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FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tools & Accessories => Topic started by: Matthew Schenker on March 02, 2008, 09:03 AM

Title: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Matthew Schenker on March 02, 2008, 09:03 AM
Good Morning,
Following up on the success of the MFT3 discussion (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2264.0), I realized it would be a good idea to post an open-ended thread on each new tool release, where we can collect member opinions, questions, and feedback in one place.  This does not have to be the only place we discuss the tool, but it can help bring our thoughts together.  After the tool is released, these discussions can make future searches on the forum more productive.

This discussion is for the MFK 700 Modular Router.  View Festool's MFK 700 Micro Website (http://mfk700.festoolusa.com/).

So, what are your questions, interests, opinions, and suggestions on the MFK 700?

Festool is listening!

Matthew
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: plastic on March 02, 2008, 10:29 AM
I'd like to know if there is a way to use the MFK 700 with the guide rail adapter for the OF 1100, or another adapter.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jesse Cloud on March 02, 2008, 10:38 AM
I didn't fully understand a couple of the features mentioned in the micro site.  What is the advantage of the 1.5 degree offset?  Not sure I fully understand what the 'sensor bearing' does.  Looks like a very interesting tool!
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: joraft on March 02, 2008, 10:49 AM
It seems that the MFK 700 is a direct descendant of a NAINA router, the OFK 700, which has been around for a while.

I found an interesting thread comparing these two routers on an Australian forum. I couldn't get a link to work, so I just took an excerpt from it:



Spent a bit of time with the OFK today and had a chance to speak with some Festool reps about the differences between the two models.

I will start with a simplified description of the key difference between the two routers, then go onto the minor functional differences. And finally, a simplified selection guide.


Simple explanation of key differences:

The OFK700 comes with a single table that can positioned for horizontal routing, then repositioned for vertical routing - this table is 1.5 degrees. An optional table is available providing for 0 degree horizontal or vertical routing.

The MFK700 comes with two tables, one for horizontal routing, and another for vertical routing. Both tables are 0 degrees. An optional table is available providing for 1.5 degree horizontal routing.

Apart from the minor functional differences (below), the OFK and MFK are generally designed to perform the same functions, but some users will like the single table arrangement of the OFK and some users will prefer the two table arrangement of the MFK. It's nice to have this level of choice but it can be mean you need to spend a little more time making your purchasing decision. And spend a little time thinking over the minor differences mentioned below and which would best suit your needs. So what are these other differences....


More functional differences:

In addition to a bearing guide, the OFK700 also has a 'ski' foot. Useful for particle board which when tracked with a guide bearing directly transfers the particle board imperfections to the trimmed edge. The ski foot smoothes out the imperfections so they are not reproduced on the edge. Particle board edge is an example requiring the ski foot over the bearing guide, but any textured/rippled/dimpled edging is also a time where the ski foot proves useful.

The MFK700 comes with a parallel side fence just like a regular workshop router. This fence can also be used to avoid problems with edge roughness using the bearing, but I am not sure it would be effective like the OFK700's ski foot arrangement on curves. I have not tried this yet. Most importantly, the parallel side fence make this trimmer more of a regular router.


My thoughts which may help making a selection between the OFK700 and the MFK700 a bit easier:

If laminate/edge trimming is the highest priority - it's what you do all the time - the OFK700 is the way to go.

If you do laminate/edge trimming but are also looking for a small easily managed router for round over, chamfering, routing trenches, etc. The MFK700 is probably better suited to your needs.


Other comments:

The MFK700 is not a direct replacement of the OFK700 - so both available.



Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 02, 2008, 10:52 AM
Joraft, it is probably just my desktop but I can't access the link you stuck in there. I am getting a "Database Error" Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: joraft on March 02, 2008, 10:59 AM
Joraft, it is probably just my desktop but I can't access the link you stuck in there. I am getting a "Database Error" Fred

It's not you, Fred, I had the same problem. That forum may just block linking. I took out the link and placed an excerpt of what I thought was most relevant to us.

John
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 02, 2008, 11:02 AM
John, Thank you very much. That was very helpful. Fred P.S. I am probably hiding it but I have a bit of a hankering for the MFK 700.  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Timmy C on March 02, 2008, 11:28 AM
I didn't fully understand a couple of the features mentioned in the micro site.  What is the advantage of the 1.5 degree offset?  Not sure I fully understand what the 'sensor bearing' does.  Looks like a very interesting tool!

Jesse, the sensor bearing keeps the router from plunging into the work piece.  Check out the attachment.  Pictures speak a thousand words.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: joraft on March 02, 2008, 11:45 AM
What is the advantage of the 1.5 degree offset?  Not sure I fully understand what the 'sensor bearing' does.


The 1.5 deg. inclination of the table would make it less likely to damage the surface of the material while edge trimming.

The sensor bearing will follow the edge of the material or a template attached to it.


John
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 02, 2008, 01:23 PM
Timmy C & John, thank you as with Jesse I too was unsure as to the benefit of the 1.5 degree but now am enlightened. Timmy you are quite obviously a talented artist and belong somewhere say with John Madden.  ;) :D ::) :o Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Timmy C on March 02, 2008, 01:33 PM
Timmy C & John, thank you as with Jesse I too was unsure as to the benefit of the 1.5 degree but now am enlightened. Timmy you are quite obviously a talented artist and belong somewhere say with John Madden.  ;) :D ::) :o Fred

LOL....I thought the very thing....."then the bearing butts up against the wood over here....the 1.5 offset fits on top over here...and boom, your ripping off edging in no time.  I love those little guys that pack a punch....."  (Doing my best rendition of John Madden)

t
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Festool USA on March 02, 2008, 02:44 PM
I'd like to know if there is a way to use the MFK 700 with the guide rail adapter for the OF 1100, or another adapter.


The answer is no.  The spacing for the rods on the MFK are different.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Festool USA on March 02, 2008, 02:46 PM
I didn't fully understand a couple of the features mentioned in the micro site.  What is the advantage of the 1.5 degree offset?  Not sure I fully understand what the 'sensor bearing' does.  Looks like a very interesting tool!

Jesse, the sensor bearing keeps the router from plunging into the work piece.  Check out the attachment.  Pictures speak a thousand words.

Another important thing to regarding the sensor bearing... By removing it from the bit itself, you increase the life of the bearing because it is not spinning at 20K rpm.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 02, 2008, 03:31 PM
Timmy, EXCELLENT rendition of Mssr. Madden.  :D I am thinking football meets Festool meets televison for you.  ::) ;) Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jim Dailey on March 02, 2008, 05:13 PM
What will the pricing be on the MFK 700 with both bases?

jim
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dan Clark on March 02, 2008, 06:35 PM
Jim,

Do you mean all three bases?

Dan.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 02, 2008, 07:16 PM
Dan, what is the third base? I am only seeing the 0 and 1.5 degree bases. Are you speaking about the parallel edge guide? Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: joraft on March 02, 2008, 07:45 PM
Dan, what is the third base? I am only seeing the 0 and 1.5 degree bases. Are you speaking about the parallel edge guide? Fred


Fred, the MFK 700 set (574 288) comes with the 0 deg. vertical base and the 1.5 deg. horizontal base. The third base is a 0 deg. horizontal base, and is an option. The parallel edge guide is also an option.

Hopefully they all fit in one systainer.


John
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Festool USA on March 02, 2008, 07:51 PM
Here are the two included bases side-by-side if it helps.  As John said, there is a third base that is sold as an option which is the zero degree horizontal.  The 1.5 degree is designed to protect the surface of the workpiece.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Timmy C on March 02, 2008, 07:53 PM
Dan, what is the third base? I am only seeing the 0 and 1.5 degree bases. Are you speaking about the parallel edge guide? Fred


Fred, the MFK 700 set (574 288) comes with the 0 deg. vertical base and the 1.5 deg. horizontal base. The third base is a 0 deg. horizontal base, and is an option. The parallel edge guide is also an option.

Hopefully they all fit in one systainer.


John

The Festool #495165 is the third base set....If I read it right  :).  T he Set (495165) is $145.00.  That would make the full-meal-deal; MFK 700 Set (574288) $510.00, add the additional base set (495165) $145.00, and the edge guide (495182) $46.50.  The MFK 700 Full Meal Deal Is A Steal at $701.50  Details on these items are still coming out.  I think we will see more definitive answers over the next several days.  I already have a page or so myself.


Timmy
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 02, 2008, 08:08 PM
Thank you all for making me see past my nose at the whole vertical and horizontal situation. ;D  ;) Now as to $701 being a steal well then Timmy I have a deal for you. I will buy you at Full Meal deal at the Fast Food joint of your liking and you can send me the MFK 700 Full Meal Deal as EQUAL compensation.  ;) :D ;D ::) 8) Fred PS How can you pass on this? ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Timmy C on March 02, 2008, 08:12 PM
Thank you all for making me see past my nose at the whole vertical and horizontal situation. ;D  ;) Now as to $701 being a steal well then Timmy I have a deal for you. I will buy you at Full Meal deal at the Fast Food joint of your liking and you can send me the MFK 700 Full Meal Deal as EQUAL compensation.  ;) :D ;D ::) 8) Fred PS How can you pass on this? ;D

Golden Arches vs. Green Letters Hmmm???  Let me think about that one Fred  ;)

Timmy
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 02, 2008, 08:16 PM
Timmy, Timmy, Timmy, what is there to think of? You get GOLDEN Arches I only get Moldy Green Letters.  ;D :D ;) :o ::) Should I start looking closely at my deliveries in May?  :D Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Terp on March 02, 2008, 08:37 PM
Just don't accept the green fries at the drive through window :P :D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: joraft on March 02, 2008, 08:46 PM
The MFK 700 Full Meal Deal Is A Steal at $701.50 ...


Timmy


Oh geez, my wife is gonna love to hear about why I need this one.

John
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dan Clark on March 02, 2008, 08:50 PM
...
The Festool #495165 is the third base set....If I read it right  :).  T he Set (495165) is $145.00.  That would make the full-meal-deal; MFK 700 Set (574288) $510.00, add the additional base set (495165) $145.00, and the edge guide (495182) $46.50.  The MFK 700 Full Meal Deal Is A Steal at $701.50 
...
Timmy
Timmy,

Awesome router?  Uhmmm... Check!  Incredible flexibility?  Uhmmm... Check!  Extremely high quality?  Uhmmm... Check!  "Steal?"  Whoa!

Duuuuude...  "Steal???"  Timmy, you been sniffin' the CT22 exhaust again?!?  Uh huh... I knew it!!!  ;D

I'm going to buy that router.  I'd call it a good long term investment that will save me time and give me better quality with less work than I could otherwise.   However, "steal"...  Nah. 8)

Regards,

Dan.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Timmy C on March 02, 2008, 08:51 PM
The MFK 700 Full Meal Deal Is A Steal at $701.50 ...


Timmy


Oh geez, my wife is gonna love to hear about why I need this one.

John

Just tell her it is "Modular".  Dude, that word just sounds highly specialized.  Hence, worth every penny.  Then take her to the Golden Arches for dinner.....She let's you have the Festool Full Meal Deal, and buy her her own Full Meal Deal.  I would suggest something a little more fancy....Like............................... Applebee's... ;D ;)   

Timmy
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Timmy C on March 02, 2008, 08:59 PM
...
The Festool #495165 is the third base set....If I read it right  :).  T he Set (495165) is $145.00.  That would make the full-meal-deal; MFK 700 Set (574288) $510.00, add the additional base set (495165) $145.00, and the edge guide (495182) $46.50.  The MFK 700 Full Meal Deal Is A Steal at $701.50 
...
Timmy
Timmy,

Awesome router?  Uhmmm... Check!  Incredible flexibility?  Uhmmm... Check!  Extremely high quality?  Uhmmm... Check!  "Steal?"  Whoa!

Duuuuude...  "Steal???"  Timmy, you been sniffin' the CT22 exhaust again?!?  Uh huh... I knew it!!!  ;D

I'm going to buy that router.  I'd call it a good long term investment that will save me time and give me better quality with less work than I could otherwise.   However, "steal"...  Nah. 8)

Regards,

Dan.

Pehaps I should put "Squeal" intsted of "Steal"  I just couldn't find the appropriate rhyme fast enough.  My rapping days are long gone dude!  I agree that the router is an awesome investment.

Thanks for checking me up on that one Dan,

Cheers,

Timmy
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dan Clark on March 02, 2008, 09:33 PM
"Squeal"???   Yep, that works for me!  ;D

Dan.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: billybokay on March 02, 2008, 09:54 PM
This makes the 1010 look practically free @ $330.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tallgrass on March 02, 2008, 11:35 PM
i do not see he advantage over the 1010 with the edge trimming attachments? don't get me wrong i need no help buying more festools but i just don't get this one if you have the 1010 which i have. thoughts?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Overtime on March 03, 2008, 01:26 AM
It looks like a fine trim router and it sure has enough power. I got a feeling it's allot better, nicer than my PC 310 but 4-500 dollars more ?

 The price just doesn't fit the product and like Billy says, it makes the OF 1010 look practically free, or at the very least, a darn bargain  :D

When comparing the 1010 to the 700 - remember that the 1010 is a light plunge router and the 700 is a trim router (on steroids). Festool is selling the fact that this is more than a "trim" router by making it more versatile and accurate. Which it no doubt looks to be.

