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Offline Montag

  • Posts: 20
Hi, so I've searched and many people said between the Seneca, Woodpecker, and Precision Dogs parallel systems, they all get the job done. But I have seen the Precision Dogs have been updated to include side screws so there is less wiggle room for the incra tracks. Also, looks like the Seneca guide complete system is on sale for $225, down from the original $289. So with those two little caveats, what do some of you think is the better option? Has anyone used the updated Precision Dogs? Either way I think I would be updating the incra track for a longer one but for $165 you can get the Precision Dogs with a 24" track. I've completely ruled out Woodpecker based on the price tag and positive comments on the other two. Thanks for the suggestions/comments
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 03:01 PM by Montag »

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Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 482
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2020, 06:34 PM »
I have a set of the earlier version of the Precision Dogs.   The 2020 update looks like an improvement.   The ones I have work fine.

More recently I purchased the TSO Parallel Guide System that works with their GRS-16 (that I already had).

I like this setup even better, suggest you take a look at it. 

Bob

Offline Montag

  • Posts: 20
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2020, 09:41 PM »
Hey Bob thanks. Do you think it’s worth the extra cost for the TSO? Considering you have experience with both

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 482
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2020, 10:52 PM »
Hey Bob thanks. Do you think it’s worth the extra cost for the TSO? Considering you have experience with both

@ Montag   

I already had the GRS-16, so the TSO Parallel Guide system is a nice complement to that.  I might not have gotten them if I hadn't had that.   That said, I am very happy with the GRS-16.

They both work well, the TSO has fewer parts to setup and adjust and I found moving the rail around with the Precision Dogs guides a little more awkward.   The precision dog guides are easy to change from imperial to metric by changing the Incra scales. 

All in all, I guess I like the TSO a little  better, but I can imagine some scenarios making long cuts on full sheets of plywood, where I might pull out the precision dogs version.  I only have the smaller TSO set.   

Hope that helps.

Bob



Offline jstout

  • Posts: 3
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 01:16 AM »
I have an older version of the Precision Dogs. Personally I had some issues setting them up. I only used them a couple of times before I switched to the GRS-60. Once I switched I never looked back.

If you do still want to try out the Precision Dogs and don't mind an older variant (bought in 2017), mine are sitting in the garage with I believe 36" incra tracks that I'd make you a good deal on.

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2020, 09:18 AM »
@Montag - like you, I looked around at the available parallel guides some uyears ago and was less than satisfied. I knew it was possibel to create a better and more user friendly parallel guide.  As Bob Hinden said, the TSO parallel guuide works to advantage with our GRS-16 Guide Rail Square.

We offer Adapters which can take place of one or both GRS-16 with lower overall cost.
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/guide-rail-adapter-for-tpg-parallel-guide-system-fits-right-or-left-hand/

A big (Pat. pend.) advantage of the TSO parallel guide system is  it's ability to use just ONE T-track in combination with one GRS-16 to make cuts which are square AND parallel in ONE operation. This assembly snaps on without tools and detaches just as easily.

The ability to combine one $ 149.95 TPG-20 & 30 Right Hand T-track set with a GRS-16 let's the user take full advantage of our Systems approach to designing better tools.
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/tpg-20-tpg-30-parallel-guide-system-right-hand/

Oh, - and our laser engraved scales read both metric and Imperial against a parallax free Curser on a FlipStop like no other  [smile]

Hans

Offline Montag

  • Posts: 20
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2020, 09:44 AM »
@TSO Products thanks Hans! Quick question, on the website it says you need at least one of the squares but you said you could use two adapters to get both left and right kits? I ask as I unfortunately have an insta track XL already..

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2020, 10:08 AM »
I have the Seneca guides. I bought them before TSO came out with their system. I did not like the Incra scales so I routed out the slot to .5" so I could use a standard adhesive backed rule. I made sure when I applied the rule that it would be a little short. I installed a T nut in the back track that I use to index the scale so it cuts accurately.

I also found the square nuts to be hard to start on the track so I replaced them with the t-nuts shown in the picture.

