Author Topic: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought  (Read 2091 times)

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Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 148
Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« on: February 12, 2020, 11:05 AM »
I am about to pull the trigger on a Kapex for my new retirement shop. I am just a serious hobbyist, I will team it up with the Oneida Cyclone dust deputy for the Festool. I have had tremendous success with my dust deputy on my router table. I am wondering what size dust extractor I should get. I will be teaming all this up with the new Fastcap Flex bench. I will also use the extractor for general shop cleanup from time to time. Thinking about adding the Tradesman cleanup kit to the mix

Any wisdom from the group is appreciated.
I am not young enough to know everything!

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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1973
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2020, 11:28 AM »
Just for the Kapex, any size (CT mini, midi, CT26, etc.) will do as the saw dust is collected mostly in the dust deputy bucket. I now use a DD with a shop vac instead. Remember to use a 36mm hose for best results.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 11:31 AM by ChuckM »

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 357
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2020, 11:31 AM »
Doesn't really matter as all the CT's (except SYS) pull roughly the same CFM and have very similar airwatt ratings.   And since you're using a cyclone, the vac bag capacity doesn't really come in to play for you.

You may decide price or size as a CT48 is big $$$ and won't fit in under the bench very well.  You will want to upsize your hose to 36mm at minimum and should consider a 50mm.

My bigger concern would be will the saw last til I retire from retirement ?  Supposedly the motor issues have been fixed, but who knows ?  Part of Kapex's appeal is the compact and light package compared to similar saws.  If you're not mobile, then these advantages go away, yet the motor cloud remains.   Access to reasonably priced blades would also be on my mind if retired.  260mm blades are neither ubiquitous or inexpensive.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1973
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2020, 11:40 AM »
Snip.
 If you're not mobile, then these advantages go away, yet the motor cloud remains. 

I disagree that mobility is the most important selling point of the Kapex, definitely not to me and not to many many Kapex owners who have installed theirs fixed on a sawing station or the like. We own and use the Kapex because it is wonderful in cutting precision, bevel control, dust collection (on one else beats it), workholding (clamp), and above all, delivering consistent quality results (as long as one checks and calibrates the saw, if needed, when it arrives). Anyone who pays the kind of money we paid for a Kapex purely for its mobility is missing a lot on this saw.

From my conversation with the largest local Festool vendor, most Kapexes have been sold by themsleves without the UB base.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 11:50 AM by ChuckM »

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 357
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2020, 11:50 AM »
Never said mobility was the most important thing.  It is a big plus though.

And the corollary is also true.  Those that use it only in fixed base operations are missing a lot on this saw.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1973
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2020, 12:00 PM »
Never said mobility was the most important thing.  It is a big plus though.

And the corollary is also true.  Those that use it only in fixed base operations are missing a lot on this saw.

"If you're not mobile, then these advantages go away" is not the same as "it is a big plus." But I'm glad you clarified it.

Those who install the Kapex fixed are not missing anything as they can always use the mobility if the need arises by putting the saw on a mobile platform. Many table saws or band saws with a mobile base are used "fixed" but it does not mean they can't be moved if necessary. No where in my last response did I suggest that the Kapex should be used in a fixed mode only; I was pointing out that the saw remains great even if it is used in a fixed sawing station.

Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 148
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2020, 01:44 PM »
Thanks for all the clarifications from everyone so far. I was thinking that with the cyclone the actual size of the dust extractor may not matter, I think that since the CFM is about the same maybe the CT26 is the best size for me. I will do a little more research before pulling the trigger

Thanks everyone
I am not young enough to know everything!

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 563
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 03:29 PM »
Hello,

Since you are going to use a cyclone (at least with the Kapex) you could consider the new CT L or M Mini/Midi. Their airflow is very close to CT 26 and larger. The larger ones difference lies in the capacity of the bin, not the suction power.
Reason for suggesting is the Mini/Midi’s size, compactness and features; IF you are going to use it more mobile from time to time. They also have Bluetooth built in, should you consider any Festool tool later with the Bluetooth battery. (It is an add on module available for CT 26 and up, but to an additional cost) Mini/Midi has a blow port as well, manual filter cleaning from an lever on the outside and exchangeable filter drawer from the outside. I’m using mine as for now, with the Kapex 120, and are very pleased with its performance, even with the standard 27/32 hose.
I will later add a larger diameter hose, from advise here, but there’s still very little sawdust with the standard hose.
Regards.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 148
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 03:58 PM »
The dust deputy fits the Mini or Midi?? I don't see the CT L maybe it is not available in North America
I am not young enough to know everything!

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 563
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 05:54 PM »
If you’re thinking of systainer fit, it should yes. Mini/midi has both T-lock and latch lock compatibility.

