Author Topic: North American TS60 doesn't have PlugIt?? (Read 6360 times)

bwehman · « **on:** March 17, 2023, 01:28 PM »

Just saw this on Festool Live today... Totally bummed about this if true. I often just leave a single plug-it cord in the main dust extractor and just switch tools as needed. The reason given was to give it all the power they can, but the TS 75 is a plug-it and I would assume that has more power draw than the brushless TS 60? Anybody know the reasoning here? Seems like an off-brand decision.

Distinctive Interiors · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2023, 02:47 PM »

I just checked online and looked at the 110v version of that saw that's available here in the UK......Its got a Plug It lead...!!

Why would Festool feel the need to remove the Plug It cord connection on the US version, when technically, the loading of the 2 saws would be almost identical...?

squall_line · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2023, 03:35 PM »

I guess I should have tuned in (although it's much quicker to watch it at 1.25 or 1.5 speed and without all of the intro and outro later).

Just checked it out; Sedge claimed "we wanted to get it here quickly, and we didn't want to stahve the motor of power." The feed cut out, but it sounded like they might one day go to plug-it, but don't know what it will take to get the current they need.

The top RPM have been increased to 6800 RPM, and when you take into account the larger blade, that's a pretty big increase in blade tip speed.

guybo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2023, 04:00 PM »

Hi, looks to me a plug-it can be added @anytime,also see comment from fusa

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2023, 05:43 PM »

Quote from: guybo on March 17, 2023, 04:00 PM

Hi, looks to me a plug-it can be added @anytime,also see comment from fusa

Probably voids the warranty in the process.

This lack of Plug-it seems ridiculous to me. How could that possibly be any faster?
The TS75 has Plug-it, so I'm calling BS on this

mcooley · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2023, 06:11 PM »

Interesting. Like he said their designers listen in terms of improvements like the "level back end of the saw" for blade changes etc. The plunge handle might also be an improvement besides the knobs. I wonder how much it wants to still tip in the 45 degree cut etc.

But no plug-it just seems totally backwards and if it does indeed exist in Europe then even crazier. But hey they made sure the new hose fitting is backward compatible!

What a weird culture at Festool. The ratio of designers to engineers if like in the past might still be heavily weighted on the engineer side.

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2023, 06:35 PM »

If this bit of stupid turns out to be true, I'll do all I can to get ahold of a UK unit.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2023, 06:55 PM »

I'll throw out a ~~spitball~~ theory. Perhaps some of the delay that we have always experienced here in North America with new tool introductions has had something to do in part with delays in getting the required approvals due to something with the plug-it connectors.

Personally I would rather see that tool here without the plug-it sooner versus waiting. It has been quite some time since I actually am excited to see a new tool. Maybe because it is a new tool and not an evolutionary refresh.

Just my

.

Peter

bwehman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2023, 07:46 PM »

I was thinking this too. The fact that Sedge mentioned wanting to get it here sooner was the big clue. And I think the supposed rush would make sense given the timing and hype of Milwaukee's new track saw. Pretty strategic.

Willing to bet that they'll quietly change it to PlugIt as soon as they can. It seems like they went through some great lengths to streamline SKUs, like sharing this TS 60 blade with the new table saw, and even having both imperial and metric scales on the same saw rather than forcing a choice between two versions. I bet it's irritating them to have to have a one-off version without PlugIt.

woodferret · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2023, 08:45 PM »

Needs more power, yet plugs it into the CT Vac.

squall_line · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2023, 09:07 PM »

Quote from: bwehman on March 17, 2023, 07:46 PM

I was thinking this too. The fact that Sedge mentioned wanting to get it here sooner was the big clue. And I think the supposed rush would make sense given the timing and hype of Milwaukee's new track saw. Pretty strategic.