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2020, 07:12 PM »
@TSO Products thanks Hans! Quick question, on the website it says you need at least one of the squares but you said you could use two adapters to get both left and right kits? I ask as I unfortunately have an insta track XL already..
yes, - @Montag - you can buy wo Adapters and a set of TPG-20&30 Left & Right T-tracks and yyou'll be in business.

I have two ideas for you.

Drop me an email with your contact information and your FOG handle to:
info@tsoproducts

Hans

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2020, 07:38 PM »
I have the Seneca guides. I bought them before TSO came out with their system. I did not like the Incra scales so I routed out the slot to .5" so I could use a standard adhesive backed rule. I made sure when I applied the rule that it would be a little short. I installed a T nut in the back track that I use to index the scale so it cuts accurately.

I also found the square nuts to be hard to start on the track so I replaced them with the t-nuts shown in the picture.

@Oldwood - I salute you for developing creative work-arounds for two of the shortcomings which left me unsatisfied with my Seneca purchase some years ago. My work-around consists of developing a new no-compromise product without limitations imposed by a legacy product design. Of course, I had the benefit of hindsight looking at existing designs. [wink]

We solved the scales- and calibration problems  with several differentiating features:
1. our scales are one-piece engraved in a calibrated position on each  t-track
2. TSO tracks register precisely to the guide rail Adapter in the exact same spot everytime and cannot move
3. TSO's t-nuts are CNC machined with a double sided taper for easy insertion every time - no hardware store stamped t-nuts
4.TSO's calibration is repeatable between  TSO t-tracks

Hans

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2020, 09:02 PM »
I have the Seneca guides. I bought them before TSO came out with their system. I did not like the Incra scales so I routed out the slot to .5" so I could use a standard adhesive backed rule. I made sure when I applied the rule that it would be a little short. I installed a T nut in the back track that I use to index the scale so it cuts accurately.

I also found the square nuts to be hard to start on the track so I replaced them with the t-nuts shown in the picture.

@Oldwood - I salute you for developing creative work-arounds for two of the shortcomings which left me unsatisfied with my Seneca purchase some years ago. My work-around consists of developing a new no-compromise product without limitations imposed by a legacy product design. Of course, I had the benefit of hindsight looking at existing designs. [wink]

We solved the scales- and calibration problems  with several differentiating features:
1. our scales are one-piece engraved in a calibrated position on each  t-track
2. TSO tracks register precisely to the guide rail Adapter in the exact same spot everytime and cannot move
3. TSO's t-nuts are CNC machined with a double sided taper for easy insertion every time - no hardware store stamped t-nuts
4.TSO's calibration is repeatable between  TSO t-tracks

Hans

Thanks Hans, I can get repeatable results with them now which is as you know a necessity with this type of guide.

I have looked at your guides and they are very well thought out and beautifully made. If I was more ambitious and doing more work I might be able to justify a set. Since I retired it is hard selling the CFO on more tool purchases ;)

Gerry
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline odessaboots

  • Posts: 22
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2020, 04:34 PM »
I have the Seneca guides. I bought them before TSO came out with their system. I did not like the Incra scales so I routed out the slot to .5" so I could use a standard adhesive backed rule. I made sure when I applied the rule that it would be a little short. I installed a T nut in the back track that I use to index the scale so it cuts accurately.

I also found the square nuts to be hard to start on the track so I replaced them with the t-nuts shown in the picture.

@Oldwood - I salute you for developing creative work-arounds for two of the shortcomings which left me unsatisfied with my Seneca purchase some years ago. My work-around consists of developing a new no-compromise product without limitations imposed by a legacy product design. Of course, I had the benefit of hindsight looking at existing designs. [wink]

We solved the scales- and calibration problems  with several differentiating features:
1. our scales are one-piece engraved in a calibrated position on each  t-track
2. TSO tracks register precisely to the guide rail Adapter in the exact same spot everytime and cannot move
3. TSO's t-nuts are CNC machined with a double sided taper for easy insertion every time - no hardware store stamped t-nuts
4.TSO's calibration is repeatable between  TSO t-tracks

Hans

Why does the kit come with 20" and 30" tracks? Is it just to keep things from being too unwieldy?

