Author Topic: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?  (Read 64414 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ccmviking

  • Posts: 411
    • Blue River Cabinetry Kitchen and Bath
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #120 on: July 19, 2008, 11:23 AM »
Eiji,

Glad you got yours working well.  I tried a little test on my replacement Kapex that about drove me insane.  Make a mark on the miter gauge several degree's from any detent position and just for fun use one arm and try to line your Kapex miter marker up with your line.  It's never going to happen.  2 hands are needed for any adjustment.  Eiji I'd like to hear more about the movement of your table now.  I usually takes a lot of effort to get it moving and then it breaks loose, moves quite a bit and you start over.  I thought it might be the guide plate material friction being too high.  I was at Lowes the other day just for fun and checked Dewalt, Makita, and Hitachi and they all moved very, very smoothly with just one hand.  Everyone one of those saws also don't have anything that scrapes, and when you release the detent lock feature they completely clear the miter gauge. 

More on my replacement Saw.
  I really want to thank Timmy C from Festool Junkie for all the help he's given me on trying to get things working (ok, and RW too!).  The new saw doesn't have what I'd call any scraping at this point.  I never noticed the miter detent scraping on my first saw since the other 2 scrape locations made so much noise.  The new saw isn't making noise at those 2 locations but the detent locking tab doesn't fully release.  It's not really causing an issue at this point and I might put some precautionary lube there to try and prevent a burr.  You can press the release thumb button as hard and you like and when moving the table side to side it scrapes a little and you can hear it slightly clicking in to each detent position.  I didn't use it for molding as much as I would have liked to yesterday but will for sure on Monday.  I did use the saw yesterday for simple 90 degree cuts and it of course was a pleasure to use.    I really, really like the saw and about every feature on it.  Of course I hope that some great changes are made to this miter locking feature, but it's a pretty solid performer.

Eiji,

Bring on the pics! 


Chris...   
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 11:27 AM by Chris Mercado »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline rnt80

  • Posts: 953
    • Agape Wood Design
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #121 on: July 19, 2008, 11:36 AM »
Eiji, I appreciate your ingenuity but I have to echo Brice's sentiments.  The reality is that there are some changes that need to be made to the saw and I'm of the opinion that we (as customers) shouldn't have to make them.  Regardless of the price tag the defections that we're seeing with the saw are the responsibility of Festool.  I'm inclined to send mine back and wait for the release of Kapex Part 2.  I hate to sound like a grinch but for the money we paid there is a lot more expected of the product.
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline Matt Antonucci

  • Posts: 76
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #122 on: July 19, 2008, 12:08 PM »
Just wanted to also throw in another thing to consider before modifying the saw in any way.  There is the very real possibility that Festool might refuse service/return on owner modified saws, even for something as simple as a washer.  For $1,300 smackers, I would first call their repair guys and talk to them before taking anything apart.  Just my two cents...  I did and they could not have been a nicer bunch of guys to talk to...

So, I am on my deck working with the saw all day today in direct Atlanta sun light...  So far, it is working fantastic after replacing the Spring Plate...  The table turns very very nicely now and there is absolutely no scraping sound...


Matt

Offline MiterMaster

  • Posts: 139
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #123 on: July 19, 2008, 12:08 PM »
....It's an expensive tool and you don't want to do any modification that might void the warranty.....

I totally agree on this point - it is a VERY expensive saw and for the price we're all paying we should not be experiencing any of these issues.
McDermott Interiors
Trim Carpentry by Design

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4910
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #124 on: July 19, 2008, 01:32 PM »

The other problem is with the stiffness of the miter turn table.  The fix:

Replace the spring washer at the center post.

parts needed:

5/8 ID small outside diameter washer
5/16 ID nylon washer

Directions.

Remove inserts.
Remove center post nut. 
Remove center post washers. The spring washer is just a bit thicker than the 5/8ID small outside diameter washer.
Install the 5/8 ID small outside diameter washer in place of the spring washer.
Install 5/16 nylon washer
Place the top washer on top of the nylon washer and tighten the center nut.

PROBLEM SOLVED.


Eiji, thanks for pointing out that there is a spring washer in the miter table base connection.
I had missed it and that is why I had speculated that the guard plate might be made of a
somewhat compressible synthetic like nylatron. It is probably steel.

I still wonder why the scraping problem is often intermittent.

Just make sure your miter table and base are still coplanar.

