Hi All,

New to Festool and new to FOG, so hi!

Started out with a cheap tracksaw (non-festool) that happens to fit Festool rails so bought an FS1400 rail as the cheap saw only came with 700mm rails.

A web search for the best dust extractor/shop vac led me to the Festool Midi which was shortly followed by the obvious upgrade to the TS 55!

I then needed a longer track so have bought the FS1400 LR32 with the connector with a future aim of getting the LR32 system (I've bodged a DIY version with a Dewalt router for now...).

The DF500 Domino, and RO150 Rotex sander are now also on my wish list which got me thinking; what are the must-have Festool tools?

I've gone the DIY MFT route as I'm garage based so don't need to be portable but either way a decent workbench is pretty high on the list of essential tools. I'd say the TS55, rail and dust extractor, naturally as it's what I have, but also the DF500 and RO150.
Anything else to add to the list? Anyone disagree with my choices? I deliberately said "kit" instead of tools as I noticed Festool do Fan Merchandise too 

I have the usual tools (drills, sanders etc) from other brands but have now broken the mental cost/justification barrier to Festool ownership!

Cheers!

Welcome to the forum/Festool . There’s a gentleman on the classifieds with a list of tools for sale, not sure what, prices etc.

They also have a recon site which saves you about 25%

I’ve been doing over a year and overall love their stuff

Great site and generally very detailed answers.

Thanks for the welcoming replies 

I meant the post as more of a fun "what are the Festool must have's" rather than a "what tools do I need" if that makes sense?

Naturally a tool is made to do a job, and so the "must have's" will vary based on what people intend to use them for - I'm just being curious

The recon site is interesting but seems to be US specific, I'm in GB so no discounts for me 

If you do not have a router still, I would get the OF1010 - the new REBQ version which come out this summer.

Then, being a hobby user, get the ETS 125 sander with the angle attachment. You will find it very useful for edging (without a steady professional hand) and it is an excellent finish sander for sheet goods in its own right.

Their AGC 18 cordless grinder is also excellent.

It is variable speed and very-very smooth and quiet If one can give such a characteristic to a grinder. I use it as an ad-hoc disc sander for all kinds of purposes. It is my second most-used tool after a drill driver.

The last "must have" for me would be the CXS.
You will love it and it will be your most-used tool fast. It is not the most powerful by far, but is a joy to use.


A non-Festool stuff I would consider more important than any of these is to get the TSO GRS 16 PE and their PGS system to go along your FS/2 rails. Add the Makita rail connectors to that (and avoid Festool ones which are worse) and you are set.



EDIT:
I know you look for Domino and a Rotex. Excellent. But I would much rather get the TSO PGS system or the AGC 18 grinder WAY before splurging on a Domino or a Rotex.

If you can get all, great, but if not rather cover your bases - e.g. a general router, a general sander - before you splurge on the specialty tools.

I'll plug the CXS as well; it's a tool a lot of people write off at first glance as a wildly overpriced screwdriver, but pretty much everyone who owns one will list it as one of their favorite tools in their shop. It just strikes a perfect balance of weight/power/ergonomics.

Other highlights:

• You've already discovered the TS 55, but adding the TSO squares and parallel guides to it takes it to a whole other level, letting you make cuts with the precision and repeatability of a cabinet saw in a portable form factor.
• The OF 1010 and OF 1400 are fantastic routers. Which one will be better for you, personally, depends on what you intend to do with it: the 1400 is a better general-purpose router (more power, more accessories, much broader selection of bits), but the 1010 is the only one of the Festool routers that can use guide bushings with absolute precision, so it tends to be better for template work where accuracy is critical.
• All the Festool sanders are great, but for your first one, unless you're doing a lot of heavy material stripping, you should probably go with the ETS EC 125 (or ETSC, if you want cordless). It strikes a good balance between functionality and ergonomics. The Rotex sanders are fantastic for rapid material removal, but they are heavy.
• I absolutely love the Carvex jigsaw. It has so many little touches that make it a pleasure to use compared to any other jigsaw I've tried in the past: the interchangeable bases, the strobe light that lets you precisely track the cutting path, etc.
• The Domino is a life-changing tool if your projects can benefit from floating tenons, but it is a very specialized tool. If budget is a concern, delay this one until you're positive you'll have a sustained use for it: it's a very expensive paperweight for the purposes of a large number of typical hobby woodworking projects.
• This may seem like an odd callout, but for me the boom arm attachment for the CT vac was easily one of my favorite purchases. Not having to constantly worry about my hose and power cords catching on things was just a huge weight off my mind and made it easier to focus on the task at hand.

