Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tools & Accessories => Topic started by: T. Ernsberger on April 27, 2021, 09:17 PM

Title: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 27, 2021, 09:17 PM
I had knives made from Moulding Knifes Direct to make dominos on the William Hussey moulder. The results are just as good as Festool’s.  Now I can run my scrap to make dominos.  I made $300-400 in dominos in about hour and half.  Just use my name when ordering from Moulding Knifes and they can retrieve my file.  I believe it’s $68 for a set of knives delivered to my door.  I tried uploading the video and the size it to big to post.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COC_z9ujwvm/?igshid=92msekp5ojdw
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: DynaGlide on April 27, 2021, 09:47 PM
I saw this when you posted on IG. Very cool.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 27, 2021, 09:55 PM
I saw this when you posted on IG. Very cool.

Thanks Matt,
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: vkumar on April 27, 2021, 10:21 PM
Very cool Matt.  Does the lip in the middle interfere with anything? Or does it help in assembly?

Vijay
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: MikkelF on April 28, 2021, 05:47 AM
Brilliant idea! 
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Steve1 on April 28, 2021, 07:54 AM
Cool.

I suppose one could also make them on a router table with a round-over bit.   Anybody try that ?
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: jeffinsgf on April 28, 2021, 08:11 AM
I've done it. I wanted through-mortises in the same species as the project. I made Paduak Dominoes with careful planing and a router table.

 (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d9QWhgix2_cpE-B6ZxiRYjNuiLrPipHwKc6XmMrCdHMuKQ7TsB1OBxZ2prxnWn6cGpiHYxk52hNWS6XzqZdA3EiPZ9PN1eeKwAz-1to6x3pD41wgvDwx4t8EgZaxBQxn8odqpLEa89qf8Vl1Fvo4rP=w1730-h1297-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Cheese on April 28, 2021, 08:52 AM
FWIW...just to expand the consciousness of this forum, Domino's can be fabricated from various materials. They don't need to be fabricated from wood exclusively.

In this instance, I needed conventional SAE threaded holes in some Domino's and fabricated them from aluminum.

Keep experimenting, it works.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 28, 2021, 08:55 AM
Cool.

I suppose one could also make them on a router table with a round-over bit.   Anybody try that ?

I tried that.  It will work if you keep the dominos loose.  If you make them tight the glue being a liquid will not compress and will not allow the joint to come together.  I had the knifes made with glue relieves to allow the glue to move
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Packard on April 28, 2021, 09:50 AM
These could be made from extruded aluminum or extruded polycarbonate resin.  In either case ribs could be designed in to allow glue to flow, but the glue will not be of much use as most wood glues do not adhere well to aluminum or plastic.

Those boards will join nicely if you can depend on the surface glue to hold things together.  The dominoes would then be working as an alignment aid.

In that case, I think I would prefer to use a biscuit cutter and biscuits. 

The wood dominoes add to the glue area and on butt joints and in sheet goods it is a much stronger joint.  But for joining face grain to face grain, the added strength is probably not needed.

Personally I am not convinced that the aluminum dominoes are an advantage over the wood versions.  The wood versions will expand in the slots to add a mechanical aspect to the glue up. 
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: squall_line on April 28, 2021, 09:57 AM
These could be made from extruded aluminum or extruded polycarbonate resin.  In either case ribs could be designed in to allow glue to flow, but the glue will not be of much use as most wood glues do not adhere well to aluminum or plastic.

Those boards will join nicely if you can depend on the surface glue to hold things together.  The dominoes would then be working as an alignment aid.

In that case, I think I would prefer to use a biscuit cutter and biscuits. 

The wood dominoes add to the glue area and on butt joints and in sheet goods it is a much stronger joint.  But for joining face grain to face grain, the added strength is probably not needed.

Personally I am not convinced that the aluminum dominoes are an advantage over the wood versions.  The wood versions will expand in the slots to add a mechanical aspect to the glue up.

The aluminum dominoes look like a good compromise between a knock-down connector and a fixed domino; the images above appear that they're being used to mount some sort of sacrificial or replaceable end cap.  Theoretically you could also thread the under-side if you needed to hold the dominos tighter and/or make them replaceable.

