Author Topic: MFS: Notes on the MFS  (Read 46051 times)

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Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2019, 03:57 PM »
Just a reminder to all that any enterprising person with a credit card (ideally, tied to a PayPal account) and an internet connection can readily and easily locate and purchase an MFS of their choosing (along with additional profiles, accessories, etc.) from any number of online retailers. Everything you need to know to do so is located elsewhere on this forum. For instance, just spend a few minutes reading up on other posts related to the MFS. IOW just because Festool did a questionable job of marketing this brilliant device, doesn't mean that we here in N.A. need to suffer from their subsequent decision to quit importing it.

Here's the video - that along with all of the other MFS user content that's hiding in plain site on the web - sealed the deal for me (in it, the presenter shows how he is able to achieve stunning accuracy in processing sheet goods simply by using his MFS as a square in conjunction with a TS 55 and FS guide rail) [this technique, of course, is no doubt informed by the wonderful examples set by Brice Burrell and Jerry Work in their respective "guides to the MFS"]:



It's been written before (but bears repeating)...in a nutshell, the MFS is:
  • an incredibly accurate square and squaring jig (for squaring your MFT/3 & other cutting machines, guide rails, cabinet carcasses, picture/mirror/window frames (and for gluing up all the above), etc.);
  • a highly accurate and adjustable router, drill & jigsaw template/guide (for milling open field squares, rectangles, circles, arcs and other geometric shapes plus sliding dovetails, inlays, Dutchman, etc.);
  • a router slide (paired with the slide accessory) for planing stuff like slabs or anything else that can or cannot be fed through a planer (a machine you may or may not already own);
  • with a little forethought, a great platform for a precision uniform hole-pattern drilling jig (see my previous post for a couple of inspirational photos in this regard) and precision uniform mortise-pattern Domino'ing jig (see the following for inspiration:

    [could be used in conjunction with a Lamello, etc., too]);
  • cauls for use during glue ups; and...
  • the list goes on (and on, and on).
For me, the fact that this tool is in fact so many tools in-one helps significantly to justify the cost. Moreover, the fact that I'll be able to avoid having to make plywood routing jigs translates into material savings and time savings. How many members of this forum drop hundreds on a set of WP's precision square's? And a square only has one function! I'm all about multi-function so this tool should fit many indivdual bills nicely for me.

Be sure to check out Mr. Burrell's and Mr. Work's respective guides for more!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 04:19 PM by TinyShop »
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

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Offline 08G8V8

  • Posts: 71
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2020, 12:17 AM »
Just a reminder to all that any enterprising person with a credit card (ideally, tied to a PayPal account) and an internet connection can readily and easily locate and purchase an MFS of their choosing (along with additional profiles, accessories, etc.) from any number of online retailers. Everything you need to know to do so is located elsewhere on this forum. For instance, just spend a few minutes reading up on other posts related to the MFS. IOW just because Festool did a questionable job of marketing this brilliant device, doesn't mean that we here in N.A. need to suffer from their subsequent decision to quit importing it.


I did a search and didn’t see much on ordering except the last post in this thread. Not sure if this is a reputable method of ordering.


Has the MFS Router Template System been discontinued?
 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=11638&share_tid=45927&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffestoolownersgroup%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D45927&share_type=t&link_source=app


Is there another/better source? 

I see Woodpeckers does make a similar setup. It has no measurements along the lengths, so I was curious how much difference that makes in setup. I’m would think it definitely makes setup quicker.  Thoughts?

Thanks




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Offline 08G8V8

  • Posts: 71
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2020, 12:23 AM »
I guess it does have metric and imperial scales.  I thought it didn’t last time I looked at it on their website, but I guess I was mistaken.

I know this is a Festool site, but for those of us in the USA, what would be the differences in these 2 options?

Thanks


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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7676
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #63 on: January 01, 2020, 12:27 AM »
I did a search and didn’t see much on ordering except the last post in this thread. Not sure if this is a reputable method of ordering.