It might be because my first sander was a 6" Porter Cable, but I never understood 5" or 125mm. Either way, pick a size and stick with it. I'd buy combination grit packs from FestoolNirvana to see what you like working with (IMO FT abrasives are worth every penny). I think the Rotex 150 is a fantastic sander, I bought this + the CT Midi combo as my entry with no complaints. I can get darn fine results in rotex mode to finer grits no problem. I have the ETS EC 150/3 which is another leap in technology, but often think about trading for 150/5. The RO90 is another excellent tool which I believe sets them apart from other manufactures. How I justify these purchases is the amount of time sanding in the craft and comfort/results doing so. CXS is great. Starting out, you may want to try a compact router before jumping into larger more expensive 1/2" router - This will be my next purchase. The Makita cordless router is great if you have other tools and my preference for drills/drivers. The milwaukee router = better depth adjustment.

One thing worth mentioning or considering is the type of projects you'll be working on. In a renovation, the RO150/90 were invaluable.

Always interesting to read replies to a post like this. One man's meat is another man's poison as the saying goes. I'm a professional woodworker with 40 years on the tools. I have 4 pieces of Festool equipment (and very fine it is, too) - but I also have a lot of other equipment from numerous different manufacturers, which - for me, dramatically outperforms the comparable Festool offering. Don't allow yourself to get sucked and marketed into one-brand slavery, and don't deny yourself access to something great, just because it doesn't come in a grey and green box.

Yes, yes, of course. But which four Festool did you get???

OF2200, TS55, CTM26, CT-VA-20. And I totally forgot about the CTL-SYS - so that's 5, not 4 

Thanks! Great choices! The suspense was killin' me.
Vacuums were the gateway tool for me. A CTL-SYS in particular. My Fein Turbo kept me going for awhile, but I'm glad it broke down.

I tend to buy Festool for the more specialized items that you cant get from other brands. Domino, lr32, conturo, mfk, Festool sanders are the exception due to the dust collection but as others said a RO is a sander you buy because you need a RO otherwise you will enjoy the other sanders from festool more. Cordless tools such as multi tools, jigsaw, routers, drills, impacts, mitersaw,  etc. are another brand.  The domino was my first festool and is still my fav.  I also really really liked the lr32 system pre cnc. 

Quote from: woodbutcherbower on May 10, 2021, 02:33 PM

Always interesting to read replies to a post like this. One man's meat is another man's poison as the saying goes. I'm a professional woodworker with 40 years on the tools. I have 4 pieces of Festool equipment (and very fine it is, too) - but I also have a lot of other equipment from numerous different manufacturers, which - for me, dramatically outperforms the comparable Festool offering. Don't allow yourself to get sucked and marketed into one-brand slavery, and don't deny yourself access to something great, just because it doesn't come in a grey and green box.

The ones I'm interested in are the tools that you believe "dramatically outperform" Festool.
The most important term there though is "comparable", because nothing compares to a Domino.

Both versions of the Domino are stellar, and as you say, it’s a unique product. I don’t do the type of work which enables me to justify one, however. But since you asked the question;

Hilti SF6H 22v combi - the most robust, reliable combi imaginable. Open this thing up and you’ll find a gearbox which looks like it came out of a miniature Kenworth or Scania truck. I have two  — the original Gen 1 plus the newer Gen 2 brushless.

Hilti SID-22A 22v impact driver - see comments above.

Hilti TE-30AVR SDS - 12 years old, it’s been absolutely tortured and looks like junk, but it still works as well as the day I bought it.

