Author Topic: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions  (Read 108749 times)

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Offline Matthew Schenker

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MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« on: January 11, 2008, 11:40 AM »
Everyone,
As many of you know, Festool will soon be introducing a new version of the Multi-Function Table (MFT).  It is called the "MFT3."

As Festool prepares to release the MFT3, they are interested in gathering questions from members of this forum.  Festool will use your responses to be proactive in addressing customers' interests and concerns.

So please jump in and tell Festool what you want to know about the MFT3!

Thanks,
Matthew
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 11:41 AM by Matthew Schenker »
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Offline VictorL

  • Posts: 586
Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2008, 11:44 AM »
Everything.
Size, compatibility, features, accessories, standard/expanded configuration, prices, availability.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 11:46 AM »
Everyone,
As many of you know, Festool will soon be introducing a new version of the Multi-Function Table (MFT).  It is called the "MFT3."

As Festool prepares to release the MFT3, they are interested in gathering questions from members of this forum.  Festool will use your responses to be proactive in addressing customers' interests and concerns.

So please jump in and tell Festool what you want to know about the MFT3!

Thanks,
Matthew

  Sure, but they have to give us some idea of what the new MFT3 will be like.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline jonny round boy

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2008, 11:58 AM »
Other than what VictorL said (everything!), it's almost impossible for us to answer that without knowing something about the product beforehand.

It's like me asking a client if they have any questions regarding the design of their new kitchen, before I've shown them the design!!!

Could you ask them for some up-front information so we have something to base our questions on?
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Dan Clark

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2008, 12:06 PM »
One of the things that drives me nuts about product introductions of new products that replace old products is that the vendors give a laundry list of the "great features" of the new product.   Many times they will use new terms to explain the exact same feature that existed on the old version.  In the end, the customer is left scratching their head wondering, "What the heck is new and enhanced on the new product?!?  Why should I buy it?"

What I want to know is:

1) What do the new and old MFTs have in common?  I.e., what has NOT changed?

2) Which OLD accessories will work on the new MFT?

3) Which OLD accessories will NOT work on the new MFT?  (This is typically a tough one that marketing people don't like to answer.)

4) What are the new features on the new MFT when compared to the old one?

5) What are the enhanced features on the new MFT when compared to the old one?

6) Are there any new or enhanced accessories available?  What are they?  Why are they better? 

7) Since many (most?) of us already have at least one MFT, how can the new and old MFT be integrated to work together?   Are there any limitations in doing this?  What are they?

8 ) I want to see multiple, detailed pictures of the old and new MFT side-by-side.   I want to compare them visually BEFORE I buy the new one.   And a local dealer probably will NOT have them to compare.  To them it's inventory.  They'll sell or otherwise dispose of their old MFT floor model ASAP.

If the new MFT has some new and better features, I might buy one.  But I would be royally PO'd if I bought one and found that it didn't give me any advantages and/or it didn't integrate well with my old MFT.  In other words, it's OK to have limitatations, but be darned sure you tell me up front what they are.

Regards,

Dan.


Offline Jesse Cloud

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 12:24 PM »
Dan's list of questions is great, but I agree with JRB that we could be a lot more helpful if Festool gave us something to go on.  I'm particularly interested in the compatibility issue.  Many if not most of us already have an MFT and if we were to buy a second or third MFT, we would want to combine them to be some sort of jumbo system.

I'm hoping for an improved way of squaring and leveling the rail guide and I would really like it if that improvement could be retrofitted onto  the old MFT.

Offline Dan Clark

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2008, 01:02 PM »
I should have mentioned that I agree with JRB and Brice, but they already made the point well and I wanted to add something different.   That said, my questions are pretty generic.  If I had some preliminary info, I'd fine-tune them much better.  It's a chicken and egg thing.

Dan.

Offline Jim Dailey

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2008, 01:07 PM »
Dan,

Very well said!!!  

Since I have two MFT's; a 1080 & a large table with 79" (2000 mm rails) & 45" (1165 mm rails) PLUS all of the current accessories for the MFT's as they exist today, I want to know "how the new will compliment the old".  