Has the MFS Router Template System been discontinued?

PM me if you're looking for a source.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2194
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #64 on: January 01, 2020, 12:44 PM »
I know this is a Festool site, but for those of us in the USA, what would be the differences in these 2 options?
Other than dual scale the advantage of Woodpeckers template is better connection. In MFS there is a single screw in the corner - poor choice if you are connecting just two pieces (L or T shape). Also WP extrusions are easily available individually in various length.

Offline Samo

  • Posts: 595
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2020, 01:29 PM »
I know this is a Festool site, but for those of us in the USA, what would be the differences in these 2 options?
Other than dual scale the advantage of Woodpeckers template is better connection. In MFS there is a single screw in the corner - poor choice if you are connecting just two pieces (L or T shape). Also WP extrusions are easily available individually in various length.

Also, not being Festool, more reasonably priced :(
It's The FOG!  Just rotate the screen.

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2020, 11:08 PM »
@Svar - True, though couldn't one simply purchase some spares of the left-hand threaded insert, small diameter-headed hex bolts and vee nuts (Festool 466353) to allow for connection on both sides when desired? Now, I realize that as far as spare parts go, they aren't cheap but....

Speaking of which, I stumbled upon the fact that the 80/20 folks early-on employed this same style of connector:



I'm now on a quest to locate an alternative source of the particular combination of connecting hardware which the MFS utilizes. I wonder if I'll be able to locate one?

 [popcorn]

......well that didn't take very long:

Zinc plated hardware

https://us-product.item24.com/en/productdetails/products/automatic-fastening-sets-1001012019/automatic-fastening-set-5-bright-zinc-plated-39160/

Stainless steel hardware

https://us-product.item24.com/en/productdetails/products/automatic-fastening-sets-1001012019/automatic-fastening-set-5-stainless-43746/

This has got to be the same hardware. The installation instructions for the "Automatic-Fastening Sets" even state that, "Important: The sleeve of the Automatic Fastener has a left-hand thread, the sleeve of the Automatic-Butt Fastener (with internal thread) bears a right-hand thread outside." Also, the associated non-standard small-diameter-head cap screw is an M4 X 30. Question: is the thread/pitch on the MFS cap screw M4 X 30?

As a curious aside, the instructions also state that, "Automatic-Fastening Sets should always be used in pairs." All the more reason to pick up some extras, no? ;)
 
Anyone interested in an upgrade (and willing to engage in some light machining of some 12mm diameter holes) - may be worth it to eliminate the risk of the threads stripping out of the profiles - might get excited by the following connecting hardware:

Zinc Plated - https://us-product.item24.com/en/productdetails/products/universal-fastening-sets-1001012017/universal-fastening-set-5-bright-zinc-plated-37027/

Stainless - https://us-product.item24.com/en/productdetails/products/universal-fastening-sets-1001012017/universal-fastening-set-5-stainless-43752/

Now, from the looks of the stock profiles produced by this German company (another tip-off), the MFS is produced from a proprietary set of dies (it doesn't perfectly match any of the company's stock profiles). However, all the connecting hardware designed for the v-channel appears to be of a standard design (and looks remarkably similar to the MFS connecting hardware). I'm guessing, therefore, that the hardware compatible with the MFS is everything intended for the "Profile 5 80X20" extrusions (these look the most similar to the MFS profile - minus the T-tracks, etc.). Moreover, according to the info contained in Brice's guide, the MFS measures 80mm wide X 16mm thick. Meanwhile, the "Profile 5 80X20" appears to measure, well, 80mm X 20mm (which again may infer that the MFS is produced using a custom die).

Finally, as always, the Germans have thought of everything. Who won't get a kick out of the custom drill guide?

Or, for those wishing a less expensive option, the drilling jig?

