Author Topic: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?  (Read 59616 times)

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Offline amt

  • Posts: 379
Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« on: September 09, 2013, 09:11 PM »
Just wondering how people feel about ripping stock that is already quite narrow, like 2-3".   Let's say you have a bunch of boards that are 3-1/8", and they all need to be 3".  This would be a very simple and very fast job on a table saw.  I am, however, having trouble doing this efficiently and accurately with the track saw.

First, you need some more material with the same height, to put to the left of the stock to cut, so the track has full support (so it wont tilt to the left), and something to clamp the track to -not that big of a deal.  The real problem I have is that the material to cut is not really secured in any way.  It's not clamped to the track because the t-slots are on the right side of the track.  And since you typically start & plunge the saw before the material, then push in to the material, at first there is very little pressure on material (from the track).  I experienced on occasion that the material moves right when engaging it.

Does anyone have any suggestions to ensure the material stays put?  Some sort of clamping that does not interfere with the path of the cut?

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Offline RL

  • Posts: 3040
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 09:16 PM »
There are a few techniques that FOGgers have come up with in the past. Here is mine.


Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 09:19 PM »
Here's a thread on the subject also, some useful info there if you can ignore the metric derailment. http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/how-to-efficiently-rip-a-bunch-of-strips-with-a-track-saw/
+1

Offline fidelfs

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 09:27 PM »
Check this video from Guido Henn at 2:30 he starts cutting small strips and he uses a ingenious clamp.




There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline deepcreek

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 10:01 PM »
Does anyone have any suggestions to ensure the material stays put?  Some sort of clamping that does not interfere with the path of the cut?

I prefer to use a tablesaw for narrow rips but have done them with my TS55.

I use a few strips of blue painters tape to secure another board to the one being cut.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline amt

  • Posts: 379
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 10:44 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions.  The creative clamping should probably work to keep the material in place.  I guess the only downside is that it's probably going to be slower than table saw method.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 11:28 PM »
I believe RMV devolved a simple narrow strip jig that attaches to your rail.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 11:40 PM »
To keep narrow pieces from sliding clamp or otherwise  attach  a piece of scrap at the run out end of the rail to push the piece being cut against.


Seth

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1378
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 11:57 PM »
Narrow stock ripdogs work GREAT!  I have been very impressed with their accuracy and ease of use.  No extra material needed.  ripdogs.com

I have no interest in the company what so ever.

Offline ceddy

  • Posts: 149
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 10:25 AM »
If I need to rip a few boards (6-9 inch wide) into 2 inch strips or so, I use the parallel guides. Makes the cuts easy, safe and accurate. To keep everything stable while cutting I place some more boards or pieces of the same thickness under the guide rail behind the piece I am cutting. You only need to do this when your stock is narrower then the guide rail in the first place.

I have most all the festool tools and for me the guide rails are really what transform the TS saws into table saws. Along with the kapex UG stand you can really produce accurate cuts.


Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1039
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 06:46 PM »
Used to do it a lot for face frame parts and so on.  Had an 8' long ripping platform made of plywood.  It had a fence of sorts and I used gauge blocks to set the rip width.  Supported the guide as necessary with other pieces the same thickness.

Never had much trouble with pieces moving.  It just wasn't a problem.

I could cut very thin pieces from very thin pieces.  For example......

92260-0

92262-1

92264-2

92266-3

92268-4

How's that for a thin rip from a thin piece?

A tablesaw is faster and more "normal" but a track saw is pretty cool.



The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1378
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 07:52 PM »
Narrow stock rip guides can do that easily without an extra platform..
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 07:54 PM by rljatl »

Offline bigGaloot

  • Posts: 25
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 09:31 PM »
Does anyone have any suggestions to ensure the material stays put?  Some sort of clamping that does not interfere with the path of the cut?

I prefer to use a tablesaw for narrow rips but have done them with my TS55.

I use a few strips of blue painters tape to secure another board to the one being cut.

+1 Sometimes one needs to use a table saw... for efficiency.  I'll use the TS if I have one cut to make from thin stock, but rarely is that the case. 

I will say that I have downsized my table saw to a compact version... solely because of the TS... and that has made more room in the van.

Offline amt

  • Posts: 379
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 11:26 PM »
I guess I need to improve my technique.  I would have never guessed one could rip something like that, where the height is more than the width.  I would have thought even the slightest wobble could happen easily.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2013, 11:35 PM »
I guess I need to improve my technique.  I would have never guessed one could rip something like that, where the height is more than the width.  I would have thought even the slightest wobble could happen easily.

You just need to make sure the piece is supported in the right places with a flat platform underneath.

Seth

Offline hrrb

  • Posts: 187
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 01:55 AM »
Check this video from Guido Henn at 2:30 he starts cutting small strips and he uses a ingenious clamp.






...and a cheap bastard like me not having an MFT find the cutting board at 5:50 very smart!  [tongue] I have to make one of those for right angled cuts.

/Henrik

Offline fshanno

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 02:13 AM »
I guess I need to improve my technique.  I would have never guessed one could rip something like that, where the height is more than the width.  I would have thought even the slightest wobble could happen easily.

That was a demo for a thread about this same topic years ago on the FOG.  I remembered it and found the pictures.  What I was shooting for was something that would be a challenge on a table saw.  Now very thin rips are routine on a tablesaw, especially if the keeper can be on the side away from the fence.  But how about an 8 foot long  0.160" wide rip from a piece that starts out a little less than 1/2" wide?  The would be very interesting on a tablesaw don't you thing?  And maybe a little scary?  Personally I wouldn't attempt it, riving knife or no riving knife.   Yet the TS55 handled it.