The functionality of my current setup will remain, but are we looking at complete "oil & water" between the "new & the old...."   ie. Connectivity; (height of new vs old, width of new vs old),  Functionality; (20 mm holes at 96 mm spacing...  meaning are current accessories/jigs still usable with new system)  The height, width along with how new/old rail profiles matchup will determine if the old MFT's can be connected/adapted to the new.  The hole size/spacing or lack there of..., will determine wether the current accessories/jigs will be able to be used on the new system.  

Again regardless of what happens, the functionality of the current generation of MFT's will remain.

So like everyone else I am waiting to "see"... and a picture will go a long way on clearing this up.  With something tangible like a picture or drawing it will allow us to both ask intelligent questions and give positive feedback.  

I'm all for better products to allow me to work faster with more efficiency to turn out higher quality of work for my customers....    These are the very reasons why I purchased over a period of years nearly every power tool & accessory offered by Festool in the USA.  

jim
Life is just a series of projects...

Offline Ned

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2008, 01:10 PM »
Agree with Dan's list.

3) Which OLD accessories will NOT work on the new MFT?  (This is typically a tough one that marketing people don't like to answer.)

But German tool marketing people are probably different from [any nationality] software marketing people.

If Festool were run like a software company, they'd have shipped several containers of empty MFT3 boxes to the US in time to count them as "shipped in 2007".  :P

MFT3.1 would be the first one that actually existed.   :D

Ned
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 01:11 PM by Ned Young »

Offline Daviddubya

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  • Arizona, USA
Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2008, 01:28 PM »
I must believe, at this stage, that Festool already has the design of the new MFT completed, and that the product is going into manufacturing soon.  Knowing that the old MFT was history, surely a company as saavy as Festool has been working on the replacement for sometime.  Right???

Dan's list is hard to add to - good job, Dan.

If Festool wants a critique of the new MFT, then let us have a look at it.  That look would most likely not be a public look, on this or any other public forum.  Pick a few knowledgeable Festool users, and let them do the critique - much like the beta users of the Domino.

That said, I think backward compatibility with the "old" MFT and accessories is pretty key.  I already have two MFT's and doubt I'd be buying any more, unless it was for another location.  But lots of folks have one and will want to add on in the future.  I find a double MFT the center of my home shop.

Easier portability is another feature I think is important for those that move the MFT to job sites.  The MFT is heavy and takes up a decent amount of space when folded.  Removing and replacing the fence system to avoid damaging it in transit is not all that easy.  Improvements in this area would be welcomed by lots of users.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 01:29 PM by Daviddubya »
David W. Falkenstein
in Cave Creek, AZ, USA

Offline Emmanuel

  • Posts: 174
Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008, 02:00 PM »
For me the compatibility with the old MFT is the most important thing.

I already have 2 of them and will not upgrade just because there is a new model.

I can see myself however be enclined to extend my system in the future and add a third one. I will not do it unless the new MFT is compatible.

Emmanuel

Offline Overtime

  • Posts: 265
  • Eastern Iowa USA
Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 02:24 PM »
For me the compatibility issue would be with my wallet.  :o  How many more coin$ to get the "3" of the new MFT3 ?
 I'm doing just fine with my current MFT so there must be some significant changes.  ???
Patrick

Offline lawhoo

  • Posts: 176
Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2008, 02:32 PM »
In addition to the factors mentioned by others--especially an improved ability to square the fence and rail--I would like to see at least the option of retractable casters to make the MFT more mobile in the shop.

Offline Fred West

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2008, 03:36 PM »
I agree with everything said above and as I currently have 3 MFTs I want to know will I be able to clamp from the side with any kind of pressure without bending the side rail. This one issue alone could make the difference for me. Fred
Domino,TS 75, Trion PS 300, RO 150, ETS 150/5, DTS 400, RS 400, LS 130, RS 2, Deltex 93, CT 33 CT 22, CT Midi & 3 MFT 1080s, OF 1400, C 12, RAS 115, MFK 700, MFT/3 :o)

Offline Forrest Anderson

  • Posts: 1072
Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2008, 03:39 PM »
As Festool prepares to release the MFT3, they are interested in gathering questions from members of this forum.  Festool will use your responses to be proactive in addressing customers' interests and concerns.

So please jump in and tell Festool what you want to know about the MFT3!

It rather sounds as though Festool are preparing a set of Frequently Asked Questions for the new MFT, along similar lines to the following FAQs about the old MFT:

  • At what dimensions should the stops for the guide rail support and the hinged guide rail holding device be set on the MFT 1080?
  • I was cutting into my MFT with my TS55 saw. Is that normal? Do I have to replace the top? 
  • Can you make the MFT larger?
  • What holes should be used to locate the protractor head of the angle unit on the MFT? 
  • How can I accurately transfer angles from my angle unit to the MFT?
  • How heavy are the multifunction tables? Is it easy to take them to the jobsite?
  • Can I connect two or more tables to make a larger work surface?
  • What is the load capacity of the MFT multifunction table?


Assuming that is the case, I reckon Dan's questions are an excellent basis for the new FAQ, and here are a few more of my own:

  • Which new accessories for the MFT3 will fit the old MFT?
  • Which new accessories for the MFT3 will not fit the old MFT?
  • Can the MFT3 be purchased in various sizes?
  • Will parts be available (eg longer rails) which will allow users to construct larger MFTs?
  • How can I join an old MFT to the MFT3?
  • Can the MFT3 be adjusted in height?
  • When will the MFT3 start to become available in various markets?


Forrest






Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2008, 03:43 PM »
Hi,

   Adjustable height and / or at least three legs adjustable fo leveling instead of one leveling leg.

   Some ,very accurate, integrated set up for squaring the guide rail.

   A size that is large enough to cut 49" (oversize ply, part board).
 
   Make it lighter-  for easier transport.

Seth
  

Offline Texastutt

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  • Just Do It!
Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2008, 05:58 PM »
Here Here on a bit lighter... It is a bear to haul into a home.
It is my assembly table, cut to size table, and lunch table. So I would like to know what we're asking on.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper." - Ben Franklin

Offline nola

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2008, 08:00 PM »
a discount to those who recently purchased one :)

Offline ccmviking

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2008, 08:01 PM »
There are different audiences for such information.  There is information needed for those folks that have never seen or heard of an MFT, then there is what is needed by folks that already know a lot about them whether or not they currently own one.  I believe from what I've seen and/or heard about the MFT is that it's a great product and very useful.  I personally have been on the fence about purchasing mainly due to some of the shortcomings discussed on this site (e.g. the ability to quickly and accurately square, the sloppiness of the tab where the rail lands, etc.).  What I would like to see is what it's capabilities are, and how has it been improved over the now discontinued MFT.

Chris...       

Offline Qwas

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2008, 09:00 PM »
Hi,

   Adjustable height and / or at least three legs adjustable fo leveling instead of one leveling leg.

   Some ,very accurate, integrated set up for squaring the guide rail.

   A size that is large enough to cut 49" (oversize ply, part board).
 
   Make it lighter-  for easier transport.

Seth
  

I agree with everything Seth says and how about some stiffer legs to stop the table from shaking.
Along with quickly and easily squaring the fence to the guide rail, how about a fast and accurate 45 degree setting (after all, the 2007 USA catalog says "the MFT will, in many cases, outperform a miter saw... in terms of precision...).
An optional vise.
How about a small shelf (5-10 inches deep) underneath the table for storing tools and tape measure while working a big project on the table top.
A shelf to hold the TS55/75 between cuts.
Some holes in the side rails so the clamping elements can work there too.
2 boards (or anything else) that slide up from underneath the table to give a perfect 90 degree corner when gluing up parts.
Perhaps an optional storage cabinet underneath the table.
A support coming up and over the table for lights, power strip, vacuum hose.



