Author Topic: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill  (Read 11797 times)

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Offline Doug S

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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline DynaGlide

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2021, 09:23 AM »
On one hand I'm glad I haven't bought the TSC 55 yet. On the other, I have no need for that new kickback sensor if I'm on a guide rail 100% of the time. Cool tech though.
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Offline neeleman

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2021, 03:42 PM »

Here are a few specs of the new 2021 models.
TSC 55 K with KickbackStop protection
TPC 18 Quaddrive brushless percusion 4 speed drill
TDC 18 Quaddrive brushless 4 speed drill
both drills come with kickback protection, Bluetooth connection to phone app to change Forward/Reverse button function for left handed users.
Festoolian since 1998.
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Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 141
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2021, 04:40 PM »
They also mention a "new generation of saw blades" in the article, whatever that means. I'm curious if Festool is coming out with new blades for TS55 and why they felt an update was needed.

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2021, 05:09 PM »
So the gear selector got a massive overhaul it seems, I guess those who had issues with it in the past, will be happy now. But from the picture, the drill seems to be more beefy/thicker. I guess I need to see & handle this in person! :)

Kind regards,
Oliver

Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 141
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2021, 07:21 PM »
The gear selector looks a lot like Fein's. Maybe Fein is making the TPC? They did quite a few collaborations with Festool in the past.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2021, 10:02 PM »
So the gear selector got a massive overhaul it seems, I guess those who had issues with it in the past, will be happy now. But from the picture, the drill seems to be more beefy/thicker. I guess I need to see & handle this in person! :)

Kind regards,
Oliver

The plastic housing portion looks very much like the TiD18.

Seth

Offline mino

  • Posts: 222
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2021, 06:09 AM »
The gear selector looks a lot like Fein's. Maybe Fein is making the TPC? They did quite a few collaborations with Festool in the past.
Or Festool making for Fein ... with Fein piloting the market as the smaller company.
For sure it looks like a joint collaboration on the basic gearbox/switch design and likely the motor assy. A good thing IMO.

Was looking at a PDC to complement my DRC. With this it will combine the cordless percussion with a "super-screwdriver" role I was thinking of getting from Makita. Nice!
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
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Offline notenoughcash

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2021, 08:30 AM »
i may pick one up allongside a t18 if i decide i am rich enough.

and typical, ive just got a tsc [mad] [mad] [mad]
turns out that woodworking is 1% making things you'll use, 4% making bespoke high end firewood, 15% cleaning, and 80% looking for the bl**dy thing you just put down

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2021, 08:59 AM »
Here's a Video, German: https://www.h3.plus/de/c/bereit-fuer-das-unschlagbare-doppel-tg#yes

TSC 55 K won't have an actual riving knife, instead it will glide on top of the material and release/activate the kick back protection when it's not making contact with the surface anymore. (As far as I understand this!)

Not sure how I feel about this.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 100
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2021, 09:35 AM »
The new saw blades are 1.8mm and not 2.2mm. I actually think that is a BIG advantage as long as any shatter is under control. The HK55 already has 1.8 blades. Mafell's tracksaw has 1.8 blades as well. The smaller kerf means that the new saw has to cut significantly less material, which makes a big different for power, battery life and cut quality. A lot of people say that the Mafell is more powerful and I think part of the reason is the smaller kerf.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 222
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2021, 11:37 AM »
The new saw blades are 1.8mm and not 2.2mm.
This may be a bit of a pain.
The current blades use 2.2 kerf teeth on an 1.6 mm disc for 0.3 mm difference (each side). The difference is what one calibrates his rail for in turn.

They would have to go for ultra-thin 1.2 discs half with 1.8 teeth to keep the blades interchangeable.

But this would make them less than half as stable for harder use cases so I would expect 1.8/1.4 or 1.8/1.3 setting which would be a bit of a pain pain as no other maker does blades with under 0.3 mm difference - I am aware off.

Can someone measure the HK55 blades disc thickness ?
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36(fixed@LR32), EVP 13 H-2CA
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Offline Svar

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2021, 11:59 AM »
Here's a Video, German: https://www.h3.plus/de/c/bereit-fuer-das-unschlagbare-doppel-tg#yes
TSC 55 K won't have an actual riving knife, instead it will glide on top of the material and release/activate the kick back protection when it's not making contact with the surface anymore. (As far as I understand this!)
Not sure how I feel about this.
Kind regards,
Oliver
It seems that you can't use this "improved" saw without rail. When starting a cut (without rail) the unti-kickback trigger will not be pressed in and the saw won't start.
Besides, all this electronic kickback protection on various saws miss another important function of riving knife. Namely, keeping kerf from closing in on the blade too much and gauging the surface while not necessarily stalling the blade. Typically when cutting thin strips.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 12:06 PM by Svar »

Offline slavi.yordanov

  • Posts: 32
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2021, 04:29 PM »
That drill looks sweet! My C18's drill/screw switch on top sucks. Always switching between modes accidentally. I wonder if the new drill will be compatible with the C18's heads. They look to have similar style locking mechanism, unlike the PDC.

If the kickback system is the only difference between the new and old TSC55, it would be disappointing. I had the cordless Makita Tracksaw until recently and I have never had a problem with kickbacks, unless I did something stupid.

Offline Svar

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2021, 04:53 PM »
I have never had a problem with kickbacks, unless I did something stupid.
So, then you did have problem with kickbacks. This is exactly why safety features are in place, for when people make mistakes, which is a human nature.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 04:59 PM by Svar »

Offline ScotF

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2021, 09:55 AM »
These features are what Mafell has in its saws and why no riving knife. The corded saw is more powerful...it is 400 watts more powerful. Equivalent of TS 75 motor on TS55 housing. It also uses thinner blade as noted. I have, use and like all variants of the Festool range and Mafell corded. All have pros and cons. Do not necessarily think this upgrade is worth it on the saw vs the current version, but I have not had kickback issues either.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 222
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2021, 10:27 PM »
So, checked my TSC.

The riving knife is 2.1 mm thick. This means the TS 55 R/TSC 55 will *not* accept the new blades without a retrofit thinner riving knife or some home modification to make the knife about 1,7 mm or so.