Even in production that kind of accuracy, one or two thousandths was routine with that ripping platform.   As good as a table saw.  Just slower.  In the end the slower part was decisive.  I bought a cabinet saw.
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline Mark Enomoto

  • Posts: 269
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 03:40 PM »
I've been tempted to buy a Bosch site saw to complement Festool as ripping thin stuff AND repeatedly is the achilles heel of the Festool system. It can be done, but in a production environment (not mine) time is more valuable... what I've concepted here is akin to a flap on an airplane wing that is adjustable from 0mm thickness to however wide the flap is. Like a flap on a wing, this moves up and down relative to the thickness of the board.

92290-0

Offline RL

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2015, 12:36 PM »
Here's a simple jig I put together to cut 20 identical thin table legs with my TS55.


Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2015, 12:21 AM »
it is annoying to cut thin stock with the ts. every saw has its own place in the shop. this however isnt something i like setting up.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

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Offline RL

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2015, 07:13 AM »
I was trying to show how ripping thin stock doesn't have to be difficult or "annoying."

Offline Holmz

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2015, 08:02 AM »
I've been tempted to buy a Bosch site saw to complement Festool as ripping thin stuff AND repeatedly is the achilles heel of the Festool system.
...

The Bosch clamp slot nearest the splitter strip is about a cm back from the cut.
It is not as easy as a table saw, but it does make it possible and practical to cut thin strips.
Whether it makes more sense to buy a second track saw, or get a small table saw depends on the usual cost, usage and other factors.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2015, 08:33 AM »
Nice jig Richard!  Always enjoy seeing how you come up with simple jigs that maximize the abilities of you saw.

Peter

Offline Woodwork Wizard

  • Posts: 431
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2015, 08:36 AM »
Is ripping narrow stock the TS Achilles heel?

Not at all if you have an MFT/3 and a CMS angle guide. Or you could use bench dogs as a fence and use the MFT/3 protractor in exactly the same way.

It's very accurate, really quick to set up and it is completely safe - I've regularly cut thin strips from 1 - 200mm, though I do have a hardwood block (see photo) as an extension fence that stops thin offcuts from moving. As long as there's plenty of material under the guide rail this method works flawlessly. 

There's 3 strips at the bottom right of photo that are all exactly the same width.




Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2015, 12:12 PM »
It is an achilles heel if we are talking true productivity, it's not really a drawback, a Track saw just doesn't excel as it. The only reason to use a Track saw for thin pieces , IMHO is if its the only saw available for the task.

I can resaw 3" thick or wide pieces on a table saw, I don't because I have a bandsaw and it's meant for the purpose without an extra jig.

I cut off the stack of ply with a track saw, I don't lug my table saw to the pile and toss the sheets across it becasue the Track saw is much simpler to move around than a 4x8 sheet piece of ply.  And it doesn't require a jig or an out feed table etc.

I cut thin and narrow pieces on a table saw. I use my DeWalt 7491, which by the way has the best fence I have ever seen on a  stock table saw for  thin and narrow pieces. This table saw  excels at it.

1 : Fence in regular position, notice the black push stick held tightly in place on the left side of the fence and the second thin  stock fence to the left:



2:

This shows the flipping the thin stock fence over to the right:



3: This shows the thin stock fence in the down useable position to the right of the main fence This is the best system I have seen with a stock fence. The flip fence works very well for cutting thin AND narrow stock and takes seconds to flip back and forth. No matter what track saw or jig set used with a track saw, its just not going to work as well as this. If productivity is the key I suggest getting a table saw to compliment the track saw.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 12:16 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2015, 12:57 PM »
I feel like ripping thin stock is actually extremely easy and quick with the right setup. I use my 4' x 8' Mft in partnership with precision rip dogs, bench dogs and clamps. Also if it is 16-20 mm I stack them and do two at once for the mirrored parts. I do have to say if I had the Festool parallel guides and extensions I feel like I could rip thin material way faster than a table saw/edge jointer can. I actually raced my mentor not to long ago making a standard cabinet doors rail and stile and I wooped him with my TS setup. He tried it though and it took him 4 times as long. So I feel it is what you are used to. Also, I use my TS to cut quarter sawn edge banding about 1-2 mm thick. It really gets a clean cut for that thin. When I do it I always straight line 1/2 a blades width off of my dimensional lumber. Cut as many 1-2 mm strips as I can first to use up my scrap. So than instead of having 20,000 5-20mm twigs of scrap I have nice roles of quarter dawn edge banding. It's a good way to save scrap.

Offline jacko9

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2015, 01:17 PM »
This all sounds like a whole lot of work just to avoid using a table saw which is (in my opinion) safer for ripping thin strips and a whole lot quicker.

Jack

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2015, 01:39 PM »
I am with you jacko9.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 01:44 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tayler_mann

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2015, 03:58 PM »
This all sounds like a whole lot of work just to avoid using a table saw which is (in my opinion) safer for ripping thin strips and a whole lot quicker.

Jack

I have found it all comes to one thing, "preferences". Table saws are great but also great at creating more work of inaccurate and poor quality (ie. Contractor saws). Also, it depends on your applications of what you are doing. If you are building a piece that you plan to have someone spend $250 great. If that same piece with more intrict details is being sold for $1,000 you better have some darn perfect construction and I find it easier with my TS. I can mirror parts easily, rip them perfectly square and 90 first go about with 0 kerf marks. It just seems to work better for me than my cheaper table saw.

Offline bkharman

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Re: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2015, 04:01 PM »
I like my "best of both worlds".

A TS 55 for rail work, and my TS 75 under a plate in my CMS. It has worked great for everything I throw at it!

I know not everyone can go that route but if space is tight, it is a great solution!!

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?