Hilti DD-150 diamond core drill. Not really relevant since Festool don’t make such a tool. I’d also mention the fact that their service offering is world-class. If anything fails (which hardly ever happens) - a courier comes to site and collects it the same day, the local rep drops off a temporary replacement, they repair the tool and return it to a place of your choosing within three days. They continue to make and stock parts for tools for at least 10 years after the last one came off the line.

Mafell P1CC jigsaw - the only jigsaw I’ve ever found which consistently cuts scrolled curves in timber whose edges are totally square to the surface. I bought mine at a tool show after a rep demonstrated the machine cutting a perfect square-edged circle around a £2 coin in 40mm thick oak countertop.

Mirka Deros 5650CV - just works for me. I love the near-silent operation, the feather-light weight and several other aspects of it.

Makita RP1100 quarter-inch router - I do a lot of work involving hinge rebates on in-situ door frames. The OF1010’s  parallel fence sits at 90 degrees to the handle, so you can’t get it anywhere near the head of a door frame before the handle, power cable and extractor hose all hit it.

Hilti AG125 grinder- it has a hugely efficient dust control shroud on the cutter head which means that dustless cutting of slate, quartz, granite and tiles is possible.

Fein 350 Multimaster - the quietest, lowest-vibration and best-performing multi I’ve used. Downside is the Starlock Plus head admittedly - it’s proprietary so I’m locked into buying expensive Fein blades.

DeWalt DWS 780 mitre saw - I do a lot of heavy framing and construction work. The thing’s indestructible and built like a Sherman tank. Super accurate and fully adjustable for those times when it’s been in and out of the van a hundred times and has been knocked slightly out of square. Dust control is absolutely hopeless, but it’s almost always used outdoors so it’s not really an issue. The DE7023 saw stand is also stellar, and indispensable to me since my stock is always supplied in 4.8m or 5.4m lengths.

Makita LS0714 mitre saw - simply the best-built, most accurate small 2nd-fix saw I’ve ever found.

Paslode IM65A 16g Brad gas nailer - again, no Festool equivalent.

As I said in my first post - we all have different ways of working our tools and consequently have different priorities. My own personal choices have all evolved over four decades and everything works for me.

Kind regards.

Quote from: Crazyraceguy on May 10, 2021, 06:51 PM

Quote from: woodbutcherbower on May 10, 2021, 02:33 PM

Always interesting to read replies to a post like this. One man's meat is another man's poison as the saying goes. I'm a professional woodworker with 40 years on the tools. I have 4 pieces of Festool equipment (and very fine it is, too) - but I also have a lot of other equipment from numerous different manufacturers, which - for me, dramatically outperforms the comparable Festool offering. Don't allow yourself to get sucked and marketed into one-brand slavery, and don't deny yourself access to something great, just because it doesn't come in a grey and green box.

The ones I'm interested in are the tools that you believe "dramatically outperform" Festool.
The most important term there though is "comparable", because nothing compares to a Domino.

Both versions of the Domino are stellar, and as you say, it’s a unique product. I don’t do the type of work which enables me to justify one, however. But since you asked the question;

Hilti SF6H 22v combi - the most robust, reliable combi imaginable. Open this thing up and you’ll find a gearbox which looks like it came out of a miniature Kenworth or Scania truck. I have two  — the original Gen 1 plus the newer Gen 2 brushless.

Hilti SID-22A 22v impact driver - see comments above.

Hilti TE-30AVR SDS - 12 years old, it’s been absolutely tortured and looks like junk, but it still works as well as the day I bought it.

Hilti DD-150 diamond core drill. Not really relevant since Festool don’t make such a tool. I’d also mention the fact that their service offering is world-class. If anything fails (which hardly ever happens) - a courier comes to site and collects it the same day, the local rep drops off a temporary replacement, they repair the tool and return it to a place of your choosing within three days. They continue to make and stock parts for tools for at least 10 years after the last one came off the line.

Mafell P1CC jigsaw - the only jigsaw I’ve ever found which consistently cuts scrolled curves in timber whose edges are totally square to the surface. I bought mine at a tool show after a rep demonstrated the machine cutting a perfect square-edged circle around a £2 coin in 40mm thick oak countertop.

Mirka Deros 5650CV - just works for me. I love the near-silent operation, the feather-light weight and several other aspects of it.

