Hi all,

I’m ready to part with my Dewalt 10” slider to find something that I can keep up against the wall in the garage.

I’ve been looking at the Kapex as an option and I’d prefer to stay with a 10” saw because it will handle most of my needs. I do have a few questions for all of you Kapex owners…

1) Do you really ever get used to that inline handle? It feels so awkward how you have to bend your wrist.

2) How is cutting base board on the flat? My DeWalt can just barely cut 5.25” base standing up at 90 deg and can do a 45 degree cut if it’s less than an inch off the end. I don’t think I would mind cutting on the flat with the ease that Kapex can adjust. I would not even attempt on the Dewalt.

3) How accurate are the lasers vs the shadow line? Has anyone added an aftermarket LED to cast a shadow?

4) Can you cut a 4” square post? (3.5” nominal)

5) Are you happy enough with the blade selection? They are a bit pricy but at least can be resharpened.

6) How is the Kapex in the power department. Does she bog cutting hardwood?

Thanks!

I sold my 12” Dewalt SCMS and got the Kapex for the same reason. I use my saw a lot more now that I don’t have to set it up out of storage every time. Kapex sits very nicely on a rolling stand at the back of my garage. Takes barely a minute to roll it out and get set for a quick cut or small project.

I never had an issue with the inline handle. I feel like it gives me more control, if that makes sense.

I do miss the XPS shadow line system. That was so simple and genius. Laser on Kapex is OK. The blade falls in between two very fine laser lines. It took me a little getting used to to remember where the blade was going to hit (vs referencing only off a single line)

I do use the Kapex wings for repeatable cuts and they come out perfect every time, rendering the laser less necessary for me.

If you make the switch, try to find the Kapex locally vs having it shipped. There are many reports on here from users who got damaged saws (the packaging is woefully inadequate for consumer shipping)

I think the only way you’re ever going to properly assess the inline handle (the most contentious part of the design for many) is to try it out for yourself. I know that might take some effort and some mileage, but I would personally go that way rather than ordering it, taking delivery, unpacking it, trying it, hating it, repacking it - and then having to pay hefty shipping costs back to where it came from.

I do a lot of site work, sometimes alongside other carpenters, and I got lucky. I showed up at a job to find a guy using a Kapex, so I set up my 12” DeWalt and we swapped saws for the day so I could give it a proper tryout. It’s a truly lovely saw with some great features. I spent a lot of the day cutting baseboards, crowns, trims etc. The machine’s bevel adjustment is very, very clever, and the cut accuracy is easily as good as anything I’ve used. The dust extraction is class-leading for a mitre saw, and it also has some other distinct advantages, such as less weight - important when the site’s van park is 100 metres away from the job and there are then three flights of stairs to get to where you’re working.

But for me - that handle was a total ‘no’. Based on constant usage for a whole day, I realised that I’d never be able to live with it on an all-day-every-day basis. I also didn’t care for the somewhat flimsy stand, and was also disappointed to discover that the baseplate wouldn’t take the yellow DeWalt stand clamps so I could mount it on my stand. Most of the material I use comes in 3.9m, 4.2m, 4.8m or 5.4m lengths, so the DeWalt stand’s extending wings are mandatory in my world. I also much preferred the shadow line because it shows you exactly where the outer edge of the blade tooth is going to land.

But we’re all different - and that was just my personal experience based solely on the kind of site work I often do away from the workshop. If I was an occasional user and the saw was stationary up against a workshop wall,  it would maybe have been a different story. Blade wear - I have to change blades every two weeks because of the sheer number of cuts I make - I’ve got around 20 x 96-tooth Freuds in a constant cycle of being used or being resharpened.  The other guy hated my DeWalt, which just goes to prove that there’s no one-size-fits-all in the world of power tools. The Kapex has a very strong following on here so it obviously isn’t an issue for its multitude of super-happy users. As said, hands-on is the only way you’ll find out.

I think this guy pretty much sums it up for me;



Hope you get fixed up.

I thought the handle would take getting used to over my DW with horizontal handle. It did take some getting used to. But in a short time I found that I really like it.

I found that actually using it and just playing around with it in a store are not the same.

One thing that made a difference was building my shop miter station a couple inches lower than I might normally have done. An inch or two on the height makes a big difference. I also discovered that when I use it I stand just a few inches more left or right than when I used a horizontal handle. Not much off center but a little. This makes a surprising difference and is something that I didn't notice when trying it out in a store. There is a tendency ( I think) to stand dead center in front when approaching the handle.

