Author Topic: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline Prizen

  • Posts: 7
Hi all

Are there any reliable methods to make a MFT top without using LR32 / UJK Parf Guide / full CNC / those phenolic resin 30mm hole jigs + copy ring and router?

Ive used Parf Guide and Hole Jig + router methods without desired accuracy, and the CNC option or LR32 are too expensive (I wish to make several tops)

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Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 904
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2020, 04:58 PM »
So, you want to make an MFT without any of the tools or jigs that are used to make MFTs?  The problem is that you are making a repeating pattern. This usually means a form of jig. Otherwise if you use a form of repeating measure , you end up with the compounding of your measuring error.  I have had good results with the LR 32 and 30mm jig systems. There are people that make their own LR32 system jigs. This may be your best bet. To make your own LR32 rail. There are threads on this on this forum. Best of luck.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 672
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2020, 05:41 PM »
Yeah, there is,  you contact/go too a festool retailer, give them $141 and have a MFT top.

I don't know what people value their time/hassle/tools/materials at.  I just don't see how this isn't always the answer.

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 1012
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2020, 05:59 PM »
Not sure if it is still true but they offered the top for the older MFT 1080 for less money and it is close to the size of the MFT/3 top.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 904
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2020, 07:44 PM »
Yeah, there is,  you contact/go too a festool retailer, give them $141 and have a MFT top.

I don't know what people value their time/hassle/tools/materials at.  I just don't see how this isn't always the answer.


That is easy. It is not exactly what you want. Different material. different dimensions, you may already have the materials. Just to mention a few. Then there are people who enjoy making their own tools and fixtures.

BTW the ferstool table is 225 plus tax, that is just for the top. Last time I made one it took less than 15mins. So, 20 bucks for materials, 15 minutes.... that makes my time worth 4x200=   :) I know I do not bill 800ish an hour, and it is not much of a hassle.

Then there is the simplest answer of them all. BECAUSE.

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1155
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2020, 08:01 PM »
There was a guy that used pegboard and a drill, and had a video  I forget the guy's name, but thought it was Anthony.  Just to time consuming in my opinion.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1076
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2020, 08:15 PM »
Prizen,  [welcome] to the FOG.

You eleminate pretty much everything that is currently available for make your own MFT top. The other options are;

- Woodpecker Boring Jig
- Taigi Template former Dominofix
- CNC Design
Mario

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 64
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2020, 10:56 PM »
You might be surprised how reasonable the CNC option is. I had a 2400 x 1200 x18mm MDF top routed for AU$80. That included the MDF. Now, I did know the guy that did it, but even if you double that price it's still a great price.

Offline zapdafish

  • Posts: 562
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 01:01 AM »
buy a top and use it as a template for other tops.
CT22, TS55, Kapex, RO150, Domino, RS 2 E

Offline Prizen

  • Posts: 7
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2020, 04:19 AM »
Thanks for the welcome guys! My main tooling is :

OF1010, RO150, CT Mini, Mafell Track Saw, Mafell P1CC Jigsaw.

I also have quite a few bench dogs. Using the UJK Parf System I wasted three sheets of MDF trying to get the alignment right. It was close but never acceptable, even for woodworking levels of accuracy.

I could have a CNC job, but quote is 130USD equivalent for one sheet plus the delivery, there is nowhere local with the capability.

Perhaps a replacement top purchase is the best course of action



Offline Precision Dogs

  • Posts: 12
    • Precision Dogs - Gadgets for woodworkers
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2020, 04:37 AM »
Thanks for the welcome guys! My main tooling is :

OF1010, RO150, CT Mini, Mafell Track Saw, Mafell P1CC Jigsaw.

I also have quite a few bench dogs. Using the UJK Parf System I wasted three sheets of MDF trying to get the alignment right. It was close but never acceptable, even for woodworking levels of accuracy.

I could have a CNC job, but quote is 130USD equivalent for one sheet plus the delivery, there is nowhere local with the capability.

Perhaps a replacement top purchase is the best course of action

You are on the right (Festool?) track  ;)
None of the jigs available will give you accuracy across the tabletop besides using a largest template or LR32 system.
I elaborated on it in a lengthy post in mft3 top replacement


IG- @precisiondogs
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/precisiondogs

Offline Prizen

  • Posts: 7
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 04:51 AM »
Thanks. I've considered the LR32 system but reviews are very mixed which doesn't make it an easy decision. And indeed it is expensive for what it is.

Offline c_dwyer

  • Posts: 153
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2020, 09:17 AM »
+1 (plus my $0.02) for purchasing a replacement top, especially if there's no CNC shop in your area to help reduce the cost enough to make the back & forth trip worthwhile (plus the sure-to-happen hour you spend chatting).

I'm also a big believer in Murhpy's Law, which for me (experience talking here...), goes something like: I can save $30 by getting a local CNC shop to do one up, but I get in an accident driving there and now I'm out some real money, plus the time needed to deal with something else.

Suddenly, placing an order to save time and unforeseen expenses doesn't sound so bad. [big grin]
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 09:20 AM by c_dwyer »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6896
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2020, 09:49 AM »
Using the UJK Parf System I wasted three sheets of MDF trying to get the alignment right. It was close but never acceptable, even for woodworking levels of accuracy.