Offline odessaboots

  • Posts: 22
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2020, 05:07 PM »
Quote
Different size rip cuts. 20 in can’t go above 27in. 30in can cut up to 37in


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But can't the 30in go as low as the 20in? Like, they overlap for 2/3 of the 30 in rail, seems a bit redundant. I would rather they offer the 30 in rail only, and then another 30in rail with another stop and the connector for longer rips. I already have the GRS-16, so trying to keep additional cost down, but staying in the same ecosystem.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 05:10 PM by odessaboots »

Offline Montag

  • Posts: 20
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2020, 05:10 PM »

Different size rip cuts. 20 in can’t go above 27in. 30in can cut up to 37in


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But can't the 30in go as low as the 20in? Like, they overlap for 2/3 of the 30 in rail, seems a bit redundant. I would rather they offer the 30 in rail only, and then another 30in rail with another stop and the connector for longer rips. I already have the GRS-16, so trying to keep additional cost down, but staying in the same ecosystem.
[/quote]
Apologies I’m thinking of the Seneca system. Thanks

Offline Montag

  • Posts: 20
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2020, 05:13 PM »
Quote
Different size rip cuts. 20 in can’t go above 27in. 30in can cut up to 37in


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But can't the 30in go as low as the 20in? Like, they overlap for 2/3 of the 30 in rail, seems a bit redundant. I would rather they offer the 30 in rail only, and then another 30in rail with another stop and the connector for longer rips. I already have the GRS-16, so trying to keep additional cost down, but staying in the same ecosystem.
Yes I see what you mean. Maybe Hans over at TSO can chime in

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2020, 07:49 PM »
@Oldwood – you said:” Since I retired it is hard selling the CFO on more tool purchases" 
To which I reply: wait until a suitable project comes up. Then the required result can often lead to a change of heart.

@odessaboots – you said: “Why does the (TSO Parallel Guide) kit come with 20" and 30" tracks? Is it just to keep things from being too unwieldy?”
TSO says: you hit the nail on the head. The longer the tracks the further you need to walk around them when you reposition for the next cut. To which you might say why not make the tracks connectable in smaller sections? – now we’re getting closer to an important difference:

TSO’s Parallel Guide components are literally thru-bolted together with the guide rail attachment. The positioning of our elements remains precisely fixed – no bolt clearance wiggle, no track connectors to slip a bit while you’re not watching, - no track able to move out of position on the adapter to the guide rail – a one-piece track for each application.
Yes, the 30” track can cut 20 inches – and a lot less with the included narrow stock calibration rod. By using the shortest track length possible for a job you have the most easy-to-handle set-up with no compromise in accuracy and set-up speed.

@Montag – did I answer your question above?

Hans

Offline odessaboots

  • Posts: 22
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2020, 08:17 PM »
@TSO_Products  - Makes sense, was just curious. I appreciate that it gives the user options that do not compromise on performance, since I agree that the more interfaces for connections, the more room for error.

I have a GRS-16, and love it, and really want a simple parallel guide solution for ripping down full sheets for cabinets. I do not need the other guide rail square, just a way to connect to the GRS-16 + a separate connector/bar/stop. To your credit you offer all of this, but man by the time I add up all the components I talk myself back into using my current setup, which is using a woodpecker rule with a stop and carefully butting it against the rail at numerous locations and clamping the rail. It works, but its a pain in the ***.

As an aside, the blue of your anodizing is marvelous.

Offline Mtpisgah

  • Posts: 25
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2020, 08:17 PM »
@TSO Products Do you know if are your guiderails are compatible with the Insta RailSquare?

Offline TSO_Products

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    • TSO Products LLC
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2020, 10:07 PM »
@TSO Products Do you know if are your guiderails are compatible with the Insta RailSquare?

@Mtpisgah - I interpret your question to apply to TSO's Parallel Guide (Pat.Pend)
The Insta Rail tool is sold to unsuspecting woodworkers without disclosing that it is a patent infringing imitation of TSO's original GRS-16 Guide Rail Square. It's reduced material thickness and reduced machining material removal make it seem improbable to function as a compatible part with our System components.