In the shower or at some other point this morning I thought about using the domino cutter as a way to create space for safety locks on window sashes or frames (the kind that flip out and allow the window to open 2-3 inches but no wider), and wondered to myself if there was already a lock/latch that would fit.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: CeeJay on April 28, 2021, 10:00 AM
Cool.

I suppose one could also make them on a router table with a round-over bit.   Anybody try that ?

I tried that.  It will work if you keep the dominos loose.  If you make them tight the glue being a liquid will not compress and will not allow the joint to come together.  I had the knifes made with glue relieves to allow the glue to move
I’ve made 8mm dominoes on the router table when I ran out previously.

I made a board a shade under 8mm thick first (about 7.9mm) then scored some very light grooves across it at 45 degrees with the table saw, the grooves were only about 0.5mm deep. These were for glue relief as per above.

Then ripped board to width, then rounded the edges on the router, then cut to length on crosscut box.

Took about 90 minutes to make about 200 dominoes.

Next time I might try a bullnose bit on the router if the dominoes are wide enough, would halve the time of the router operation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 28, 2021, 10:12 AM
Cool.

I suppose one could also make them on a router table with a round-over bit.   Anybody try that ?

After rounding the tenons, I used a hand saw to make the grooves. I used beech for that batch of dominoes. A v-bit can also be used on the router table, if so desired.

The chair project I'm now working on also happens to need dominoes that are 70 to 80mm long. I have some left-over uncut shop-made dominoes to use.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 28, 2021, 10:17 AM
Cool.

I suppose one could also make them on a router table with a round-over bit.   Anybody try that ?

I tried that.  It will work if you keep the dominos loose.  If you make them tight the glue being a liquid will not compress and will not allow the joint to come together.  I had the knifes made with glue relieves to allow the glue to move

Another option is to cut grooves on the shop-made tenons with a V-bit...it does require extra work on the router table though.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Michael Kellough on April 28, 2021, 10:20 AM
If you want the same tight fit you get with the authentic Dominos you need something like what the op made, or you need to find metric bullnose router bits.

I’ve made very close 8mm Dominos with a 5/16” bullnose bit but wasn’t able to find bits for the other sizes.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: jeffinsgf on April 28, 2021, 10:21 AM
I guess my glue relief effort was pretty low-tech. I used a carving vee tool to carve in some grooves.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 28, 2021, 10:23 AM
FWIW...just to expand the consciousness of this forum, Domino's can be fabricated from various materials. They don't need to be fabricated from wood exclusively.

Snip.

The Domino machine can even be used to cut non-wood materials such as granite (?) countertops.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: jeffinsgf on April 28, 2021, 10:25 AM
If you want the same tight fit you get with the authentic Dominos you need something like what the op made, or you need to find metric bullnose router bits.

I’ve made very close 8mm Dominos with a 5/16” bullnose bit but wasn’t able to find bits for the other sizes.

Mine were 6mm using an 1/8" radius round-over. Perfect fit on the ends.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: jussi on April 28, 2021, 10:42 AM
Wow cool idea.  I often see these machines on Craigslist but never had a reason to give it a second look. Might have to pick one up next time it shows up. Thanks
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 28, 2021, 10:44 AM
Snip.

 But for joining face grain to face grain, the added strength is probably not needed.



Agreed.

Before I acquired the DF500, all my boards were edge-joined with nothing but glue. None of them including some close to 20 years old have failed. As long as the edges to be joined are properly trued (or spring-joined) and clamped, no dominoes or dowels or biscuits are needed other than for alignment purposes or for ease of handling/clamping.

Glue is stronger than wood.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Cheese on April 28, 2021, 11:03 AM

The aluminum dominoes look like a good compromise between a knock-down connector and a fixed domino; the images above appear that they're being used to mount some sort of sacrificial or replaceable end cap.  Theoretically you could also thread the under-side if you needed to hold the dominos tighter and/or make them replaceable.


I would call these particular Dominos semi-knock-down because they're permanently epoxied into the walnut. That's the reason for the 3 "keys" that are machined into each side. The epoxy flows into the recesses and it's done.

Place the board on it's edge with the Dominos pointing up. Use a syringe to fill each mortise and move on to the next. When finished, the epoxy will have self-leveled and filled in the "keys" so just top off each mortise with a little more epoxy.