Makita RP1100 quarter-inch router - I do a lot of work involving hinge rebates on in-situ door frames. The OF1010’s  parallel fence sits at 90 degrees to the handle, so you can’t get it anywhere near the head of a door frame before the handle, power cable and extractor hose all hit it.

Hilti AG125 grinder- it has a hugely efficient dust control shroud on the cutter head which means that dustless cutting of slate, quartz, granite and tiles is possible.

Fein 350 Multimaster - the quietest, lowest-vibration and best-performing multi I’ve used. Downside is the Starlock Plus head admittedly - it’s proprietary so I’m locked into buying expensive Fein blades.

DeWalt DWS 780 mitre saw - I do a lot of heavy framing and construction work. The thing’s indestructible and built like a Sherman tank. Super accurate and fully adjustable for those times when it’s been in and out of the van a hundred times and has been knocked slightly out of square. Dust control is absolutely hopeless, but it’s almost always used outdoors so it’s not really an issue. The DE7023 saw stand is also stellar, and indispensable to me since my stock is always supplied in 4.8m or 5.4m lengths.

Makita LS0714 mitre saw - simply the best-built, most accurate small 2nd-fix saw I’ve ever found.

Paslode IM65A 16g Brad gas nailer - again, no Festool equivalent.

As I said in my first post - we all have different ways of working our tools and consequently have different priorities. My own personal choices have all evolved over four decades and everything works for me.

Kind regards.

The Deros and P1CC are marvels indeed.

But 3/4 of the stuff you mention are construction tools which are actually not made by Festool/TTS anymore. Sure, one can abuse a Kapex as a framing saw, but it is not what it is made for.

TTS had the Protool brand a decade ago where they tried to go after the construction business with heavy tools (most OEM from smaller German companies) but it did not work so they folded it up.

The Festool focus us usability and finesse. So comparing e.g. a Kapex with the DWS780 is pointless. The only thing these have in common is both are mitre saws.
Same the Hilti SDS stuff (did Hilti not invent SDS or something?) and the installers handy mini-SDS Festool makes. Both make hammer drills, but for a completely different purpose so do not really compete with each other.


One note, you specifically not correct is the the Hilti AG125.

The Protool/Festool AGC 125 has dust collection accessories which were the unique in the mass market two decades ago and are still up there on the top while not "special" anymore. True, they do not fit (without a shim like I used) to the AGC18, but that is again a separate topic.

Not trying to "Defend" Festool.
But almost none of the tools you mention have a direct Festool counterpart. And that is likely not an accident - Festool has a policy where they do not introduce a new tool if the cannot be better than the top competition in some way. Take the Carvex, instead of improving the Trion to go after the P1CC they made an extremely flexible product which can do what P1CC cannot BUT cannot do many things P1CC can. Stepping sideways instead of making a clone of someones marvel.

I wonder what the tools made by the North American manufacturers, if Festool never existed, would be like today. Every industry needs innovators to set the bench mark for the rest. It seems that most manufacturers are quite satisfied with pumping out whatever they hope you will buy and make money. But innovators are never satisfied with the status quo. Most are quite interested in copying the innovations but have no desire to pay the costs to be innovators … R&D. Apple sets the bench mark in their field and Festool does it in theirs.

I do wish North American manufacturers would be smart enough to copy Festools idea for longer detachable cords but then again the North American manufacturers don't believe that is a deal breaker so they will save a few bucks and cut the cord.

Are the non Festool tools you buy good because maybe Festool has forced their manufacturers to make better tools?

Many still believe you need a table saw to build a set of cabinets but i can build a set of cabinets with a track saw and do it safely. Thanks Festool for the innovation …

3/4 of the stuff you mention are construction tools.

Really? The only product which I'd class as a genuine 'construction tool' is the diamond core drill. Everything else on that list has a direct Festool equivalent except the Paslode (which is a 16-gauge gas bradder, not a framing nailer) - it's used for final finishing in joinery work - attaching mouldings, cornices, architraves, baseboards, trims, pinning mitres, fixing wainscotting and similar. It's a woodworking tool. Two out of twelve is hardly 'three-quarters' - is it? Over here in the UK, our schoolkids on day #1, lesson #1 of 'how to do fractions' are taught that it's one-sixth.

