Author Topic: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.  (Read 1098 times)

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Offline BarrySumpter

  • Posts: 18
Not sure where this query should be posted.

Can't afford the Kapex vacuums at the mo.
What should I look for in a shop vac to match the Festool Vacuum for the kapex 120.
 
At the moment I have it in a shroud with a hose fitted to the back of the kapex 120.
The other end in one (of 2) 4" hose dust extractor hoses.

Is that enough or should I have a dedicated vacuum?

I've fitted both the zero clearance plate and zero clearance fence.
The dust seems to have increased significantly.

Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 06:50 PM by BarrySumpter »

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Offline gnlman

  • Posts: 210
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2020, 07:33 PM »
Hi. I had a 200 cfm shopvac with a dust deputy on my kapex before buying a festool vac, it worked just fine and deputy kept the filter clean and the suction constant. Adding a zero clearance fence and insert has made my dust collection less effective, or should I say chip collection...I try and only use the fence close together when needed as it caused the dust boot on the kapex to hang up a bit...which hinders the dust collection. You'll find a direct connection to kapex with a high volume shopvac/collector will work much better than a 4 inch dust collector.
Greg

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1702
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 07:51 PM »
I have had a simple, very effective set-up since Day 1 (5 years now):

35mm hose ( a must) for the Kapex, about 3 feet to 4 feet long - see image
Dust Deputy (a must unless you enjoy changing filters)
Autoswitch (a must if you want suction before and after a cut) - https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/parts-and-accessories/63013-ivac-automatic-vacuum-switch (switch to US site if you;re in the US). The switch provides 15amp for the Kapex and 15 amp for the shop vac separately.
A Sears Shop Vac (since I sold the CT26, 3 years ago?)

Also see this for a dust collection improvement to the rubber dust shroud: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-dust-collection-dado-cuts-stache-shroud/msg607780/#msg607780
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 07:58 PM by ChuckM »

Offline BarrySumpter

  • Posts: 18
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2020, 08:10 PM »
OK.  Many thanks gents.
I found I've got an extra cyclone on top of a paint can attached to a 2000w vacuum cleaner I use for vacuuming the car.
I'll see how she goes.

I've also got a few extra AmberTec Amberplugs (rated at 10A) I saved from the big sustainability push we had a few years ago.
They were all free from the government.
I can use them to switch on the vacuum.
Some of them have a 1 min off delay which helps clear some of the remaining dust.

Point being it needs to be dedicated.

Now wondering if I need the huge shroud at all.


 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 08:14 PM by BarrySumpter »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2982
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 09:04 PM »
My experience with Kapex Dust extraction is that high velocity and moderate volume airflow works best. I have a Festool Mini hooked up to the saw through a 36mm short hose. A standard shop vac should work if directly connected.

The more connections between the vac and the saw slow the airflow and thus the collection suffers.
Birdhunter

Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 53
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 09:11 PM »
Any shop vac will be better than none. For a few years I ran a dewalt mitre saw off a $125 shop vac. Not perfect but certainly a big difference to just using the dust bag.


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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1702
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 09:17 PM »

Now wondering if I need the huge shroud at all.

The stache shroud is not suitable when you need to fold the shroud back for cutting thick stock.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2982
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 06:52 AM »
The only time I get more than a light amount of dust is when I am trimming the edge off a board. It is the same with my SawStop. One trick I use is to let the dust collector (Festool Mini direct to the saw through a shortened 36mm hose) have a few seconds to establish a "draw". Then, I saw at the rate where I see the vac keeping up with the dust.
Birdhunter

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7192
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2020, 10:13 AM »

Now wondering if I need the huge shroud at all.


Not really if you get the right set-up. I use a Fein vac with 2 meters of 36 mm hose. A zero clearance fence is used along with a ZC blade insert. Very little dust escapes. I just may try adding the stache and see if that helps.

Online DynaGlide

  • Posts: 689
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2020, 10:29 AM »

Now wondering if I need the huge shroud at all.


Not really if you get the right set-up. I use a Fein vac with 2 meters of 36 mm hose. A zero clearance fence is used along with a ZC blade insert. Very little dust escapes. I just may try adding the stache and see if that helps.

@Cheese

Not a Kapex but on my Dewalt which does have pretty solid dust collection via a similar boot as the Kapex, if I run a zero clearance fence I find the dust collection is  greatly reduced. Are you saying the Kapex doesn't have this issue?
Instagram @matts.garage

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7192
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 11:31 AM »
Not a Kapex but on my Dewalt which does have pretty solid dust collection via a similar boot as the Kapex, if I run a zero clearance fence I find the dust collection is  greatly reduced. Are you saying the Kapex doesn't have this issue?

Hey @DynaGlide   Not a Kapex owner?...sorry, I can't answer your question.  [poke] [poke]


Unfortunately, I really can't as both of the ZCI's have been installed since the beginning so I really don't have any experience with a before & after comparison.

The only help/photo I can offer up is this after slicing off 5 pieces of a 2 x 4. I think that's pretty good dust collection.


Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1907
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 12:06 PM »
@DynaGlide
Pay attention to whether your boot folds over on the fence as you make the cut.  The dust extraction will be reduced if the boot does fold over and better if it's open behind the fence to catch the dust as the blade exits the wood and fence. 
-Raj

Offline johnredl

  • Posts: 12
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2020, 09:47 AM »
Has anyone noticed any difference to suction when using longer (say 4m our so) of hose in comparison to shorter runs like 2m?

I’m using a Pullman shop vac with a dust deputy into a paint can. It’s successful for me but I’m using maybe 1.5-2m of Grey Carbatec flex hose. I’m thinking of buying 4m or so of 36mm and somehow trying to work out how to fit a Festool end on the hose. I’ve heard that the genuine Festool hose is like $200aud our so.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1702
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2020, 12:01 PM »
The shorter the better...up to a limit, of course. Mine used to be 7' - 8', now about 5'.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:04 PM by ChuckM »

Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 53
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2020, 12:37 PM »
Has anyone noticed any difference to suction when using longer (say 4m our so) of hose in comparison to shorter runs like 2m?

I’m using a Pullman shop vac with a dust deputy into a paint can. It’s successful for me but I’m using maybe 1.5-2m of Grey Carbatec flex hose. I’m thinking of buying 4m or so of 36mm and somehow trying to work out how to fit a Festool end on the hose. I’ve heard that the genuine Festool hose is like $200aud our so.
Yes shorter and bigger diameter makes a huge difference. I just swapped my mitre station hose from a 5m 27mm Festool unit to a 1.5m 36mm Bosch one (bought a 5m Bosch hose and cut it down). Made for a really big improvement. The short hose works fine as the CT sits directly below the saw. The Bosch fittings are a perfect fit in the CT and on the (Makita) saw.


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Offline johnredl

  • Posts: 12
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2020, 07:14 PM »
Thanks guys, sounds like what I have is perfect then

Offline BarrySumpter

  • Posts: 18
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2020, 11:17 PM »




130 - 137 cfm
Kapex Vacs - Bag capacity is the big difference.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:14 AM by BarrySumpter »

Offline BarrySumpter

  • Posts: 18
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 12:25 AM »

Offline BarrySumpter

  • Posts: 18
Re: Kapex 120 dust extraction. Can I make do with shop vac.
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 12:36 AM »
Is there a way to calculate the CFM from the following specs:

220-240V - 60/60hz 2000W

Not enough sleep last night to focus properly:
https://www.pickvacuumcleaner.com/vacuum-cleaner-specifications/

(Air Flow (in CFM) x Vacuum (in inches of water lift))/8.5 = Air Watts


« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:55 AM by BarrySumpter »