Overall, happy for the new blades as it will mean more real cut power.

Otherwise the sensor versus riving knife is a trade-off.
Someone will love no frig'n riving knife while other will miss the guiding properties of the riving knife in free-hand cutting etc.

I will be in the second camp, but will probably tune the knife for the thinner blades after I get through my current blade set.
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
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Offline mrB

  • Posts: 833
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2021, 04:05 PM »


I wonder if the hammer function sounds any better than the PDC? Man that sound was tough to deal with.

The new right angle chuck looks smaller, which is nice. But I hope compatibility with the old chucks is there.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 04:14 PM by mrB »
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1271
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2021, 04:26 PM »
My experiences with the thinner blades (1.8 mm) on the HKC 55:
CONS
- getting dull faster
- can be sharpened fewer times
- FS guide rail has to be realigned or renew
- blades are bending to easily when taking of small pieces or skew direction
PROS
- faster sawing
- less dust
- less battery drainage
- less tearout
- FSK rails are great
Despite the CONS on the blades it's still a nice saw and I use it everyday.
Shame that the old and new blades are not interchangeable between the TS/TSC/HK/HKC, also when used on guide rails.
Maybe Festool should design different spacers for every type of blade to align to the guide rail strip.
Festoolian since 1998.
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Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1271
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2021, 04:54 PM »
Here's a video about the TSC 55 K and TPC 18/4.
Unfortunately for some it's in German/Swiss language.
But the pictures speek for them selves.
Vimeo
Finally there's also a new offset chuck for the TPC/TDC drills.
Festoolian since 1998.
FESTOOL:
RTSC400Li | CTL MIDI I | SYSROCK BR10 | SYSLITE KAL II | SV-SYS D14 | DSC-AG125FH | CDD9.6 | SYSLITE DUO | DF700 | HKC55 | TXS2.6 | CTL SYS | CXS2.6 | DWC18 | CTWings | BHC18 | CS50 | CMS-OF | MFT/3 | MFT/3-VL | KS120 | TS55 R | PSC420 | PS420 | BS75 | RAS115 | RO90 | RO150 | RS400 | RTS400 | RS300 | LS130 | DX93 | ETS150/5 | ETS150/3 | OF1010 | OF1400 | OFK500 | MFK700 | T18 | EHL65 | CTL26 | CTL22 | WCR1000 | D27-AS Plug-it | D36 UNI-RS | D36x7 | D50x2.5 | FS800 | FS800/2 | FS1080/2 | FS1400/2 (2x) | FS3000/2 | FSK250 | FSK420 | Gecko Dosh | Toolie | CE-SYS-2010 | RB-SYS CART (2x) | LEV1400 | LEV350 | SYS-MFT
PROTOOL:
CHP26 | PDC18 | FLC UNI | VCP260 | DSC-AGP125 | DSC-AGP230 | DSG-AGP125 | DRP16

Offline mino

  • Posts: 222
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2021, 10:55 AM »
My experiences with the thinner blades (1.8 mm) on the HKC 55:
CONS
- getting dull faster
- can be sharpened fewer times
- FS guide rail has to be realigned or renew
- blades are bending to easily when taking of small pieces or skew direction
PROS
- faster sawing
- less dust
- less battery drainage
- less tearout
- FSK rails are great
Despite the CONS on the blades it's still a nice saw and I use it everyday.
Shame that the old and new blades are not interchangeable between the TS/TSC/HK/HKC, also when used on guide rails.
Maybe Festool should design different spacers for every type of blade to align to the guide rail strip.
Do you have the 32-tooth fine blade and/or the Panther for the HKC?
Can you measure the "disc" width ?

The 2.2mm blades are 2.2/1.6 so in theory an 1.8 would have to be super-thin as 1.8/1.2 to be "compatible" if used in same machine rail combo.

CMT makes super-thin blades which are  1.7/1.1 that would fit on a TS/TSC55 were it not for the riving knife being too thick for them. We use the 1.7/1.1 for ripping on our Lidl/Parkside tracksaw along with the Festool 2.2/1.6 ones and the have the exact same contact with the guard. We even use special aluminum-cutting blades which are 2.8/2.2.

As long as the different between the kerf and the disk width is the same, the only compatibility limitation is the width of the riving knife which tends to be optimized for specific kerf.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 10:48 PM by mino »
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36(fixed@LR32), EVP 13 H-2CA
My Precious FS/2: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 2520

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 954
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2021, 05:41 AM »


I wonder if the hammer function sounds any better than the PDC? Man that sound was tough to deal with.

The new right angle chuck looks smaller, which is nice. But I hope compatibility with the old chucks is there.

I'll definitely be getting the new drill. The PDC that I own works well but the speed control is dodgy, and having more than one drill that kan use the different chucks  I already own is a smart move in the system when the  existing PDC drill broke or I had a helper on a job.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 05:44 AM by PreferrablyWood »
TS 55 R EBQ, Vecturo OSC, BHC SDS, RO 150, 850 HL E Planer, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, OF 2200, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set, 
Festool 18V HKC 55, TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus   TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2021, 03:54 PM »
I have TPC 18 EC-TEC  at home for a short time. :-) You can ask questions.


The extensions fit all - DRC / PDC and T 18 and C18 ;-)

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2021, 04:03 PM »
Now that they moved the torque setting to the back, it wouldn't happen to have a selector to switch between drilling and driving screws, like the C18 has? (So the torque setting is simply taken out of the game while drilling and remains set for driving screws.)

Thank you!

Oh, and if you happen to have a PDC, it would be great to see some comparison shots. :)

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2021, 04:09 PM »
Combined rotary switch: 1-13, drilling, light off, light on (lit for 30 s). There is no separate switch. I'll take a photo with PDC tomorrow :-). TPC 18/4 EC-TEC seems more robust.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2021, 05:18 PM »
Does the hammer action have the same high speed scream as the PDC? Or have they toned it down more in line with other manufacturers hammer function?

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 802
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2021, 06:39 PM »
Now that they moved the torque setting to the back, it wouldn't happen to have a selector to switch between drilling and driving screws, like the C18 has? (So the torque setting is simply taken out of the game while drilling and remains set for driving screws.)