Sure, one can abuse a Kapex as a framing saw, but it is not what it is made for. So comparing a Kapex with the DWS780 is pointless. The only thing these have in common is both are mitre saws.

What? A £1200 mitre saw which can't be used to cut wood unless it's working within a certain restricted set of arbitrary limits? And how is cutting certain types and certain sizes of timber 'abusing' the tool? A huge amount of my work is ultra-high-end restoration and heritage work for major UK organisations such as the National Trust and English Heritage where finish quality is critical - irrespective of whether I'm cutting a replacement green oak kingpost on a 300-year-old roof, or using a 96-tooth blade to cut a compound mitre on a curving stair handrail on a 200-year old mahogany staircase worth ££££££. My (obviously misguided) concept of a 12" mitre saw is one which can do anything from crosscutting railway ties through to delicately dissecting super-fine mouldings, with total accuracy and virtually 100% mechanical reliability - which the DWS780 does, and does exceptionally well. My current machine has close to 7,000 hours on the clock and all I've ever replaced is motor brushes and the zero clearance insert. You'll find that real-world carpenters/joiners (y'know - guys like me who do this for a living, 8-10 hours every day, 50 weeks of the year) need a skilled, nimble-footed, all-round-talented football player, but one who is also strong, muscular and not afraid of some rough and tumble. Not a complainer ballet dancer who buckles at the first sign of anything remotely strenuous.

The Festool focus is usability and finesse.

I agree. My OF2200 is the best half-inch router in the world, by a country mile. My TS55 isn't without its faults, but it's delivered tens of thousands of quality cuts for me now for almost 10 years. My CTM26/CT-VA-20 are stellar. My CTL-SYS is the best thing out there for small trim work involving just a few cuts. Even my SYS-Powerhub is enormously useful and a hundred times better than a junky cable reel. But usability and finesse aren't proprietary to Festool. There's no magic unicorn dust.

Same the Hilti SDS stuff and the installers handy mini-SDS Festool makes. Both make hammer drills, but for a completely different purpose so do not really compete with each other.

An SDS is used to drill holes and fix stuff to walls. So is a hammer drill. Could you explain exactly what you mean by 'a completely different purpose?'

One note, you specifically not correct is the the Hilti AG125. The Protool/Festool AGC 125 has dust collection accessories.

No it doesn't. If it did, I'd have seriously considered it, as I would really love to have gone cordless.

Not trying to "Defend" Festool.

Yes you are. You absolutely are - and the multitude of exaggerations and falsehoods in your reply is ample testament to that. I love my Festool equipment - really I do. I'm not criticizing the company or its products in any conceivable way. Why should I? It's great equipment and I'm a loyal customer of 10 years' standing. But I'm also open-minded, non-biased, and experienced enough to realise that there's other great equipment out there which comes in boxes coloured red, blue, orange, yellow, and purple.

Almost none of the tools you mention have a direct Festool counterpart.

Yes they do. Every single one, apart from the two mentioned in my opening paragraph. If I wasn't already losing the will to live, I'd list them all. Maybe someone else on here with a better knowledge of the whole product range will kindly make the list on my behalf. Why are you saying these things when they're completely untrue?

Festool has a policy where they do not introduce a new tool if the cannot be better than the top competition in some way.

Wow. No disrespect intended whatsoever - but it strikes me that unless you work on their research team and have first-hand experience of their marketing strategy and product development focus, I've inadvertently stumbled upon the ultimate Festool evangelist, completely locked in and 100% blinkered to the remotest possibility that any other manufacturer is fit to lick the soles of Festool's shoes, or worship at the hallowed grey-and-green altar of perfection. You exaggerate and use either half-truths or blatant lies to justify whatever strange agenda you have.

This is a public forum and you're entitled to your opinion of course - but me? All I did was to answer a fellow forum member's question about my other equipment, and in doing so, I politely explained why these items suited me in the context of the work I do. I didn't preach, I didn't lie, I didn't exaggerate, I didn't try to justify how I spend the money I work hard to earn, my reply was completely factual, unbiased and objective.

Big mistake, obviously.

