Author Topic: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?  (Read 3904 times)

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Offline MaurizioVacca

  • Posts: 18
How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« on: January 11, 2022, 04:43 AM »
Hello,

as per subject, I'm looking for a convenient way to achieve repeatable cross cuts on sheet goods. So far, I've done everything with a tape measure, my TS55 and a square.

It's quite accurate if you take your time to setup everything properly, but it's extremely time consuming and easy to mess up. Since I've few incoming projects where I have some cuts that are 180x61cm, I'm trying to figure out how to do said job precisely and quickly.

Generally it's the kind of work you do with a sliding table saw, but the Precisio CS50 (which I own) is too light and unstable to handle panels of these dimensions (also doesn't have a fence long enough to do that). I already tried to do that with a desk top, and even if at the end of the day it worked out, it didn't feel safe enough (also considering we were two holding the panel).

I got a quote for a Hammer K3, but unfortunately there's no way I can move it upstairs, so for now it's a no no.

So, this leaves me with few options, but I know there are a lot of cabinet maker with small and "no sliding table saw" shops, so I'm just curious on how you handle such big cuts: multiple MFT setup? Roller blocks/brakets?

Thanks,

Maurizio

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Offline zachjowi

  • Posts: 62
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2022, 06:49 AM »
I use my TS75 or TS55 with TSO parallel guides.  Set it to what you need and just keep moving across the sheet.

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/tpg-parallel-guide-system/

Offline jaguar36

  • Posts: 240
    • Toolamanjaro.com
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2022, 07:13 AM »
I use the MFT with the miter gauge and flag stops for repetitive cuts. 

If it doesn't fit on that I setup the parallel guides and use the TS55 on the track.

Offline MaurizioVacca

  • Posts: 18
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2022, 07:36 AM »
Aren't the parallel guides for rip cuts or I'm misunderstanding them? Let's say I've to cut to 150cm length several MDF sheets: can they handle that? As far I knew most parallel guides have max 120cm capacity.

Offline stueym

  • Posts: 8
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2022, 08:01 AM »
Maurizio

I think you were asking about supporting such large panels during the cuts.  I’ve done this two ways.

1./. Now I use the STM 1800 with an insulation panel underneath.  The 180cm looks like a crosscut if you are cutting down a larger panel.  Personally I’d just use the Rail (or rails joined with the connectors) with clamps across the panel to get to 180cm (5.9ft) then use the Festool Parallel guides to do each of the 61cm cuts (2ft).

2./.  Previously I used my MFT table plus the extension table from the MW1000 workstation connected to the MFT to support the panel while I used the same rail/s combination for the long cut and Parallel guide for the cross cuts.

3./.  Of course you can just get a large sheet of insulation foam and place it on your garage/workshop floor and cut down there.  Removes the need for buying MFT/STM tables.  Just hard on the knees and back for lots of those panel cuts :-)

Hope this helps

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2472
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2022, 08:49 AM »
" Just hard on the knees and back for lots of those panel cuts :-)"

I use three inexpensive folding horses to support a 2" thick foam panel as my cutting surface.

The whole setup cost me less than $75 including the foam, but that was about 7 years ago.

I bought a two pack of these on sale for $49. when I got home and opened the package I found that one of the horses was damaged and not from shipping it had to have happened during manufacture. So I contacted DeWalt and they said they would send me a replacement and I should have it in about a week. Eight days later I get the shipment but it is for a package of two horses, not just the one I needed replaced. Called DeWalt and they said keep the extra horse, so that's how I ended up with three. And it's actually better as three makes a more stable support for that 4x8 sheet of 2 inch foam which was less than $20 back then.

I see these same horses are now $39 each at HD. You might find them for less elsewhere. You can adjust the height which is helpful depending on what you are working on.