Thank you!

Oh, and if you happen to have a PDC, it would be great to see some comparison shots. :)

Kind regards,
Oliver

Wheel + switch was one of the things in my list going for the Festool drills. In the end... Buying 3 Bosch drills for the same price won me over to the camp with the bigass boxes with dumb inlays (Bosch GSR 18v-6 + GSR 12v-35 + GSR 12v-35 FC)

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 833
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2021, 08:10 PM »
Does the hammer action have the same high speed scream as the PDC? Or have they toned it down more in line with other manufacturers hammer function?

This.

Also is it lighter/smaller than the pdc?

Are you saying old c18/t18 chucks fit as well as old pdc chucks? (Obviously the regular chucks will all fit, but the right angle & eccentric ones are the question)

Cheers
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 78
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2021, 08:44 PM »
Hi Otakar,

Could you measure the weight of the drill without battery or chuck?
Also interested in the size comparison to the PDC.

thank you.

wpz

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 100
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2021, 08:46 PM »
Looks like there also is a new corded TS 55 S. Here is a short article in German: https://www.h3.plus/de/c/akku-tauchsaege-mit-noch-mehr-durchzugskraft-festool-schweiz-ag

Makes sense that both tools use the same blades. It’s not entirely clear but the TS 55 S might get the brushless motor. The new blades will work with TSC 55 K, TS 55 S und HK(C) 55.

It’s also not entirely clear but it might be the case that only the TSC 55 k will get the anti kickback system.

Both seem to go on sale on Feb 16 in Switzerland. The article is from early December though.

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2021, 02:48 AM »
Does the hammer action have the same high speed scream as the PDC? Or have they toned it down more in line with other manufacturers hammer function?


TPC has a classic hammer (same as PDC ) If you want a pneumatic hammer, buy BHC (SDS -plus)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2021, 02:51 AM »
Does the hammer action have the same high speed scream as the PDC? Or have they toned it down more in line with other manufacturers hammer function?

This.

Also is it lighter/smaller than the pdc?

Are you saying old c18/t18 chucks fit as well as old pdc chucks? (Obviously the regular chucks will all fit, but the right angle & eccentric ones are the question)

Cheers

The right angle & eccentric ones also fit. :-)

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1161
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2021, 03:37 AM »
How does the combined rotary switch work for the light? Is the light on/off activated by pressing on the same switch, or is it a rotary position,so you can't use the light while driving screws with a clutch setting?

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 833
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2021, 05:03 AM »
Does the hammer action have the same high speed scream as the PDC? Or have they toned it down more in line with other manufacturers hammer function?


TPC has a classic hammer (same as PDC ) If you want a pneumatic hammer, buy BHC (SDS -plus)

It’s the noise we are asking about. The PDC made the most horrendous screaming sound in hammer mode, literally the reason I eventually parted with mine. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about I’m shocked :)

Thanks for the replies.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline mino

  • Posts: 222
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2021, 06:37 AM »
It’s the noise we are asking about. The PDC made the most horrendous screaming sound in hammer mode, literally the reason I eventually parted with mine. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about I’m shocked :)
But the "noise" is not a property of the mechanism but of the sheer speed of the drill.

Other percussion drills do not have the high 4000 style RPM so they have a different, more amenable, sound. If it bothers you try using the 3rd or even 2nd gear. It will go slower (into masonry) and better into concrete (which one should not use it for) but will be easier on the ears. I.e., it will perform about the same as a Makita or Bosch at 1500 rpm in both departments.

Classic percussion power drills are screamers too percussion is used at their high rpm settings.

On top of that the 4-speed gearbox has more moving parts, so it will always rattle a -bit- more always. But the annoying high pitch is from the sheer speed. I have an 1100/3000 rpm percussion drill, and it is similarly obnoxious at the high speed setting.
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36(fixed@LR32), EVP 13 H-2CA
My Precious FS/2: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 2520

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1607
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2021, 06:54 AM »
Combined rotary switch: 1-13, drilling, light off, light on (lit for 30 s). There is no separate switch. I'll take a photo with PDC tomorrow :-). TPC 18/4 EC-TEC seems more robust.

Thank you very much, Otakar!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2021, 08:13 AM »
Does the hammer action have the same high speed scream as the PDC? Or have they toned it down more in line with other manufacturers hammer function?
TPC has a classic hammer (same as PDC ) If you want a pneumatic hammer, buy BHC (SDS -plus)
As Mr B said, I’m talking about the noise only. I have a BHC and am aware of the mechanical difference, but the PDC has a ‘unique’ sound (to put it politely) and I’m curious if the TPC is the same.
I have an 1100/3000 rpm percussion drill, and it is similarly obnoxious at the high speed setting.
I’ve used lots of different hammer drills and none have anything like the scream of the PDC, regardless of rpm. Perhaps the PDC does more ‘hammers’ per revolution, perhaps it’s something else that causes the difference, I don’t know. Whatever it is, the PDC is unpleasant to use on hammer, which is a shame.

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2021, 01:11 PM »
How does the combined rotary switch work for the light? Is the light on/off activated by pressing on the same switch, or is it a rotary position,so you can't use the light while driving screws with a clutch setting?

The light illuminates when screwing and drilling. Then the rotary switch can be switched to the "light off" position (full drilling torque). The last position is "light on" (full drilling torque) and the light is still on 10 minutes after releasing the drilling switch.

Offline Frank-Jan

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2021, 02:33 PM »
Thanks for clarifying, it's a pity they didn't make the light trigger activated like on most drills.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2021, 02:37 PM »
How does the combined rotary switch work for the light? Is the light on/off activated by pressing on the same switch, or is it a rotary position,so you can't use the light while driving screws with a clutch setting?

The light illuminates when screwing and drilling. Then the rotary switch can be switched to the "light off" position (full drilling torque). The last position is "light on" (full drilling torque) and the light is still on 10 minutes after releasing the drilling switch.


Thanks for clarifying, it's a pity they didn't make the light trigger activated like on most drills.


I think he means that it works by the trigger as well as the two wheel positions.