[attachimg=1]

Yes, the Dominos retain a replaceable rear edge/cap for a countertop to make the initial fitting task easier. All fitting is done from the front and when completed, then the rear cap is attached.


Front edge:

[attachimg=2]



Rear attached edge on RH side:

[attachimg=3]


The bottom of the walnut countertop with the rear edge attached.

[attachimg=4]

Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 28, 2021, 11:15 AM
One furniture maker featured in a Fine Woodworking article uses a combination of materials to make tenons for miters (after they're milled with the Domino Joiner).
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Joe Felchlin on April 28, 2021, 11:30 AM
Re -
Making Dominoes - Glad that it “works” for you.👏
$68 for the molder knives sounds pretty reasonable.
But... I’m guessing that most of us woodworkers -
Don’t have a $2,795 William Hussey Molder.

Early on - More than once - I bought some 2” Beech wood -
And “sliced” it - And “diced” it into Dominoes -
With my: Table saw, router, and band saw -
With very acceptable resulting Dominoes.

But...
Given the COST per Domino - And the TIME involved - I quickly realized that -
I’d rather just buy ‘em - And spend my time actually WOODWORKING.😋
To each their own.🤷🏻
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Cheese on April 28, 2021, 11:40 AM
One furniture maker featured in a Fine Woodworking article uses a combination of materials to make tenons for miters (after they're milled with the Domino Joiner).

Interesting Chuck...I've used this method before for both aesthetics and to prevent the miters from opening.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 28, 2021, 12:02 PM
[
Interesting Chuck...I've used this method before for both aesthetics and to prevent the miters from opening.


What was used to cut the slots on the frame?
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: live4ever on April 28, 2021, 12:06 PM
I've got a Shopfox 1812 and I often thought about this but didn't NEED the project enough to put the research into getting it done.  Really appreciate the legwork here! 
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Cheese on April 28, 2021, 01:36 PM
What was used to cut the slots on the frame?

I believe I used a table saw, the most difficult thing was to find a blade kerf that matches the thickness of the legs on the aluminum angle.

The kerf was cut too deep on the RH piece so I’ve just kept it around as a reminder and a sort of no-go gauge.  [smile]
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Sparktrician on April 28, 2021, 04:36 PM
Interesting Chuck...I've used this method before for both aesthetics and to prevent the miters from opening.

@Cheese, have you ever used a lock domino setup to prevent miters from opening up?  It has worked very well for me in cabinet doors as well as in screen doors. 
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Lincoln on April 28, 2021, 05:20 PM
FWIW...just to expand the consciousness of this forum, Domino's can be fabricated from various materials. They don't need to be fabricated from wood exclusively.

Snip.

The Domino machine can even be used to cut non-wood materials such as granite (?) countertops.



That would be 'solid surface' bench top material (Corian etc), not granite. There's no way it would cut granite.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 28, 2021, 05:35 PM
Yes. likely Corian or the like.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Cheese on April 28, 2021, 07:08 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician link=topic=66345.msg641231#msg641231
[member=44099
Cheese[/member], have you ever used a lock domino setup to prevent miters from opening up?  It has worked very well for me in cabinet doors as well as in screen doors.

No Sparky @Sparktrician ...I haven't, but that's a great idea. Any photos for the visually challenged? [smile]

I only edged one floor with the aluminum angle/wood thing and then just changed to countersunk GRK screws with contrasting or same color plugs, it was so much easier and faster, although it doesn't have the same WOW factor. It also seems that people either LOVE or HATE the aluminum angle/wood interface, there's no in-between.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 28, 2021, 08:26 PM
Re -
Making Dominoes - Glad that it “works” for you.👏
$68 for the molder knives sounds pretty reasonable.
But... I’m guessing that most of us woodworkers -
Don’t have a $2,795 William Hussey Molder.

Early on - More than once - I bought some 2” Beech wood -
And “sliced” it - And “diced” it into Dominoes -
With my: Table saw, router, and band saw -
With very acceptable resulting Dominoes.