Willing to bet that they'll quietly change it to PlugIt as soon as they can. It seems like they went through some great lengths to streamline SKUs, like sharing this TS 60 blade with the new table saw, and even having both imperial and metric scales on the same saw rather than forcing a choice between two versions. I bet it's irritating them to have to have a one-off version without PlugIt.

This is too logical for me to accept at this time on a Friday evening. Darn you.

NiteWalkerGR · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2023, 09:09 PM »

Yeah that was a huge bummer for me as well. I was on the fence about selling my ts55 to upgrade to the ts60 but lack of a plugit is a deal killer for me. That's probably one of my top three favorite features of the festool system. Hopefully they change to a plugit in the future, but for now, I'll stick with my ts55.

slavi.yordanov · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2023, 09:52 PM »

Quote from: bwehman on March 17, 2023, 07:46 PM

I was thinking this too. The fact that Sedge mentioned wanting to get it here sooner was the big clue. And I think the supposed rush would make sense given the timing and hype of Milwaukee's new track saw. Pretty strategic.

Willing to bet that they'll quietly change it to PlugIt as soon as they can. It seems like they went through some great lengths to streamline SKUs, like sharing this TS 60 blade with the new table saw, and even having both imperial and metric scales on the same saw rather than forcing a choice between two versions. I bet it's irritating them to have to have a one-off version without PlugIt.

Milwaukee’s track saw is cordless, so I don’t see the ts60 being in the same category/market.

It’s not like I was looking at buying one, but to not have one of the main festool features is weird. Kind of like a battery tool limited to one battery size (CTC wink, wink)

Is a TSC60 in the works? I’ll be interested in that one.

Cheese · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2023, 10:05 PM »

This is pretty strange...so Festool suddenly feels the need to RUSH the TS 60 to the US while it took them 5 years to slow walk the Vac Sys to the States along with other tools that are still not available here?

I like Sedge but he is after all, just an extension of the marketing arm of Festool. He may be entertaining, he may be cute/funny, and to some, he may even be obnoxious but he is still just a marketeer at heart. He may feel he comes across differently because that's the area he owns and he knows, but that's not where he eventually lands.

Just noticed that the newly released TSV 60 has an amperage rating of 1500W +190W.
The TS 75 has an amperage rating of 1600W
The TS 60 has an amperage rating of 1500W

So...The TSV 60 has a Plug-it.
The TS 75 has a Plug-it.
However the TS 60 does not have a Plug-it because current draw may be an issue?
What's wrong with this program? There's something else happening here.

squall_line · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2023, 10:18 PM »

Is the TSV brushless like the TS60? The 75 is brushed, I believe. I don't know how much "clean power" has to do with the requirements. Although the TS55 is brushless, too? I can't keep any of them straight anymore.

If it's a UL listing they're after, this does feel like they rushed it to market to try to capture/maintain job site guys, since it can use the FSK rails. Demonstrating that it can cut an LVL beam in one pass and mentioning that it can finally cut all the way through a 2x4 at a 45 degree angle sounds like they're aiming this at the people they disappointed with the HK 55.

That said, if they were going to rush anything into the states to use on the FSK rails, how about rushing over a few HK 85s?

Cheese · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2023, 10:40 PM »

Quote from: squall_line on March 17, 2023, 10:18 PM

That said, if they were going to rush anything into the states to use on the FSK rails, how about rushing over a few HK 85s?

AMEN...I've never been able to understand the Festool marketeers, and over the years I really doubt they have a strong/clear vision for the future. In the last several years, they seem to have adopted an ad hoc position.

The engineering group seems strong...the marketeers...not so much. Then again, marketing is not that far removed from sales, on a DNA level, and we all know the stumbling blocks that the promotion of unfettered sales produce.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2023, 11:06 PM »

I must be the odd man out. I get a new tool, lock in the Plug-It cord, unless the cord needs to be removed to place the tool back into the Systainer the cord never gets removed.