Oh - and to the other poster who said that Fein's Starlock Plus isn't proprietary - it is. It's a totally unique quick-release tool head shape and locking mechanism to standard Starlock (which is probably what you were thinking of) which is out of patent and is thus reproducible by every manufacturer. Don't believe me? Google 'Starlock Plus blades' and see how many aftermarket ones you can find .........

i'm with you on everything else but you can use non plus blades is what I meant you are not locked in to Fein, unless you must have Plus
also i thought Bosh makes Starlock plus as well. is this not the same https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/boschtools-ocs/corded-oscillating-multi-tools-gop40-30c-143750-p/

Quote

Oh - and to the other poster who said that Fein's Starlock Plus isn't proprietary - it is. It's a totally unique quick-release tool head shape and locking mechanism to standard Starlock (which is probably what you were thinking of) which is out of patent and is thus reproducible by every manufacturer. Don't believe me? Google 'Starlock Plus blades' and see how many aftermarket ones you can find .........

That's the first reference I've ever seen to anyone else making a Starlock Plus machine - thankyou for correcting me. I've tried to find it via Google, but it seems to be only available in North America as a 120-volt machine. And trust me - I've tried standard Starlocks on the Fein (at a quarter of the price) but they have a completely different lock pattern and don't fit at all. I'll definitely see if I can locate some of these Bosch blades though. Thanks for the heads-up.

...

I think you take it too seriously.

When I say what is the -intent/goal/objective- it does not necessarily mean they have achieved it. Nor that I condone it universally. I do when it results in a product I like, of course.

Sometimes they add a feature which does not see much use, and the tool ends up good in a very narrow niche while being overpriced for the common use case.
Sometimes they hit jackpot and introduce a feature which transforms the market. Hit/Miss basically.

From what I observe, this is their business model the last two decades or so. They have some "filler" tools, but even there they always try to put in some capability or feature that can justify the premium prices they want to charge.

I do not want a turf war here, so will try to articulate on one point - the SDS drills - where Hilti is the top dog bare none so is a good example.

Same the Hilti SDS stuff and the installers handy mini-SDS Festool makes. Both make hammer drills, but for a completely different purpose so do not really compete with each other.

An SDS is used to drill holes and fix stuff to walls. So is a hammer drill. Could you explain exactly what you mean by 'a completely different purpose?'

BHC purpose:
Making smallish - usually 4-6 mm, at times 8mm - holes into concrete for installing cabinets etc.
Key features: Small, Light, suspended handle /not common in this class/
Limitation: low power (adequate for the purpose but nothing more)

There is only ONE semi-equivalent Hilti tool - TE 2-A22 - all other Hilti hammers are way bigger class and in no way compare to the BHC.
Well, these are still not comparable. The Hilti is heavier, weaker, way longer (matters for small/short bits) and has no suspension.

The Hilti is a tool for the construction worker or installer who makes 100s of holes a day.
The Festool is a tool for the cabinet installer who makes 10 holes a day, usually less. It can probably survive the construction crew handling. But it is not meant for that. Hilti is meant for that use and does an excellent job there while for the installer it would seem "rough" compare to the BHC.

I have a bigger Bosch 3J hammer. And I still bought the BHC because most of the time I do not need a powerful and HEAVY hammer but I still need something stronger than a percussion.

EDIT: Checked for fun, and the TE2-A22 is actually more expensive than the BHC over here. That is fine with me. Mechanically I would expect it to be a stronger, more survivable tool.

One note, you specifically not correct is the the Hilti AG125. The Protool/Festool AG 125 has dust collection accessories.

No it doesn't. If it did, I'd have seriously considered it, as I would really love to have gone cordless.

I have and use all three accessories for the AG 125 with my AGC 18 using a shim (reference below). They are kinda overpriced, but they do work well. Unfortunately they are kinda hard to get as these are a carry-over from the Protool  times and apparently do not sell that well.

I have no Hilti attachment to compare in practice so can only state that there is almost no micro-dust when using either the DCC-AG or DCG-AG. The DCG-AG FH is the odd one and id kinda compromise so dust collection there is not optimal but still works OK for where the DCG-AG cannot be used.
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