But...
Given the COST per Domino - And the TIME involved - I quickly realized that -
I’d rather just buy ‘em - And spend my time actually WOODWORKING.😋
To each their own.🤷🏻

William Husseys can be bought used for a $400-600. The parts are still available for older machines.  The cost for me to run them isn’t that high considering how much Festool is charging for them.  The Dominos 4mm-6mm are not worth makin, bigger dominos in my option are.  Literally in an hour and half I made $400 in dominos that I would have had to buy for my projects.  That’s money in my pocket not Festool’s.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: squall_line on April 28, 2021, 08:43 PM
William Husseys can be bought used for a $400-600. The parts are still available for older machines.

I'm not being snarky when I ask this, but I'm always trying to figure out where people find the deals that they talk about on here.

The MFT/3s for $150, the CXSs at a thrift store for $12, the pneumatic pocket-holer for $500, the $5,000 jointer/planer for $250 at an estate sale...

I see people mention Craigslist, occasionally eBay, and often times "I happened to find".

When I get on Craigslist, I get nothing for Festool.  Facebook Marketplace occasionally has what looks to be a bunch of stolen tools at an insane price or tools that are completely beat up for almost full retail.  Or there are Systainer bundles that disappear within 5 minutes of being posted (not that I'm bitter about those, at all... not me...).  eBay is the land where DF500s and DF700s are listed Buy it Now for $200 over retail and other tools auction out within 90% of retail...

Is it because I'm only in a smallish blue-collar metro area?  Do these deals come up in larger metros all the time?
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Mini Me on April 28, 2021, 08:49 PM

Drill a hole through the Domino for glue to escape. I think a lot of people use way too much glue, I saw someone hit a Domino in when hydraulic lock had occurred due to using too much glue and the result was not pretty. Another way to replicate the toothed appearance of the Festool item might be to use a toothed hand plane on the stock after it is sized for thickness.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 28, 2021, 10:21 PM
William Husseys can be bought used for a $400-600. The parts are still available for older machines.

I'm not being snarky when I ask this, but I'm always trying to figure out where people find the deals that they talk about on here.

The MFT/3s for $150, the CXSs at a thrift store for $12, the pneumatic pocket-holer for $500, the $5,000 jointer/planer for $250 at an estate sale...

I see people mention Craigslist, occasionally eBay, and often times "I happened to find".

When I get on Craigslist, I get nothing for Festool.  Facebook Marketplace occasionally has what looks to be a bunch of stolen tools at an insane price or tools that are completely beat up for almost full retail.  Or there are Systainer bundles that disappear within 5 minutes of being posted (not that I'm bitter about those, at all... not me...).  eBay is the land where DF500s and DF700s are listed Buy it Now for $200 over retail and other tools auction out within 90% of retail...

Is it because I'm only in a smallish blue-collar metro area?  Do these deals come up in larger metros all the time?

It’s takes time.  I find deals all the time.  You can set up Craigslist alerts for items you are looking for and when a item you have tagged gets post you get a email.  I have good luck on Facebook market place.  Craigslist in my area isn’t as good lately.  Festool items are pretty hard to find a good deal on.  It used to be more easy when the brand wasn’t so popular. 
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Svar on April 28, 2021, 11:41 PM
Even if shaper was bought at full price, it's peanuts if you make living from carpentry and molding. It's not like OP bought it just for making dominos.
Good job turning scraps into useful product in a cost effective manner.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Crazyraceguy on April 29, 2021, 07:48 AM
I have made 6mm and 8mm Dominos with roundover and bullnose bits respectively. This was done to have them exposed and use a particular species of wood most of the time. I've also done it to make them wider than the factory made units.
I even made a few that were done so that the exposed face was facegrain rather than the usual endgrain. That was to plug a couple of slots that were done on the wrong face of a leg. It was a painted project, but I still didn't want the endgrain to show. It worked well to cover a newbie mistake in the early times with the Domino.
I have also used my Domino to cut slots for table top mounting clips and to make slots for adjustment of fences on jigs.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 29, 2021, 07:49 AM
Even if shaper was bought at full price, it's peanuts if you make living from carpentry and molding. It's not like OP bought it just for making dominos.
Good job turning scraps into useful product in a cost effective manner.

I guess that depends on the Shaper  [big grin].  I don’t want to pay full price for the one I have.   [eek]
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: jeffinsgf on April 29, 2021, 08:37 AM
I'm not being snarky when I ask this, but I'm always trying to figure out where people find the deals that they talk about on here.