An advantage of the handle design is that I can go left or right handed without as much awkwardness. This difference will depend on the saw being compared to.

I love the lasers and have no interest in the shadow line. I find that I can use them and count them on the for accurate cuts. But this depends as much on the set up and calibration of the miter station as it does on the lasers themselves.

Some likes dislikes will definitely will be different between shop and site use.

Seth

   

A couple important notes on the video above.

      He says the lasers are not working. OK, but if they were working he would not need to lower the blade to the wood very often to see where it is going to cut. 

      Also, Kapex is opposite many (most ?) miter saws in regards to lowering the head without turning it on. He is doing it wrong and backwards for Kapex. If you depress only the safety button the head will not lower. If you press both safety and trigger it will start the saw. If you pull just the trigger on Kapex the head releases and lowers without the saw starting. He clearly does not know this and based on other saws would not expect it to be this way. If he did that negative would be removed from his negatives list. It is a non-existent problem.

    The blade lowering is important to note because the way he is doing it by pressing both slightly, a user might accidentally fire it up while playing around with the wood under the blade. Plus there is no need to do it that way. Just to reiterate ...... on Kapex it is trigger only to lower the head.  At least on the model he us using.

    Can anyone with a new model Kapex chime in on the head lowering procedure ?

   Seth

Quote from: SRSemenza on July 19, 2022, 10:31 AM

Can anyone with a new model Kapex chime in on the head lowering procedure ?

The trigger on my 2021-07 Kapex 120 has two positions.  The first position releases the head, and no matter how much I squeeze it, the motor will not turn on.  If I press the thumb button, the trigger can move to the second position and the motor will turn on.  The safety button on the top of the handle prevents the trigger from starting the motor unless it is held down long enough for the trigger to get past the first stop.

Snip.

Based on such description (and memory), the EB and REB have the same trigger design.

Sold the very good Bosch I mention below for two reasons: Space demands behind the saw, which was huge. And I needed better capacity for crowns, baseboards and the odd cuts that makes upright feel better or easier. Didn’t want a monster like most 12” saws.
Portability matters to me - with the UG cart it’s a new world.

1) Do you really ever get used to that inline handle? It feels so awkward how you have to bend your wrist.
- # Having only had inline handle saws from DeWalt (15 years) and a Bosch GCM 8 SDE before the Kapex - I find the occasional side/horizontal handle odd. I embrace the fact that our muscular system are better suited to inline handles. Kapex 120’s handle is steep and odd the first times you use it.

2) How is cutting base board on the flat? My DeWalt can just barely cut 5.25” base standing up at 90 deg and can do a 45 degree cut if it’s less than an inch off the end. I don’t think I would mind cutting on the flat with the ease that Kapex can adjust. I would not even attempt on the Dewalt.
- # Presumably, it’s a matter of taste and difficulty - learning not to alter the saws in-line motion makes accurate cuts for most saws. Kapex is pretty stiff, but non good technique can mess up even on the Kapex.

3) How accurate are the lasers vs the shadow line? Has anyone added an aftermarket LED to cast a shadow?
- # Use the lasers only for rough cutting. Don’t think there is a shadow light option, even 3. Party. Tooth on/beside the pencil line only - except some crowns that need sneak up to the line.

4) Can you cut a 4” square post? (3.5” nominal)
- # European 98x98mm - Barely with spacer forward of the fence. So absolutely, and that was a relief!

5) Are you happy enough with the blade selection? They are a bit pricy but at least can be resharpened.
- # As others here, very happy with original blade (Mostly softwood though)

6) How is the Kapex in the power department. Does she bog cutting hardwood?
- # Sharp blade + let the saw do the job - it’ll cut anything.
As an addendum to that above: I have a KS 60 too, with blades that cuts very nice visually judging by the cut ends. But; slight smell of burnt wood and I feel slight resistance lowering the head.. these blades are dull, even though they look and feel ok.

I actually hate it on toast. The odd thing is though, put in gravy when you cook a slow cooker shoulder of lamb................and it totally transforms it. Beef though......................nah, it ruins it 

Marmite = bin juice

You are correct, you either love it or hate it.  I hate it.