While the 1010 is light and small and can be coaxed into trim duty, it is not a trim router. It's still like comparing a school buss to the smart car  ;D  The 1010 is 2 lbs heavier (50%)  than the 700. Trim routers are small and nimble.

Pound for pound, including engineering development and all that stuff,  the 1010 is a real gem compared to this 700.

Makes me want to add another 1010 and a Bosch Colt Variable speed (installers kit) if I need one - to my collection with the total cost still lower than the Deluxe Full deal meal package of the MFK 700.

 I still want one but nope, not gonna get it.   ::)

 
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tallgrass on March 03, 2008, 03:33 AM
i am not sure about being unwieldy or imprecise . the fine trim attachment  it is great. i have used it for trimming and have found the 1010 not wanting in any way. most people have not bought the trimming attachments nor have they used them. festool does not advertise them well and i have only seen a couple of reviews of the trim package. I actually found out what it was by looking in my European catalog and figuring out what it was. as a mater of fact you have to order the parts separately   to get the function.It was funny theat my regional festool rep did not know what i was asking about and the store that i placed the order had never seen the parts nor did they know how it went together. I love it though. as a mater of fact the 1010 has superior visibility to the 700. the more i write this it is looking more and more like a bad idea to by the 700. This coming from a guy who has all of the festool stuff in the us it seems.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Overtime on March 03, 2008, 04:18 AM
 Well I gotta admit that I don't have the edge trimming attachments for the 1010. And I do agree that Festool lacks a communication connection between the tools and accessories.

 They need to do more videos like the new tool releases, with a focus on the accessories - like a 30 second "Festube"view of each accessory and it's relation and use to the tool. Especially the routers.

I think that their accessory sales would increase by at least 100% if they would show the intended use and value of the accessories.

 I also had the same thoughts on the visibility aspect of the 700.  Looks like the bit is totally blocked from view (from above) and only line of sight of the bit is low at work level.
 
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Tinker on March 03, 2008, 06:37 AM
I am very suddenly into my busy season with my day job.  Spring pruning,dormant feeding & seeding, summer scheduling proposals, tax :'( :'( :'( stuff, sno plowing (unexpected but ::) :D ;D) trying to finish my WW'ing projects, getting equipment for summer ready to go, the list is getting bigger by the day. 

I at first had a great interrest in the MFK 700 until i read a comment from Brice about the attachments for the OF 1010.  He said he would be laughing when everybody else was buying into the 700.  There are those within this current discussion who seem to be coming around to the same thoughts as Brice.  I am still interrested, but I am slowly lowering the priority possition for that router.

I am wondering if Brice might do one of his very in depth pictorials on the OF 1010 (I have the 1000 and it is the first router i reach for most of the time.) with all of its accessories.  That would be most helpful to all, i am sure.  Maybe not from Festools point of view, but for those of us who must make decissions based on bankroll>>>  :o ::)

BTW, i am pretty sure THE BOSS LADY would approve also.  I am currently attempting to justify a future where the Domino will be a part of my collection.  There was no explosion when a price in neighborhood of ...(you all know the neighborhood i am speaking of), but it sure did put a damper on things.  luckilly, i am ready to start a project for our daughter for which the Domino would really set it off as fine decore as well as expediting the construction.  That item must find its way downstairs within this month.  (price increases looming)

That will, i am sure, eliminate the MFK 700, as the Kapex is becoming a quiet subject (once the Domi has taken up residence) to creap very carefully into discussions.   ::)

Tinker
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: joraft on March 03, 2008, 10:35 AM
The MFK 700 Full Meal Deal Is A Steal at $701.50 ...


Timmy


Oh geez, my wife is gonna love to hear about why I need this one.

John

Just tell her it is "Modular".  Dude, that word just sounds highly specialized.  Hence, worth every penny.  Then take her to the Golden Arches for dinner.....She let's you have the Festool Full Meal Deal, and buy her her own Full Meal Deal.  I would suggest something a little more fancy....Like............................... Applebee's... ;D ;)   

Timmy


No, it's much worse than that! My wife gets matching funds for everything I spend on tools. She'd just laugh at an offer for Applebee's.

So, $710.00 + $58.58 sales tax X 2 = $1537.16. One very expensive router.

John

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Terp on March 03, 2008, 10:47 AM
  Can't you buy her something you'd like too.  Like an $800.00 bowling ball, for the two of you.
  Ala Homer Simpson.  Marge just grumbled a bit, as I remember. ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 03, 2008, 11:25 AM
 

I at first had a great interrest in the MFK 700 until i read a comment from Brice about the attachments for the OF 1010.  He said he would be laughing when everybody else was buying into the 700.   There are those within this current discussion who seem to be coming around to the same thoughts as Brice.  I am still interrested, but I am slowly lowering the priority possition for that router.

Tinker

Tinker,

  That's not quite what I said. There was some question about the usefulness of horizontal routing, my comment was I'd be laughing when people changed their minds when the MFK 700 came out. However, in the same thread and related to your thoughts, Dan Clark asked these questions:

Brice,


Two questions:

First, Festool shows these accessories for the OF1010, not the OF1400.   What kinds of issues would I have if I bought them for my OF1400?  Any components that won't work?

Second, since I do NOT have the OF1010 but DO have the OF1400 and since the MFK700 Trim Router is NAINA yet, this is a very tough question...  Are there any advantages of an "OF1400 + OF1010 + Edge Routing Accessories" combo versus an "OF1400 + MFK700" combo?

Regards,

Dan.



And my reply was:

Great question Dan. All of the components will work with the 1400. The only thing to mention is using the router horizontally with the edging plate. I would say with the 1010 it is easy and you have to focus while using the 1400. Don't get me wrong, it is very doable, but, the 1010 is my first choice.

  The second question is a little harder to answer since we don't have the MFK700 here yet. I'd say there is advantages to "OF1400 + OF1010 + Edge Routing Accessories". You would have two routers that work with Festool's whole line up of accessories. I don't know if the MFK700 can be used with the LR32 for example. I'd guess that it will work with the guide rails and fit guide bushings. If you were to compare the MFK700 and the OF1010 as routers the 1010 would likely win, but the 700 would be the better edge trimmer. So the questions at large here are this: How much better of an all around router is the 1010 to the 700 and vice versa at edge trimming? The MFK700 has the angled base (1.5 degree)  but the edging plate could be easily modified to do the same thing. I think the those that already have the 1010 stand gain the most from the adding the edging plate vs. buying the MFK700 because you can get the same function for a fraction of the cost.

The line in bold is the hart of this post, until the MFK 700 is released here I can't answer that question.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dave Rudy on March 03, 2008, 12:28 PM
Well I gotta admit that I don't have the edge trimming attachments for the 1010. And I do agree that Festool lacks a communication connection between the tools and accessories.

 They need to do more videos like the new tool releases, with a focus on the accessories - like a 30 second "Festube"view of each accessory and it's relation and use to the tool. Especially the routers.

I think that their accessory sales would increase by at least 100% if they would show the intended use and value of the accessories.

 I also had the same thoughts on the visibility aspect of the 700.  Looks like the bit is totally blocked from view (from above) and only line of sight of the bit is low at work level.
 


Brice did a great review of the edge trimming attachments with the 1010 on his website.  Check it out.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dave Rudy on March 03, 2008, 12:32 PM

until the MFK 700 is released here I can't answer that question.


Brice, When do you think you will be able to do an in-depth review of the 700, to make the comparison with the 1010.  It is exactly the decision I am looking at the moment and would value your advice.

 (Hint to Shane -- maybe Festool would like to get a 700 to Brice to check out -- Hint)
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dan Clark on March 03, 2008, 12:44 PM
Shane,

Somebody else might have mentioned this, but...  It might be good to get the MFK700 to a reviewer or two.   I suggest some people with extensive reviewing experience with the OF1010 and the accessories.   I'm not sure who might be, of course.   ;D

Dan.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Ned on March 03, 2008, 12:47 PM
Agree with Dave & Dan.  Get an MFK700 to Brice for review.

Ned


Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Terp on March 03, 2008, 12:54 PM
I've been edge trimming with my routers for years & never needed such a device.  I worked in a big shop in the early 90's & first saw this method I use.  We produced alot of commercial millwork, & the countertops often had wooden edges, no matter what the surface.
  When I got there they had an old & large rockwell router (pre portercable, think about the 3 1/4 hp fixed base PC router in silver, with no plastic).  It was in it's original fixed base which was fastened to a double sub base plate.  The upper most base plate was a full base plate which extended away from one side of the router about 12".  To the underside of this base plate was a second 1/2" thick plate that only extended away from the bit & doubled up theextension of the top plate.  Now to look at the underside of the router base, you'll see thescond base is triangle shaped under the router itself, & partially surrrounds the cutter. This leaves the cutter, protruding through the top most base plate, exposed about 240 degrees or so.
  A handle is added to the top of this sub base next to the fixed base, but out on the extension.  This base is total  maybe 3/4" thick.
  To use it you must first adjust a 1"diam.  end mill type cutter (or a large diam. plunge bit) in your router to just kiss a piece of paper set under the router (not the base plate).  Next place the router on your counter top & proceed to trim down the exposed edges, a papers thickness away from the surface.
  This works very well in that the cutter action in relation to the grain of the edge is optimal.  If you cut from the side with a rotating cutter you'll tear up the grain. That sucks :P.  With the router on top but cutting with the underside of the cutter, you'll get perfect results.  Plastic laminate on the bottom of the sub base is a good way to always move smoothly about with the router.
  I only use a card scraper to clean off the machine marks, a good end mill cutter in your router will leave few, & there is no grain tear out ever.  I saw a great cutter for this in the eagle catalog I just got recently.  They even described it as such.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 03, 2008, 12:56 PM
Agree with Dave & Dan.  Get an MFK700 to Brice for review.

Ned




  Hey, why stop at the MFK 700, what about the folks who'd like to see me review the other new tools, we can't leave them out. Reviewing new tools is a tough job but somebody has to do it.  ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 03, 2008, 01:04 PM
Brice, I agree that it is a very tough job and so ONLY to lighten your load I am offering to review the Kapex.  ;) I will set it up right along my Makita LS1013 and give it a real work out. You are of course welcome in advance for my thoughtfulness of your heavy load.  ;D :o ::) ;) Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brad Evans on March 03, 2008, 01:22 PM
At that price it's a very low priority. It does look neat though. If I was more of a tool-acquirer type I'd go for it...
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dave Ronyak on March 03, 2008, 02:16 PM
Good Morning,
Following up on the success of the MFT3 discussion (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2264.0), I realized it would be a good idea to post an open-ended thread on each new tool release, where we can collect member opinions, questions, and feedback in one place.  This does not have to be the only place we discuss the tool, but it can help bring our thoughts together.  After the tool is released, these discussions can make future searches on the forum more productive.

This discussion is for the MFK 700 Modular Router.  View Festool's MFK 700 Micro Website (http://mfk700.festoolusa.com/).

So, what are your questions, interests, opinions, and suggestions on the MFK 700?

Festool is listening!

Matthew

Matthew,

I'm glad you started this thread.  I have not been able to access the MFK 700 "mini-site" or any of the other mini-sites set up by Festool through the links given in the latest edition of sysnotes.

Dave R.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tvgordon on March 03, 2008, 05:23 PM
Yea, I was surprised to see that the trim router is going to sell for more than the larger 1010 and 1400 plunge routers.

Tom.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Terp on March 03, 2008, 05:38 PM
It's not a trim router.  It's a gadget & a trick.  Designed to get your tax refund check.  Be strong  ;)

  IMO, trim routers should cost about $150.00 tops.  I think it's the literal translation of "trim router",.... one hundred & fifty dollars.  You can look it up in the book of literal translations.  ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Eli on March 04, 2008, 03:15 AM
A trim router is the guy who hangs out right on the edge of a VIP lounge in a club and only lets drunk twins through the velvet rope.  ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Terp on March 04, 2008, 10:47 AM
Now that's a dream job ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on March 13, 2008, 12:54 AM
Hi all,

How would you like a first rate horizontal router that easily mounts on the side of the new or the old MFT and can cut everything from male sliding dovetails to edge profiles with great dust collection?  How about one 8mm bolt 25mm long, a washer and nut as the only mounting hardware needed with no modification to the router itself?  How about screwing in US standard guide bushings perfectly centered for use on dovetail jigs, the MFS and just about any inlay template?  How about a perfect fit on Keller, Kehoe, Kattie, Gifkins and most every other dovetail jig that uses bearing guided bits instead of guide bushings?  (I don't yet have the proper guide bushings for the VS-600 but it looks like a natural there too).  How about very low noise and almost no vibration?  Oh yes, it also is a really good trim router.  Welcome to the MFK 700!  I have just scratched the surface on this surprising gem and am blown away by how small, light weight and capable it is.  I think it may become the sleeper in the line of Festool offerings once more people actually get it in their hands and use it for things way beyond "just" trim routing. 

I doubt if the designers actually intended for it to be so easily mounted to the sides of the MFTs for use as a horizontal router, but they provided an as yet undocumented perfect 8mm mounting hole just outboard of the depth lock knob on the standard vertical base.  Insert an 8mm bolt through that hole and into the side "T" slot, add a washer and nut and it tightens perfectly against the edge.  You can rotate it in a wide arc to put the bit in just about any position below or above the table top that you need.  There also is a handy cast in ramp on the side of the base that makes it easy to slide any one of the stops that fit into the "T" track up against that ramp when the bit is in the correct position that will lock it there.  Screw scrap wood against that same side with 8mm bolts in the "T" track to make a larger, taller or wider fence.  It all takes less time to do than to describe.  The DC port sticks conveniently up at just the right angle, the on-off switch and speed control are right in front of you.  Couldn't have been designed better for this use.