The MFT/3s for $150, the CXSs at a thrift store for $12, the pneumatic pocket-holer for $500, the $5,000 jointer/planer for $250 at an estate sale...

I see people mention Craigslist, occasionally eBay, and often times "I happened to find".

When I get on Craigslist, I get nothing for Festool.  Facebook Marketplace occasionally has what looks to be a bunch of stolen tools at an insane price or tools that are completely beat up for almost full retail.  Or there are Systainer bundles that disappear within 5 minutes of being posted (not that I'm bitter about those, at all... not me...).  eBay is the land where DF500s and DF700s are listed Buy it Now for $200 over retail and other tools auction out within 90% of retail...

Is it because I'm only in a smallish blue-collar metro area?  Do these deals come up in larger metros all the time?

The bigger the market, the better the buying opportunities, no doubt. But, the real keys to finding bargains on used (anything) are diligence and patience. Whether you set up automatic searches or do it manually, you have to check frequently and be flexible with your search radius. If you're commercial, and you decide you need a new piece of equipment...now...then used bargain hunting is going to be hit or miss at best. If you keep your eyes open and remain flexible, things will pop up.

I have a 1950 Delta drill press that I wouldn't trade for the fanciest new one. I gave $100 for it and spent a couple weekends and another $50 getting it cleaned up and rewired. But, to me, the search and rebuilding are as pleasurable as building furniture. It's my hobby within a hobby.

Now it's time to put the computer away and get downstairs and continue working on the base for my 1962 DeWalt radial arm saw. I'm into the saw about $80, I've built the stand with mostly reclaimed lumber, and I would not trade it for a new Kapex.

But, that's just me.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: ChuckM on April 29, 2021, 03:11 PM
We all prioritize our resources (time is one of them) differently. For my DF500, I buy the dominoes... I only regret that I didn't buy them in bulk packs soon enough as the unit cost is so much lower, and I use tons of them.

But I also make some of them at lengths that are not available for the DF500. In the latest project, I deepened some 8mm and 10mm mortises. I still have the shop-made 8mm domino blanks that I can cut to length. But I'll need to make about fourteen 10mm dominoes that are about 105mm long.
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Sparktrician on April 30, 2021, 09:26 AM
Quote from: Sparktrician link=topic=66345.msg641231#msg641231
[member=44099
Cheese[/member], have you ever used a lock domino setup to prevent miters from opening up?  It has worked very well for me in cabinet doors as well as in screen doors.

No Sparky @Sparktrician ...I haven't, but that's a great idea. Any photos for the visually challenged? [smile]

 

Aye, indeed (now that I'm back in the shop), @Cheese.  In the first image. dominoes #1 and #2 are in a pretty standard location for a normal miter joint. 

[attach=1]

In the second image, domino #1 is in the same location as before, but domino #2 has been moved closer to #1. 

[attach=2]

Here the joint is glued up as normal, put in clamps and adjusted for consistent diagonals.  Once the glue has set up and clamps have been removed, domino #3 is mortised in from either top or bottom (depending on whether they're at the top or bottom of the door) to keep them out of normal sight, if varnished or stained.  If the doors are to be painted, "Que so what, so what?"

[attach=3]

The dominoes now have interfering angles that prevent the joint from being opened up. I've never had one fail from normal stresses. 

IHTH... 
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: squall_line on April 30, 2021, 09:38 AM
Quote from: Sparktrician link=topic=66345.msg641231#msg641231
[member=44099
Cheese[/member], have you ever used a lock domino setup to prevent miters from opening up?  It has worked very well for me in cabinet doors as well as in screen doors.

No Sparky @Sparktrician ...I haven't, but that's a great idea. Any photos for the visually challenged? [smile]

 

Aye, indeed (now that I'm back in the shop).
*snip*
The dominoes now have interfering angles that prevent the joint from being opened up. I've never had one fail from normal stresses. 

IHTH...

This helped ME tremendously, thank you for posting! :)
Title: Re: Making Dominos, fast, easy and accurately
Post by: Cheese on April 30, 2021, 11:56 AM
Thanks for that Willy...that would be perfect for the top or bottom of a door where it can't be seen...or even for a 3/4" thick strip flooring border. [thumbs up]

I saved the photos in a file named Sparky... [big grin]