Seth

Offline Frank-Jan

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2021, 05:24 PM »
O yes, I misunderstood, after re-reading it makes sense.
I got my second pdc not so long ago, and the light doesn't work with the trigger, but it has it's own button, (my first pdc doesn't have a light at all). 

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 78
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2021, 08:56 AM »
There are some new videos on the Festool youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/festool

apparently you can control the led setting on the tpc and tdc also with your smartphone.

The new TS55F (the corded one) has the normal riving knife, not the kickback control of the new battery powered version, so the only difference seems to be the thinner blades (and a thinner riving knife) as far as I can tell.

wpz

Offline Maestronus

  • Posts: 17
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2021, 09:23 AM »
Details of the new products are found on the Festool websites: https://www.festool.co.uk/products/new-products

- SYS-PowerStation
- TPC/TDC drills
- TS 55 F and TSC 55 K
- Centrotec Auger bit set
DTS 400 REQ — CTL MINI I — PDC 18/4 — AGC 18-125 Li EB

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2021, 10:41 AM »
So a slightly revised TS55, and they call it F.  This will really cause confusion in N.A.  where the saws and other tools all ready have "F" in the name.  Will it be TS 55 FF here?   EFFFF?

Offline Frank-Jan

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2021, 11:36 AM »
Now it's called the TS55 REQ-F, so the new name will probably be TS55 FEQ-F. The short name on the festoolusa site is now TS55 R, and that will probably be TS55 F.

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2021, 12:36 PM »
So Festool USA is showing the new TSC,   looks like K so it's now. KEBI-F,  was REBI-F

Shocking to see this on the site all ready.

Offline Frank-Jan

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2021, 12:47 PM »
When I was typing the previous message, the FEQ-F didn't sound right in my head, maybe that's why they would change the name [wink].

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2021, 12:58 PM »
Hi Otakar,

Could you measure the weight of the drill without battery or chuck?
Also interested in the size comparison to the PDC.

thank you.

wpz


TPC 18/4.... 1270g
PDC 18/4.....1250g

 [smile]

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2021, 01:34 PM »
O yes, I misunderstood, after re-reading it makes sense.
I got my second pdc not so long ago, and the light doesn't work with the trigger, but it has it's own button, (my first pdc doesn't have a light at all).

I shot the LED light control on instastories  [wink]
https://www.instagram.com/naradionline/

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1160
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2021, 02:42 PM »
Festool International posted some promotional videos in English of the new tools on YouTube today:














Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2021, 03:16 PM »
it's kinda funny, when I was shopping track saws, I nearly went Mafell, but went with Festool, in part because of the riving knife.  Now it looks like Festool is saying Mafell was right, so in some ways, the new saws are an advertisement for Mafell.

I've debated buying a newer TS55 and switching parts over to make one metric, but just see it as a waste just to solve the tilt lock issues.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2021, 05:17 PM »
Hmmm, looks like I will be keeping my older model saws. I don't have kickback problems. But the riving knife has done it's job helping prevent the kerf closing up so that I could keep cutting ( ripping solid wood) many times.

On the other hand I like that feature on the drill. That would be a great wrist saver with hole saws.

Seth

Offline glass1

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2021, 05:35 PM »
I would think it’s the ts75 that needs updating.

Offline Imemiter

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2021, 06:52 PM »
Maybe the feature I'd most appreciate from Festool would be some new theme music for their videos.

Dada Da, DaDa Da!
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Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2021, 06:54 PM »
Hmmm, looks like I will be keeping my older model saws. I don't have kickback problems. But the riving knife has done it's job helping prevent the kerf closing up so that I could keep cutting ( ripping solid wood) many times.

On the other hand I like that feature on the drill. That would be a great wrist saver with hole saws.

Seth

Yeah, these news systems may work, but I like simple.  I get the desire to improve, and maybe the new system is better, but I I like passive things.

The drill as you say is nice. I'm guessing others will have such systems very soon, if they don't all ready.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2021, 07:20 PM »
Hmmm, looks like I will be keeping my older model saws. I don't have kickback problems. But the riving knife has done it's job helping prevent the kerf closing up so that I could keep cutting ( ripping solid wood) many times.

On the other hand I like that feature on the drill. That would be a great wrist saver with hole saws.

Seth

Yeah, these news systems may work, but I like simple.  I get the desire to improve, and maybe the new system is better, but I I like passive things.

The drill as you say is nice. I'm guessing others will have such systems very soon, if they don't all ready.

Trouble with the new is that it only does part of the riving knife job.

I know that Milwaukee has a torque clutch on their big drills.

Seth

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2021, 08:34 PM »

Trouble with the new is that it only does part of the riving knife job.


Next revision in a 10 years, physical returns to go with electronic.


Offline mino

  • Posts: 222
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2021, 08:40 PM »
it's kinda funny, when I was shopping track saws, I nearly went Mafell, but went with Festool, in part because of the riving knife.  Now it looks like Festool is saying Mafell was right, so in some ways, the new saws are an advertisement for Mafell.

I've debated buying a newer TS55 and switching parts over to make one metric, but just see it as a waste just to solve the tilt lock issues.
It is not about "better or worse". Both approaches have their pros and cons.

What I find interesting is that only the TSC will get the electronic anti-kickback while the corded TS 55 will keep the riving knife. I would have expected the opposite - the TSC is the one more likely to be used free-handed.

I guess the "problem" was that "cool" youtube reviewers were dissing Festool for the riving knife as if it was something negative. Especially the US guys where safety is an after-thought for a big part of the market.

Festool likely felt they needed to react, and so they did. But it does not mean a riving knife is the "worse option". The same way Beta was not the worse option to VHS...

I would like it both ways-having an option to swap either a riving knife or the sensor. But I guess this is not possible mechanically so Festool had to choose which mechanism to install.

Will see how it turns. The big feature are really the thinner blades and those can be retrofitted to older saws. One only needs to lap the riving knife a bit for that to make it fit the reduced cut width.
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
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Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2021, 09:35 PM »
Guess I thought the TS55 got it to, not sure now.

I wouldn't say safety is ignored in the US at all.  The reason we don't have a lot of tools here is they won't pass a safety review.  Europe and N.A. view safety on some tools very different (see table saws).  Really this is a lot of stuff, what folk over there find safe in things is terrifying here, and I'm sure the opposite is true.