The new MFT is even better than the old for this purpose as there is greater depth below the top of the table and down to the top of the side "V" track so a greater range of bits will fit in that space without impacting on the aluminum.  There is room in the adjustment arc to even place a false top on top of the MFT surface and still have good bit adjustment so you can make all kinds of fence, table, holddown fixtures if you need them.  If I sound excited about this, I am.  More as I get time to really wring this thing out.

Jerry
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on March 13, 2008, 01:06 AM
Oh, and I forgot to mention that you can loosen one thumb screw and the body lifts right off from the base while it is still mounted on the side of the MFT so changing bits is really fast and easy with this set up.  Bit depth adjustment range is about 16mm and can be easily adjusted in sub 1mm increments so that is more than enough for most dovetail, inlay and edging work.  More as I learn more. 

Jerry
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dan Clark on March 13, 2008, 08:40 AM
Jerry,

If I may drop a subtle hint...

(http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain/albums/userpics/WorthlessWithOutPics.gif)

Or, perhaps...  No pics; didn't happen!   ;D

Have a nice day,

Dan.
(Resident picture cop)

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: CharlesWilson on March 13, 2008, 08:56 AM
Dan,

I am sure that Jerry just provided a teaser, and pictures will follow.

Charles
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Daviddubya on March 13, 2008, 12:20 PM
In trying to put the cost of the MFK700 into perspective, I did an analysis (it is the engineer in me).  All of these prices are AFTER the 4/1/08 price incerase.

MFK700 Kit with 2 bases, Zero Degree Horizontal Base and Edge Guide - $701.50
OF1010EQ, Edge Guiide, Fine Adjustment and 4 accessories for edge routing - $568.00
OF1400EQ, Edge Guide, Guide Stop and 4 accessories for edge routing - $733.50

If a person already owns the OF1010EQ or OF1400EQ, the 4 accessories for edge routing cost $156.00.

Some differences between the MFK700 and the OF1010EQ/OF1400EQ are:

1/2" collet only on the OF1400EQ
MFK700 is not a plunge router, the other two are plunge routers.
MFK700 is lighter than OF1010EQ, and much lighter than the OF1400EQ
MFK700 has no guide rail attachment, the other two do

While none of these routers is perfect for everything, they all have some similar capabilities, with unique characteristics for each one.  A home-based woodworker could probably get along quite well with only one of these routers.

In my case, I have the OF1400EQ plus a 3 base PC kit, 3 trim routers and a router table.  One does seem to collect routers over time!  I am considering selling all of the hand-held routers except the OF1400EQ and buying the MFK700 or the edge routing accessories for the OF1400EQ.  Obviously adding the edge routing kit to the OF1400EQ is the economical way to go, but...   Decisions, decisions.  Hopefully this information will help some folks.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on March 13, 2008, 12:59 PM
Hi David,

I agree with your assessment but think the zero degree horizontal base for the 700 would be needed only for very special situations for most, so would take the price of that gizmo out of your analysis.  That said, your conclusions hold.  Any one of the routers will serve many purposes and circumstances. 

The question that I am asked most is how to cut male sliding dovetails.  For that, a horizontal router jig is the best and safest method especially for larger work pieces.  The jig I outline in Appendix A of the "Getting the most from the Festool MFS System" manual works well for the 1000/1010 routers and could be adapted for the 1400 as well.  But the ease of one bolt mounting of the 700 to the side of a MFT with no modification to the router at all is really compelling if you do very much cutting of male DTs and other edge work like I do with so much demand for rail, stile and panel designs. 

I like the simple straight profile on the grove side of the rails and stiles and always chamfer the edges at 45 degrees for a finished look and better feel.  There is a really slick little bit designed for edge trim work that features a wide bearing guide, a flat inline cutter to finish that face and a 45 degree bevel to cut the chamfer at the same time.  By mounting the 700 horizontally on the side of the new MFT3 that bit clears the top of the aluminum side extrusion with the guide bearing flush with the MFT3 top.   The bearing supports the portion of the rail and stile pieces (usually 50mm by 20mm in my standard) that overhand the top of the MFT3 while the edge is flushed with the base plate on the 700 router.  Voila!  Instant chamfer machine.

Turn one thumb screw and the router comes loose from the base.  Change to the dovetail bit, make one simple height adjustment and cut your male sliding dovetails on the finished rail, stile and panel components.  Take everything to the finish room, do the finish work in the flat, then simply slide the pieces together to form the completed furniture piece.

I just finished an interesting new wine sales counter and a companion display table for the largest winery in Oregon - Bridgeview.  The sales counter is made entirely from rail, stile and panel components that simply slid together for final assembly.  Rails and stiles in highly Oregon big leaf maple and panels in book matched flame redwood burl.  The whole thing could have been transported flat and assembled on site, but I don't do site work so it is easier for me to assemble in my own studio and transport the assembled piece.  Either way, I know of no faster means to a really stunning furniture piece and the 700 hanging on the edge of the MFT3 (or the previous style MFT) is the fastest and best way I know to do the chamfer and male SD work on such pieces.

I have 700, 1000, 1010, 1400 and 2200 Festool routers plus a PC monster in a router table and an equally monster Bosch unit for garbage work, so have the luxury to select the one best suited for each task.  Prior to the 700 I mounted the 1000 or 1010 on the side of a MFT to cut the male SDs for large assemblies.  Now it is no question that becomes the domain of the 700.  For the hobbyist or professional without the luxury, the ROI justification, or the budget to afford all four, the choice becomes tougher.  My answer to the which ONE router is "best" remains the 1400, but the 700 has now entered the "best" recommendation for those who do (or want to do) a lot of rail, stile and panel or other edge routing work.  I think it will rapidly moving up the "best" recommendation list for those who use dovetail jigs but more on that when I have time to go hands on with all the DT jigs in my studio and learn the limits in each of these applications.

Jerry

PS - I know the no pics cops will ticket me for this post (grin) but I will get pics posted on my web site in appropriate places when I get a few minutes to do so this weekend.  Since I need to post them there anyway, it is faster and easier for me to give a URL ref than to resize and attach the pics here as well.  I have yet to master that seemingly simple task.


In trying to put the cost of the MFK700 into perspective, I did an analysis (it is the engineer in me).  All of these prices are AFTER the 4/1/08 price incerase.

MFK700 Kit with 2 bases, Zero Degree Horizontal Base and Edge Guide - $701.50
OF1010EQ, Edge Guiide, Fine Adjustment and 4 accessories for edge routing - $568.00
OF1400EQ, Edge Guide, Guide Stop and 4 accessories for edge routing - $733.50

If a person already owns the OF1010EQ or OF1400EQ, the 4 accessories for edge routing cost $156.00.

Some differences between the MFK700 and the OF1010EQ/OF1400EQ are:

1/2" collet only on the OF1400EQ
MFK700 is not a plunge router, the other two are plunge routers.
MFK700 is lighter than OF1010EQ, and much lighter than the OF1400EQ
MFK700 has no guide rail attachment, the other two do

While none of these routers is perfect for everything, they all have some similar capabilities, with unique characteristics for each one.  A home-based woodworker could probably get along quite well with only one of these routers.

In my case, I have the OF1400EQ plus a 3 base PC kit, 3 trim routers and a router table.  One does seem to collect routers over time!  I am considering selling all of the hand-held routers except the OF1400EQ and buying the MFK700 or the edge routing accessories for the OF1400EQ.  Obviously adding the edge routing kit to the OF1400EQ is the economical way to go, but...   Decisions, decisions.  Hopefully this information will help some folks.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on March 13, 2008, 01:41 PM
The slick router bit I mentioned for chamfering in the previous post is 491-026.

Jerry
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jesse Cloud on March 13, 2008, 02:28 PM
Thanks for the upate on the 700 Jerry!  Sounds really exciting.  A smaller router for the VS600 would be very appealing.

Hope this means there is a Jerry Work manual coming.

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 13, 2008, 03:14 PM
Jerry, what a beautiful analysis of the dovetail portion of the 700. I had already decided to purchase it but I love when I get real world reasons that back up my decision. Like Jesse mentioned I also hope that you will be writing a manual or something similar for the 700. Thank you again, Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Daviddubya on March 13, 2008, 04:36 PM
Hi David,

I agree with your assessment but think the zero degree horizontal base for the 700 would be needed only for very special situations for most, so would take the price of that gizmo out of your analysis....

Jerry - While few of us have had an opportunity to work with the MFK700, you are fortunate to have had that opportunity.  Your insight is valuable.  I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the zero degree horizontal base would be the preferred base to use when trimming the top edge of a 3/4" (20mm in your case) hardwood edge flush with a panel.  I also assumed the 1.5 degree base would be used for flush trimming thin or veneer edging.  Am I correct?  What are the other situations where one horizontal base is used (needed) over the other?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tvgordon on March 13, 2008, 05:17 PM
I still haven't decided if I should buy the trim router or not.  I already have 7 routers (none of them Festool routers though), so I'm not sure how much use this router would get.  Plus the fact that is sells for more than two of the plunge routers - maybe I should get the 1400 - no, maybe the 1010.  Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Tom.
 
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Daviddubya on March 13, 2008, 06:00 PM
I've been edge trimming with my routers for years & never needed such a device.  I worked in a big shop in the early 90's & first saw this method I use.  We produced alot of commercial millwork, & the countertops often had wooden edges, no matter what the surface.
  When I got there they had an old & large rockwell router (pre portercable, think about the 3 1/4 hp fixed base PC router in silver, with no plastic).  It was in it's original fixed base which was fastened to a double sub base plate.  The upper most base plate was a full base plate which extended away from one side of the router about 12".  To the underside of this base plate was a second 1/2" thick plate that only extended away from the bit & doubled up theextension of the top plate.  Now to look at the underside of the router base, you'll see thescond base is triangle shaped under the router itself, & partially surrrounds the cutter. This leaves the cutter, protruding through the top most base plate, exposed about 240 degrees or so.
  A handle is added to the top of this sub base next to the fixed base, but out on the extension.  This base is total  maybe 3/4" thick.
  To use it you must first adjust a 1"diam.  end mill type cutter (or a large diam. plunge bit) in your router to just kiss a piece of paper set under the router (not the base plate).  Next place the router on your counter top & proceed to trim down the exposed edges, a papers thickness away from the surface.
  This works very well in that the cutter action in relation to the grain of the edge is optimal.  If you cut from the side with a rotating cutter you'll tear up the grain. That sucks :P.  With the router on top but cutting with the underside of the cutter, you'll get perfect results.  Plastic laminate on the bottom of the sub base is a good way to always move smoothly about with the router.
  I only use a card scraper to clean off the machine marks, a good end mill cutter in your router will leave few, & there is no grain tear out ever.  I saw a great cutter for this in the eagle catalog I just got recently.  They even described it as such.

Terp - I also have used the method you described for flush trimming edging material flat to the top surface of a panel.  The jig I made is a "Flush Trimming Baseplate" from the book, "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton.  I have an old Porter Cable 7310 trim router permanently mounted in the jig with a 1" straight bit with bottom cutters.  The PC7310 is especially difficult to set the cutting depth of a bit, so dedicating it to the flush trim jig works for me.  Pat Warner makes a "Vertical Trim Subbase" for several name-brand routers as an alternative to making one:

http://www.patwarner.com/vertical_trim_subbase.html

This setup works well,  but I expect the MFK700 will work as well or better.  Then again, it should for the price, eh?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dave Rudy on March 14, 2008, 09:17 AM
Well, I got the chance to look at and check out visually, but not test drive the 700 on Monday, at a top secret, undisclosed location (No, I did not have to leave the United States). 

Mine is on order.  After what Jerry said I cannot wait to get it in my hands.  I decided after thinking through it some more, that having the 1400 and the 700 should cover the bases.  Instead of getting a smaller and lighter plunge router, the 700 makes the most sense for me.  Without the 700 in the lineup, there are many reasons for a 1400 owner to consider adding the 1010 to the group.  I may yet conclude that I should do so (in addition to the 700).  But for now I have been delighted with the 1400, and never thought it too heavy or difficult to control (I did have that reaction to the 2000 on a couple of occasions, so mainly it sat in its systainer until I sold it).  I missed the 1010 mostly for edge-treatments.  I believe that with the 700 I won't need anything else for edge treatments, but time will tell.

Anyway, Bob (who was that masked man, anyway?) has my order in hand.

One thought about prices:  it seems to me that with the dollar going through the floor, Festool has held prices and contained increases amazingly well on previously available tools.  One thing we should expect though, is that as new tools or new models come online, prices are going to go up simply to reflect the economic realities of trading with a European company in the current monetary world.  Can you blame the manufacturer?  And as some of friends from other parts of the world have noted, we still have a good deal compared with what buyers are paying in Europe, for example (I think that in Australia Anthony gives all the tools away for free, but maybe I'm just romanticizing).  It doesn't seem like a good deal because while we were sleeping, we traded some higher quality precision goods designed and manufactured well for some mostly Chinese-made lesser quality tools that seemed like a relative bargain.  Focused on the bargain, I think we lost perspective on what the declining dollar meant to future high-quality purchases.  Our purchasing power has gone through the floor, but it wasn't so apparent in stuff coming from cheap markets.   There are people to blame, but Festool management isn't among them.   ??? ???  ::)  :o

Rant over.


Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: clintholeman on March 14, 2008, 09:49 AM
Dave-

Rant or no, I think you are spot on about the value issue.  Next time someone buys only on price, it will likely be a cheap Chinese part, or tool, or?  [most anything].  We've traded a whole lot of our core businesses in manufacturing for cheap goods.  We, as a society, IMO, would rather buy a whole bunch of less than good quality for cheap, forgetting about value.

Rant over.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 14, 2008, 11:04 AM
Dave and Clint, PLEASE rant away. ;D This is a huge issue for me and has been for a long time. I do not understand why anyone buys quantity instead of quality. Yes the upfront cost can be prohibitive at times but especially with tools the cost factor of buying cheaply hits in so many different ways. Aside from the obvious cost of having to often repeatedly replace that tool you also have the situation when your new cheap poorly made  tool breaks you can have the cost of fixing or replacing your workpiece due to the tool leaving burn marks, chatter, poor cuts, etc. In the case of most of the Festool tools you also have the tremendous benefit of very little excess dust which our lungs and significant others very much appreciate. :D Why anyone would go through all of this when you can spend a little or even a lot extra upfront and have a tool that works correctly and leaves you free to spend your extra time completing your job on a timely basis is absolutely beyond me.

Now this is assuming that the user knows what he or she is doing. So, if you are like me you may still be spending time cleaning up mistakes but at least the tool feels and looks great.  ;) :D ;D :o Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dan Clark on March 14, 2008, 12:00 PM
Buying quality for the things that you will use and depend on is almost always a good proposition.   As an example...

About 25 years ago when I wore sport coats regularly (and was single), I went into my favorite men's shop in Framingham, MA and saw a $200 sport coat on sale for 50% off!   Great buy!  Well, maybe the style wasn't quite right.  And the quality was only "decent".  And the fit wasn't perfect.   And the color was just a bit off.  But, hey...  It was a GREAT deal!  So I bought it.

For the next year, when I was going somewhere or to work, I'd try on that new sport coat, look in the mirror, and think "Hmmm...  It doesn't look quite right today."   I'd take it off and wear something else.   In that year, I wore it exactly three times!  Cost per wearing: $33.

Then, I decided "This is BS!!!  I need a decent sport coat!"   So off I went to downtown Boston.   I went into a very nice store just off the Boston Gardens that sold Hickey Freeman and Burberrys stuff.  I spotted a nice Burberrys sport coat and tried it on.   

It was AWESOME!   A lovely combination of silk, wool, and linen.  Off the rack it fit almost perfectly!  Then I looked at the price...  $400!   FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!  :o :o :o  Whoa, that was WAY too expensive.   And then...

A very attractive woman shopper walked past and said, "Nice coat.  It fits perfectly.   Are  you picking it up now!"  (Remember, I had just grabbed it off the rack.)   My jaw dropped and I thought, "Hmmm.... Hot honey thinks I look good in this coat.   Maybe it IS worth $400."  So of course, I bought this outrageously expensive sport coat.

Over the next five years, I wore that coat at least twice a week.   I wore it so much that I had to have the lining replaced.   (Even though I've gained too much weight to wear it today, it still sits in my closet.  And STILL looks awesome.)  My average cost per wearing for that coat was less than $1.

So which coat was more expensive?  The $100 one or the $400 one?  Which tool is more expensive, the $100 cheapie that doesn't work well and breaks down or the $500 tool that keeps working, and makes you look and feel good?!?

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., maybe the hot honeys will not admire your Festool tools, but at least you will.  ;D

p.p.s, in case you think it's just a story...
[attachthumb=1]
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 14, 2008, 12:04 PM
Dan, WHAT I have droves of women coming through my shop and swooning when they see the Festools. You don't?? ;) :D ;D :o Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dan Clark on March 14, 2008, 12:10 PM
Dan, WHAT I have droves of women coming through my shop and swooning when they see the Festools. You don't?? ;) :D ;D :o Fred
Fred,

My wife swoons when she looks at my Festools.  Uhmm...  To be precise, it's when she sees the Festool invoice.  :o

Dan.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 14, 2008, 12:20 PM
Dan, far better to show the results of the Festool and not the invoice. ;) ;D A lesson learned the hard way here. ;) Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Ned on March 14, 2008, 12:48 PM
A very attractive woman shopper walked past and said, "Nice coat.  It fits perfectly.   Are  you picking it up now!" 

Wrong picture.  As you say, without pictures, didn't happen.   :D :D :D

Did you realize at the time that the "woman shopper" was a store employee?   :D :D :D

I had a sportcoat like that.  Got amazing amounts of interest from the fair sex.  I was afraid to have it cleaned, fearing that whatever it had would be washed out...

Ned
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 14, 2008, 01:18 PM
  Dave, you're right, the declining dollar isn't Festool fault. It is, however, their problem, how they handle this problem is going to decide their future here. Continuing to raise already high prices will likely push them out of the market (here). It doesn't matter what Festool products cost in the rest of the world, if they become unaffordable here, that is all I care about. I'm not blaming Festool (I don't think anyone really is) and I'm not complaining, the situation is what it is. Festool has an uphill battle on their hands, the conditions aren't great with the declining dollar, slowing economy and the increasing cost of production. I don't foresee a big change in the conditions coming anytime soon, so the change is going to have to come from Festool.

  I have a good handle on the value of tools, I sink or swim on tool buying decisions. The building and remodeling is slowing down and we in the trades are feeling it where it matters, in our bank accounts. So I think you can understand why we are concerned about the cost of tools. Fred, Festool's competition isn't as bad as you are making them out to be. I moved towards Festool tools because of the value, where the prices are headed the value may flip back to the less expensive tool. And if it does, I will walk away from Festool just as fast as I went to them. Not out of spite, but for my survival in the trades. Festool's future is in professionals using their tools, not the hobbyists, they know that. It is our perception of the value (of Festool products) that will determine their growth. My perception is changing.

  As I said, I'm not complaining or assigning blame, nor am I am offering solutions. Part of the reason for this forum existence is to give users a voice, I'm letting my voice be heard thats all.

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 14, 2008, 01:22 PM
Brice, I am not fooling myself as to the competition as I have many other brand name tools and love them as well. However they do not have the system nor anywhere near the dust collection ability. As would you I too would walk away if the price became prohibitive or the quality diminished. Otherwise I still stand by my comments. Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: festeringtool on March 14, 2008, 01:43 PM
I think we are already there..... the prices are outrageous now!!

There are a lot of good tools out there that don't cost the earth but I admit they don't have the pretty boxes and the colour scheme won't match....

Some of us buy tools to do a job - others buying the tools seems to be the hobby!

Festering
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 14, 2008, 01:49 PM
Brice, I am not fooling myself as to the competition as I have many other brand name tools and love them as well. However they do not have the system nor anywhere near the dust collection ability. As would you I too would walk away if the price became prohibitive or the quality diminished. Otherwise I still stand by my comments. Fred

  Fred, sorry, that was a poor choice of words on my part. I'll edit my earlier post. However you are talking about the worst case, most (not all) tools preformed better that you make them seem in your post. One more thing, the  competition is designing their new tools to be more like Festool's everyday. This diminishes some of Festool's uniqueness and value. And sorry again.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: bruegf on March 14, 2008, 01:51 PM
That's the beauty of a hobby - you don't have to justify the cost, you just do it because you want to, but its definitely different when it's your livelihood.

Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jim Kirkpatrick on March 14, 2008, 01:53 PM
 Dave, you're right, the declining dollar isn't Festool fault. It is, however, their problem, how they handle this problem is going to decide their future here. Continuing to raise already high prices will likely push them out of the market (here). It doesn't matter what Festool products cost in the rest of the world, if they become unaffordable here, ...



Brice,  I too, am counting the days until  they start knockin these things off in Taiwan!
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 14, 2008, 01:57 PM
I think we are already there..... the prices are outrageous now!!

There are a lot of good tools out there that don't cost the earth but I admit they don't have the pretty boxes and the colour scheme won't match....

Some of us buy tools to do a job - others buying the tools seems to be the hobby!

Festering

  Fester, the prices are high, but like Dan said, its the value that matters. I find my Festool products to be an asset the my work. Most of them have provided a return on my investment in a short time. And as I already made clear, it is the future I'm looking at.


Brice,  I too, am counting the days until the day they start knockin these things off in Taiwan!

Well if they provide a better value, I'll buy them.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dovetail65 on March 14, 2008, 02:42 PM
That's the beauty of a hobby - you don't have to justify the cost, you just do it because you want to, but its definitely different when it's your livelihood.

Fred

A lot of guys I have worked with do not like working with tools at all if they are not getting paid. I am lucky that it is my livelihood AND my hobby. So it's really easy to justify the expense!
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: clintholeman on March 14, 2008, 03:28 PM
It isn't only FesTools that are going up in price.  Anything made overseas is going up at the same rate and domestic products are not the victim of stagflation.

It is everyone's problem - not only FesTool.  A router bit that last year cost me $40, this year is almost $50 and it has nothing to do with FesTool.

From what I've read, it is likely going to be a long time getting over, if ever.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 14, 2008, 03:56 PM
It isn't only FesTools that are going up in price.  Anything made overseas is going up at the same rate and domestic products are not the victim of stagflation.

It is everyone's problem - not only FesTool.  A router bit that last year cost me $40, this year is almost $50 and it has nothing to do with FesTool.

From what I've read, it is likely going to be a long time getting over, if ever.

  Clint, you are absolutely right, the prices are going up on all products. That's why I have to be more careful how I spend me money. I have to have the $50 router bit, not necessarily the $700 edge trimming router, this is where Festool is going to be hurt.

  Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to take a close look at the new Festool products. Since my phone isn't ringing off the hook for work, I need to think long and hard before I buy.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: festeringtool on March 14, 2008, 04:10 PM
And as the competition bites in this market the less precious brands will fight it out for market share making the gap even bigger between Festool and rest.......
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Fred West on March 14, 2008, 04:17 PM
Brice, no offense taken at all and I was actually glad to be able to word my answer a little bit better. Fred
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tallgrass on March 14, 2008, 04:23 PM
well as i have said else where in the forum i am a festool fanatic of the highest order. :) having said that, i just can not see the 700 being a good buy. i think i can get 2 1010s and set them up with trim router setups for just a little more than one 700 with the trimmings. i can not see how a 700 can compete with 2 1010s. i can set up  one for the top and the other one for the side ,and go from there. i just can not see the 700 have more capacity than 2 1010s. i have seen the 700 and it is nice but i still cannot get over the no visibility of it in comparison to the 1010. i think the 700 should cost less than 1010. festool is getting my money for the table and the big router but i just can not think the 700 makes sense and i am trying real hard. ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: porkchop on March 14, 2008, 05:41 PM
for super light stuff like edge trimming I have to admit to owning a small herd of super cheap ryobi routers. I just leave them set up for specific tasks and color code them so I don't toss the wrong one in the bag. I hate fidgeting with little trimmers and they get abused and dirty so I go cheap. Usually it's just a small flush cut bit or small edge treatment bit that is used the same way everytime. Sorry festool. I own most of the other festools but don't think I will buy this one. I'm sure lots of others will love it. If I see it at a demo/in person and it seems really good I will rethink.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 14, 2008, 05:52 PM
for super light stuff like edge trimming I have to admit to owning a small herd of super cheap ryobi routers. I just leave them set up for specific tasks and color code them so I don't toss the wrong one in the bag. I hate fidgeting with little trimmers and they get abused and dirty so I go cheap. Usually it's just a small flush cut bit or small edge treatment bit that is used the same way everytime. Sorry festool. I own most of the other festools but don't think I will buy this one. I'm sure lots of others will love it. If I see it at a demo/in person and it seems really good I will rethink.

I have a cheap Rigid edge trimmer, not bad for an edge trimmer, but I have pretty much stopped using it. I now use my 1010 with the edge accessories. I'm interested in seeing it in person. The good news is we should be seeing reviews soon, I'll be them checking out closely.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tvgordon on March 14, 2008, 06:14 PM
Brice,

As a hobbyist, I wish I got a 10% raise to cover the price increases.  I can just add to my collection a little slower than I had wished.  I had not considered that you guys who earn a living with the tools might have a little more trouble justifying the price increases when work slows down.  And you're right, there are many quality tools out there that are less than half the cost of Festool.  While they may lack some of the features and high quality "feel" to them, they are capable of getting the job done.

Tom.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jim Dailey on March 14, 2008, 06:18 PM
I have been following the various posts on this new trim router and I agree with a lot of what's been said here on the FOG about this new router.  But one point although it is a trim router many are assuming it's target market is other trim routers like PC, DeWalt, Bosch & others in a $100 to $200 price range.  I think this new offering is designed to go toe to toe with the three Lamello's routers that the price of any one of the Lamello's is near the MFK 700.  

http://www.lamello.com/en/products/special-power-tools/laminate-trimmer.html
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/special-power-tools/flush-milling-machine.html
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/special-power-tools/edge-milling-machine.html

The approach Festool used however is a single motor with multiple bases going at the professional laminate & cabinet makers.