So, there you have it. For the heck of it, I registered for an account and submitted an "Enquiry" for 10 each of the basic connecting hardware kits (in zinc plating and stainless - I want to be able to compare the pricing for the two different metal compositions). Not sure if they'll sell to the public but I'll report back whatever I hear. FWIW their U.S. headquarters is in Hagerstown, MD, and here's a list of their regional reps.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 11:24 PM by TinyShop »
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7676
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2020, 11:53 PM »
@Svar - True, though couldn't one simply purchase some spares of the left-hand threaded insert, small diameter-headed hex bolts and vee nuts (Festool 466353) to allow for connection on both sides when desired? Now, I realize that as far as spare parts go, they aren't cheap but....

Yessssss...that's exactly what I did when I restructured the MFS to fabricate some HVAC grilles from Brazilian Cherry. I added an extra fastener to each leg and it worked out fine. I think each fastener was around $10. Not initially cheap, however very cheap when considering the alternative. I was quoted a price of $105 per grill to have these fabricated by an outside service, not including the material. I needed 7 of them so do the math...$40 for fasteners vs $700+ for the finished product.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 12:02 AM by Cheese »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4867
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2020, 12:18 AM »
Don’t recall the name of the company but Festool bought the MFS from the original developers.
Festool might have added the the plastic shoe to prevent the router from tipping?

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2020, 03:04 AM »
Don’t recall the name of the company but Festool bought the MFS from the original developers.
Festool might have added the the plastic shoe to prevent the router from tipping?

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/mfs-notes-on-the-mfs/msg596786/#msg596786
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7676
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2020, 10:39 AM »
Also, the associated non-standard small-diameter-head cap screw is an M4 X 30. Question: is the thread/pitch on the MFS cap screw M4 X 30?

Yes it is.




Those upgrade kits are rather interesting.  [big grin]  There may be some in my future.

I learned early on that inserting, and moving 466353 from leg to leg is not an ideal situation as the outer sleeve can become loose in the extrusion and when you turn the M4 cap screw, sometimes the outer sleeve also turns so nothing locks down. It's better to just purchase the extra 466353 parts and install them in each extruded leg. If you need them they're always there.

Here's some original info on the GEAT system.

* GEAT SDG3_1.pdf (1574.79 kB - downloaded 78 times.)

* GEAT SDG3_2.pdf (1512.5 kB - downloaded 68 times.)

* GEAT SDG3_3.pdf (1212.83 kB - downloaded 71 times.)

* GEAT SDG3_4.pdf (953.45 kB - downloaded 53 times.)

« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 10:45 AM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7676
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2020, 10:55 AM »
Don’t recall the name of the company but Festool bought the MFS from the original developers.
Festool might have added the the plastic shoe to prevent the router from tipping?

@Michael Kellough it seems that the spacer/tilt protector was a part of the GEAT system.




Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4867
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2020, 11:51 AM »
@TinyShop   thanks!

“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.

There is still an english broshure for the GEAT-system available (nice description, many pics), you can grab it here -> http://www.geatsystem.com/geatwd/dt/znf/sdg_3e.zip

No need to say that the price raised a little bit when Festool took over the system  :P

Regards

Mark”

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 877
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2020, 05:19 PM »
“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.


Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2194
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2020, 05:35 PM »
“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.
Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?
They are all universal. Not sure GEAT was MFS predecessor. GEAT looks like standard 20x80mm t-slot aluminum framing. MFS profiles look more like Virutex template. Hard to tell who invented this concept, it's been around for a long time. Trend has a cheap version too.
I'll be a contrarian here and say MFS is a bit gimmicky. There is a small group of fans that swear by it, but when I see it used often there are simpler ways. I guess if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I would certainly not trust MFS as a square, or use it for clamping, or circle jig, or makeshift router table (as in one of the previous post).
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 05:50 PM by Svar »

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2020, 07:15 PM »
“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.
Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?
They are all universal. Not sure GEAT was MFS predecessor. GEAT looks like standard 20x80mm t-slot aluminum framing. MFS profiles look more like Virutex template. Hard to tell who invented this concept, it's been around for a long time. Trend has a cheap version too.
I'll be a contrarian here and say MFS is a bit gimmicky. There is a small group of fans that swear by it, but when I see it used often there are simpler ways. I guess if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I would certainly not trust MFS as a square, or use it for clamping, or circle jig, or makeshift router table (as in one of the previous post).

