Author Topic: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????  (Read 1513 times)

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Offline Intex

  • Posts: 128
My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« on: December 08, 2019, 03:52 PM »
I am working on the last stages of my 3" thick , 40" Diameter White Oak table top. Instead of my usual practice of sanding the high spots and glue joints to get a level surface, I thought I would go "OLD SCHOOL" and bought a new Veritas Low Angle long plane, to see if I could get a smooth surface without aggresive sanding afterwards.

Well I am either not good at this, or the wood is irregular, since I started to get a little tearout. I switched direction and tried to find the correct direction for each glued up board, but on two of them, whatever I tried, I got DEEP tearouts. I then tried to sand it with 40-60 grit paper on an ETS EC 125, but after 30 minutes, did notget much done. (Chinese Ebay sanding discs maybe- I ran out of Festool)

Should my nest step to get rid of the deep tearouts be aggressive sanding with a RO150. I hate to spend the $$$ for something I will not use that much (???), but Ive got way too much invested in this table so far. Other than a 42" wide Sanding Machine, would the RO150 be the best bet?

The top is over 150 lbs and I do not know a shop that has a sander that wide near me. My only consolation if the RO150 is the best bet, is that resale value is poretty good?

Thank you

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Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1496
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2019, 04:23 PM »
A Lie Nielsen 50 degree frog works better to eliminate tear out. It did on my maple work bench top.  Wicked sharp blades
is always a priority. 
307799-0

A Rotex is a wise investment, understand there's a brush break in period that most folks go through. 

The safe bet is a Rotex.

Best of luck.


Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1092
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 04:50 PM »
Can you just flip it over? Or are both sides messed up?

Ron

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 97
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2019, 05:25 PM »
I think you got hit by multiple things here...if you're not a regular hand tool user, jumping to a long plane like that with a wood species like white oak is pretty challenging. Not only is sharpening part of the equation, but a low-angle setup is prone to tearout with wood that has grain switching, etc. So aside from a huge amount of work using a higher angle plane to take off a lot of stock (assuming you have the experience...I sure don't!), going to a rotary sander to aggressively resurface the piece and then to ROS to finish sand may be your best recourse. Don't give up on trying to locate a large sander locally, however. I didn't realize a local wood supplier has one and I've taken advantage of it multiple times this year. AFAIK, that particular sander gets close to 60". For anything larger, they surface with a large Lucas Mill with a router sled on it.

I own the Rotex 150. I don't use it "a lot", but I do pull it out from time to time for problem solving and for certain tasks where it excels. I think sometimes it's an underestimated tool.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

SCM MiniMax S315WS, FS350, MM16, Camaster Stinger II SR-44 CNC

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1452
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2019, 06:50 PM »
"For anything larger, they surface with a large Lucas Mill with a router sled on it."

That may be your best option, you can make a sled and rails for one time use pretty easy, doesn't have to be a $800 Woodpeckers sled mill.

An open sided drum sander like the Performax 22-44 might work too if you know someone who has one and no access to a wide belt sander.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Intex

  • Posts: 128
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2019, 07:49 PM »
I can’t flip it over as I already drilled a large center hole to run a trammel, and then use it as a locating pin for mounting to base

I just ordered a RO150 and 80-320 grit Mirka abranet. I’ll try tomorrow to see if I find someone with a large drum sander

Offline VirTERM

  • Posts: 79
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2019, 09:40 PM »
What blade (angle) do you have in the Veritas plane? If you need to deal with a difficult grain, I would suggest to use either 38 or even 50. That would result in 50 or 62 respectively if you take the bed (12 degrees) into consideration. At 62 you should be able to plane virtually anything without tear out.

Offline Intex

  • Posts: 128
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2019, 09:50 PM »
It has a 37 degree bevel up cutting angle. That must be the problem

Offline VirTERM

  • Posts: 79
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2019, 10:12 PM »
37 in total? So 25 blade and 12 the bed? If yes, then definitely this is your problem. If your blade is 37, then you have total 49 which should still be manageable, however 50 (62) would make it easier.

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 873
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2019, 11:16 PM »
+1 on the router sled.  You'll never get it truly flat with a sander.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1496
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2019, 11:35 PM »
307817-0

A router sled is an excellent idea. 

307819-1

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1950
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2019, 11:57 PM »
Why did you get low angle plane? I surface all my panels with some genetic 45 degree $25 plane and it's good enough prep before quick finish sanding on all kinds of wood. Makeshift router sled is a good option too. Try that before throwing more money into high end machinery.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 12:00 AM by Svar »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2706
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2019, 12:15 AM »
A low-angle plane is fine - they are versatile tools and you can hone a high cutting bevel on the blade. If it is really tricky grain, consider a toothed blade to get it flat and then follow with smoothing. For particularly bad spots you can try a scraper - can tame the wildest of hardwoods. A sander would be my last choice and as others have said, very difficult to keep everything flat if trying to surface a large area.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 859
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2019, 08:19 AM »
Make sure if you are going to use the RO 150 you get the blue hard pad. It will help you getting the surface flat without introducing waves that the other pads will. I flatten large areas all the time with no issues. I also wouldn't use Abranet for this job. If you are stuck on using it get the pad protector so you don't destroy the loops on your pad. This setup works but not as good as using Festool Rubin 2 or Granat. The pad protector introduces another variable layer you don't really need.