For me the MFK 700 is too expensive...

jim

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Daviddubya on March 14, 2008, 07:21 PM
...i think i can get 2 1010s and set them up with trim router setups for just a little more than one 700 with the trimmings. i can not see how a 700 can compete with 2 1010s....

tallgrass - Not intending to be argumentative, but...  Using the post-April 1 prices, the OF1010EQ is $360.00.  Add the edge routing accessories for $156.00 and the cost is $516.00.  The MFK700 kit includes the router and two bases, a comparable configuration, for a cost of $510.  Therefore, the MFK700 is just about the same price as one OF1010EQ.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tallgrass on March 15, 2008, 02:09 AM
do not worry about arguing with me i thought the 700 cost over 700 dollars with the needed goodies.....i could be wrong.....500ish seems a little better......but still i think the 700 should be cheaper than 1010? thoughts?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tallgrass on March 15, 2008, 02:59 AM
i also did not add the price increase to the 1010 :-\
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Daviddubya on March 15, 2008, 10:25 AM
do not worry about arguing with me i thought the 700 cost over 700 dollars with the needed goodies.....i could be wrong.....500ish seems a little better......but still i think the 700 should be cheaper than 1010? thoughts?

The MFK700 is over $700 with ALL of the goodies.  The edge guide is an accessory for both routers.  There are two horizontal bases for the MFK700, and you might not "need" both.  The 1.5 degree horizontal base comes with the kit.  You can buy the router by itself and buy the vertical and zero degree horizontal bases as accessories.  I configured both routers about the same - with two bases, one vertical and one horizontal.

The OF1010EQ is a plunge router with guide rail capabilities, and the Guide Stop (rail adapter) comes with the router.  If I had neither, I'd be inclined to buy the OF1010EQ, edge guide and edge routing accessories for versatility.  The MFK700 is smaller and lighter and should be easier to handle, although everyone says the OF1010EQ is easy to handle.  It's an academic argument in my case - I have the OF1400EQ already.  I think most people would conclude that you don't need both the MFK700 and the OF1010EQ.  Seems to me the OF1400EQ and the MFK700 are a super pair though.  I can sell 4 routers and have that pair and be happy - one of them is already on Craig's List.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tallgrass on March 15, 2008, 02:53 PM
 i have the 2000 the 1400 and the 1010, and soon the the new one, each one is great in its own area with a certain amount of overlap. each one is perfect for some things but from what i have seen of the 700 it does not seem to be a good small router, but a great trim router. i will admit i did not get to play with the 700 that much before it got put back under raps >:(. it is a great trim router that is for sure. i have done a great deal of work with the 1010 and i just do not see a great deal of over lap between the two. i have been surprised with the capacity of the 1010 and how handy it is. i am sure though 700 is great at trim routing, which it is, so well done, i still think it is expensive for a trim router.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Daviddubya on March 15, 2008, 06:28 PM
...i still think it is expensive for a trim router.

There is disputing that point!  The same can be said for other tools in the Festool lineup, but...  Some of us just WANT one???  :)  If the MFK700 had guide rail capability it would be more attractive, at least to me.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dovetail65 on March 15, 2008, 06:39 PM
I totally agree Daviddubya. Why they did not integrate guide rail capability into the design on a new item I wonder about. For my work methods the guide rail in conjunction with the mft was the biggest factor for me jumping to Festool. It changed the entire way I make my projects. Is there no way to use it with the guide rail?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Corwin on March 15, 2008, 06:56 PM
I wish they would offer a plunge base that connected with the guide rail and LR32 plate.  That would be nice.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: tallgrass on March 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
if it had the guide connection like the 1010 that would be nice. ::) the sad point is that am sure i will own it eventually and sing its praises .....i think this is just part of m case of festoolitus.....at least i am not addicted to crack :-\
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: John Stevens on March 15, 2008, 11:53 PM
For the next year, when I was going somewhere or to work, I'd try on that new sport coat, look in the mirror, and think "Hmmm...  It doesn't look quite right today."   I'd take it off and wear something else.   In that year, I wore it exactly three times!  Cost per wearing: $33.

Dan, that was a great story.  When I was a kid, my dad told me a story almost exactly like that.  He used clothing as the example, but he was talking about much more.  Finished by saying, "you might as well take the cash and put a match to it" as he lit up another Pall Mall.  I never forgot it, and following that advice has worked every time.  I hope someone will read what you wrote, and it will stick with them, too.

Regards,

John
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on March 16, 2008, 11:25 AM
It is very easy to adapt the 700 for guide rail work.  No modification to the router needed.  The 700 has rod holes and thumb screws for attaching the edge guide.  Use those with the router stop for the 1010. 

The rod to rod spacing is wider than on the 700.  Drill two 8mm holes in a scrap piece of hard wood or UHMW.  Center the two holes the difference between the rod spacing on the 1010 and the 700.  Cut three pieces of 8mm rod (I cut down a spare set from my 1010 edge guide) to whatever length you want.  One will go from the 1010 stop to the 700.  One will go from the 1010 stop to the outer hole in your scrap piece.  The third will go from the 700 to the inner hole in your scrap piece.  Once you have the lengths properly adjusted to produce the edge of guide rail to bit center you want, epoxy the two pieces of rod into the scrap block.  Works like a charm.  The bottom of rod to bottom of 1010 stop is 1mm different from the bottom of rod to bottom of 700 but that does not effect ease of use. 

Set up this way the edge of guide rail to 700 bit center is 55mm or more when the base of the 700 runs on the work piece.  If you prefer to shorten the edge of guide rail to 700 bit center dimension to as little as 15mm by having the 700 run on the guide rail the way the other routers do, just cut two pieces of scrap UHMW to about 20mm wide by 4mm thick and use the existing screw holes on the bottom of the 700 to mount them outboard of the bit hole to keep the router from tipping.  Does the same thing as the outboard support on the 1010 and 1400.  While conventional wisdom says the guide rails are 5mm thick, mine all measure 4mm and 4mm makes the 700 run parallel with the surface of the work piece.

The 700 has more than enough power to make 10mm depth DT groves in the hardest woods without any need for precutting a straight grove first.

If you opt for having the 700 run on the surface of the work piece then you can set the bit depth once and cut the grove on the guide rail, then mount the base on the side of the MFT and cut the male at the same bit depth setting for a perfect fit.  Very slick, very fast and more accurate than setting the bit depth on a 1010 or 1400 router to cut the grove, then removing the bit and resetting it in another router either in a router table or in a horizontal router jig such as I described in Appendix A of the MFS manual.

The more I use it, the more I like this 700 router.  I will be adding pics showing all this to the tutorial section on my web site www.jerrywork.com later today or early next week.

Jerry


I totally agree Daviddubya. Why they did not integrate guide rail capability into the design on a new item I wonder about. For my work methods the guide rail in conjunction with the mft was the biggest factor for me jumping to Festool. It changed the entire way I make my projects. Is there no way to use it with the guide rail?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Ned on March 16, 2008, 12:10 PM
...The 700 has rod holes and thumb screws for attaching the edge guide. ...Drill two 8mm holes in a scrap piece of hard wood or UHMW.  Center the two holes the difference between the rod spacing on the 1010 and the 700.  Cut three pieces of 8mm rod (I cut down a spare set from my 1010 edge guide) to whatever length you want.

5/16 inch (7.94mm) rod will probably work fine in this situation. 

Ned
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Daviddubya on March 16, 2008, 12:59 PM
...The 700 has rod holes and thumb screws for attaching the edge guide.  Use those with the router stop for the 1010....Jerry

Interesting.  Thanks for the work-around, Jerry.  But don't you wonder why Festool did not offer a Guide Stop for the MFK700, since the rod holes and thumb screws are incorporated into the design?  Hmmm.  Maybe a future accessory?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 16, 2008, 01:38 PM


Interesting.  Thanks for the work-around, Jerry.  But don't you wonder why Festool did not offer a Guide Stop for the MFK700, since the rod holes and thumb screws are incorporated into the design?  Hmmm.  Maybe a future accessroy?

  Dave my guess is the 700's base is not made to work with the guide rail, meaning it is too small to sit on the rail, the long part of the 700's base would extend off the guide rail and offer no support. There is no outrigger/support foot.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Corwin on March 20, 2008, 11:30 PM
Dave my guess is the 700's base is not made to work with the guide rail, meaning it is too small to sit on the rail, the long part of the 700's base would extend off the guide rail and offer no support. There is no outrigger/support foot.

What if the support foot were to come attached to the future plunge base.  And a guide attachment too.  Well, I guy can hope.    ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on March 21, 2008, 10:27 AM
  Not to rain on the MFK 700 parade here, but is anyone else wondering why the rest of the world isn't raving about this router?? I think this will be a great tool with in a limited range of tasks. As an edge trimmer it will likely  be the best tool on the market, as an all purpose router I'm not sure. No visibility and a very little depth adjustment will limit its usefulness.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on March 21, 2008, 11:00 AM
Hi Brice,

I have to disagree with you a bit here.  While it is not an all purpose router, I find the 700 a most versatile unit well suited to many grooving and edge routing tasks.  But, where it really shines for me is as a dovetail cutter.  The built in threaded hole takes any US standard threaded guide bushing so it fits on many, if not most, dovetail jigs.  Light weight, good purchase and exceptionally good dust collection for a router.  But, where it simply is better than anything else I have used is for sliding dovetails. 

The simple, no modification required, guide rail adapter I described earlier allows you to set the router base either on the guide rail if you like the bit center close to the rubber edge or flat on the work piece if you don't mind the bit center further away.  If you route the female grove with the router set flat on the work piece, then you can quickly mount the 700 to the side of a MFT3 again with no modification required - just one 8mm bolt and nut - and easily, safely and quickly cut the male sliding dovetail without changing bit height for a perfect fit.  If you like the router to ride on the guide rail, a couple of 4mm strips screwed into the existing holes on the base keep it well supported on the outboard edge.  There is no tendency to tip.

I don't work on site very often, but if I did this set up would be with me everywhere.  In my studio it is in use daily.  You can do the same things with other Festool routers like the 1010 or 1400, it just requires a bit more work to build the horizontal routing jig, takes a bit more conversion time to go from guide rail routing to horizontal routing and a bit more time to change bits.  The collets are the same as for the 1010.  Power is adequate for any bit that will fit through the hole in the base.  Where the 700 is severely limited is depth of cut range is less than 20mm.  Since my standard calls for 10mm deep groves and tongues that is adequate range for those purposes and it is very fast to get it bang on since the micro adjust dial is marked in 0.1mm increments.

Jerry



  Not to rain on the MFK 700 parade here, but is anyone else wondering why the rest of the world isn't raving about this router?? I think this will be a great tool with in a limited range of tasks. As an edge trimmer it will likely be the best tool on the market, as an all purpose router I'm not sure. No visibility and a very little depth adjustment will limit its usefulness.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: jonny round boy on March 21, 2008, 03:32 PM
  Not to rain on the MFK 700 parade here, but is anyone else wondering why the rest of the world isn't raving about this router??

Because the MFK700 hasn't been around for very long over here, or anywhere for that matter. I think it's been available since around Nov last year. I've had a chance to handle one, but not to use one. Based on what I saw, I'd own one already if business was better, but it's very slow (virtually stationary!) at the moment, so money is very tight.

I think that it will excel at what it is designed to do, but I don't think the market for it is as big as a plunge router. Give it a few more months, and I'm sure someone (hopefully me!!!) will be raving about it...
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Robert Robinson on April 18, 2008, 05:26 AM
I think I want one for the sliding doves too. I can't see me holding a 4 foot tall plywood on edge, and running it down the router table. I think it will be one of those unique routers that will fill in alot of voids you typically would have on setting up any other router.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dovetail65 on April 18, 2008, 10:03 AM
"Where the 700 is severely limited is depth of cut range is less than 20mm. "

Jerry thanks for mentioning that, I missed that fact somehow. This will change my plans somewhat on the order I will purchase the routers.

Nickao
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Michael Kellough on April 18, 2008, 11:04 AM

The more I use it, the more I like this 700 router.  I will be adding pics showing all this to the tutorial section on my web site www.jerrywork.com later today or early next week.

Jerry


I can't find these pics, did you get a chance to upload them?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on April 18, 2008, 11:17 AM
Sadly not yet, Michael.  The best made plans and all that........  I will get to it but customers come first.

Jerry



The more I use it, the more I like this 700 router.  I will be adding pics showing all this to the tutorial section on my web site www.jerrywork.com later today or early next week.

Jerry


I can't find these pics, did you get a chance to upload them?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Scrit on April 22, 2008, 11:41 AM
It seems that the MFK 700 is a direct descendant of a NAINA router, the OFK 700, which has been around for a while.
The MFK700 is actually a direct descendent of the Holz-Her 2360 laminate trimmer, even down to the 0 and 1.5 degree bases, although Festool have made some changes (including a different motor). I've been using a 2360 professionally for nearly ten years now and it is without doubt an excellent machine for the task.

To the poster who asked about the different bases, it's normal to trim veneer and solid wood lippings at 90 degrees (i.e. with a 0 degree base). If you trim laminate edges at right angles by machine you end up with a beautifully sharpened knife, so laminate countertops, etc are normally edges at between 91.5 and 95 degrees. This corresponds to the angle you'd get when hand filing and is a trade-off between (lack of) sharpness and the smallest possible dark brown edge line you get with normal phenolic laminates such as Formica and Wilsonart. Sorry if that's restating the obvious

Not to rain on the MFK 700 parade here, but is anyone else wondering why the rest of the world isn't raving about this router??
Probably because it really isn't a router?