@Svar - The GEAT was absolutely the predecessor to the MFS. Had you followed the various links I provided, you would have encountered the statement on the GEAT website's homepage that alerts visitors to the fact that Festool purchased them. The MFS's provenance, therefore, is not in dispute.

Moreover, had you read either of the MFS guides or watched the AskWoodMan vid I posted above, you'd know that the MFS is in fact an incredibly accurate and reliable square (and, for that matter, incredibly accurate T-square & L-square, circle jig, teardrop jig, sliding dovetail jig, open field jig, hole cutting jig...among other uses).

Finally, if spending a few minutes to set the MFS to the desired dimensions (and to also decide on a clamping strategy) is what results in you characterizing it as "finicky"- when the alternative wastes a piece of plywood in producing a one time jig (that often ends up being kept and cluttering up a shop) - then I suppose there's no convincing you that there might actually be a better way.

@Cheese - Thanks for confirming the cap bolt spec and also for posting the GEAT brochure pages! I hadn't seen those before. It was certainly news to me that the GEAT was actually once available in N.A. Good history to be aware of. I subsequently added those pages to my file on the MFS.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 09:43 PM by TinyShop »
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7676
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2020, 08:00 PM »
Ya, unfortunately without GEAT, the Festool MFS wouldn’t exist. They were the original incarnation of the MFS.


Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2812
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2020, 12:03 AM »
I really like the MFS - it just takes time to use it and get things figured out and once you do, it opens up lots of possibilities. I use it as a fence to guide my jigsaw on some joinery tasks - works great and is repeatable. I like the circle cutting capability and will be using that function again this week on several circles I need to cut. I have used it to square my MFT and a host of other things. Too bad it was discontinued here...I dropped and dinged one of the profiles when it hit my concrete shop floor - so that was a bummer not to be able to easily replace one component. All in all a good accessory.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7676
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2020, 12:24 AM »
I really like the MFS - it just takes time to use it and get things figured out and once you do, it opens up lots of possibilities. I use it as a fence to guide my jigsaw on some joinery tasks - works great and is repeatable. I like the circle cutting capability and will be using that function again this week on several circles I need to cut. I have used it to square my MFT and a host of other things. Too bad it was discontinued here...I dropped and dinged one of the profiles when it hit my concrete shop floor - so that was a bummer not to be able to easily replace one component. All in all a good accessory.
e
I concur...a great tool. I just ordered a couple of extra MFS 400 extrusions this week.

Offline simonh

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Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2020, 04:54 AM »
Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?

I use it with my Dewalt routers and guide bush. There's only the circle jig that I didn't have the correct sized guide bush so I made a reducer on the CNC rather than buying the appropriate guide bush.

-Simon
-Simon

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 781
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #80 on: January 03, 2020, 08:50 AM »
I've considered getting an MFS or similar several times. I had it ordered at one point from overseas but the pricing was an error so they canceled. I think knowing that a Shaper Origin or other CNC is in my future, albeit years away, has kept me from getting a router jig. I like the solution Manor Wood came up with using cheap 2080 profiles from Banggood:

https://www.banggood.com/Machifit-700mm-Length-2080-T-Slot-Aluminum-Profiles-Extrusion-Frame-For-CNC-p-1251777.html?utm_campaign=25358581_1268787&utm_content=10535&p=X5032125358581201810&cur_warehouse=CN

Video is on the page I linked. I think he was all in around 100 pounds to have a meter capability. They sell shorter profiles. If I had a need for a router jig I think I'd go that route (rout? Pun intended) to hold me over until I can get into a CNC.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline simonh

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Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2020, 09:05 AM »
I've made little templates out of scrap 9mm MDF on the CNC that insert into the inside groove of the MFS. Here's an example one for the Button Fix recessed fittings that you simply route with a guide bush (manufacturer wants 80 quid for a simple jig).