Offline RJNeal

  • Posts: 413
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2019, 09:22 AM »
Since you are moving forward with the RO150, I suggest that you play / practice on a scrape piece of wood first. You’ll have to get use to this sander.
Have fun
Rick
Have you walked your saw today?

Offline jarbroen

  • Posts: 188
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2019, 04:11 PM »
RO150 works really well at quickly leveling in the situation you described.
Definitely follow RJNeal's advice and practice with it first.  It's a beast of a tool and takes a little bit to get accustomed to.
I had plenty of practice leveling maple hardwood floors where I'd laced in new boards with existing.

I also just used the RO150 for a bit of leveling on a dining table top glue up.  Starting with 40 grit and going to 80 and 120 in rotex mode.  Then I stepped back to 100 and used my new ETS EC 150/3 to smooth out.  I found that I needed to keep working up in grits via rotex - if I stopped at 80 I couldn't get the heavy marks out quickly with the 150 sander.
The Granat paper works really well on the Rotex.
The top is walnut and the Rotex step only took a few minutes for a 36"x72" top.  I didn't have much leveling since I used dominos in joining and planed the boards before glue up.


Offline Stunt

  • Posts: 17
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2019, 07:10 PM »
Where are you located?

All sound see if you can borrow or rent one from someone in your area.
If I was nearby I wouldn't mind. Then someday is call for a favor in return like helping lift some 17ft x 2ft x 2" Maple butcher block counters in place. (Already in, had to ask a busy for help as be owed me for using my DW735 one day.)

If you can make one a router sled sounds like a great option too.

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1137
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2019, 08:47 AM »
It has a 37 degree bevel up cutting angle. That must be the problem

No one has asked this.  Did you hone a micro-bevel on the iron?  A new plane straight out of the box, even a high quality plane like Veritas or L-N, needs to be honed.  The irons are usually beveled 25 degrees from the factory, but it is required to hone a micro bevel on the tip, right out of the box.  I keep mine at 30 degrees.  The beauty of a bevel up plane is you can hone whatever angle you like to increase versatility.  Buy a separate iron if you don't want to bother regrinding.  Whereas on a bevel down plane, no matter what angle you hone to, the angle will always be dictated by the frog angle.

That said, if you don't know how to sharpen,  it's a must skill-set for hand planing.  The trick is to hone often, before it gets dull.  I spent the better part of a winter training myself with various methods and gizmos, but I found the scary-sharp" method using a granite slab and sandpaper works best.  Once you learn how, it only takes 3 minutes to hone a razor sharp edge.

I hate to see someone spend a lot of money on a tool like a hand plane, get frustrated with it and only have to spend even more money on another tool method, rather than learn how to use it.  I've been guilty of this myself believe me.

I resharpened 4 or 5 times during the process of flattening my workbench.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3734
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2019, 12:25 PM »
I have a LN scraper plane with a fine toothed blade that i have used for way out surface planing. Once i get close, I either continue with a straight blade in the scraper plane; or I switch over to my RO 150 with granat. I start with 60 or 80 grit and go thru grits. I have worked on a table 37 x 76 hard maple that way.

I don't remember if I used granat or another paper for the 60 grit.

If you haven't used the RO 150 before, practice with it first. I had no trouble when I first used it, but many others have a lot of trouble using it. When i first used it, I had already run concrete trowel machines and terrazzo grinders so i knew the principles of handling the RO sander before i knew anything about it.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4454
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2019, 02:08 PM »
Tearout makes a hole in the surface.

The thing that is not obvious is that you have to sand around the hole in ever widening circles until the whole surface is brought down to the depth of the tearout hole, if you really want to make the surface flat.


Offline ChiknNutz

  • Posts: 84
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2019, 02:21 PM »
Or just live with it and fill the voids with something like epoxy...clear, colored to match or even a contrasting color.
-Chris
Rotex 150/5 FEQ, CT 36 E, ETS EC125/3, TS75, Domino XL

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1092
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2019, 02:34 PM »
I still say flip it over. Fill the hole with some white oak inlays like this and call it a day



Ron

Offline zapdafish

  • Posts: 550
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2019, 03:05 PM »

it's a workbench, after trying real hard to keep it pristine your gonna give up and then all the dings and digs and scratches wont matter, lol. and if your like me, your almost never gonna see the whole top again.  [big grin]
CT22, TS55, Kapex, RO150, Domino, RS 2 E

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1844
Re: My mistake forces me to buy RO150 ????
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2019, 03:59 PM »

it's a workbench, after trying real hard to keep it pristine your gonna give up and then all the dings and digs and scratches wont matter, lol. and if your like me, your almost never gonna see the whole top again.  [big grin]

He indicated it's a table top.  Jim's beautiful bench distracted you (and me, and probably a few more).   [smile]
-Raj