Scrit
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: CharlesWilson on April 22, 2008, 12:30 PM
The MFK700 is actually a direct descendent of the Holz-Her 2360 laminate trimmer

That's interesting. They will be one of the exhibitors at the New England Expo on May 2, 3. I will check them out.

Looks like most of the products on their website are a little bigger than a hand-held laminate trimmer.

Do they still provide parts/service for it?

Charles
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dave Ronyak on April 22, 2008, 01:21 PM

... I find the 700 a most versatile unit well suited to many grooving and edge routing tasks.  But, where it really shines for me is as a dovetail cutter.  The built in threaded hole takes any US standard threaded guide bushing so it fits on many, if not most, dovetail jigs.  Light weight, good purchase and exceptionally good dust collection for a router.  But, where it simply is better than anything else I have used is for sliding dovetails. 

... If you route the female grove with the router set flat on the work piece, then you can quickly mount the 700 to the side of a MFT3 again with no modification required - just one 8mm bolt and nut - and easily, safely and quickly cut the male sliding dovetail without changing bit height for a perfect fit.  If you like the router to ride on the guide rail, a couple of 4mm strips screwed into the existing holes on the base keep it well supported on the outboard edge.  There is no tendency to tip.

IJerry


Jerry, Irecently had an opportunity to see the MFK 700 router in action for edge trimming of wooden edge banding and plastic laminate countertops, but not any other applications.  I am very interested in creating a quick, repeatable setup for cutting the male portion of sliding dovetails on wood components.  I currently have an OF 1400 and many of the accessories offered for it, and other routers of similar or larger amperage, including a table mounted unit with a JoinTech fence machine  (similar to Inca for those who aren't familiar with JoinTech).  I'm very interested in acquiring or creating something that can be quickly setup to cut sliding dovetails with my MFT 1080 or MFT 800, not an MFT/3.   I also don't fully understand what your setup is for an MFT/3 to enable quick mounting of the MFK 700 in a horizontal spindle axis orientation for use with the MFT/3.  Is your setup a custom one you created, or does it use off-the-shelf components from Festool?

Thanks in advance for your response.

Dave R.

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Scrit on April 22, 2008, 06:27 PM
The MFK700 is actually a direct descendent of the Holz-Her 2360 laminate trimmer

That's interesting. They will be one of the exhibitors at the New England Expo on May 2, 3. I will check them out.

Looks like most of the products on their website are a little bigger than a hand-held laminate trimmer.

Do they still provide parts/service for it?
Almost no parts any longer. Holz-Her is/was the trading name of Wilhelm Reich who had two main divisions, power tools and static machinery (Festo once had at least three: electric/pneumatic power tools, industrial pneumatic fittings and static machinery). The static machinery division of Holz-Her is best known in the EU for wall saws, edge banders and CNC machines and is still going. The power tools division, which had manufactured drills for Bosch in the 1970s and 1980s (many of them also available in Holz-Her's distinctive orange or black/orange livery), also made tools for other firms in much the same way that Kress (http://www.kress-elektrik.de/en/index.phpKress) make power tools for others (such as Porter-Cable). I guess that when Bosch moved manufacturing over to Scintilla in Switzerland in the mid to late 1980s the power tools division lost a major chunk of their work. They were successful finding takers for their belt sanders though - that's why the Festool BS75 and BS105 belt sanders look so like the Holz-Her designs - when Reich folded the power tools division a few years back I'm told that Festool bought the factory. Collaboration between German tool and power tools firms is nothing new - the Festool OF1000 router is also packaged (albeit with a different base) as the Mafell OF50e, whilst the OF2000 router was/is made by Mafell..........  You also have to wonder how much if any of Holz-Her's innovative Mosquito plunge saw design is in the Festool plunge saws

Scrit
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on April 23, 2008, 12:08 PM
Hi Dave,

I did get time yesterday to put two new tutorials on my web site.  One is on the use of the OF-FS router saddle jig (aka plexiglas template) for cutting male SDs and the other on how to mount the Domino machine onto the sled of the 32mm shelf hole drilling system.  jerrywork.com > tutorials.  I will try to get the 700 tutorial up today if I can.

Now to answer your questions.  The beauty of the 700 is that NO MODIFICATIONS of any kind are required to mount the 700 as a horizontal router onto the side of the MFT3.  There is an as yet undocumented 8mm hole in the flat base of the 700 just below the height locking knob.  Place an 8 x 20mm bolt through that hole with the head sticking out the under side of the base and place a washer and nut on the threaded part of the bolt sticking through the top side of the base.  Slide the head of that 8mm bolt into the "T" track on the side of the MFT3.  The bolt forms a pivot point.  As you rotate the router up you raise the amount of the bit that sticks up above the surface of the MFT3.  That is how you set bit height.  Use the micro adjustment knob on the base of the 700 to set how far the bit projects out laterally from the base.  That will determine the distance from the edge of your work piece to the bottom of the cut with the work piece flat on the top of the MFT3.  Tighten the nut on the 8mm bolt and the unit is secure at your desired cut depth and height.  There is enough space between the top of the MFT3 and the "V" grove in the top of the side extrusion for any bit up to the max size the 700 can handle.

For male SDs you can use this set up just like this, or you can bolt a couple of scrap pieces either side of the router to form extra infeed and outfeed support faces.  Since the router base and these extra support faces (ie: fences) both register to the same side of the MFT3 they are automatically in the same plane.  In the tutorial I will show the shapes I use for those extra support faces which allow them to provide additional router height adjustment support and which make it easy to micro adjust bit height as well.

With a simple shop built guide rail stop made for the 700 (Festool does not now supply one) that allows the base of the 700 to ride directly on the surface of the work piece instead of on the guide rail - the tutorial shows how to do this - you can set the DT bit depth once, cut the female grove and then without changing anything mount that same base on the MFT3 and cut the male SD for a perfect fit.  Faster to do than to describe.

This is but one reason I am so high on the 700 router.  It is as though they designed it just for the way I work.  Hope this helps.

Jerry



... I find the 700 a most versatile unit well suited to many grooving and edge routing tasks.  But, where it really shines for me is as a dovetail cutter.  The built in threaded hole takes any US standard threaded guide bushing so it fits on many, if not most, dovetail jigs.  Light weight, good purchase and exceptionally good dust collection for a router.  But, where it simply is better than anything else I have used is for sliding dovetails. 

... If you route the female grove with the router set flat on the work piece, then you can quickly mount the 700 to the side of a MFT3 again with no modification required - just one 8mm bolt and nut - and easily, safely and quickly cut the male sliding dovetail without changing bit height for a perfect fit.  If you like the router to ride on the guide rail, a couple of 4mm strips screwed into the existing holes on the base keep it well supported on the outboard edge.  There is no tendency to tip.

IJerry


Jerry, Irecently had an opportunity to see the MFK 700 router in action for edge trimming of wooden edge banding and plastic laminate countertops, but not any other applications.  I am very interested in creating a quick, repeatable setup for cutting the male portion of sliding dovetails on wood components.  I currently have an OF 1400 and many of the accessories offered for it, and other routers of similar or larger amperage, including a table mounted unit with a JoinTech fence machine  (similar to Inca for those who aren't familiar with JoinTech).  I'm very interested in acquiring or creating something that can be quickly setup to cut sliding dovetails with my MFT 1080 or MFT 800, not an MFT/3.   I also don't fully understand what your setup is for an MFT/3 to enable quick mounting of the MFK 700 in a horizontal spindle axis orientation for use with the MFT/3.  Is your setup a custom one you created, or does it use off-the-shelf components from Festool?

Thanks in advance for your response.

Dave R.


Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: CharlesWilson on April 23, 2008, 01:34 PM
The beauty of the 700 is that NO MODIFICATIONS of any kind are required to mount the 700 as a horizontal router onto the side of the MFT3.

Yes, Jerry, you keep saying that, but fail to mention what modifications are required with MFT 'classic'. I know that the MFT3 surface sticks up higher than the 'classic'.  I have already made a little 'adjustment' to the top surface of one the sides of my MFT to accommodate using my OF1400 in the horizontal configuration (as per your MFS manual) with the 20mm dovetail bit.  Will I be removing more aluminum when I use the MFK700 in the horizontal mode?

Charles

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dave Ronyak on April 23, 2008, 02:35 PM
Thanks, Jerry, for your usual thorough and clearly written reply explaining how to connect the MFK 700 to the side rail of an MFT/3 to cut the male tenon of a sliding dovetail.

Can you describe how this can be done on an older generation MFT.  I think I and many others want to know how to best adapt the MFK 700 for production of the male tenon of a sliding dovetail with old generation MFT 1080 and MFT 800, or to understand why that is not possible.  If a thin sheet needs to be placed on top of an older MFT to enable matching of the height or to provide sufficient bit clearance when mounting an MFK 700 to the side facing channel in the side rail, that may actually be an advantage since the that auxiliary top can include a slick, low friction surface and won't be quickly abraded by sliding workpieces across it as can occur with an MFT top.  (I found this out unintentionally when moving some large workpieces I recently made and had to move about when routing, assembling and sanding them.  Before I realized what was happening I had created several gouges in the top of my MFT 1080 which I had previously protected from saw kerfs through use of a thin sheet of plywood.)

Dave R.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Eiji Fuller on April 23, 2008, 04:44 PM
Using Jerry's method of horizontal mounting of the MFK700 you will most likely be able to mount to a surface more appropriate for the task. (e.g. your router table or another laminate surface) I am very excited about this router and its versatility.

Eiji

Thanks, Jerry, for your usual thorough and clearly written reply explaining how to connect the MFK 700 to the side rail of an MFT/3 to cut the male tenon of a sliding dovetail.

Can you describe how this can be done on an older generation MFT.  I think I and many others want to know how to best adapt the MFK 700 for production of the male tenon of a sliding dovetail with old generation MFT 1080 and MFT 800, or to understand why that is not possible.  If a thin sheet needs to be placed on top of an older MFT to enable matching of the height or to provide sufficient bit clearance when mounting an MFK 700 to the side facing channel in the side rail, that may actually be an advantage since the that auxiliary top can include a slick, low friction surface and won't be quickly abraded by sliding workpieces across it as can occur with an MFT top.  (I found this out unintentionally when moving some large workpieces I recently made and had to move about when routing, assembling and sanding them.  Before I realized what was happening I had created several gouges in the top of my MFT 1080 which I had previously protected from saw kerfs through use of a thin sheet of plywood.)

Dave R.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on April 23, 2008, 04:56 PM
As soon as I get a moment I will see what, if anything, needs to be changed for the 700 to fit onto the side of the previous version MFT.  I think the "T" slot is in the same place so about the only thing that might be needed is to cut a relief slot into the top of the extrusion to clear the bit.  I will post that info when I can confirm.

Jerry


The beauty of the 700 is that NO MODIFICATIONS of any kind are required to mount the 700 as a horizontal router onto the side of the MFT3.

Yes, Jerry, you keep saying that, but fail to mention what modifications are required with MFT 'classic'. I know that the MFT3 surface sticks up higher than the 'classic'.  I have already made a little 'adjustment' to the top surface of one the sides of my MFT to accommodate using my OF1400 in the horizontal configuration (as per your MFS manual) with the 20mm dovetail bit.  Will I be removing more aluminum when I use the MFK700 in the horizontal mode?

Charles


Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: SteveBirmingham on April 23, 2008, 08:50 PM
The MFK 700 main purpose is as a trim router for laminate counter top, however there seems to be no provision to trim the backspash to the wall such as the Porter Cable trim router kit with its offset base. Will Festool come out with an offset base? There is more to countertops then just making them, they have to be installed and I have yet to see a square corner in a kitchen. My last countertop install saw the walls close to an inch out of square over about six feet. With out that attachment I would think twice about buying this router for its intended purpose. How many other guys use the PC trim router to fit the backsplash?
Steve
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Scrit on April 24, 2008, 05:03 AM
The MFK 700 main purpose is as a trim router for laminate counter top, however there seems to be no provision to trim the backspash to the wall such as the Porter Cable trim router kit with its offset base. Will Festool come out with an offset base?
Possibly not. There are currently no European routers offered with such an attachment, the Porter-Cable isn't offered here, the deWalt offset base isn't offered and Bosch don't offer it on either the older trimmer or the European version of the Colt. The use of laminate trimmers here is often confined to trimming the applied ends of post-formed laminate work tops (few here would ever consider making a top on site). Laminate upstands (backsplashes) are a relatively new introduction and the manufacturers tend to urge installers like me to install square the walls up by using battening, construction adhesive, etc which avoids the issue of scribing entirely

My last countertop install saw the walls close to an inch out of square over about six feet.
My last one was 3in out over 10 feet. We just built-out the wall with battens and sealed the edges of the upstands with coloured silicone.

Scrit
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dovetail65 on April 24, 2008, 01:56 PM
Built out the wall, 3 inches?

I need to see that, doesn't sound to nice to look at. Sounds like a shelf or huge lip. Am I missing something?

Did you build out the wall the entire height of the wall?

Do you have a picture of the finished results?