The MFS allows a nice flat platform for the router to balance on and easy to clamp down.  I've made various others and there so small an easy to store for next time.  For example, it's quick and easy to knock up a template for a loose tenon if you are doing a custom project and don't have a Festool Domino.

-Simon

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2020, 12:37 AM »
While I continue to await reply to my various "enquiries", here are some videos to help pass the time:

Standard right-angle connector hardware:



"Upgraded" right-angle connector hardware:


 
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1739
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2020, 06:31 AM »
Standard right-angle connector hardware:
vs.
"Upgraded" right-angle connector hardware:
You have it the other way around: the automatic connector is the newer and improved (over the universal fastening set) version. The improvement being in removing the need to drill the extrusion ends, leading to quicker assembly and increased ability to re-use extrusions harvested from obsoleted builds (as the hole for the connector, that is reducing usable length for the new build, is no more).
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 06:49 AM by Gregor »

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2020, 06:58 AM »
@Gregor - my apologies, but I'm not sure I understand your comment. In the first video, the hardware that accompanies the MFS is shown. In the second, what appears to be a newer style of connector is shown. Are you saying that, historically speaking, the connector that requires the extra milling step actually predates the style that doesn't require the extra milling step? If so, then you just blew my mind.
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1739
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2020, 08:17 AM »
Are you saying that, historically speaking, the connector that requires the extra milling step actually predates the style that doesn't require the extra milling step?
AFAIK: yes.

The product numbers of their various connectors (M8 versions linked):
Standard 0.0.026.07 - needs tapping the central hole of the connected profile and a hole inside the connected-to profile at point of connection (to access the screw).
Universal 0.0.026.92 - only needs milling at the end of the profile you connect, can be freely placed in the connected-to profile.
Automatic 0.0.440.58 - hole-free on both parts, no milling required.
and (decreasing) amount of preparation needed on each of them seem to support that IIRC of mine.
Quote
If so, then you just blew my mind.
I hope this doesn't hurt too much.

PS: The Universal one might be superior in pull-out force compared to the Standard and Automatic ones, didn't look into that aspect but just at the amount of work needed to mount them.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 08:33 AM by Gregor »

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2020, 08:23 AM »
@Gregor - huh. @Cheese is going to be so disappointed!
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS: Notes on the MFS
« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2020, 07:45 PM »
Well, after much dedicated and stubborn persistence on my part (comprising numerous unanswered emails, then a couple of unanswered facebook messenger posts, followed by an assurance that someone would get back to me in two days, followed by another week of silence, followed by two more unanswered facebook posts followed by my receipt of three duplicate emails from three different Item 24 reps, I finally received pricing information for the "Automatic-Fastening Sets" (in zinc-plated and stainless), the "Universal-Fastening Sets" (in zinc-plated and stainless), the relevant-sized "T-Slot Nuts", the basic "Drilling Jig" and the "Step Drill". Perhaps not surprisingly (at least for anyone cognizant of the machining differences) the "Universal-Fastening Sets" are about half the price of the "Automatic-Fastening Sets". Meanwhile, and this will be most interesting to current MFS owners, the unit price of the zinc-plated version of the latter is about 30% of the EKAT price, excluding shipping.

I've requested a quote that includes shipping (none of the quotes I received mentions anything about shipping) for a selection of Automatic-Fastening Sets and relevant T-Slot Nuts and will post the results of that request when I hear back.

My impression so far is that Item 24 (at least here in the U.S.) is not necessarily used to dealing with modest orders from the general public or at least I hope something similar explains why it took 22 days for me to receive pricing info.

In closing, since I don't want to step on Festool's toes, anyone wishing to know the exact pricing info I received and what email address they should use to request a quote can PM me.
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin