Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tools & Accessories => Topic started by: six-point socket II on November 25, 2019, 01:22 PM

Title: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: six-point socket II on November 25, 2019, 01:22 PM
Hi!

Hope it hasn't been posted before.


English: https://www.festool.com/accessory/205034---bp-18-li-4,0-hpc-asi

German: https://www.festool.de/zubehoer/205034---bp-18-li-4,0-hpc-asi



Picture copyright by Festool!


[attach=1]


Apparently with 21700 cells.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: demographic on November 25, 2019, 06:28 PM
Seems that the 4Ah new battery is 20% lighter and holds about 23% less power than the 5.2 Ah battery.
Wow, however did they manage it... erm...hang on a bit.

To be fair, it is a lot more compact but for me a downsize in power terms isn't an upgrade.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: six-point socket II on November 25, 2019, 06:37 PM
Depends on your definition of power. ;)

If I'm not misinformed, the 21700 cells can deliver higher current more steadily/for a longer time without overheating/ drop of current, especially the new angle grinders, but also TSC and HKC would benefit from that.

But really all I wanted to do, was to spread the news.  [smile]


Kind regards,
Oliver
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: FestitaMakool on November 25, 2019, 06:52 PM
And not to forget; they make the tools more compact and lighter.  [big grin]
I’ve done so with Makita, running 2Ah on the brushless tools, some have run times with 2Ah batteries as those with brushed motors and 5Ah batteries.. and, they charge faster. All good [cool]
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: demographic on November 25, 2019, 08:21 PM
Depends on your definition of power. ;)

If I'm not misinformed, the 21700 cells can deliver higher current more steadily/for a longer time without overheating/ drop of current, especially the new angle grinders, but also TSC and HKC would benefit from that.

But really all I wanted to do, was to spread the news.  [smile]


Kind regards,
Oliver

I was going by Amp hours but yeah the saws would benefit from that. Ideally with as many Amp hours though.

I understand that a lot of people like the little batteries but I'm often on site quite a distance away from a charger so for me the ones with greater Amp hours are king.
Those working in a workshop can charge up more often without having to walk a distance to the site cabin

Perhaps if festool would sell 110 volt chargers in the UK i would have better choice of power to charge up on (most UK power is 240 volts but most building sites are 110 volts so the chargers Festool sells don't work on the site voltage and I have to charge up at the site cabin.

I could likely get a US spec charger but just not done it yet
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: yetihunter on November 25, 2019, 10:37 PM
NIIIICE.  Been running Bosch and Metabo 21700 battery packs; and, those two brands ain't got too much on Festool's cordless lineup; believe it or not.    I'm praying that a torque upgrade to the T/C 18 drills will eventually follow suit.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: SRSemenza on November 25, 2019, 11:01 PM
It packs a lot of power in the compact size battery. So it  is  an upgrade to the compact size.  Which are currently 3.0ah. It wasn't really that long ago that the compact was 1.5ah.

Seth
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: six-point socket II on November 26, 2019, 05:47 AM
Maybe we'll see 21700 cells in the larger battery packs as well. Who knows? :)

It's a logical step if they can make it work, size wise. But what do I know ...

Kind regards,
Oliver
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits on November 26, 2019, 03:39 PM
NIIIICE.  Been running Bosch and Metabo 21700 battery packs; and, those two brands ain't got too much on Festool's cordless lineup; believe it or not.    I'm praying that a torque upgrade to the T/C 18 drills will eventually follow suit.

Not very likely to see a torque upgrade since Festool has said that they are torque limited for wrist strain / ergonomic reasons.
The C18 is limited to 27/45Nm and the T18 is rated at a slightly higher 32/50Nm.

If they cripple the machine with RFC (reaction force control) they will be able to up them numbers but I personally prefer a drill that doesn't stop all the time. Bosch as well as Hikoki has RFC and I admit it works well for some applications but it is also a nuisance at times...

The DRC 18/4 is your best bet with 60NM torque. It comes with the extra handle so is "torque approved" but I almost never use the handle though it is nice for larger hole saws. I still have my DRC and it is plenty strong but I find the third gear a bit weak though useful for drilling. Grip is good and the LED is the best of the Festool drills and you can leave it on.

I use it with 3.1Ah batteries. Not too interested in the 4Ah batt's myself but eventually I might snag one or two. Those newer cells are better for sure though I don't really suffer with the 3.1Ah battery since I use them exclusively for the drills.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: dankerst on November 26, 2019, 08:47 PM


Very interesting. Learn something new every day.
Depends on your definition of power. ;)

If I'm not misinformed, the 21700 cells can deliver higher current more steadily/for a longer time without overheating/ drop of current, especially the new angle grinders, but also TSC and HKC would benefit from that.

But really all I wanted to do, was to spread the news.  [smile]


Kind regards,
Oliver

I was going by Amp hours but yeah the saws would benefit from that. Ideally with as many Amp hours though.

I understand that a lot of people like the little batteries but I'm often on site quite a distance away from a charger so for me the ones with greater Amp hours are king.
Those working in a workshop can charge up more often without having to walk a distance to the site cabin

Perhaps if festool would sell 110 volt chargers in the UK i would have better choice of power to charge up on (most UK power is 240 volts but most building sites are 110 volts so the chargers Festool sells don't work on the site voltage and I have to charge up at the site cabin.

I could likely get a US spec charger but just not done it yet


Very interesting. I never knew they varied the site voltage. Learned something new today.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: yetihunter on January 02, 2020, 06:44 AM
NIIIICE.  Been running Bosch and Metabo 21700 battery packs; and, those two brands ain't got too much on Festool's cordless lineup; believe it or not.    I'm praying that a torque upgrade to the T/C 18 drills will eventually follow suit.

Not very likely to see a torque upgrade since Festool has said that they are torque limited for wrist strain / ergonomic reasons.
The C18 is limited to 27/45Nm and the T18 is rated at a slightly higher 32/50Nm.

If they cripple the machine with RFC (reaction force control) they will be able to up them numbers but I personally prefer a drill that doesn't stop all the time. Bosch as well as Hikoki has RFC and I admit it works well for some applications but it is also a nuisance at times...

The DRC 18/4 is your best bet with 60NM torque. It comes with the extra handle so is "torque approved" but I almost never use the handle though it is nice for larger hole saws. I still have my DRC and it is plenty strong but I find the third gear a bit weak though useful for drilling. Grip is good and the LED is the best of the Festool drills and you can leave it on.

I use it with 3.1Ah batteries. Not too interested in the 4Ah batt's myself but eventually I might snag one or two. Those newer cells are better for sure though I don't really suffer with the 3.1Ah battery since I use them exclusively for the drills.

I’m still gutted about selling my PDC, but it’s torque rating puts it in the class of just about everyone else’s compact/light duty drills these days.   I really don’t buy that business about “more torque, more risk of injury”.  Just the opposite. This past year, I’ve been mostly using drills rated over 110 N.m and without issue.  Meanwhile, my lower torque drills are keen to fight my wrist before they reach the clutch setting.
Nothing remotely feels like an extension of my hand like a Festool, but their age is showing. 
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: mrB on January 03, 2020, 07:22 AM
Just a note to say that the festool drills have notably more torque when using the larger battery packs. Even the old 4.2ah packs provide more power than the compact 3.1 packs. I’ve had all versions of the 18v festool batteries and always found this the case. .
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: Gregor on January 03, 2020, 04:29 PM
A simple accelerometer (should be around $1 BOM increase) would reliably keep drills from twisting wrists.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: Magpal on April 24, 2020, 06:30 PM
Has anyone been using these batteries on the HKC 55? There is no material explicitly saying that it will not work on the HKC, but there is also no videos or images from Festool where they are using this battery on their circular saws.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: mrB on April 24, 2020, 07:08 PM
Used my HKC plenty with the compact 3.1ah batteries, so I’d put my money on it working with the new compact 4.0ah.

As for the TSC. . Who knows.

But honestly until maybe these 4.0ah batteries, who would use the compact batteries in the saws, other than ‘in as pinch’.  They’re gonna die quickly. 
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: SRSemenza on April 24, 2020, 10:58 PM
Used my HKC plenty with the compact 3.1ah batteries, so I’d put my money on it working with the new compact 4.0ah.

As for the TSC. . Who knows.

But honestly until maybe these 4.0ah batteries, who would use the compact batteries in the saws, other than ‘in as pinch’.  They’re gonna die quickly.

I am really hoping they work on the TSC (and everything for that matter). I like the compact batteries on the drills. I make very few saw cuts on site and it would be great to only have three batteries in my site kit instead of five.

Seth
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: Summerson on April 25, 2020, 01:32 PM
The 4.0 Ah batteries works great with the TSC 55, they seem to work with everything. I too are on my way to switch to only 4.0 Ah batteries. Then you’re good to go with two extra batteries and two chargers on site  [smile]
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: mrB on April 25, 2020, 05:49 PM
You both say  “with the TSC and everything else“  but surely the TSC is the un-said bench mark. If it works in the TSC then it WILL work with everything, no?

Other than the TSC not liking the 2.6ah & 3.1ah compact batteries, everything 18v has been compatible no?  The only other thing I found is that the original (large) 3.0ah batteries from my T18 drill 7 years ago would not power my BHC! But they apparently powered the TSC, or so reports said? Yet the BHC is fine with my compact 2.6ah & 3.1ah compact batteries. . Some gremlins exist in the 18v line, but I won’t complain as festool do pretty well with backwards compatibility on batteries!

And to that last point. I noticed on Nuts’n’ bolts here in the UK that there is more a compact 12v 4ah battery for sale! That’s a bad ass upgrade for anyone with an  ageing C12 that festool don’t sell anymore. Better than what was available at the time of sale.

https://www.powertool-supplies.co.uk/festool-router-of-1010-ebq-set-gb-240v.html#/product/58774
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: Magpal on April 26, 2020, 07:23 AM
Thanks! Sounds like the 4Ah pack is then good to go on the HKC!

Just a question regarding the TSC - will the TSC work with one 5.2Ah and one 4Ah battery or will you then get the reduced speed?
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: mrB on April 26, 2020, 08:47 AM
The ‘justification’ for the words “Li High Power” in the new 4.0ah compact batteries is that they have the same power output as the 5.2ah batteries. Previous compact batteries had slightly less.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: yetihunter on May 11, 2020, 12:21 AM
One row 21700 on new compact 4ah.  One row 18650 on previous compact battery packs.  Two rows of 18650 on all standard size battery packs.   There are factors like the logic boards on the batteries and the tools and how they communicate or what limitations are baked into the firmware.  Remove those factors and the single row 21700 packs could probably perform the same as the standard sized batteries on the drills, the impact, the rotary hammer and the supercut.  You should see a difference between the new compact batteries and a standard battery on the saws and the grinders.  However, it will not be as pronounced as the difference between the standard battery packs and the previous compact battery packs.  It’s all about voltage sag and heat/cooling.  A parallel pair of 18650’s is > than a single 21700.   So, truthfully, the new compact 4ah batteries sit between the old compacts and the standard sized batteries in muscle-power.  However, I would not be surprised if they perform the same with sharp blades, in short bursts, on thin stock. 

edit:

I want to note, it’s not all roses and sunshine with 21700 cells.  They’re bigger and they weigh more.   
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: threesixright on February 28, 2021, 05:08 AM
Anybody noticed this battery does NOT fit the Systainer (either attached or in the separate storage) ??  [scared]

I'm I missing something or did Festool made a major blunder? Really disappointed, how could they missed this?
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: mrB on February 28, 2021, 01:17 PM
Which Systainer are you referring to? I’ve found they fit in my HKC sys, but not attached to my drills or jigsaw that sit flat in sys1 boxes.
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: Frank-Jan on February 28, 2021, 02:16 PM
I just checked, they won't fit in the inlay for the bhc, but they do in the combo systainer for the TID/PDC, both attached to either drill, or on top of the charger  (which isn't weird, because the combo came with one of those batteries)
Title: Re: New 18V Battery Pack: HighPower Akkupack (Battery Pack) BP 18 Li 4,0 HPC-ASI
Post by: threesixright on February 28, 2021, 03:25 PM
@Frank-Jan @mrB

Aha, good point I only checked 2, since I assumed all inlays are same. They are not  [embarassed]

So it doesn't fit in my: BHC18, VECTURO, C18, CARVEX

It does fit  the TID18 (the spare is a bit wiggly).