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3629
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2022, 08:58 AM »
I was building a large reception desk (4 sides with the 2 longest being right at 8' long and 5 feet high), a 18" wide top piece that ran along all sides, an interior desk surface, and 2 sets of drawers. It was a very complex project as I could not carry the 4'X8' sheets of 3/4" Baltic birch downstairs to my shop. Just too heavy and awkward. So, all the cutting was done in my garage on top of hard foam panels I bought at Home Depot. I used my TS55, long rails, and a Woodpecker framing square. I measured each cut several times before sawing. I did the drawers in my shop using a SawStop Industrial table saw. Pieces were joined with Dominos and screws. The customer hired a professional painter to paint the desk. She later replaced the wood top I made with marble.

All the cuts came out perfectly square. I didn't have a rail long enough for the 8' cuts so I joined two shorter rails. I have a long Starrett straight edge that I used to check the joined rails. The connector worked well. All the exposed edges were trimmed with oak edging that I trimmed with a hand plane and then sanded.

The first time is all came together was in the customer's salon. Darn! I was nervous! I had put sections together in my garage, but not the whole this as my space was too limited. The thing came together perfectly.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 09:00 AM by Birdhunter »
Birdhunter

Online afish

  • Posts: 875
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2022, 09:16 AM »
4x8 or largest MFT bench you have room for, 80/20 fence and dashboard rail hinge will give you the best and most reliable, repeatable crosscuts. 

Offline zachjowi

  • Posts: 62
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2022, 10:25 AM »
Aren't the parallel guides for rip cuts or I'm misunderstanding them? Let's say I've to cut to 150cm length several MDF sheets: can they handle that? As far I knew most parallel guides have max 120cm capacity.

Have you looked at these?  You can also link them together if needed.

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/50-t-tracks-for-tpg-parallel-guide-system-tracks-only/

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6509
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2022, 11:02 AM »
To start with we process hundreds of sheets a month using the TSO system. I do have a sliding table saw with an 8’ stroke, it has been in storage for 3+ years.

We have 2 cutting tables, they are knock down with consumable 2” foam tops.

Our process is;

Straight line one long edge of the sheet

The straight lined edge is the reference edge, using a TSO GRS cross cut the sheet

From here we can use the TSO PG’s to rip to width or cross cut to length. The PG’s guides have no clue if you’re cutting the long edge (ripping) or the short edge (crosscutting).

The cross-cutting is normally done with a single arm on a GRS. As long as you are using the 2 reference edge as the basis for your cuts the edges will be parallel.

Just like any other operation, the more accurately you set the stops the more precise the pieces will be.

I posted this from an iPad, hopefully the pictures don’t rotate….(pictures later, they wouldn’t upload)

Tom


Offline Packard

  • Posts: 946
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2022, 11:10 AM »
I have the TSO Parallel guide and that works well.

Before that, I used stair stops mounted on aluminum rulers,   

  • I would first measure the size and make a mark.
    Then I would place the track in place on the mark.
    Then I would set the stair stop on the rulers to indicate the distance from the edge of the board.
    Then I would use a squeeze clamp to lock two rulers in place and set the stock.
    Then I make sure that the track is butted up against the ends of the rulers.
    Then I remove the rulers and make the cut.

This is perfectly accurate, but slow.


stair stops, about $5.00


Rulers (mine are 60") about $15.00


Note:  It has been a while since I have used this method, but I think I have it right.  The TSO parallel guide is faster and easier to use (but calibrating it challenged me).

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1639
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2022, 11:18 AM »
I cut three sheets at once using my TS75. I clamp all four sides and take my time and it's done it short order. 

Best of luck. 

Offline MaurizioVacca

  • Posts: 18
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2022, 05:40 PM »
4x8 or largest MFT bench you have room for, 80/20 fence and dashboard rail hinge will give you the best and most reliable, repeatable crosscuts.

Yeah, this is probably the way I'll go. I was actually thinking about going two 2x4 MFT and put both on wheels so I can move them around if needed.

I still have to figure out if I would prefer to have one long fence (like the one that BenchdogsUK makes) or something smaller like the Sauter ones.