Tom

morts10n · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2023, 11:17 PM »

I switched a bunch of tools to plug-it pigtails for conformity. After 3 months I switched them all back. I like individual cords and plug everything that Im using
into a powerstrip that is plugged in a Midi or CT26. The powerstrip is mounted to a plywood platform that locks onto a systainer parked on top of CT

ChuckS · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2023, 12:59 AM »

The Plug-it is definitely better, but it is no deal killer even though I use just one cord with my CT15 for the Domino Joiner and the Pro5 sanders.

So between waiting for a year(?) or even two and having a TS 60 to use immediately, I'd for sure get a non Plug-it version. The benefits of the TS60 over the TS55 and TS75 make the type of plug a non issue in comparison. If the plug were a determining factor, I wouldn't have got the Kapex, which isn't on the Plug-it platform.

bwehman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2023, 02:55 AM »

Quote from: ChuckS on March 18, 2023, 12:59 AM

The Plug-it is definitely better, but it is no deal killer even though I use just one cord with my CT15 for the Domino Joiner and the Pro5 sanders.

So between waiting for a year(?) or even two and having a TS 60 to use immediately, I'd for sure get a non Plug-it version. The benefits of the TS60 over the TS55 and TS75 make the type of plug a non issue in comparison. If the plug were a determining factor, I wouldn't have got the Kapex, which isn't on the Plug-it platform.

Who knows, maybe the 2023 non-Plug-it version will be some weird unicorn tool that always sells for crazy high prices on eBay, ha. Special edition and we don't even know it yet.

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2023, 07:26 AM »

It's definitely a deal killer for me. Of all the Festool equipment that I have (not counting CTs) I have used exactly 3 cords. One is a non-plug-it on the RAS115, the others are connected to the CT26 on one end of the bench and the other on the CT15 that kind of roams around my area.
I learned early on, the hard way, about the low amp vs high amp differences. So, I keep the high amp ones out for use with everything and the others are all in a drawer with the manuals.
Since I might have 3 or 4 different tools out at once, switching the hose and cable is much better than all of those cords hanging around individually. Plus, it makes it a lot easier to put them away. In the Systainer they go, cable hanging with the CT.
I would swap my RAS in a hot second to get a Plug-it on there too and one of the reasons that I will probably never have an RO2200.

My battery platform of choice is Makita, so even a TSC60 would not sway me.
I have been hot on this saw since day one of hearing about it and never thought this would be a thing?
I'm not buying the reasoning so far. If Plug-it was a brand new concept, sure. It's not and has been proven for years. The UK saws have it, so making them without is an extra step, which seems slower, not faster. The only thing that would have to be different from the UK version is the cable itself and the literature inside the Systainer.

Coen · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2023, 07:57 AM »

What? That is super weird. And I guess nobody ever got an official comment from Festool on this issue?

Quote from: Peter Halle on March 17, 2023, 06:55 PM

I'll throw out a ~~spitball~~ theory. Perhaps some of the delay that we have always experienced here in North America with new tool introductions has had something to do in part with delays in getting the required approvals due to something with the plug-it connectors.

Personally I would rather see that tool here without the plug-it sooner versus waiting. It has been quite some time since I actually am excited to see a new tool. Maybe because it is a new tool and not an evolutionary refresh.

Just my .

Peter

So much for land of the free

Quote from: tjbnwi on March 17, 2023, 11:06 PM

I must be the odd man out. I get a new tool, lock in the Plug-It cord, unless the cord needs to be removed to place the tool back into the Systainer the cord never gets removed.

Tom

I always remove the plug it cord. Makes it easier to place the tool in the box, easier to clean the tool, easier to clean the cord. Etc. Also with half the Systainers the cord ends up sitting in a weird bend when you let it stay on.

Quote from: woodferret on March 17, 2023, 08:45 PM

Needs more power, yet plugs it into the CT Vac.