Offline Dan Uhlir

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2008, 10:07 PM »
Fred

        Hope your face heals up, man that looks like you got hit with a slapshot. when did that happen ? wow dan

Offline Fred West

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2008, 10:51 PM »
Dan, as I told Eli in a PM it was two years ago and luckily it was not a slapshot or I would have been really hurt. As it was I had two blow out fractures of the orbital socket, broke my nose in two places and jammed bone fragments into the maxillary sinus cavity. However, I was back on the ice three weeks later and am fully recovered. In addition I drove myself eight miles to the hospital bleeding like a stuck pig in my hockey gear. They x-rayed me, stitched me up, gave me vicodine and said okay drive yourself home.  ;D It was quite an eventful night. At least now I wear a half shield. ;) Again as I mentioned to Eli, I just like the picture and since I don't need to impress any woman, I figured what the heck. ::) Fred
Domino,TS 75, Trion PS 300, RO 150, ETS 150/5, DTS 400, RS 400, LS 130, RS 2, Deltex 93, CT 33 CT 22, CT Midi & 3 MFT 1080s, OF 1400, C 12, RAS 115, MFK 700, MFT/3 :o)

Offline Remodelboy

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2008, 11:47 PM »
Matthew,

Like the others, I would love to see and read as much as possible about the MFT3, but I would really like to get this information ASAP.  Here's why,

A while back, I thought that I had dialed in my solution for the "large MFT" and picked up enough material to make a large torsion box and two Jmatz inspired mft cabinets.  I was going to buy another mft 1080 and end up with a modular and highly flexible bench and assembly table system.

Now I am paralyzed by this new development.  Do I  try to buy a used 1080 from someone anxious to buy the new mft?  What size do I make the Jmatz mft cabinets now?  Can I sell my old MFT and for how much?  Might there be a size of MFT available that might preclude making my own large mft?  Is my collection of accessories compatible with the new mft?  Is the mounting system for the guide rail sturdier or the same?  Is the fence system sturdier or the same?

These are just a few of the questions that I have for Festool that would be helpful in allowing me to move forward again.  All of the materials are sitting in the middle of a 2 car garage space preventing me from parking my wife's car indoors.  If I don't start getting some specifics about the mft3 soon, I will stack everything to the side (in everyone's way) and use it eventually, but I would have prefered to have just bought everything later.

There, that is my personal plea (rant).  A reminder to Festool that many of their customers have a personal story behind their need for the information.  Some might be holding up a business purchase.  Some might need to know how much it will cost to change over to the new MFTs.  Some might need to know if the new MFT's are really better.  And some might just need to park their wife's car in the garage asap.

Offline Eli

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2008, 11:52 PM »
Maybe there's some way you could integrate a giant MFT into your wife's car. Anyway, why does she need a car anyway? Wives just get so spoiled. ;D
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline ken257

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2008, 12:53 PM »
This is my dilemma. I was going to make my first Festool purchase a TS55 and a MFT 1080. Now I read about a new model but there is no information available yet. Do I wait or go ahead and make a purchase? I see some people have been asking for a lighter more portable table. I want the opposite, enough weight to be steady for hand planes. If the new table is lighter I want the old and vice versa. So I would like to see a list comaring the features of the old vs. new models.

Offline poto

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2008, 01:55 PM »
Ken, you won't want to use the old MFT for hand planing. It's just not rigid enough as it comes. Some posters have given suggestions for cross braces to stiffen it. But a big heavy wooden bench will work much better. If the new MFT is less flexible, it might work...

Offline Corwin

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2008, 06:33 PM »
Knowing the size(s) of the new MFT3 would also be helpful for those considering any new Guide Rail purchases...  or curious about what you currently own.  Will new sizes be available, and/or will the current offerings still be appropriate for single and combined MFT3 use.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2008, 04:57 PM »
I, too, am somewhat hung up in what to do next in setting up my shop, absent any real, reliable information regarding MFT3.  I currently have a MFT 1080 complete and an 800 basic, and have been thinking about adding another of either size.  Ideally, for my single car sized garage/shop I would like to have 3 MFTs arranged in a line along a wall with a pair of larger MFTs, one on either side of a smaller MFT.  This would be their configuration during storage and when cutting lumber to length with my CMS (and possibly a Kapex if that ever gets to USA).  The center MFT would support my CMS and be set up with its top lower than the tops of the other two MFTs whose table tops would act as additional support.

Here's what else I would like to see in a redesigned MFT:

1) Less weight.  I'm 5'8", 155 lb and 61 years old.  I can move an MFT 1080, but it's not easy, and if I injure my back, I won't be buying more Festools.  Weight could be reduced by making the top of two layers.  The lower layer could be made of a light weight honeycomb (torsion) box laminate material, and could be "permanently" fastened to the frame, independent of the upper layer.   The upper layer could then be a sheet of ~1/4 (6mm) thick MDF.  Both layers would have the traditional Festool holes pattern.  Only the thin, upper layer would need to be periodically replaced after it became worn through use (saw cuts).

2)  Mobility.  Retractable casters?

3)  Adjustable height.  People and projects come in different heights, and some tasks are easier if the height of the support on which the workpiece rests can be adjusted. 

4)  Ability to clamp a the end of a workpiece that is hanging off the table with a clamp inserted into the top slot of a side rail (without having to insert a supporting shim.

5)  Ability to use Kreg style clamps mounted to the top slot of a side rail.  (And/or for Festool to make their FZ style clamps with a swivel joint so the clamp can engage the top slot of a side rail while the clamp head can be rotated to engage a workpiece on the MFT top.

6)  An improved leg design with bracing to make the MFT sufficently stable for use with hand planes.

7)  An improved fence/mitre gauge head.  The approach taken by Incra in its V27 design which has very positive stops in 5 degree increments as well as at 22 1/2 degrees cannot be very expensive to produce.  I have one: it has no adjustability except the width of the mitre bar to eliminate side slop, yet it appears to be dead on at 90 degrees (as measured with a large Woodpeckers precision square).

8)  Clamps that can be inserted, positioned and actually clamped using only one hand.

9)  Larger, more economically priced extensions.

10)  Larger size for use in cross cutting 4'x8' sheet goods.

11)  Accessories system/adapter to facilitate cutting of 4'x8' sheet goods.  Think about what a small person working alone needs to do this safely without injuring his back.  I avoid 4'x8' sheets of 3/4" melamine and MDF due to the risk of back injury due to their weight and the awkwardness, but even plywood of the same dimension is fairly heavy.

12) Periodic "gaps" in the channels in the bottom and inside surfaces of the side rails so clamps, square, hex and slotted nuts and bolts can be inserted into/removed from those channels without having to disassemble the side rails from the end pieces.  This would facilitate additional setups, e.g. to attach anti-racking braces or a (horizontal) router station and addition of fixtures, e.g. a hanging drawer/tray for storage.

I also agree with Dan C's questions, especially compatibility with "old" MFT accessories, especially clamps.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Eli

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2008, 05:32 PM »
I would like the new MFT3 to have some improvements as well. I've enclosed my short list.

1) Hover capability. Doesn't have to be anything fancy.

2) A way to keep beer cold. Maybe a liquor style well on the side for sandwich condiments.

3) Detachable digital voice recorder, for remembering measurements, and so that my wife and I can communicate every so often. She pretty much always says the same thing, so maybe I can just send Festool a recording of her saying "You lazy bastard, get in here and help me with the kids!", and make it a button. Better yet, maybe it could be incorporated in to one of those Homer Simpson style talking bottle openers. Should easily integrate with feature #2 (see above)

4) I'd like the table to be incredibly heavy when feature #1 is not activated, so I can hand plane. But not so heavy I have to reinforce the floor joists or add another set of springs on the van.

5) Not too crazy on the heavy. I don't want the hover mechanism to pull too much power. If the hover mechanism could work off the exhaust of a CT22, that would be great.
 
6) wifi and a bluetooth printer, for making up invoices.

7} I'd like the legs to be adjustable from four inches to seven feet, so the table can be stowed under a bed, but so that I can also use it as drywall scaffold.



 :D :D



Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline jonny round boy

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2008, 06:38 PM »
PMSL - Eli, you really crack me up!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....