The “L” might not be available in NA, I have noticed that the mini/midi (only difference is in the bin capacity) comes with HEPA in the US. (Though, the filter drawer and everything else looks the same..) I was told by a dealer here; is that the “M” has some electronic sensors, so when the filter need exchanging or cleaning it beeps.. I was told better buy the L as it is “the same filter” but without audible warning and sensor.. The M was biased towards professionals (I’m a advanced hobbyist) working daily with health threatening dust. IE: plaster, concrete and so on.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1228
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2020, 07:31 PM »
The dust deputy fits the Mini or Midi?? I don't see the CT L maybe it is not available in North America

Are you talking about the new CT? If so, there is no T-Lock but my guess is that fitting the DD on one should be fairly easy.
Mario

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 357
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2020, 11:26 PM »
Never said mobility was the most important thing.  It is a big plus though.

And the corollary is also true.  Those that use it only in fixed base operations are missing a lot on this saw.

"If you're not mobile, then these advantages go away" is not the same as "it is a big plus." But I'm glad you clarified it.

Those who install the Kapex fixed are not missing anything as they can always use the mobility if the need arises by putting the saw on a mobile platform. Many table saws or band saws with a mobile base are used "fixed" but it does not mean they can't be moved if necessary. No where in my last response did I suggest that the Kapex should be used in a fixed mode only; I was pointing out that the saw remains great even if it is used in a fixed sawing station.


coulda , woulda, shoulda  ::)

If you're fixed and don't move the saw - then you don't really care how light it is or easy to grab the handles are , or how compact it is.  So those advantages of Kapex will not be utilized.  If they aren't used then they really aren't advantages.  Except in the abstract - so why pay for them ?   Kapex's dust collection advantage is worthless to me in the shop because I don't use it.  - And undoubtedly part of the reason why it's still running.

Other saws on the market offer lots of the same features of kapex you tout.  Milwaukee's mitersaw is VERY accurate and has really good dust collection.  Makita's new slider is accurate and has good collection too. They cost 1/3 of a Kapex and neither brand has a penchant for burning up motors - ever.  Nice alternatives to Kapex if you're shop based because the Milwaukee weighs more than your average truck, and makita's while not quite as heavy is so wide that it's awkward to carry .

Then there's the reports of the oil leaking from a few new motors and tables that aren't flat/square.  Sure, every make has issues. But I don't expect things like this to continually happen on the market's most expensive saw.   We keep seeing these same reports of issues going back years.  Design should have been bulitproof, and QC should have weeded out the issues that did appear.

Kapex is a nice saw, but people considering one should have the whole picture, not just the rosy idyllic of the marketing dept. and the navy and green faithful.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1973
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2020, 12:30 AM »
Anyone who has been on this forum long enough knows about my critical thoughts on the Kapex which are in the public domain. But as a matter of principles, I won't shy from or apologize for giving credit where credit is due.

To return back to the issue of mobility, CHOOSING not to use the feature of mobility because the owner has no such need DOES NOT take away any advantages of the Kapex. Period.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:47 AM by ChuckM »

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 563
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2020, 03:48 AM »
The dust deputy fits the Mini or Midi?? I don't see the CT L maybe it is not available in North America

Are you talking about the new CT? If so, there is no T-Lock but my guess is that fitting the DD on one should be fairly easy.

I’m talking about this in the photo under. Not the all new CT with no sys dock and hose garage - which I just discovered have been removed from FT homepage🤔)
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 357
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2020, 01:43 PM »
........................if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound ?

we'll just have to disagree.

Except on the motor issues of the orig. kapex.  ;)

Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 148
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2020, 02:30 PM »
to xedos re ......if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound ?

If a man says something and his wife is not there to hear it, is he still wrong?
I am not young enough to know everything!

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 607
Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2020, 10:54 PM »
The appeal of the Kapex to me are:
Light weight
Accurate
Forward rails ( small footprint )
Dust extraction
In that order.
Other manufactures make saws that have some of those points but few have all. If my saw was at a stationary site, the weight and small footprint may not be that important .

Being a mobile contractor , physical size and weight are very important to me.

I also hope the motor issues have been solved , and feel the Festool treatment of this has been very disturbing.
 With the amount of information about the saws problems , it is up to the buyer to decide.
I still will probably buy a Kapex.
YMMV
Cheers, Charlie





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 357
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2020, 08:35 AM »
are you asking if your wife is gonna be mad if you buy a kapex ?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Kapex and CT and Cyclone and cleanup kit advice sought
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2020, 09:15 AM »
All been said really but yeah, in a workshop the DD with a short 36mm hose will be fine.
Mobile, any of the CT’s again with short 36mm hose.
When in the workshop, mine is connected to the main extractor, with a reducer, and 1mtr length of 40mm hose I had kicking around.
The shorter the hose, the better.