Quote from: kitfit1 on July 19, 2022, 03:06 PM

I actually hate it on toast. The odd thing is though, put in gravy when you cook a slow cooker shoulder of lamb................and it totally transforms it. Beef though......................nah, it ruins it 

100% agree @kitfit1 - although Marmite on toast is my personal #2 breakfast choice, bettered only by Weetabix and raisins. Look at the jar instructions and it says 'adds a tempting richness to soups, stews and gravies'. Works really well with slow-cooked belly pork too. Add half a jar of Patak's plum sauce and you've got heaven in a stewpan. Visit the forum's 'General Friendly Chat' section and hit up the 'What's Cooking' thread. Some brilliant chefs on here. Hope you're keeping well in Stourport mate, and that the Severn hasn't boiled away in the heatwave. All the best.

Apologies to the OP for the temporary Brit hijack. So anyway - the Kapex ...........

Keeping very well in Stourport thanks "Butch". In fact went into "town" earlier on tonight for a very rare Donna Kebab covered in chillie sauce.....................more chance of me boiling away now than the "Severn" 
Will defo look up the "what's cooking" thread 

I had 2 Kapex burn up...one lasted 18 months. Only used by me cutting 3/4" material. Capacity of cut is awful compared to current Makita LS 1019. Dust collection and weight were a positive though.

This is really helpful feedback thanks everyone. For some reason I can never get notifications to work on this forum so I missed the responses pouring in :/

I will need to spend some more time at the store to see if I would get used to the handle. My wrist just doesn't like to move that way. I agree it would feel better if the saw were mounted lower to the ground but then I will tend to hunch over the saw which is just trading one problem for another. It is a really good idea to have a saw that works both left and right handed... they could have just put the horizontal handle in the middle the same way they have the vertical handle.

I know I would really miss the shadow line but having a laser on each side seems doable. Then again the shadow line also lights up your work area....

I've never had great luck with long bevel cuts on my DeWalt because of the blade deflection. With good hand discipline it can be done but it doesn't take much for that blade to start wondering off course. Are the Kapex rails just that much more solid that it doesn't have the same issue?

I had 2 Kapex burn up...one lasted 18 months. Only used by me cutting 3/4" material. Capacity of cut is awful compared to current Makita LS 1019. Dust collection and weight were a positive though.

I looked at that Makita a while back and was hesitant because it has a single laser which is isn't very useful. Why does the 40v XGT get the shadow line??? Apparently there are ways to hack something together.

This is really helpful feedback thanks everyone. For some reason I can never get notifications to work on this forum so I missed the responses pouring in :/

I will need to spend some more time at the store to see if I would get used to the handle. My wrist just doesn't like to move that way. I agree it would feel better if the saw were mounted lower to the ground but then I will tend to hunch over the saw which is just trading one problem for another. It is a really good idea to have a saw that works both left and right handed... they could have just put the horizontal handle in the middle the same way they have the vertical handle.

I know I would really miss the shadow line but having a laser on each side seems doable. Then again the shadow line also lights up your work area....

I've never had great luck with long bevel cuts on my DeWalt because of the blade deflection. With good hand discipline it can be done but it doesn't take much for that blade to start wondering off course. Are the Kapex rails just that much more solid that it doesn't have the same issue?

Quote from: morts10n on July 19, 2022, 07:58 PM

I had 2 Kapex burn up...one lasted 18 months. Only used by me cutting 3/4" material. Capacity of cut is awful compared to current Makita LS 1019. Dust collection and weight were a positive though.

I looked at that Makita a while back and was hesitant because it has a single laser which is isn't very useful. Why does the 40v XGT get the shadow line??? Apparently there are ways to hack something together.

One of the reasons for the Kapex handle design is to help keep the user from exerting side to side and rotational force. The rails seem pretty solid but the handle is a contributing factor to the very true cuts.
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I know that some will never get used to or like the handle.

      However I find that when I actually use it as opposed to just grabbing it to get a "feel" for it, that I actual grab it differently. I just go ahead and make the cut without putting all that much thought into grabbing onto the handle. This is just one of those things that a person ends up doing with much less consciousness than when trying it out.

 This is not to knock the guy in the vid, he was genuinely showing how to hold / grab the handle. But he was really grabbing the handle with his full hand. It doesn't take that much of a full grasp. I pretty much use my fingers and thumb, but I don't really wrap my full hand around it until I am bringing the head forward and down. Hard to explain.

    Another big factor is just that different people have different hand, arm, wrist mechanics.

    Like I said I know that some will never like or get used to the handle. And I am not trying to convince everyone to like it. Just giving some (hopefully) useful insight into using the saw.