Hurrah for 230V. Currently pushing solar power back into the grid... 3700W through 2.5mm²

woodferret · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2023, 08:23 AM »

Quote from: morts10n on March 17, 2023, 11:17 PM

I switched a bunch of tools to plug-it pigtails for conformity. After 3 months I switched them all back. I like individual cords and plug everything that Im using
into a powerstrip that is plugged in a Midi or CT26. The powerstrip is mounted to a plywood platform that locks onto a systainer parked on top of CT

I don't mind power cords if they had brought over the powerhub.

And then they also quietly discontinued the CT-VA20 power adapter.... now that they release the one commonly used tool (aside from OF2200) that needs to be unplugged at the source. :/

This must be a OSHA (nested extension cords) thing.

Next up will be the removal of the power socket on the CT vac.

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2023, 08:31 AM »

Quote from: woodferret on March 18, 2023, 08:23 AM

This must be a OSHA (nested extension cords) thing.

Next up will be the removal of the power socket on the CT vac.

But why would that matter on one tool versus the others?

woodferret · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2023, 08:57 AM »

Quote from: Crazyraceguy on March 18, 2023, 08:31 AM

But why would that matter on one tool versus the others?

I was being cheeky about the vacuum power port. The OSHA letter concerning chained power extensions was 2015, so a PowerHub (2016?, suppose to be plugged into the wall with GFCI) plugged into a CT would invalidate the UL listing. Because the way litigation works, I assume they are worried that if Sedge or any Festool marketing affiliates plugged that baby into the CT, it would open up legal liability if someone decides to be a dick about being dinged for an OSHA violation.

Tools, plugged directly into a CT is fine. Tools, plugged into a CT plugged into a power strip not for GFCI purposes but for sharing is not fine. Tools plugged into a relocated receptacle plugged into the CT, plugged into the wall would need UL for that CT-VA20-combo otherwise that little $40 addon falls into the extension cord rule if I'm reading this right.

guybo · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2023, 06:53 PM »

Seems the uk 110v will be hard wired also ,only 230v will have plug it. also the tsv they had at the recap was also hard wired.So question for those across the pond what is the difference between 230v socket and the 110v socket?

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2023, 07:05 PM »

@woodferret what I was meaning is why would any tool be acceptable under that scenario? They still sell the others with the Plug-it. How is a new one a problem?
As far as the multiple cord thing goes, that is not a manufacturer's problem. How the tool is used (or misused) later shouldn't be a consideration for them or the OSHA types. Besides, who says the thing is going to be used in a situation where OSHA can even stick their nose into it?

Distinctive Interiors · « **Reply #27 on:** March 19, 2023, 07:07 AM »

Quote from: guybo on March 18, 2023, 06:53 PM

Seems the uk 110v will be hard wired also ,only 230v will have plug it. also the tsv they had at the recap was also hard wired.So question for those across the pond what is the difference between 230v socket and the 110v socket?

As I stated in my earlier post,....The UK version of the TS 60 110v, is shown as having a Plug It cord, as is the 240v version...!!!
Here is a link to the Festool UK page on their website.

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/sawing/circular-saws/576725---ts-60-keb-plus-gb-110v

And I know for certain that the UK version of the TSV 60 240v, definitely has a Plug It connector with a heavy duty, anti-cut, geen power lead, coz I was given the opportunity to put the saw through its paces at the Festool HQ here in the UK 3 days ago.....

It would seem as though there is conflicting information out there at the moment.....

Coen · « **Reply #28 on:** March 19, 2023, 08:48 AM »

The pics on the UK website of the 110V show a normal 230V version complete with the 230V Schuko plug.

Coen · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2023, 08:50 AM »

Quote from: guybo on March 18, 2023, 06:53 PM

Seems the uk 110v will be hard wired also ,only 230v will have plug it. also the tsv they had at the recap was also hard wired.So question for those across the pond what is the difference between 230v socket and the 110v socket?

That first pic shows the TSV, not the TS