With a saw like the TS 55 it's more that track saws are a new thing, and even with them being around now for about 20 years, most have never seen them, so a riving knife on a circular saw is just a bit odd.  But on a table saw, completely normal.


Offline mino

  • Posts: 222
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2021, 05:22 AM »
Guess I thought the TS55 got it to, not sure now.

I wouldn't say safety is ignored in the US at all.
I did not mean ignore. Just that the US market seems not so obsessed with safety. For example I have never seen (the insanity of) radial arm saws widely used in Europe. Heck, I have never seen one even on a picture before roaming FOG.

A plunge saw is already infinitely safer than a circular saw to begin with. So many (maybe up to a half potential customers ?) see a riving knife as "just another nuisance". They would probably see the anti-kickback sensor the same, just be less bothered by it.

In Europe this part of the market is much smaller as the percentage of "hobby" or "carpenter contractor" users of tools like a plunge saw is much smaller. We do no have all that many wooden houses over here. So the customer demographic is more skewed to the furniture maker professionals which are likely to prefer a riving knife or at least not be bothered by it.

Maffel tested the waters, was well received by the market. So Festool followed. I do not believe Festool would go the sensor way if that was not so. The riving knife on my TSC is so well engineered, I only noticed it had one when tried a thinner (1.5mm) blade and it complained a bit. :)
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
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Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2021, 08:49 AM »
Amateur performance TPC 18/4

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Brian Livingstone

  • Posts: 199
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2021, 09:32 AM »

Does anyone know when the new TS55 may be available in NA, specifically Canada ?  I bought a new TS55 two days ago.  The saw is obviously a joy to use, and can easily handle the work I use it for (cabinetry). 

Thank you.

Brian
Kapex, TS75, MFT, OF1010, OF2200, DTS400 REQ, Parallel guide rails, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900, 3000 guide rail, Domino 500, CT36, CT Midi, , RS2E, RO150, Boom Arm, Crown stops, 6 drawer Sortainer, Carvex, Syslite II, Festool safety glasses must start to wear.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 802
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2021, 09:43 AM »
Hmmm, looks like I will be keeping my older model saws. I don't have kickback problems. But the riving knife has done it's job helping prevent the kerf closing up so that I could keep cutting ( ripping solid wood) many times.

On the other hand I like that feature on the drill. That would be a great wrist saver with hole saws.

Seth

Same for me. No riving knife = no buy, sensor or no sensor.

Online Cheese

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2021, 10:12 AM »
it's kinda funny, when I was shopping track saws, I nearly went Mafell, but went with Festool, in part because of the riving knife.  Now it looks like Festool is saying Mafell was right, so in some ways, the new saws are an advertisement for Mafell.

I've debated buying a newer TS55 and switching parts over to make one metric, but just see it as a waste just to solve the tilt lock issues.

Just purchase the Mafell and you can dispense with switching out parts to make it metric.  [smile]

I do like the thinner kerf blades for use on the Mafell, I just need to measure the kerf width versus the plate width to see how well they'll work with the splinter strip.

Also Interesting that Festool brought back the aluminum blade to the US. I now wonder why they originally took it off of the US market...maybe a couple of nervous and very vocal lawyers jumping the gun?

Also from the US website:

Can the TS 55 R and TSC 55 guide wedge be retrofitted so that the new saw blades (1.8 mm cutting width) can be used?

That is not possible for approval-related reasons.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 11:07 AM by Cheese »

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2021, 10:19 AM »
What I'm really curious about is what users transferring from the "old" TS/TSC to the new saws will think about the thinner blades and potential deflection issues, already known & voiced by some of the Mafell/Bosch users.

Otherwise, my TSC 55 is in great shape and working fantastic for me - no need to change.

But I might get the TPC for comparison's sake.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2021, 10:47 AM »

I've debated buying a newer TS55 and switching parts over to make one metric, but just see it as a waste just to solve the tilt lock issues.

Just purchase the Mafell and you can dispense with switching out parts to make it metric.  [smile]


I regret going festool on the saw a good bit, but now I have it.  When/if it gets replaced some day, it will be the mafell.  I basically look elsewhere for stuff where the "americafication" of tools comes in.  So things like sanders are fine, but routers are the issue, as there isn't much to go to.  The other reason for the TS was getting the festool rails, for the LR32 stuff, but now I have a DDF40, so that no longer matters.  Of course Festool has 3meter rails, so that is a bonus there.  So either way, I'd still probably se the festool rails.

Online Cheese

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2021, 11:01 AM »
Ya, the funny thing is I've had several kickbacks with the TS 55 & TSC 55 while being used on rails. Nothing severe, but definitely attention getters.  [smile]

I've yet to have a kickback with the Mafell. Was it because of the previous TS kickbacks that I became more careful when using the Mafell? Possibly.

When I first used the TS 55 maybe I was just more used to using a traditional circular saw and was using the TS in that manner? Probably.

On another note, this is from the Festool USA website.

https://www.festoolusa.com/campaigns/landing-page/circular-saw-blades#Performancefeatures



Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 904
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2021, 11:15 AM »
I've been happy with the TS55 for its intended purpose, mainly cabinetry. I was considering a TSC 55 and not sure if I should get the 2.2mm current gen when it inevitably gets discontinued and goes on sale. I do like the riving knife.
Instagram @matts.garage

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2021, 11:18 AM »
tooth count changes to blades.  Will the blades cost less because of the reduction of 6 teeth  [tongue]

I'm kind surprised that if they aren't interchangeable, that they didn't change the arbor size or something like that.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 845
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2021, 11:29 AM »
Seems like it’s closing in for me to get a TS 55 F later this spring.
Thanks for the chart Cheese! - Now a TS 55 and my HKC can share blades - I suspected that they would, reading about the latest revision of the TS

Kinda strange that the TSC was the only receiving the sensor.
Any idea if this was to keep the compatibility towards the CMS module?
I’d like to think so... cause you exchange the riving knife when putting the TS 55 upside down into the module.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
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Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2021, 11:45 AM »
Well, CMS is dead, so I doubt that was a factor.