If you were taken in by the Insta Rail, we have a solution for you which functions independent of a guide rail square.
Reach out to me directly this weekend and I'll explain [smile].

Hans
hans@tsoproducts.com
 

Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 213
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2020, 04:32 AM »
As a retired physician I still have more money than sense, so I bought the Woodpeckers guide system because it’s gorgeous (And I hadn’t read about the TSO system—I now have their square). But fitting together the guide pieces (short pieces that fit neatly in a Systainer) is awkward and  time-consuming. I don’t need it to fit in a Systainer since I will only use it in my garage workshop.
I really like that Hans is on FOG, answers questions, and looks for ways to improve his product.
Für uns...ist das Beste gerade gut genug!

Offline Mtpisgah

  • Posts: 25
Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2020, 09:45 PM »
@TSO Products Do you know if are your guiderails are compatible with the Insta RailSquare?

@Mtpisgah - I interpret your question to apply to TSO's Parallel Guide (Pat.Pend)
The Insta Rail tool is sold to unsuspecting woodworkers without disclosing that it is a patent infringing imitation of TSO's original GRS-16 Guide Rail Square. It's reduced material thickness and reduced machining material removal make it seem improbable to function as a compatible part with our System components.

If you were taken in by the Insta Rail, we have a solution for you which functions independent of a guide rail square.
Reach out to me directly this weekend and I'll explain [smile].

Hans
hans@tsoproducts.com

Email sent from an unsuspecting newbie woodworker.

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2020, 11:15 PM »
I have both GSRs and the full TPG-50 package.  As I use them now I wish I had been able to buy just the 30s, both left and right, only.  I leave them attached to my GSRs and the others have not come out of the package yet.  So far I haven't found the need, but maybe some day.

Offline Precision Dogs

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Re: Precision Dogs Parallel Guides or Seneca Parallel Guide
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2020, 11:40 PM »
Hi, so I've searched and many people said between the Seneca, Woodpecker, and Precision Dogs parallel systems, they all get the job done. But I have seen the Precision Dogs have been updated to include side screws so there is less wiggle room for the incra tracks. Also, looks like the Seneca guide complete system is on sale for $225, down from the original $289. So with those two little caveats, what do some of you think is the better option? Has anyone used the updated Precision Dogs? Either way I think I would be updating the incra track for a longer one but for $165 you can get the Precision Dogs with a 24" track. I've completely ruled out Woodpecker based on the price tag and positive comments on the other two. Thanks for the suggestions/comments

Hi @Montag ! Thank you for considering our Precision Parallel Guides.
Our parallel guides will work as implied in their name. With them you will be able to rip sheet goods and other form material to the width set by our specially designed stop aka Length adapters.

-Length adapters’ sides have a chamfered edge which makes reading scale easy without parallax.

-The scales are adjustable, but they sit in the T-track slot firmly. If you want them to be permanent, add a piece of scotch tape under it and they will not move at all.

-All T-nuts in our system are tapered with a large surface compared to square buts which ensures a firm grip to your Guide rail and Incra T-track.

-By design our parallel guides sit on top of the surface to be ripped so there is no issue of weight distribution causing your guide rail (Festool, Makita, or Triton) to flip. Also the sides of material you work with can be square to your parallels but don’t have to be. This comes in handy when you are ripping non square shaped forms.

-Another plus is that 100% of your guide rail length can be usable for your length of cut.

-If you will require a wider ripping capacity (with 24” tracks you will get roughly a 31” ripping capacity) you can get 36” or 48” tracks which will result in 43” and 55” ripping capacity respectively for under $50 a pair shipped.

Following calibration and setup described in detail with pictures in Precision Parallel Guides Manual will guarantee that you will get parallel cuts or your money back. It means that you can get our guides and play with them for 2 weeks as much as you want. If you will not be satisfied for some reason you can return them for a full refund (no restocking fee whatsoever). We don’t expect them to be returned in pristine condition, so do not worry if it will get scratched or the surface will not be pristine.

Contact me if you have any questions via email info@precisiondogs.us or call me at (213)290-5076.   

Good luck on your search!
Jerry   
IG- @precisiondogs
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/precisiondogs