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #125 on: July 19, 2008, 01:50 PM »
I've notice that my saw is also doing the "scraping".But it looks like it's comming from the top of the miter scale?
I can see a scrubbing like line along the edge of the miter scale.(about a 1/4" from the edge)i looked under neath and i notice a tab (part of the turning table)on top of the miter scale,that is use with that black piece that is under the scale in order to pinch the miter scale when you use the locking mechanism.
does that make any senses?
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Steve Jones

  • Posts: 405
  • Austin, TX US
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #126 on: July 19, 2008, 02:08 PM »
Seems to be becoming a more common problem as time goes on.

as a quick unofficial count, does anyone reading this thread who owns a Kapex that's been used for more than an hour or two NOT have the scraping problem?

I ask because I believe this is a design issue and believe it would be helpful to know the extent of the problem.
Steve Jones

AdapTableTool, Inc.
adaptabletool@gmail.com

Offline waynew

  • Posts: 69
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #127 on: July 19, 2008, 10:10 PM »
I'm based in Canada and purchased mine from Hafele. Today, for the first time I heard the dreaded screeching noise from heck (metal on metal). I thought it interesting that today I used it outside in the sun and it was a very hot and humid day, prior to this there were no problems whatsoever when it was being used indoors (could be just coincidence).

I dont take kindy to this type of screwing around, I'll give it one phone call to Hafele and if they f__K me around I'll simply send the thing back for a refund.
Festools - the tools that make you feel like working!

Offline Tony M

  • Posts: 61
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #128 on: July 19, 2008, 11:11 PM »
I'm based in Canada and purchased mine from Hafele. Today, for the first time I heard the dreaded screeching noise from heck (metal on metal). I thought it interesting that today I used it outside in the sun and it was a very hot and humid day, prior to this there were no problems whatsoever when it was being used indoors (could be just coincidence).

I dont take kindy to this type of screwing around, I'll give it one phone call to Hafele and if they f__K me around I'll simply send the thing back for a refund.
I thinks me be going that route seein's how I can smell chit from a mile away. None of what has been offered for a fix is working,  and the corporation says what they are fixing is the problem

Offline TLawler

  • Posts: 1
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #129 on: July 19, 2008, 11:29 PM »
I purchased a Kapex from McFeely's on June 27th and received it on July 3rd.  I noticed as soon as I unpacked it that swinging the miter table was difficult.  I have yet to turn it on, I have been very busy and thought that I would set it up with my new saw helper.  My old setup a DeWalt 12" SCMS w/ saw helper was pretty nice.  Anyway I walked out to the shop yesterday afternoon after getting back from a job and I could not swing a miter.  The saw seems as though it is locked up! I called McFeelys they referred me to Festool and I was told they would be sending me a replacement plate.

I am posting this just so those interested might find it interesting that I have only rotated the saw a few times including unpacking.  The saw has been in my garage shop the entire time, no environmental control,  the temp has been 89 to 92 high humidity this entire week.

Tim Lawler

Offline vteknical

  • Festool Employee
  • *
  • Posts: 160
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #130 on: July 19, 2008, 11:37 PM »
As far as Eiji's mod.  I serious doubt Festool would play hard ball rejecting a warranty claim under these circumstances.
They are reasonable you know?  Besides aren't they sending out parts for the customer to install in hopes of a resolution.

I would of absolutely gotten ticked and done the same thing a Eiji.

Being in the MFG'ing industry myself, I can tell you they probably have known about this for some time and were in a state of Hurricane Katrina syndrome.  Problem is sitting there staring you right in the eye, you know what you needs to be done to remedy the problem however, you go into self preservation mode and deny it even exists.  Until the village comes at you with pitch forks and knives.  

Me personally, I would be hiding this from my wife, she's always on the look out for this kind of Ammo to hit me with, in times when you are down in out she'll finish you off with a kick in the Festool nuts.
 

Offline Per Swenson

  • Posts: 871
  • So far deep in rural nj, there are no Neighbors
    • Swenson&Swenson
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #131 on: July 19, 2008, 11:56 PM »
V,

As I said before I don't have one yet,

and I have no idea how they test them.

But do you think they set up 10 sawz in the July heat or equivalent at any time?

I am  asking because I really have no idea.

And what makes these saws different from the loads they sold in Europe for a year

before a box was opened here?

Per
Party like its 1929. It's the American way.


There outta be a law banning sesquipedalianism on

internet forums.

www.swensonz.com

Offline vteknical

  • Festool Employee
  • *
  • Posts: 160
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #132 on: July 20, 2008, 12:22 AM »
Very good question Per.
European climate is certainly different, as for the humidity, they get pretty saturated.  Dan Rush is from my neck of the woods and it's been really hot and humid this last week.

Perhaps they made a tooling change?  Who knows?

It's during every MFG's major product launch that no matter how much you prepare it's this unexpected stuff that causes you grief.   

IMO, for Festool USA The Kapex is Epic, call it the gateway product for NAINA products to start rolling in very soon.


Offline Taos

  • Posts: 227
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #133 on: July 20, 2008, 12:45 AM »
As far as Eiji's mod.  I serious doubt Festool would play hard ball rejecting a warranty claim under these circumstances.
They are reasonable you know?  Besides aren't they sending out parts for the customer to install in hopes of a resolution.

I would of absolutely gotten ticked and done the same thing a Eiji.

Being in the MFG'ing industry myself, I can tell you they probably have known about this for some time and were in a state of Hurricane Katrina syndrome.  Problem is sitting there staring you right in the eye, you know what you needs to be done to remedy the problem however, you go into self preservation mode and deny it even exists.  Until the village comes at you with pitch forks and knives.  

Me personally, I would be hiding this from my wife, she's always on the look out for this kind of Ammo to hit me with, in times when you are down in out she'll finish you off with a kick in the Festool nuts.
 
Funny post vt,
Been laughing for 10 minutes.

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 170
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #134 on: July 20, 2008, 08:33 AM »
Adding to the overall picture.  I received Kapex, new in the box, three days ago. Thought that it was fairly stiff in it's movement. Been too busy to even cut anything with it yet. (Wanted to devote sufficient time when I actually started to put it through it's paces.) Went out this morning and tried rotating it back and forth after reading this thread, and after the first moves were stiff, concurrent ones came up with the sound of metal grating on metal.  We've got 96% humidity this AM with temp around 58 degrees.  Doesn't necessarily seem to be a temperature issue, leastways a high temperature issue. It would be nice to know if this temp with a low humidity level would have provided a different outcome.  The relative humidiy is definitely higher than it was when I unpacked the saw. 

More information for the forum.  Will be viewing future posts here with great interest.

Clint Baxter
Clint

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4910
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #135 on: July 20, 2008, 08:37 AM »
Clint, how about taking it inside for a while?

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7388
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #136 on: July 20, 2008, 08:46 AM »
I thinks me be going that route seein's how I can smell chit from a mile away. None of what has been offered for a fix is working,  and the corporation says what they are fixing is the problem

Tony, the new spring plate fix has worked for some people and they are sending out new saws for those that the fix didn't work, so they do have a fix. Seems one problem is people that are getting replacement saws are getting them from dealers with "old" stock and are having the same problem.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7388
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #137 on: July 20, 2008, 08:59 AM »
As far as Eiji's mod.  I serious doubt Festool would play hard ball rejecting a warranty claim under these circumstances.

What if Eiji's mod catches on here and two hundred people try it and six months down the road it causes a big problem with the saws, what then? As a general rule making modification to power tools is not a good idea.


Quote
Being in the MFG'ing industry myself, I can tell you they probably have known about this for some time and were in a state of Hurricane Katrina syndrome.  Problem is sitting there staring you right in the eye, you know what you needs to be done to remedy the problem however, you go into self preservation mode and deny it even exists. until the village comes at you with pitch forks and knives.  

Yes, Festool knew about this issue before the 7/01 release. All the saws were checked for this issue before shipping. It seems to becoming more and more clear this problem doesn't surface until the heat and/or humidity comes into play.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Tony M

  • Posts: 61
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #138 on: July 20, 2008, 10:07 AM »
]

Tony, the new spring plate fix has worked for some people and they are sending out new saws for those that the fix didn't work, so they do have a fix. Seems one problem is people that are getting replacement saws are getting them from dealers with "old" stock and are having the same problem.
[/quote]  The thing that concerns me right now Brice is if the problem gets solved lickity split or is it going to take months of reconfiguration to the design.

Offline rnt80

  • Posts: 953
    • Agape Wood Design
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #139 on: July 20, 2008, 10:09 AM »
Brice, does that mean if I'm still having a problem I should call Festool and return the saw to them?  I've never had a service issue, beyond this, with them so I don't know the procedure.  I've contacted the dealer and he told me he would get back to me next week after checking with Festool.  Do they send out the product before they get your return or do they wait to receive the defective unit?
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline MiterMaster

  • Posts: 139
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #140 on: July 20, 2008, 10:35 AM »
I thinks me be going that route seein's how I can smell chit from a mile away. None of what has been offered for a fix is working,  and the corporation says what they are fixing is the problem

Tony, the new spring plate fix has worked for some people and they are sending out new saws for those that the fix didn't work, so they do have a fix. Seems one problem is people that are getting replacement saws are getting them from dealers with "old" stock and are having the same problem.

The replacement saw I got direct from Festool (Indiana location), my replacement is dated 05/08 and it has these same issues.  They did overnight me a replacement spring plate which I hope to install today.  Once I get the new plate on I'll post on if it corrected the problem or not.

Mike
McDermott Interiors
Trim Carpentry by Design

Offline MiterMaster

  • Posts: 139
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #141 on: July 20, 2008, 10:53 AM »
.....All the saws were checked for this issue before shipping. It seems to becoming more and more clear this problem doesn't surface until the heat and/or humidity comes into play.....

Hate to put a spin on this thought, but my Kapex has been housed in our basement since I got it, it has not been out on any jobsite.   It's pretty cool down there, say low/mid 70's, not much humidity and it still has grinding / scrapping issues.  Again, Festool did send me a new spring plate, I hope to install today so I'll post once I get it on.

Mike
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 01:00 PM by MiterMaster »
McDermott Interiors
Trim Carpentry by Design

Offline MiterMaster

  • Posts: 139
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #142 on: July 20, 2008, 10:58 AM »
Do they send out the product before they get your return or do they wait to receive the defective unit?

It may be different between dealers how they handle replacements?  My dealer was great about this issue (here's a plug for Bob Marino)!  He arranged for Festool to ship me a replacement Kapex, and this happened before I returned the initial one. 

I received my replacement in 2 days, I'm returning the 1st one tomorrow.  I did not have to wait to send back the 1st saw, they sent my replacement right away, Festool (& my dealer too) do take care of you, don't worry about it!

Mike
McDermott Interiors
Trim Carpentry by Design

Offline Mr Jones

  • Posts: 63
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #143 on: July 20, 2008, 12:40 PM »
I just checked my UK early model, must have been one of the first 5 or 6 my dealer had. so I guess Jun/July last year, little use this year and a bit of travel. Mine does have the rubbing mark on the mitre scale, and sounds a little scratchy when moving it, but never tight been tight or seized. I must have made fewer than a 500 cuts other than 90 degree with this saw, I had felt from the start that the turning was a bit 'non festool', but the kapex has been harder to love than the kit I have.

It has never been really hot. sadly.

Offline hamsey

  • Posts: 29
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #144 on: July 21, 2008, 11:50 AM »
John from Festool came by and replaced my spring plate. It is now silky smooth. Hopefully, it stays like that. Time will tell.

I am pleased the way Festool has handled this. When I contacted John about a replacement saw he told me I was better off with the repair because there was no guarantee that the new saw did not have the problem. That made sense and I am glad I went for the repair.

Norm

Offline Brad Evans

  • Posts: 75
  • SF Bay Area
    • Urban PhotoBlog: Citysnaps
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #145 on: July 22, 2008, 12:05 AM »
>>>   ...  he told me I was better off with the repair because there was no guarantee that the new saw did not have the problem.

Precisely why I'm not considering the saw until this customer beta testing program is concluded and the design is corrected!
Urban PhotoBlog:  www.citysnaps.net/blog

Offline hamsey

  • Posts: 29
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #146 on: July 22, 2008, 07:28 AM »
Used it for a couple of hours last night, swinging the miter from 45? to 45? with no scraping. Checked again in the morning so far so good.

Norm

Offline Matt Antonucci

  • Posts: 76
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #147 on: July 22, 2008, 09:28 AM »
I replaced my Spring Plate on Thursday.  It has been great ever since and I used it a ton this weekend and yesterday...  That definately fixed my problem...



Matt

Offline womackdesign

  • Posts: 66
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #148 on: July 22, 2008, 12:12 PM »
Received my spring plate from Festool yesterday. Replaced it this morning, took 5 minutes and it runs super smooth around the mitre gage. Thanks Bob for sorting out the problem for me. Dewalt 708 relegated to cutting rough stock and dust collection.
Chad

Offline Frank Snyder

  • Posts: 29
Re: Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?
« Reply #149 on: July 22, 2008, 01:33 PM »
Received my spring plate today, installed it and no more scraping! Works like a charm. The new spring plate appears to be thinner and the lever doesn't seem to over ride the indent when raised all the way up.

On a side note, I used my Kapex over the weekend to install some Cherry crown with a bunch of one inch returns...the accuracy of the dual lasers and clean cuts produced perfect results. I even made a zero clearance continuous crown jig for the Kapex (copied from JLC thread) which worked great. However, as with any powered miter saw, I was not so lucky mitering the smaller dentil moldings to wrap around the returns. These cuts were hit and miss as to whether or not the blade caught the material and blew it apart. So I will finish cutting these smaller decorative moldings with a hand saw and miter box...they're just too flimsy.