Do the TS and TSC use the same motor?  I wonder if that came into play for the controls.

Online Cheese

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2021, 11:49 AM »
Deformed...I tried to check out the prices of the new blades but they're not yet listed on Festool website, neither is the new saw.  [sad]

Dyna...if you like the riving knife, nothing preventing you from purchasing the older TSC when or if it goes on sale and then grinding the knife to the proper thickness. For me I've always cursed the riving knife when changing blades, it's always in the way. Consequently blade changes on the Festool saws were minimal for me and that also included the frequency of blade cleaning. The first thing I noticed with the Mafell was how quick blade changes were without the riving knife.  [smile]

However, I'm not so sure the old TSC saws will be closed out at fire sale pricing with this Covid thing. All tools are in short supply and slashing pricing is probably not in the immediate future unfortunately. [sad]

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2021, 01:06 PM »
Well, CMS is dead, so I doubt that was a factor.

Do the TS and TSC use the same motor?  I wonder if that came into play for the controls.

No, the TSC 55 has an EC-TEC brushless motor. TS 55 has a motor with brushes.

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2021, 01:34 PM »
Well, CMS is dead, so I doubt that was a factor.

Do the TS and TSC use the same motor?  I wonder if that came into play for the controls.

No, the TSC 55 has an EC-TEC brushless motor. TS 55 has a motor with brushes.

Which may be where the issue is, they might not be able to do the new system on a brushed motor, and redoing the TS55 to brushless motor was too much work for this minor revision.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 802
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2021, 02:29 PM »
Ya, the funny thing is I've had several kickbacks with the TS 55 & TSC 55 while being used on rails. Nothing severe, but definitely attention getters.  [smile]

I've yet to have a kickback with the Mafell. Was it because of the previous TS kickbacks that I became more careful when using the Mafell? Possibly.

When I first used the TS 55 maybe I was just more used to using a traditional circular saw and was using the TS in that manner? Probably.

On another note, this is from the Festool USA website.

https://www.festoolusa.com/campaigns/landing-page/circular-saw-blades#Performancefeatures


(Attachment Link)

The 496306 is wrongly named "TF48" in that table. The 496306 is TF52.

Offline Otakar Svojše

  • Posts: 52
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #75 on: February 16, 2021, 03:46 PM »
Well, CMS is dead, so I doubt that was a factor.

Do the TS and TSC use the same motor?  I wonder if that came into play for the controls.

No, the TSC 55 has an EC-TEC brushless motor. TS 55 has a motor with brushes.

Which may be where the issue is, they might not be able to do the new system on a brushed motor, and redoing the TS55 to brushless motor was too much work for this minor revision.

Yes exactly. But in the future, every new machine was supposed to be with a brushless motor. We'll see ... :-)

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 845
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2021, 04:48 PM »
Well, CMS is dead, so I doubt that was a factor.

Do the TS and TSC use the same motor?  I wonder if that came into play for the controls.

I don’t think Festool would ignore that there’s a lot of CMS modules in use out there, those who have a module for their existing TS 55 I’m sure would be happy that their new one would be usable, not rendering the CMS useless. CMS are not forbidden to use, they were stopped by new regulations. Used correctly, they are as safe as a new portable table saw, if hooked correctly to a NVR switch provided with the CMS tables. Keeping compatibility is important to Festool. It even shows on the new drill. I’m sure this falls very good in favour of pro customer brand loyalty.
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Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 1
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2021, 05:07 PM »
Hello all,

New user, new Festool owner, and in the market for a track saw. I've been monitoring this thread since I'm looking at the TSC 55 and deciding between it and the newly announced TSC 55 K. Interestingly, the TSC 55 K kits were on the Festool US site yesterday and now they're gone. Seems the page may have been put up prematurely, at least for the US market.

TSC 55 KEBI-F-Plus-FS, 577008

https://www.festoolusa.com/products/sawing/track-saws/577008---tsc-55-kebi-plus-f-fs-us

Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 17
Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2021, 06:39 PM »
I've been happy with the TS55 for its intended purpose, mainly cabinetry. I was considering a TSC 55 and not sure if I should get the 2.2mm current gen when it inevitably gets discontinued and goes on sale. I do like the riving knife.

I sold my 2016 TS55 REBQ and picked up a massively discounted TS55 REBQ-Plus-FS two weeks ago when I saw the price drop down to €499.  €50 to change, all new including the warranty.  Happy days.  That price has gone up by €100 here since the new model was released, and they're sold out.

Then I saw a few TSC 55 REBI-Plus-SCA up for just €599 the next day, so I jumped on that right away.  Airstream charger, 2 x 5.2Ah ASI batteries etc.  What a great deal.  The price today is back up to €849 and only one in stock.

The point is, unless there's an excess of stock sitting around somewhere, I wouldn't count on much clearance discounting going on.  Both the saws I've picked up this month were manufactured in the tail end of last year, November/December.  There doesn't appear to be a lot of inventory sitting around over here and from everything I've experienced trying to find some specific tools over the past 6 months, I think it's the same everywhere.

So if you want a TSC with the riving knife, I'd find one now or accept that you might not be able to get a new one for much longer, unless something moves in the supply/distribution chain. 
TSC 55 REBI Plus SCA, TS 55 REBQ, DF 500 + stuff,  DF 700+ stuff, TXS 2.6Li, T18+3, PDC 18/4, RO 150 FEQ, CTL-SYS, CTL MIDI & MIDI I, MFT/3 + stuff.  Probably more green stuff I'm forgetting about.

Online Cheese

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2021, 11:50 AM »
There was some discussion on this thread about a mechanical riving knife vs an electronic riving knife, here's Mafell's response:

"These Mafell plunge cut saws essentially have an electronic riving knife—an auto-stop feature to protect the user when jammed.  Mafell wanted this feature to make plunge cuts easier, and they received special approval from their government to do so.  Most users agree this is an advantage over other track saws, some of which have had recall issues with their riving knife in the past."

Offline Coen

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2021, 11:54 AM »
Bunch of PR smoke. They have NO riving knife.

Electronics or not; like was said before; an absent riving knife does not keep the kerf from closing.

