Author Topic: Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel? (Read 71325 times)

Tinker · « **Reply #60 on:** September 27, 2015, 05:38 AM »

@ Corwin,
Don't give up the jig. There are some of us who struggle with written explanations. Uh, certainly not me. I tell my wife i am the smartest man in the world. she doesn't believe me either. for some of us (all the other guys, not me

) the drawings and animates are most helpful. I am eagerly awaiting your next animation.

In reality, I almost never understand written directions until after several repeats. I do have a much easier time with diagrams, blue prints, animations (of which you seem to be very talented) and any visuals. That is strange to me, as i have double vision. My handicap does lead to some activity problems, but, as I suspect with your own handicap, there is always a way. The fact that I see double should make it more difficult to understand visuals, but that is not the case.

I had thought you just got tired of the FOG and that's why I had not noticed any of your postings. Or i had just not tuned into any of your postings. Sorry to find you have been handicapped. I am glad you are back with us.
Tinker

Holmz · « **Reply #61 on:** September 27, 2015, 07:39 AM »

Quote from: Corwin on September 27, 2015, 01:25 AM

... So, that may be my inability to communicate well enough
...
But it does bother me to learn that I cannot express myself in a way in which others can readily understand.
...

It takes two to communicate.
I would suggest that you not use my inattentiveness and comprehension as a gauge of your communication skill. At best it is a gauge of our joint-communication.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #62 on:** September 27, 2015, 07:58 AM »

Corwin, can't wait to see the final version!

Peter

CrazyLarry · « **Reply #63 on:** September 27, 2015, 08:41 AM »

Quote from: Corwin on September 27, 2015, 03:35 AM

Maybe this is a waste of my time. Heck, if I cannot explain this in a way in which others can understand and my animation is considered clear as mud, then I certainly have failed. It just takes far too much time to continue with this animation if nobody will understand how this works. I am disappointed. Oh, well.

Like the others have said don't be daft, it's me that doesn't get it, unlike Tinker I need a few words (to get the objective) and stills (simulates practice I guess) to pick up the technique / process. The animation is clever but makes me feel like I'm staring into the eyes of shere khan and forget to focus on what's going on!!!

and just because one person (or 10) doesn't 'get it' is no reason at all to give up.

I shall try again this eve ...

fattywilliams · « **Reply #64 on:** September 27, 2015, 12:32 PM »

hi i was just reading the early post in this and it seems bosch rail system would help as you can clap alot nearer the cutting edge wich got me thinking has anyone thought of modifying or making a clamp for the festool rail which would slide in slot on bottom of rail but instead of being parallel like the standard one have it sitting at 90 degrees just with clamping foot just back from the cutting edge

Tayler_mann · « **Reply #65 on:** September 27, 2015, 12:53 PM »

Quote from: fattywilliams on September 27, 2015, 12:32 PM

hi i was just reading the early post in this and it seems bosch rail system would help as you can clap alot nearer the cutting edge wich got me thinking has anyone thought of modifying or making a clamp for the festool rail which would slide in slot on bottom of rail but instead of being parallel like the standard one have it sitting at 90 degrees just with clamping foot just back from the cutting edge

Wouldn't you like to know when my CNC mill has a day of no jobs to run through it.

I am definitely going to try to make a clamp out of the MFT table screw clamps and make my own articulating arm clamp. They will not be sold as I would have to buy another mill but could give some people a good idea hopefully to make their own. I feel if you had a welder it would be pretty easy with a few nuts and t channel bolts and a set of clamps with some slight modifications.

Holmz · « **Reply #66 on:** September 27, 2015, 05:39 PM »

Quote from: fattywilliams on September 27, 2015, 12:32 PM

hi i was just reading the early post in this and it seems bosch rail system would help as you can clap alot nearer the cutting edge wich got me thinking has anyone thought of modifying or making a clamp for the festool rail which would slide in slot on bottom of rail but instead of being parallel like the standard one have it sitting at 90 degrees just with clamping foot just back from the cutting edge

The pictures/sketch suggested that three was a slot on the top
Of that channel already, and I don't think it can have a slot on both sides.

Rusty Miller · « **Reply #67 on:** September 29, 2015, 01:11 PM »

@Corwin
Please don't stop with your postings and animations. I have followed you for a long time on the FOG and am always excited with what you are working on. Keep up the good work and come up with some plans for this when finished.

Rusty

Corwin · « **Reply #68 on:** September 29, 2015, 02:00 PM »

Quote from: Rusty Miller on September 29, 2015, 01:11 PM

@Corwin
Please don't stop with your postings and animations. I have followed you for a long time on the FOG and am always excited with what you are working on. Keep up the good work and come up with some plans for this when finished.

Rusty

Thanks, Rusty. But no, I do not plan on continuing with the animation. It is simply far, far, far too much time and effort for something that has proved not to be as useful as I had hoped. It was a fun learning experience for me, as I hadn't ever spent the time to get the hang of SketchUp in the past, and I thought it would be a fun way to illustrate my methods, but I guess it just is more than others can follow.

I've looked through my drawing file and figure that I could just make a few adjustments here and there and make a few screen shots with commentary. That would be quick, as I have already drawn up everything, just hadn't finished with the animation. This way, others could stare at the illustrations and try to see what is going on, rather than having the images fly on by... I'll think about this during the week and see if I want to proceed or not. I would have thought that someone would have figured out what I was attempting to explain, and would have tried it by now and got back to tell how well that worked. I'm still waiting... Heh, heh. Oh, just kidding.

My father was great at making all sorts of jigs for a variety of purposes. He was known world wide within his field for a product he manufactured for his industry. So, I guess I must have come on my jig-making ability honestly, so to speak. "Its in my jeans," he would tell me.

He was a talented man, and I was lucky to have him for a father.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #69 on:** September 29, 2015, 02:19 PM »

These were ripped with the TS-55.

It was mentioned the cut off piece can become a projectile as the can/do on a table saw. With the narrow piece under the rail there is no way it is going anywhere. The friction strip holds the piece firmly in place.

I prefer ripping with the TS saws over any table saw I've ever used. The TS-55 is much safer to use than most contractors table saws.

Tom

Corwin · « **Reply #70 on:** September 29, 2015, 04:37 PM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on September 29, 2015, 02:19 PM

These were ripped with the TS-55.

It was mentioned the cut off piece can become a projectile as the can/do on a table saw. With the narrow piece under the rail there is no way it is going anywhere. The friction strip holds the piece firmly in place.

I prefer ripping with the TS saws over any table saw I've ever used. The TS-55 is much safer to use than most contractors table saws.

Tom

Perfect, Tom! I couldn't agree more with every word you've written. I've always been more of a private person in the past, but less so these days. I would not have mentioned my disability publicly here, but I did so in this case as testimony, if you will, to the ease of using these tools and methods as opposed to, in this instance, a table saw. This 'ease of use' has enabled me to do some things that my disability would otherwise prevent. My condition is not anywhere as dire as those that suffer from ALS like you may have become familiar with recently with the 'bucket challenge,' but it is in the same family of involuntary movement disorders ~~in which mankind simply does not yet fully understand~~. Many things are extremely difficult at times. Even simple things like getting dressed. Or eating a meal armed with hazardous, and sharp utensils. Fortunately for me I have a great disposition -- well, most of the time, that is.

Point being, cutting thin strips from pieces that are already narrower than the GuideRail is by no means the 'Achilles Heel' as some would have you believe. They just haven't discovered the right method yet. That's all.

Oh, and I also concur with your assessment with the need for [or the lack of any such need of] a backstop. The best aspect of such an addition would likely be that of eliminating/reducing tear-out. I've never had a piece fly off. Yet, I saw a kid do that with a table saw when I was in, oh, 7th grade -- not something you forget, but something best learned from someone else's mistake, if you catch my drift.

The next day that same kid cut off a finger using that table saw.

You all have a great day! My wife is calling me to have a meal, so wish me luck!

Ha, ha, ha.

Corwin · « **Reply #71 on:** October 09, 2015, 04:05 PM »

Quote from: Corwin on September 29, 2015, 02:00 PM

Quote from: Rusty Miller on September 29, 2015, 01:11 PM
@Corwin
Please don't stop with your postings and animations. I have followed you for a long time on the FOG and am always excited with what you are working on. Keep up the good work and come up with some plans for this when finished.

Rusty

Thanks, Rusty. But no, I do not plan on continuing with the animation. It is simply far, far, far too much time and effort [... yada, yada, yada ...]

Okay, I did take 7 or 8 days away from the project, except a few moments to make some screen shots to help others understand the basic principal on which these jigs have been designed and operate -- like this one:

Is ripping narrow stock the TS achilles heel?

Here's a link to my latest update: The SketchUp discussion at talkFestool

scgwhite · « **Reply #72 on:** October 09, 2015, 04:34 PM »

Wow - that video you've linked to is great, and a lot of work. Thanks for the effort you are putting into the community.

Corwin · « **Reply #73 on:** October 09, 2015, 05:54 PM »

Quote from: scgwhite on October 09, 2015, 04:34 PM

Wow - that video you've linked to is great, and a lot of work. Thanks for the effort you are putting into the community.

Thank you!

Peter Halle · « **Reply #74 on:** October 09, 2015, 07:53 PM »

Corwin,

Hey Buddy you you rocked it

Peter

jacko9 · « **Reply #75 on:** October 09, 2015, 08:18 PM »

Corwin,

I'm sure your method of ripping stock with a track saw is good for people without table saws but, just in case any younger starters to the trade read this I want to say again that a table saw is quicker and safer and for every instance you cite about fingers, flying stock,etc. I'm sure that people trying to use a track saw to rip narrow stock have their own horror stories as well and I know the time element is without question faster on the table saw.

I only post this because the title of this post will lead people here searching for answers and I want the answers to be fair and balanced.

Jack (with 10 fingers)

Corwin · « **Reply #76 on:** October 09, 2015, 09:48 PM »

Quote from: jacko9 on October 09, 2015, 08:18 PM

Corwin,

I'm sure your method of ripping stock with a track saw is good for people without table saws but, just in case any younger starters to the trade read this I want to say again that a table saw is quicker and safer and for every instance you cite about fingers, flying stock,etc. I'm sure that people trying to use a track saw to rip narrow stock have their own horror stories as well and I know the time element is without question faster on the table saw.

I only post this because the title of this post will lead people here searching for answers and I want the answers to be fair and balanced.

Jack (with 10 fingers)

I cannot agree with your assessment of the safety aspect at all. But, I wouldn't argue with the speed of a table saw versus that of using a track saw no matter what the method. I hope that I didn't lead anyone to think that. Rather, my method is much faster than any method using a track saw that also involves clamping the rail to the workpiece. Those methods simply don't stand a chance by any stretch of one's imagination. And that is what I was referring to as to the speed of my methods. Sorry if I left any confusion.

jacko9 · « **Reply #77 on:** October 09, 2015, 10:01 PM »

Corwin, while you have devised a great way to use the track saw, others have devised safe ways to use the table saw like the "L Fence" that takes your fingers away from the blade. My first Table Saw was a Swiss Inca that had an adjustable splitter that minimized any kick back (and I never experienced any kick back).

So while I love my Track Saw for cutting up sheet goods and trimming doors or large panels, I would never give up my Powermatic 66 Table Saw with the Excalibur Sliding Table. While it's nowhere in the same league as the Felder saw, it does the job safely and quickly.

I agree that your method of ripping narrow stock is great for those with only a track saw.

Jack

Corwin · « **Reply #78 on:** October 09, 2015, 10:21 PM »

By all means, rip away.

See, I do not own a table saw.

But, if I did own a table saw, I certainly would make jigs to perform the operations that it was not otherwise readily setup to accomplish. You know the jigs I'm talking about. Would you not think that a person owning a table saw that didn't use/make a cross cut sled or any of the other typical jigs one uses with their saw was rather lacking in their skill and knowledge? Isn't the same true for a track saw?

As I see it, there are a number of operations where placing the guide rail by simply aligning its splinter guard to the intended cut line is the perfect solution. However, if you are making multiple pieces alike, wanting to align square to an adjacent edge or parallel with an opposite edge, then aligning using the splinter guard is just not the best method. It may be all you have at your disposal in some situations, but if you don't have anything more in your "toolbox," you just might not be as good with your tools as you think...

jacko9 · « **Reply #79 on:** October 10, 2015, 12:52 AM »

I don't think we disagree and I'm old enough to remember turnip trucks!

Corwin · « **Reply #80 on:** October 10, 2015, 01:17 AM »

Quote from: jacko9 on October 10, 2015, 12:52 AM

I don't think we disagree and I'm old enough to remember turnip trucks!

Just as long as you're quick enough to get out of their way, as I'm not too sure about the guy behind the wheel.

And, no, I don't think we disagree either. I wish they had such safety equipment on all table saws back when I used them. I was always a little on the cautious side using them. Now they are out of the question for my specific disability. But the track saw is doable for me. Well, except when used in conjunction with certain medications, that is. One of my FS1900/2 Rails has three slight cuts in it, all three cut one after the other making the same error three (yes, 3) times in succession. Wasn't it Einstein that considered that to be the definition of insanity? Heh, heh. Anyway, I didn't continue to take those meds for long.

Holmz · « **Reply #81 on:** October 10, 2015, 03:21 AM »

That nails it really.
You're doing what you like, and while a table saw is the traditional go-to tool, you are come up with a process that allows you to get the results you want with a table saw being out of the question.
And sharing that makes it possible for others to chin-scratch for ways to apply it.

My hat is off to you.

Tinker · « **Reply #82 on:** October 10, 2015, 08:17 AM »

There is no way, in a small area shop, that a table saw can be easier, safer than the track saw. For small jobs, ripping and crosscutting might be quicker. Anything that takes up anymore space than the table saw and its walk-around-area, the track saw is in a class of its own.

@ Corwin, thanks for all of your effort. my computer has spam block, so it cut out as soon as it noticed your rip setup.

Tinker

jobsworth · « **Reply #83 on:** October 11, 2015, 04:55 AM »

I had a big stationary saw, but after I started using festools, I very seldom used it. I gave it away to a buddy.. I did use it occasionally for thin strips but it was to much of a hassle to roll it out, set it up make the one or 2 quick cuts and take everything off and push it back. The track saw is so much easier.

Now that I got a CMS module I do use it for thin strips, but again it depends, if I have to break down the router table to Put in the TS the guide rail is so much faster and easier.

Rusty Miller · « **Reply #84 on:** October 11, 2015, 10:23 AM »

Corwin,
Glad you continued with the animation. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. If you come up with some plans I'll buy a set.

Thanks for all your work on this.

Rusty

Corwin · « **Reply #85 on:** October 11, 2015, 12:12 PM »

Quote from: Rusty Miller on October 11, 2015, 10:23 AM

Corwin,
Glad you continued with the animation. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. If you come up with some plans I'll buy a set.

Thanks for all your work on this.

Rusty

Thanks, Rusty. There will not be any plans for sale. But I am happy to provide any plans you like free of charge.

You see, the jigs I show in the video really were designed specifically to be simple to construct. These are meant to be 'entry level' jigs. You will NOT need a tape measure, square, marking tools, or anything other than your guide rail and saw, along with some sheet material (MDF) to make the first version I show. The 'hinged' version only adds the requirement of a router to route the rebate for the piano hinge, and optionally the dados for the fences, and, of course, a piano hinge and the associated hardware.

These jigs can be made to any length you want. Depending on your narrow-ripping needs, you may want to make yours 4' to 5' in length, for use with a FS1900/2 rail, or a full 8' for use with a long rail or joined rails. The width can be around 36" or less, depending on if you use the hinged wing and the width of that wing. You can figure what you need -- consider that the rail is around 7-1/4" in width, and you can see that we don't need too much more than that to the right of the shorter 'work' fence, as we are using this jig when cutting material that is already narrower than the width of the rail to start with, aren't we? And you can see what you will need to the left of the fence...

The fences do impose a limit of sorts. The shorter 'work' fence establishes a lower limit, as the height of this fence must NOT exceed the thickness of the material that you wish to cut. So, the distance that this fence stands proud of the base establishes a minimum thickness of material you can cut. However, you could always add some, say, 1/4" sheet material on either side to accommodate thinner material.

The taller 'back' fence need not be any taller than the maximum material thickness your saw can handle, plus the thickness of your rail. So, for the TS55, anything taller than around 2-3/4" is deadwood.

I don't offer dimensions for a reason. If you try to construct these jigs by measuring, you may easily make a mistake. Instead, make them as illustrated in the animation. It really is 'almost' as easy as it looks. But, you have to give it a try to know first hand... (It is much, much harder to create this animation than it is to create any of my jigs -- So, I've done my part, now you will have to do your part. heh, heh

)

Oh, and I've updated the video, yet again. Just a little more progress, that's all.

Latest Update of my Animation

So, Rusty, it is Sunday. I gather you have the day off work? Or were you doing something else today? Pick a day -- any day -- when you have some spare time [only a little time is needed] and try making the hinged version, if you like, and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have with the process. Just be warned; jig making may become addicting. Just saying'.

JimS_1984 · « **Reply #86 on:** October 11, 2015, 03:29 PM »

Corwin,
This is absolutely top-shelf. A wonderful idea and artfully presented.

I sold my table saw ten years ago to make room for house-barf in our garage, and pretty much walked away from the hobby. The TS55 and Domino 500 are bringing me back, but I've not been happy ripping narrow stock. You've shown how to do it safely and, in contrast to some of the other solutions, without much fuss.

If you'd like to respond or PM your favorite charity, I'll make a modest donation in recognition of the huge effort you put into explaining the fabrication of this simple but clever jig. Pay it forward.

Corwin · « **Reply #87 on:** October 11, 2015, 04:01 PM »

Quote from: JimSpence on October 11, 2015, 03:29 PM

Corwin,
This is absolutely top-shelf. A wonderful idea and artfully presented.

I sold my table saw ten years ago to make room for house-barf in our garage, and pretty much walked away from the hobby. The TS55 and Domino 500 are bringing me back, but I've not been happy ripping narrow stock. You've shown how to do it safely and, in contrast to some of the other solutions, without much fuss.

If you'd like to respond or PM your favorite charity, I'll make a modest donation in recognition of the huge effort you put into explaining the fabrication of this simple but clever jig. Pay it forward.

Thank you so much for your kind words. They are payment enough. If you do take the time to try out my methods and learn more on how to use your guide rails, I will be pleased. And if learning these simple steps leads you to take it all to the next level, them my mission here will have been a success.

I have it in mind to do a somewhat complete overview of the guide rail and its use. This narrow rip jig would be, oh, maybe chapter 3 or 4, after having first established methods for square and parallel. Then some MFT stuff that just might cause some to kick their dog(s)...

squawkin · « **Reply #88 on:** October 11, 2015, 05:19 PM »

What a great idea. I will try this method.

Rusty Miller · « **Reply #89 on:** October 11, 2015, 07:44 PM »

Corwin,
Thanks for the reply and the new video. It is definatly clearer now. For the hinged model I assume you are setting the router bit depth to kiss the top of the ridge on the rail that the hinge will be fastened to. What size router bit are you using? 3/4"
And yes I'm off today but I have a lot going at the moment (trying to clean out our garage and make some selving. Also I don't have any extra sheet goods at the moment to make the jig out of.
I know what you mean about making jigs, they make a lot of jobs so much easier and much more accurate.
Again thanks for all the work you put into this, I will definatly try to make one of these soon.

Rusty