Nickao
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Scrit on April 24, 2008, 04:25 PM
Built out the wall, 3 inches?
I meant "out" as in out of alignment. The plasterer had finished the wall so that when a 3 metre (10ft) worktop (counter top) was positioned on the units it touched at each end but in the middle there was a three inch gap between the wall and the back edge of the worktop. As there is only about 3/8 to 1/2in to spare in the width of the worktop I packed-out the middle of the wall with battening before applying the laminate upstand. This is a fairly common problem with wet plastered masonry walls, althopugh rarely as bad as this on a new house (and it was brand spanking new)

Scrit
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Robert Robinson on April 24, 2008, 05:42 PM
I seen someone have to do that to his baseboards after a remodel. He filled in the middle with drywall mud and tapered it into the wall to hide the gap he seen after placing the baseboard against the wall.

p.s. he didn't do the remodel, he just had to fix some of the mistakes left behind.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on April 25, 2008, 02:32 PM
Hi all,

I just posted a tutorial on my web site jerrywork.com > tutorials that describes how to build a guide rail sled or stop for the MFK700 router and how to mount it to the side of either the MFT or the MFT3 tables for use as a horizontal router.  I think you might enjoy the read.

Jerry
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on April 28, 2008, 08:25 PM
Hi all,

I just updated the tutorial on my web site that describes how to mount the MFK700 to the side of either the MFT or the MFT3 and how to build a guide rail sled to use that router with a guide rail.  What I added was information on how to make a micro-adjuster from the Fine Adjustment piece from the 1010 router (488-754).  With this adjuster in place the height the bit tip sticks up above the surface of the table can be easily set in 0.05mm increments (about .002").  No modifications are required to the table, the router or to the Fine Adjustment piece.  The downloadable .pdf is located at:

http://jerrywork.com > tutorials

Hope it is helpful.

Jerry
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: neilc on April 30, 2008, 01:22 AM
Jerry -

In reviewing the specifications and your earlier comments, looks like there is only 20mm or 9/16" vertical bit (depth of cut) adjustment.  This would seem to be a limitation for any kind of dado or rabbeting cuts with most bits.  With a Porter Cable laminate trimmer, I believe I have over an inch of adjustment. 

I certainly can see the edge routing and trimming.  But it sounds like this unit has become a "go-to" tool for you.

Can you or anyone else elaborate on the vertical bit adjustment and whether you have found this to be a limitation when routing grooves or rabbets? 

Neil
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: greg mann on April 30, 2008, 10:11 AM
Neil,

20mm is a little over 3/4 inch, which is a lot more than 9/16. Also, it appears to me that the 20mm length limitation only comes into play on the horizontal base. That is to say that when the horizontal base is used, more than 20mm extension will cause the bit to interfere with the base. I do not really see any situations where this would be a limitation. In the vertical base orientation you still only have 20mm adjustment but that does not stop you from extending the bit a little more from the collet, thereby pre-adjusting the bit before using your 20mm adjustment window to tune in your exact length, which could be more than 20mm if needed. These observations are my recollections from a 5 minute examination of the tool at the dealer. I could be all wet but I don't think I am.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on April 30, 2008, 10:52 AM
Greg is correct.  The amount of bit travel you have with the fine adjuster is around 20mm or 3/4".  That is more than enough for most grooving operations and nearly all sliding DT operations but it is certainly not an all around router.  There are many times you will want greater bit tip movement range and that is where the plunge routers come in. The 1010, 1400 and 2200 area all plunge routers.  For all fixed base router use all that matters is how close the bit tip is to the base of the router when first mounted with the adjustment all the way "up" and the bit shank is at manufacturers recommended depth into the collet, and then how far the bit tip extends below the base of the router with the adjustment all the way "down".

The 700 is very useful for the way I work building fine furniture as many of my router operations are for grooving, edge profiling (ie: chamfering and such), inlay work and cutting male SDs.  All of those things take place inside a range of bit tip movement of 10mm given my standards.  Hence, the 700 now comes into my hands often.  The other six routers in my studio (1000, 1010, 1400, 2200 an old Bosch beater and a PC under a table) still get plenty of use, too, but the 700 I prefer where it is appropriate because of the light weight. 

I still use the table mounted router a lot for all kinds of things where the work piece is small enough to move safely across the top of the router table.  I grab the 1000 or 1010 for shelf hole work and routing dovetailed boxes and drawers on jigs for which I do not have guide bushings that fit the 700 (like the VS600) or where the jig holds the router so far off of the work piece that the bit mounted into the 700 won't reach proper depth.  I am doing tests with a number of different jigs now and will post results when I get time between customer projects.

The 1400 is faster than the 700 if I have really long straight routs to make in really dense woods or when using the saddle jig (now called something like acrylic router fixture) or for fitting onto a large router trammel.  The 1400 or the 2200 get the nod for long or large bits like cutting the edges, creating the tension rod pockets and recessing the electrical popups on that large conference table shown in the tutorial section of my web site.

Bottom line for me is there is no one "ideal" router for all seasons.  The closest is the 1400, but I prefer the smaller, lighter 700, 1000 and 1010 when they will do the job.  Hope this helps.

Jerry
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: neilc on April 30, 2008, 08:13 PM
Jerry & Greg -

Thank you both for the clarification.  The router specs on the microsite say 9/16" is the "column stroke" while Jerry said 20mm was the depth adjustment.  Thanks for making it clear that 20mm is the real vertical bit adjustment. 

Shane - you might verify what the "column stroke" refers to because I had assumed depth adjustment.  It may be the wrong number or I may just be misinterpreting what it means.

Neil
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: greg mann on May 04, 2008, 10:31 AM
I got a chance to play around with my new MFK700 yesterday and I have decided that I am really going to like this router. Regarding the length of cut issue; I set up one of Festool's inserted bit tools (#491081 16mm dia and about 25mm long)using Jerry's horizontal set-up on the MFT3 (Did I mention getting the MFT3 too?  ;D).

At any rate, I positioned the router to make a 3/16 rabbet at maximum depth possible without the bit end touching the rail. I am recounting this from a remote location so I can't tell you how long that was but I believe it was at least 3/4". The router made this cut without any hesitation and the dust collection was excellent, even without blocking off the top of the rail. This tool has a lot of power and a very rigid spindle.  I think it is safe to say that good work can be done with an inch or more extension from the base. I think it is really easy to overlook the 8mm collet capacity. This alone separates the MFK700 from all the other trim routers. Add in the ability to change bases, dust control, easy bit changes, use as a horizontal router, and you have a great small router system. FWIW, I also think it would be very easy to adapt this router to a plunge base. It may just be a matter of time before Richard at Micro-Fence builds a MFK specific base.

 As an aside, to mount to the MFT I used a 5/16" toilet bowl with a nut and washer on the outside. The washer is important because there is a hex head impression recessed in the base that should be covered by the washer so that it is not damaged when tightening the nut. Festool's intentions for this hole are as yet unknown but I would strongly recommend not damaging this seat area.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: neilc on May 04, 2008, 10:24 PM
Thanks for the update on depth of cut Greg.

Neil
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: lat on May 05, 2008, 06:00 AM
3 questions: 1) I do a fair amount of hot-melt edge banding on melamine panels and hate manual trimming. Would the MFK700 with the 1.5 deg. base work well to do the trimming? 2) Which bit would you use? 3) In a totally different field, for what kind of operations would the 0 deg. horizontal base be well suited?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Michael Kellough on May 05, 2008, 02:41 PM

I think it is really easy to overlook the 8mm collet capacity. This alone separates the MFK700 from all the other trim routers. Add in the ability to change bases, dust control, easy bit changes, use as a horizontal router, and you have a great small router system. FWIW, I also think it would be very easy to adapt this router to a plunge base. It may just be a matter of time before Richard at Micro-Fence builds a MFK specific base.


Great point! At 8mm this trim router is in a class by itself in NA.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 05, 2008, 05:31 PM
3 questions: 1) I do a fair amount of hot-melt edge banding on melamine panels and hate manual trimming. Would the MFK700 with the 1.5 deg. base work well to do the trimming? 2) Which bit would you use? 3) In a totally different field, for what kind of operations would the 0 deg. horizontal base be well suited?

 
  Lat, trimming edge banding is the perfect application for the MFK 700, almost any straight bit will work, so will Festool's Chamfer/edge trimming bit (http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=0&prodid=491026). The 0 degree base could be used to rout the male portion of sliding dovetail joints.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: lat on May 05, 2008, 11:13 PM
Thanks, Brice, you helped me make a decision, MFK700 on order.

Louis
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 06, 2008, 03:01 PM
Thanks, Brice, you helped me make a decision, MFK700 on order.

Louis

Me too, should get it to tomorrow. I've got a job next week that it is perfect for, a ton a edge banding to trim.

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 07, 2008, 07:55 PM
Me too, should get it to tomorrow. I've got a job next week that it is perfect for, a ton a edge banding to trim.

Well the MFK made its way to my door steep today, I'll be giving it one of the professional money making test in the morning, I'll report back.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: neilc on May 07, 2008, 11:28 PM
I also received mine and put it to work tonight.  It's a really excellent router.  Love the variable speed and handling.   I did determine that the adjustability of the bit height is 9/16" as the spec sheet said, not the 24MM that Jerry and Greg had suggested.  That's with the vertical base using the adjustment green adjustment screw.

Neil
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: greg mann on May 08, 2008, 09:23 AM
Not to nitpick, Neil, but I never stated a figure for adjustment. Someone mentioned a 20mm limitation on bit extension and I pointed out that this was only true for the horizontal base. I also pointed out that in the vertical base it was possible to use a bit with 25mm length beyond the base without complaint from the router. My point was this is territory a typical trim router can't handle well. I don't think I commented on finite adjustment other than to imply that coarse adjustment by how the bit was inserted in the collet was possible to increase the range of extension well beyond any 20mm (or 9/16 inch, for that matter) limitation. You are probably very correct that fine adjustment is in the rage of 9/16, or 15mm, but I don't see this as a problem. One thing is certainly true. The ease of adjustment on this tool blows away most trim router designs. 
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: neilc on May 08, 2008, 10:09 AM
Thanks for the clarification. 

It's a very interesting tool and has enough adjustment to do a lot more than edge trimming.  It does that and other routing with amazing control and accuracy.

Last night I was routing inlay at 1/32 inch depth with excellent control.  Size, weight, and balance are excellent.

Neil

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 08, 2008, 10:25 AM
Neil, I can confirm your measurement of 9/16" of travel, actually, its 15 mm, not the 20 mm Jerry posted.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: emck on May 08, 2008, 11:50 AM
Brice

Are you planning a detailed review of the MFK 700 on your site? ;)

Edward
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 08, 2008, 12:00 PM
Brice

Are you planning a detailed review of the MFK 700 on your site? ;)

Edward


Well, do you think the members here really want to see me do a detailed review?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Steve-CO on May 08, 2008, 12:01 PM
Any idea why router bits such as the HSS Groove/Slot Cutters (490-941,942,943) are listed in the catalogue as not being compatible with the MFK700?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Michael Kellough on May 08, 2008, 12:14 PM
Brice

Are you planning a detailed review of the MFK 700 on your site? ;)

Edward


Well, do you think the members here really want to see me do a detailed review?

Don't go to all that bother Brice.
Just pack it back in the box and send it around so everyone can try it out for themselves.  ;D
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 08, 2008, 12:17 PM
Any idea why router bits such as the HSS Groove/Slot Cutters (490-941,942,943) are listed in the catalogue as not being compatible with the MFK700?

Steve, good question, seems very few bits are "compatible" with the MFK700.


Well, do you think the members here really want to see me do a detailed review?

Don't go to all that bother Brice.
Just pack it back in the box and send it around so everyone can try it out for themselves.  ;D

Well, that would save me a lot of time!  ;)
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Michael Kellough on May 08, 2008, 12:34 PM
Brice

Are you planning a detailed review of the MFK 700 on your site? ;)

Edward


Well, do you think the members here really want to see me do a detailed review?

Actually I'd like to know why you bought this router.
 
I seem to remember several weeks ago you did a nice description of the edge following stuff for the 1000/1100 routers and you seemed to suggest that it did such a good job that you didn't see the need for a very expensive trim router.

Subsequently, you went to Los Vegas...
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Steve-CO on May 08, 2008, 12:42 PM
Any idea why router bits such as the HSS Groove/Slot Cutters (490-941,942,943) are listed in the catalogue as not being compatible with the MFK700?

Steve, good question, seems very few bits are "compatible" with the MFK700.



It seems like this router would be a perfect application for the groove cutters.  Anyone from Festool care to clear this up?  Is this just a typo or my ignorance?  ???
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 08, 2008, 01:19 PM
Actually I'd like to know why you bought this router.
 
I seem to remember several weeks ago you did a nice description of the edge following stuff for the 1000/1100 routers and you seemed to suggest that it did such a good job that you didn't see the need for a very expensive trim router.

Subsequently, you went to Los Vegas...


  Michael, in Henderson I saw just how easy it is to use the MFK, that is appealing to me for one very big reason. It has to do with the "professional money making test" comment I made yesterday. I got a call over the weekend form the client of about a upcoming job, The job was about 150 linear feet of plywood veneer shelving with edge banding for the show room of a furniture store. That job has grown to over 600 linear feet.

  First thing this morning I tried out the "professional money making test" with the MFK. The test is, can I show the kid on the crew how to use the tool and let him have at, without worrying he'll screw something up!? It worked out, the MFK is so easy to use, with only a few minutes of instruction (and I set the MFK), he is trimming edge banding without worry of cutting into plywood face. Now, I'm able to go make money someplace else (or post on the internet). Thats why I picked up the MFK, its a "professional money maker".
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: greg mann on May 08, 2008, 01:54 PM
Any idea why router bits such as the HSS Groove/Slot Cutters (490-941,942,943) are listed in the catalogue as not being compatible with the MFK700?