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2021, 11:57 PM »
Please see Spare Parts / CMS discussion here --------------> https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/spare-parts-cms-discussion/

Seth

Offline Coen

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2021, 11:27 AM »
I just saw the TS 55 F still has a riving knife.  [big grin]

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2021, 11:39 AM »
There was some discussion on this thread about a mechanical riving knife vs an electronic riving knife, here's Mafell's response:

"These Mafell plunge cut saws essentially have an electronic riving knife—an auto-stop feature to protect the user when jammed.  Mafell wanted this feature to make plunge cuts easier, and they received special approval from their government to do so.  Most users agree this is an advantage over other track saws, some of which have had recall issues with their riving knife in the past."

Did they really say government? As in government of the Federal Republic of Germany? Or did they mean governing/overseeing body in terms of trade/industry like "Employers' Liability Insurance Association" / DGUV?

That would be a huge difference, and the first one actually doesn't sound plausible to me.


Scratch that, my mistake. Ultimately the guidelines and rules set out by those governing bodies are indeed approved by a body of the German government.

Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 11:48 AM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

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Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2021, 12:02 PM »
German Government or the EU?  Wouldn't anything sold there have to follow rules for the whole EU, not just one country?  Like a "council of power tools and appendage protection" located in Brussels?

Who decides what tools need over there? Who defines what a riving knife is?

I assume folks smarter than any of us have thought this through.  But of course "assume"...

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2021, 03:50 PM »
It's rather complicated to explain.

Almost all commercially working tradesman and workers/employees in Germany are insured, I say almost because there are exceptions - I won't go into those.

No matter what trade, they all have a branch of insurance, there are 9 of them. Additionally for the workers/employees not in a trade but other fields, there are 24 accident insurance companies. All of them are statutory. All of them together are known as: German Statutory accident insurance (DGUV).

They, by law, are entitled to make rules on everything that you would know as OSHA standards. In Germany, the part of accident prevention, is called UVV (Unfallverhütungsvorschriften = Accident Prevention Rules).

DGUV - in the end - is overseen by the German Federal Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs.

Now getting to the riving knife.

If you look into the DGUV rules for carpenters: https://www.bgbau.de/fileadmin/Medien-Objekte/Medien/DGUV-Regeln/109-606.pdf

(Sorry, I don't have a link to an english language version of this document.)

It says which type of saws need a riving knife. In case of handheld circular saws, it says that it needs to have one, with the exception if the saw is compliant with exceptions laid out within DIN EN 60745-2-5 standard (Title: Hand-held motor-operated electric tools - Safety - Part 2-5: Particular requirements for circular saws (IEC 60745-2-5:2010, modified) )

I can't go deeper into this, because I don't have access to this document, in Germany the standards are not public domain, you need to buy these.

Now what this means is: If you are a carpenter with statutory insurance, you need to abide by this rules.

This does not mean a manufacturer is barred from building a tool that is in one point or more, non-compliant with these rules. As long as it is generally safe, abides by a thousand other rules, he can put it on the market and sell it.

The catch is, a tradesman with statutory insurance couldn't use it on the job/commercially. If he did and an inspector came and noticed it, he would order the tradesman not to use it.

So if you want to sell tools to commercial users bound to the rules of statutory insurance, you need to abide by their rules and build your tools accordingly.

So when Mafell says, they were authorized by the government. What they mean is that they got a change of code/standard approved for a circular saw that has another safety device in place instead of the classic riving knife. And the statutory insurance rule makers decided that was good, and referred to this chapter of the standard for eligible exceptions from the classic riving knife on hand held circular saws.

Since the government oversees those who make the rules and refer to standards that are to be adhered to, they were right in their wording.

I really hope this is understandable. I tried to be as specific as I could but I'm no expert on this either. I'm sure there are more details, more steps - but it sums up the end result just fine.

Let's leave the EU out of it, the cited standard was already harmonized (EN). That would only fill more pages.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline mino

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2021, 05:38 PM »
Let's leave the EU out of it, the cited standard was already harmonized (EN). That would only fill more pages. ...
I am sure the standard/requirement does not mention riving knife specifically.

It would mention something along "device preventing xyz type of a scenario". It would be then on the maker to prove (or declare, depends) that a device he uses meets that requirement to get the CE mark.

Then insurance company would have a more specific "simplified" interpretation which would allow a maker to SKIP this prove/declare part as it would state something along "an automatically extending riving knife is deemed to provid for this and that requirement".
This means Maffel would not need to have any standards changed. All they would need to have done is PROVE their solution fulfills the original requirement via other means.

IMO the wording on the advert is purposefully making this some type of "Maffel did something special". But that is normal marketing, nothing to be ashamed.
 [cool]
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 06:18 PM by mino »
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Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #87 on: February 18, 2021, 05:56 PM »
It's actually pretty precise on how the saw needs to be build if it doesn't have a riving knife. I was - by now - able to take a look at it - partly at least.

Main take away is, if no riving knife is present, saw needs to be designed in a way that if it jumps out of the cut either a pendulum cover swings over the blade rapidly, or in case of a plung saw, the action is smooth, fast and strong enough for the blade being retracted immediately. (Yeah, I know ...) And in this case, the German DIN got weakened through this harmonizing process.

CE is always a self-declaration of the manufacturer, that he has abided by all rules/standards applicable.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Svar

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #88 on: February 18, 2021, 06:19 PM »
What I find interesting is that only the TSC will get the electronic anti-kickback while the corded TS 55 will keep the riving knife. I would have expected the opposite - the TSC is the one more likely to be used free-handed.
I don't think you can use new TS with electronic anti-kickback free-hand. When not sitting on rail the lever will not be pressed up at the beginning of cut. Hence the saw will not start.  [sad] That lever could have been in the middle of the shoe in the arbor area.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 06:25 PM by Svar »

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #89 on: February 18, 2021, 06:26 PM »
From the Festool video it apparently seems that the electronic safety feature can be disabled temporarily by a button between the batteries. It will reset automatically when restart.
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Offline mino

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2021, 06:32 PM »
From the manual:
Quote
8.6 Working without the kickback stopfunction
WARNING
Risk of injury
If the kickback stop function is deactivated, the saw blade is not stopped when it unin­tentionally lifts.
► Only deactivate the kickback stop function if you are working without a rail and your workpiece is so uneven that the kickback stop function would unintentionally be trig­gered several times.
Deactivate the kickback stop function
► Press the kickback stop function OFF but­ton.
► Press and hold the on/off switch within ten seconds.
The kickback stop function remains deactivated until the on/off switch is next released.
The kickback stop function can only be de­activated before the saw is switched on.