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   I don't get not using or liking the lasers (yes, maybe hard to see outside ). I set / adjusted mine so that the blade fills the space between them exactly. In other words if a place the laser line exactly on top ( overlayed on ) of a pencil line, the cut will leave exactly just the pencil line. Knowing this I can take the line , leave the line, or split the line. I can see exactly how much wood will be cut (anything showing between the lasers). Which makes it easy to shave 64ths if need be.

And it eliminates a lot of bending down to see where the blade touches the wood. Which largely takes care of the lower saw station height.

    @TomK_2   Can you buy it from a nearby store where it is easy to return?  You've got 30 days to find out if you hate it.

Seth

Quote from: SRSemenza on July 20, 2022, 12:13 AM

   I don't get not using or liking the lasers (yes, maybe hard to see outside ). I set / adjusted mine so that the blade fills the space between them exactly. In other words if a place the laser line exactly on top ( overlayed on ) of a pencil line, the cut will leave exactly just the pencil line. Knowing this I can take the line , leave the line, or split the line. I can see exactly how much wood will be cut (anything showing between the lasers). Which makes it easy to shave 64ths if need be.

Seth, have you ever used a mitersaw that had the shadow line instead of the LASER?  The difference is night and day.  The shadow line leaves a crisp line where the blade is.  For me, the LASER is a line that is not crisp where the blade will be.  I understand how to use the LASER alignment, but will never appreciate it more than the LED shadow line.

I haven't used a shadow line. But the part I don't get isn't peoples the preference for the shadow line. I can understand a preference for one type or another.

 What I don't get is having lasers available and not using them. Or not using them because they are out of alignment, inaccurate, or etc.    At least on Kapex, my experience is the opposite .... they are accurate, highly adjustable, stay aligned, easy to see, work very well, I can count on them, don't have to bother lowering the blade.

Maybe some of it is old habits?

I described my laser alignment because I have had them adjusted to different parameters. Such as the laser being part of the kerf that gets cut. And found that they are not as good or intuitive when set that way. Not suggesting that people don't know how to use them in general.

I guess if it boils down to lasers or nothing, I'll take the lasers every time.

I am curious now as to why people don't like the lasers?  Other than liking the shadow line better.

Seth

Quote from: morts10n on July 19, 2022, 07:58 PM

I had 2 Kapex burn up...one lasted 18 months. Only used by me cutting 3/4" material. Capacity of cut is awful compared to current Makita LS 1019. Dust collection and weight were a positive though.

I looked at that Makita a while back and was hesitant because it has a single laser which is isn't very useful. Why does the 40v XGT get the shadow line??? Apparently there are ways to hack something together.

Probably because a lot of new stuff is only put in with new models while older ones are not revised.

But how often you need the laser on the other side? Move the blade down to check for those few cuts?

Quote from: MikeGE on July 20, 2022, 05:23 AM

Quote from: SRSemenza on July 20, 2022, 12:13 AM

   I don't get not using or liking the lasers (yes, maybe hard to see outside ). I set / adjusted mine so that the blade fills the space between them exactly. In other words if a place the laser line exactly on top ( overlayed on ) of a pencil line, the cut will leave exactly just the pencil line. Knowing this I can take the line , leave the line, or split the line. I can see exactly how much wood will be cut (anything showing between the lasers). Which makes it easy to shave 64ths if need be.

Seth, have you ever used a mitersaw that had the shadow line instead of the LASER?  The difference is night and day.  The shadow line leaves a crisp line where the blade is.  For me, the LASER is a line that is not crisp where the blade will be.  I understand how to use the LASER alignment, but will never appreciate it more than the LED shadow line.

I haven't used a shadow line. But the part I don't get isn't peoples the preference for the shadow line. I can understand a preference for one type or another.

 What I don't get is having lasers available and not using them. Or not using them because they are out of alignment, inaccurate, or etc.    At least on Kapex, my experience is the opposite .... they are accurate, highly adjustable, stay aligned, easy to see, work very well, I can count on them, don't have to bother lowering the blade.

Maybe some of it is old habits?

I described my laser alignment because I have had them adjusted to different parameters. Such as the laser being part of the kerf that gets cut. And found that they are not as good or intuitive when set that way. Not suggesting that people don't know how to use them in general.

I guess if it boils down to lasers or nothing, I'll take the lasers every time.

I am curious now as to why people don't like the lasers?  Other than liking the shadow line better.

Seth

Because they distrust what they don't understand? And if misaligned... kinda useless.