I can only look at the pics online but I am guessing they are too long.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: emck on May 08, 2008, 02:06 PM
Brice

Are you planning a detailed review of the MFK 700 on your site? ;)

Edward


Well, do you think the members here really want to see me do a detailed review?

I personally would be interested in a review, I check your site often and it is a good resource (especially for a novice like me) anyone else would be interested in a review of this router?
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Michael Kellough on May 08, 2008, 04:19 PM
Brice

Are you planning a detailed review of the MFK 700 on your site? ;)

Edward


Well, do you think the members here really want to see me do a detailed review?

I personally would be interested in a review, I check your site often and it is a good resource (especially for a novice like me) anyone else would be interested in a review of this router?

I hope my wisecracks did not obscure my interest in reading a review by Brice.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Forrest Anderson on May 08, 2008, 04:41 PM
Brice

Are you planning a detailed review of the MFK 700 on your site? ;)

Edward


Well, do you think the members here really want to see me do a detailed review?

Brice

Yes!! I would love to see a review, if you could spare the time to do one.

Presumably you got the MFK700 SET (574288), which seems to consists of the router motor, vertical base unit with dust shroud, 1.5 degree horizontal base unit with dust extraction hood and sensor bearing guide (roller bearing), Systainer, collet(s) and wrench. Which collets did you get included in the package, and which bits have you been using? Did you get the parallel edge guide (495182), which appears to be an optional item?

For interest, I have heard that when used vertically (like a conventional router) the roller bearing can be replaced with the Contact Spring (530026, aka "ski foot") from the similar OFK700 laminate trimmer (NAINA). Here is the diagram from the OFK700 manual, and it shows that you can install either type of guide on the OFK700. The advantage of the ski foot is that it will even out any minor surface irregularities on the edge, eg when routing chipboard/particleboard.

(http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain/albums/userpics/OFK700_Ski_Foot.jpg)

I really hope that you can find time to do a review...

Forrest
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 08, 2008, 05:04 PM
  Forrest, yes, here in the States the tool comes with the router motor, vertical base unit with dust shroud, 1.5 degree horizontal base unit with dust extraction hood, sensor bearing guide (roller bearing), Systainer 2, 1/4" and 8 mm collets, wrench and instruction manual. I did buy the parallel edge guide and a few Festool bits, 19 mm two flute edge trimming bit (491 666), 45 degree chamfer bit (491 669) and the edge trimming chamfer  cutter with bearing (491 026).I've not seen the ski foot offered here.

  I've not had time to use it much, the kid used it today, he sure liked it. I did work on making a guide rail adapter for it, I still need to get 5/16" steel rod to mount it to the adapter. Its going to be just like Jerry's (thanks. Mr. Work!).

  OK guys, I'll try to start working on  review very soon. Keep in mind most people do detailed reviews for money, since I won't be making a nickel on this I don't know how much time I'll be able to spend on it. Until someone starts sponsoring these things I don't know how many more I'll do. I'm excited about this tool and I know you guys are too, so I'll see if I can find the time.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: emck on May 08, 2008, 05:12 PM
   OK guys, I'll try to start working on  review very soon. Keep in mind most people do detailed reviews for money, since I won't be making a nickel on this I don't know how much time I'll be able to spend on it. Until someone starts sponsoring these things I don't know how many more I'll do. I'm excited about this tool and I know you guys are too, so I'll see if I can find the time.

Brice your site is amazing and you do such a nice job on the review, I would do a review but I don't have the tool and I am not all that good at writing and furthermore I don't have your skill set.

thanks and looking forward to it.

Edward
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Eiji Fuller on May 10, 2008, 01:56 AM
Brice,
Your reviews are top notch, in with Jerry and Rick. I would love to see an MFK review when you get a chance.

Eiji
Title: Template Guides for MFK700
Post by: Forrest Anderson on May 10, 2008, 06:58 AM

This illustration and caption was taken from the "Features" section of http://mfk700.festoolusa.com/

(http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain/albums/userpics/MFK700_Threaded_Insert.jpg)

Does anyone know the part number of the threaded insert, and the sizes/part numbers of the template guides that will fit the MFK700?

Forrest

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 10, 2008, 09:13 AM
Forrest, the vertical base is threaded (taped) for standard PC style guide bushings. Its built right into the base, the parts needed are the bushings. As you can see from my picture, I've started working on my review.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 10, 2008, 09:47 AM
  Until someone starts sponsoring these things I don't know how many more I'll do.

Brice Burrell,
Please don't take this personally, but I take sponsored reviews with a pinch of salt :-\
As soon as the review has been "sponsored", it just becomes an extension of the company, that's reimbursing you to do a job for them.
Sponsored reviews are more times than not, "glossy" with the main aim on selling, rather than a good honest balance of the pro's and cons.
Again, Brice don't take this personally (I know you do a lot for the forum).

  Your point is well taken. In defense of paid reviewers, I'm sure you understand that putting together a review takes time and its only fair that the reviewer be paid something. I agree that an unbiased review from an unpaid reviewer is what most people would like to see. People willing to do a free review that have a good knowledge of how tools work and know how to put together a detailed review are few and far between. And those people aren't going to write very many reviews before they realize that they should be getting paid for what they do. Let's face it, in life there are always trades offs, some paid reviews are glossy, but some really do give you good info.
Title: Re: Template Guides for MFK700
Post by: Michael Kellough on May 10, 2008, 10:57 AM

This illustration and caption was taken from the "Features" section of http://mfk700.festoolusa.com/

(http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain/albums/userpics/MFK700_Threaded_Insert.jpg)

Does anyone know the part number of the threaded insert, and the sizes/part numbers of the template guides that will fit the MFK700?

Forrest



Amazon has an assortment of router bushings. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hi/104-1811925-2399942?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=router+bushings&x=0&y=0) Only the PC style (as in Porter Cable who introduced this style about 50 or 60 years ago) will fit the Festool base. In general, all threaded bushings are the PC style though there may be exceptions. Some manufactures make them in a progression of diameters. The genuine PC version is in an odd assortment of specific diameters and lengths to suit specific templates. I think it is good to also have a set of the more generic brass versions which makes it a little easier to modify the length and diameter of the bushing. Be aware though that some of the generic bushings fit loosely and might not center accurately without using a centering mandrel. As far as I know these are only available in fractions of inches.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Forrest Anderson on May 10, 2008, 11:28 AM
Forrest, the vertical base is threaded (taped) for standard PC style guide bushings. Its built right into the base, the parts needed are the bushings. As you can see from my picture, I've started working on my review.

Brice, many thanks for the photo, which makes the method of fitting nice and clear. It looks as though you had some standard Porter Cable-style bushes knocking around the shop?

Amazon has an assortment of router bushings. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hi/104-1811925-2399942?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=router+bushings&x=0&y=0) Only the PC style (as in Porter Cable who introduced this style about 50 or 60 years ago) will fit the Festool base. In general, all threaded bushings are the PC style though there may be exceptions. Some manufactures make them in a progression of diameters. The genuine PC version is in an odd assortment of specific diameters and lengths to suit specific templates. I think it is good to also have a set of the more generic brass versions which makes it a little easier to modify the length and diameter of the bushing. Be aware though that some of the generic bushings fit loosely and might not center accurately without using a centering mandrel. As far as I know these are only available in fractions of inches.

That's some excellent background, for which I'm very grateful. I mainly use a Bosch router, and it has a bush rather like Festool generally uses on their OF series of routers, in that is simply clicks into place.

In the UK, "PC" is immediately identified as Personal Computer, and then Politically Correct (hopefully members won't be tempted to re-start that thread !), or even Police Constable. Since Porter Cable isn't marketed over here, the abbreviation isn't used very widely in that context.

I see that threaded guide bush sets are available in the UK from the likes of Axminster (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Threaded-Template-Guide-Bushes-33164.htm) and Rutlands (http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/DKBS8), but like you say, both these are Imperial sets.

Although it's nice of Festool to let the MFK700 accept commonly-available bushes, I'm a bit surprised that they don't sell their own metric ones.

Thanks again to you both.

Forrest

Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Ned on May 10, 2008, 12:44 PM
...but I take sponsored reviews with a pinch of salt :-\

Good idea, except that it should be extended to "I take all reviews with a pinch of salt."

Quote
As soon as the review has been "sponsored", it just becomes an extension of the company, that's reimbursing you to do a job for them.

Not necessarily.

"Just some guy" may offer his opinion for free in a review that isn't worth your time to read.  Maybe the author doesn't know anything about his subject.  Maybe he has a grudge against the manufacturer.  Maybe he works for a competitor.  There are actually more possible motives to guard against in an unpaid review.

Jerry Work gets paid, and is absolutely worth your time to read.  I'm certain that everything he writes is the truth, including the strength of his endorsement.  If I do the kind of work that Jerry is doing, I'm confident that I will be pleased with products he endorses.

If I did what Brice does, I'd be very interested in his opinions, whether he was paid or not.  I don't do what Brice does, and I'm still interested in what he has to say.

Ned


Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dovetail65 on May 10, 2008, 01:12 PM
  Until someone starts sponsoring these things I don't know how many more I'll do.

Brice Burrell,
Please don't take this personally, but I take sponsored reviews with a pinch of salt :-\
As soon as the review has been "sponsored", it just becomes an extension of the company, that's reimbursing you to do a job for them.
Sponsored reviews are more times than not, "glossy" with the main aim on selling, rather than a good honest balance of the pro's and cons.
Again, Brice don't take this personally (I know you do a lot for the forum).

  Your point is well taken. In defense of paid reviewers, I'm sure you understand that putting together a review takes time and its only fair that the reviewer be paid something. I agree that an unbiased review from an unpaid reviewer is what most people would like to see. People willing to do a free review that have a good knowledge of how tools work and know how to put together a detailed review are few and far between. And those people aren't going to write very many reviews before they realize that they should be getting paid for what they do. Let's face it, in life there are always trades offs, some paid reviews are glossy, but some really do give you good info.



I agree Brice. I was working on a post that turned into a "how to" and that turned into an"e-book" that now may even become a published project book.

I almost posted this free until a friend pointed out it was over a year of work and pictures and was better then some project books he had read. Now I think I will charge at least 20.00 for the e-book if it can not get published. It was just way to much work to give out free, even to my friends. Who has the time to do as much as you have already done? It is amazing to me all the things you have already done free. There is a point people need to be reimbursed and I think you are at that point.

I appreciate your info Brice and I totally agree  that you should  have some sponsors or at least get some money or payment in some form. Otherwise you could be doing something with family or making money with your time.

Nickao
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Michael Kellough on May 10, 2008, 02:09 PM

Who has the time to do as much as you have already done? It is amazing to me all the things you have already done free. There is a point people need to be reimbursed and I think you are at that point.

I appreciate your info Brice and I totally agree  that you should  have some sponsors or at least get some money or payment in some form. Otherwise you could be doing something with family or making money with your time.

Nickao

I agree with what Nick said and how he expressed it.
My previous post was way too hum drum.
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: mike on May 10, 2008, 03:40 PM
I find it hard to just keep up with reading post, let alone doing what Brice does. It has to be
taking time from his family or his bread and butter.
 I try to get as much information on an expensive tool as possible before I buy. I would gladly pay a couple of bucks for a good review.
I doubt Festool will sponser anything since their manuals barely touch the basics. I see the best bet is a user fee. Post a link to a website that the user has to pay a couple of bucks through Paypal to view a review. The reviews of the reviewer would follow his post.

BTW Thanks Brice for your previous reviews and how to's.
Mike  :)
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Dovetail65 on May 10, 2008, 03:49 PM
Brice's info is better than any manual ever, I totally agree mike! I read Matthew's Rotex article when he did the hardwood floor entry. That is what sold me, nothing Festool did.

I am loving the new Rotex too, thanks guys for your insightful reviews of the tools!

nickao
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Brice Burrell on May 10, 2008, 05:47 PM
Mike, I would never take money from users for my reviews. Taking money from those making a profit on what I'm doing, thats a different story.

I've had dealers contact me with commercial interest in the content of my site. I decided that I would rather share my work for free for everyone, here and on my site instead of making money and having my work used commercially. That may change, doing reviews takes up my time and don't forget, I'm paying for my website to share Festool and related info. I don't know what the future holds for my site, its days may be numbered.

Before starts to wonder why Festool hasn't worked with me, well they have in the past, the reviews for the router accessories was something I did for Festool. I don't want to make it look like Festool is being the bad guy here for not sponsoring/commissioning my reviews.

Back to the MFK, I finished making my guide rail adpter, thats really going to add the usefullness of this tool. Thanks again Jerry!
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Jerry Work on May 11, 2008, 11:16 AM
You are welcome, Brice.  The more you use the 700 with the guide rail adapter, the more you will like it.  I am building a rather fancy oriental style bed at the moment from highly figured Oregon big leaf maple and bloodwood that requires some precise inlay work.  The 700 easily allows the very fine control required.  I could do the same work with the 1010 or the 1400, just not as easily or with as fine a level of control.

Jerry
Title: Re: MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback
Post by: Matthew Hirsch on May 30, 2008, 12:37 PM
I used the MFK to trim up some edge banding and also to put Rabbets on some support rails. This is a very precise machine and very easy to handle. I have let a few of my clients Demo it in there shop and they have been very impressed. The ones that have sold get great feedback from their owners