I'm curious what accuracy issues you had with the UJK system as it and the LR 32 system are probably the two most accurate home brew methods.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1491
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2020, 10:24 AM »

Perhaps a replacement top purchase is the best course of action

I don't know how much time you have for woodworking. Spending money on a jig and then hours on making a replacement top is unthinkable to me as I value my shop time more than the cost of a new top which should last for years, say 6 or 7 for a hobbyist. Cost-wise, it's just $20 to $30 a year over 6 to 7 years, or $2 to $3 a month give or take. If I wanted to save $150 US for a new top, I could just skip eating two or three meals at a restaurant.

If one does woodworking for a living, the expense is tax deductible.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 03:47 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Prizen

  • Posts: 7
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2020, 11:37 AM »
I think perhaps I'll wait for the new Festool Table Saw and leave the MFT for clamping duties.

Anyone know when the new table saw will be available in Europe?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1977
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2020, 12:59 PM »
If you need several MFT tops, purchase one and replicate it into as many as you want using pattern router bit. Probably the fastest method there is.

Offline JG

  • Posts: 26
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2020, 07:48 AM »
I used my old top to make a new one.  Make sure you have some good holes in your old top that are accurate and not torn up.  Also make sure you have at least two rows of good holes in your old top. 

Start in a corner and clamp the old top on the new top.  Use a 15 mm drill bit to bore out the bulk of the hole in the new top thought the hole in your old top.  Try to stay a close to the center as you can.  Use a top bearing router pattern bit with a 1/2 inch diameter [I like the Freud - 50-101 Pattern Router Bit Top Bearing 1/2"D 1-1/4"CL 1/4"SH].  This bit is long enough to extend through the new top and cut the hole in one pass.   As a caution, this is not a plunge type bit so do not turn on the router and plunge it into the hole.  I keep the router off and make sure the bit is entirely inside the hole you just drilled and the bearing is deep enough to ride on the inside of your old template hole and below any saw kerfs that may exist in the old top.  Turn on the router and ride the bearing on the inside of the old hole to make the new top match up perfectly.  On my first one, I was not down deep enough and cut both the new and old top on one of the holes.  I can't use that hole again.

You can use large dogs to connect the old top to the new top to allow you allow you to continue your hole pattern until all the holes are done.  This method works for all style tops, MFT3, 1080, mini, MW 1000 extension table, etc.

The time it takes depends on how many good holes you have.  The lost time is in the moving of the jig to extend the holes.  It took me about just under an hour the first time to make an MFT3 top.  It has taken me about 45 minutes for the additional tops I have made.  I ended up with really precise hole patterns.  I am thinking of making a large jig for future use.

Good luck.

Offline NuthinFancy

  • Posts: 2
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2020, 01:04 PM »
I tried the Woodpeckers jig, but couldn't get it to stay put well enough to give me the accuracy I wanted.
Plan B became the CNC route (sorry, couldn't resist) and did some research for options in my area.
BTW, my top is 860 x 2185 x 19 (mm).

I found seven places advertising custom CNC work / sign making and submitted RFQs to all of them.
Two didn't reply, three were absurd (= not interested in one-offs), one was high, one was at the high end of my budget.

We talked, came to terms ($200 including the 19mm MDF) and I got my top. 
I don't have a truck, but Home Depot does, so add $20 for the rental.

It is square, accurate, and I'm petrified to make a mark on it.

In hindsight, I would have liked to apply a light seal coat *before* the machining.
I'm reluctant to now for fear it might invade the holes and make them too tight to use.

HTH and best of luck.
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."  Red Green

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4547
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2020, 02:16 PM »
I tried the Woodpeckers jig, but couldn't get it to stay put well enough to give me the accuracy I wanted.
Plan B became the CNC route (sorry, couldn't resist) and did some research for options in my area.
BTW, my top is 860 x 2185 x 19 (mm).

I found seven places advertising custom CNC work / sign making and submitted RFQs to all of them.
Two didn't reply, three were absurd (= not interested in one-offs), one was high, one was at the high end of my budget.

We talked, came to terms ($200 including the 19mm MDF) and I got my top. 
I don't have a truck, but Home Depot does, so add $20 for the rental.

It is square, accurate, and I'm petrified to make a mark on it.

In hindsight, I would have liked to apply a light seal coat *before* the machining.
I'm reluctant to now for fear it might invade the holes and make them too tight to use.

HTH and best of luck.

That’s a very good idea but several people who added a finish after matching say it had no (or minimal) effect on the fit of the dogs.

You can use thin pieces of flat stock like 6mm mdf or Masonite as sacrificial covers for the panel. Keep a stock of different sizes nearby and your panel will stay pristine for a long time. My MFT-1080 has only one kerf in it after ~12 years.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 02:21 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline jeffinsgf

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2020, 02:41 PM »
A hand-held 20mm reamer is a wonderful tool to have. If you machine your own top and find the holes are off a little, you can ream them to a perfect fit. If you dribble glue or finish into a hole, it will clean it out, too.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 106
Re: Making MFT Top: any methods other than LR32/Parf Guide Sys/ CNC
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2020, 01:06 PM »
Are there any reliable methods to make a MFT top without using LR32 / UJK Parf Guide / full CNC / those phenolic resin 30mm hole jigs + copy ring and router?

Making An MFT Top - No CNC, No Guide Jigs:



He basically makes his own jig in wood. He makes the holes at 10cm distances, which is interesting and might create its own problems in the Festool-sphere, but it does have the advantage of not cutting across holes when a Festool rail is held against dogs with the UJK clips.