Personally, do not like the trade-off and happy I got the pre-this version.

But we live in a Youtube world and with Maffel fanboys dissing Festool all over the place they simply hand to react. The same thing as with the thinner blades ref. deflection etc. etc.
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Offline Svar

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #91 on: February 18, 2021, 06:47 PM »
Thanks, mino. Got it! Seems complicated.
Physical riving knife was a major consideration for me when choosing a track saw. Unfortunately Festool seems to be ditching it too.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 06:58 PM by Svar »

Online DeformedTree

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #92 on: February 18, 2021, 06:47 PM »
Is their enough Mafell users for there to be a fanboy base?  [huh]

If that is the case, Mafell can return fire with thicker blades and dual riving knifes, plus lasers (always need lasers)  [big grin]

I think the question comes down to what is the goal.  Is it to make things safe when the bad thing has happened (stop the blade when the saw pops), is it to stop the bad thing from happening to start with (riving knife stopping binding).

In either case, the rules should define the goal, not the method.

My general concern is trying to work a problem using electronics/software verses a physical item.  Not to say that the electronics/software solution isn't a better way for some things.  Pretty sure they can't do a software update that will physically keep the saw cut from closing.

Offline Svar

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #93 on: February 18, 2021, 06:50 PM »
Ideally need both, electronic and physical riving knife, to cover all aspects of safe and burn/gouge free cutting.

Offline Coen

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #94 on: February 18, 2021, 06:51 PM »
But we live in a Youtube world and with Maffel fanboys dissing Festool all over the place they simply hand to react. The same thing as with the thinner blades ref. deflection etc. etc.

Does Youtube censor Maffel-critics then? It's hard to tell.... lots of Stalinization going on at Youtube... stuff disappeared...

Offline mino

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #95 on: February 18, 2021, 07:31 PM »
Does Youtube censor Maffel-critics then? It's hard to tell.... lots of Stalinization going on at Youtube... stuff disappeared...
Not yet. Will come.

But my point was that the way Youtube review concept works, it gives more voice to amateur and semi-amateur reviewers who go for the "bling" much more than professional magazines would go in past. This means the "general picure" a common customer - who may not have first-hand possibility to discuss with colleagues - gets is skewed more in the "raw performance" and "checkbox" type comparisons and less of the deep trade-offs polemic than in the past.

This affects less the professional market, naturally. But even there there are a LOT of potential customers in the contractor trade etc. which just go for "more power/more feature/more mana" stuff.

This forces the makers of even high end kit to mend its products more in that direction to stay relevant.

It is what it is.
Festool is actually extremely resistive to this, but they can stay only so much "different" before it starts affecting them in sales too much.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 07:33 PM by mino »
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Offline Coen

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #96 on: February 18, 2021, 08:09 PM »
Festool could do with some more explanation of their own cool features. Eg show that the Systainer inlay has dedicated space for the accessories in the inlay. If you ever thought a Festool inlay was bad... my oh my, you haven't seen Bosch inlays.  :o

Offline ben_r_

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #97 on: February 18, 2021, 11:59 PM »
Nice! I love it when the new "upgrades" or features are nothing I care about! Means I dont have to give them any more money!
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Offline _Ben_

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #98 on: February 19, 2021, 10:03 AM »
Regarding the TPC 18 drill, does anyone know whether the black housing surrounding the gearbox is plastic?

I've got access to all those standards and have had a quick look through. I was quite surprised to see that 62841-2-5-2014 "particular requirements for hand-held circular saws" doesn't actually mandate an anti-kickback device at all. The standard does go into some detail about the safe operation of such a saw which I recognise as the instructions that manufacturers include in their safety booklets.

Annex BB indicates that for saws without a riving knife, there are additional compliance check to ensure that the blade will retract or be fully guarded within 0.3s after the device has been dropped twice as follows:

a) oriented with the lower guard being at bottom, so that the saw will strike the concrete
floor with the base plate parallel to the floor;
b) oriented so that the saw will strike the concrete floor in a hand carrying position.

Noting that the version of the standard above indicates that this is carried out with a 2mm (!) thick steel disc fitted.

It's actually pretty precise on how the saw needs to be build if it doesn't have a riving knife. I was - by now - able to take a look at it - partly at least.

Main take away is, if no riving knife is present, saw needs to be designed in a way that if it jumps out of the cut either a pendulum cover swings over the blade rapidly, or in case of a plung saw, the action is smooth, fast and strong enough for the blade being retracted immediately. (Yeah, I know ...) And in this case, the German DIN got weakened through this harmonizing process.

CE is always a self-declaration of the manufacturer, that he has abided by all rules/standards applicable.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #99 on: February 19, 2021, 10:08 AM »
Do you by chance have access to outdated versions as well? Would be interesting to know what the original DIN said before it was harmonized and became an EN.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline _Ben_

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #100 on: February 19, 2021, 02:35 PM »
Hmm, my subscription does have some limitations but the earliest related standard I can see is EN 50144-2-5 (1996) "Particular requirements for circular saws and circular knives". At face value, the 1996 document doesn't look that much different from the 2014 one.

EN 50144-2-5 (1996) seems to have superseded IID 400.2E S2:1988 which I guess must be in the era of the original DIN?! Probably have a few copies kicking around in the Wendlingen museum :).

Do you by chance have access to outdated versions as well? Would be interesting to know what the original DIN said before it was harmonized and became an EN.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #101 on: February 19, 2021, 02:39 PM »
Thanks for looking into it Ben!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Otakar Svojše

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Re: New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2021, 12:49 PM »
TPC 18 - Angle attachment... ;-) 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 02:12 PM by Otakar Svojše »