To start with we process hundreds of sheets a month using the TSO system. I do have a sliding table saw with an 8’ stroke, it has been in storage for 3+ years.

We have 2 cutting tables, they are knock down with consumable 2” foam tops.

Our process is;

Straight line one long edge of the sheet

The straight lined edge is the reference edge, using a TSO GRS cross cut the sheet

From here we can use the TSO PG’s to rip to width or cross cut to length. The PG’s guides have no clue if you’re cutting the long edge (ripping) or the short edge (crosscutting).

The cross-cutting is normally done with a single arm on a GRS. As long as you are using the 2 reference edge as the basis for your cuts the edges will be parallel.

Just like any other operation, the more accurately you set the stops the more precise the pieces will be.

I posted this from an iPad, hopefully the pictures don’t rotate….(pictures later, they wouldn’t upload)

Tom



Hi Tom,

thanks for the detailed reply, it was very helpful. The approach is similar to mine, aside some minor details. My main issue is that instead of parallel guides I use a set of Woodpeckers rulers with a stop, but they're not long enough for cross cutting. What is the maximum capacity for TSO parallel guides?

Best!

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 973
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2022, 05:49 PM »
I'm kind of an outlier in this situation, since I work in a huge industrial cabinet shop. There are several ways to accomplish that in there, but I do have a "Festool way" that I can do right in my own assembly area, rather than having to go to one of the other ways. (That is one of the complications of a huge shop, things are spread out)
I have a 4' x 8' cutting table, which also contains my router table. It is drilled for bench dogs and clips to hold the rail to them. This is not my primary way to cut, but it is incredibly handy. It has a stop that slides in a double T-track with an adhesive-backed tape measure, so accuracy and repeatability are there too.
In an at home type situation, where space would be more important, I would combine this cutting set-up into the main assembly bench. This could eliminate that extra table and save that space.
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Online afish

  • Posts: 875
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2022, 05:58 PM »
4x8 or largest MFT bench you have room for, 80/20 fence and dashboard rail hinge will give you the best and most reliable, repeatable crosscuts.

Yeah, this is probably the way I'll go. I was actually thinking about going two 2x4 MFT and put both on wheels so I can move them around if needed.

I still have to figure out if I would prefer to have one long fence (like the one that BenchdogsUK makes) or something smaller like the Sauter ones.

To start with we process hundreds of sheets a month using the TSO system. I do have a sliding table saw with an 8’ stroke, it has been in storage for 3+ years.

We have 2 cutting tables, they are knock down with consumable 2” foam tops.

Our process is;

Straight line one long edge of the sheet

The straight lined edge is the reference edge, using a TSO GRS cross cut the sheet

From here we can use the TSO PG’s to rip to width or cross cut to length. The PG’s guides have no clue if you’re cutting the long edge (ripping) or the short edge (crosscutting).

The cross-cutting is normally done with a single arm on a GRS. As long as you are using the 2 reference edge as the basis for your cuts the edges will be parallel.

Just like any other operation, the more accurately you set the stops the more precise the pieces will be.

I posted this from an iPad, hopefully the pictures don’t rotate….(pictures later, they wouldn’t upload)

Tom



Hi Tom,

thanks for the detailed reply, it was very helpful. The approach is similar to mine, aside some minor details. My main issue is that instead of parallel guides I use a set of Woodpeckers rulers with a stop, but they're not long enough for cross cutting. What is the maximum capacity for TSO parallel guides?

Best!

I might ruffle some feathers with this but I do not recommend a festool mft or the festool rail hinge.  Festool themselves say that the holes are only close and not guaranteed square and the rail hinge they make well it kind of sucks.  There are lots of squareness issues. I feel you are way better off making your top and bench.  I have posted a lot on this subject if you search posts by me you will have lots of reading info on the subject but here is a link to an old thread to get you started. 

MFT  issues

Online afish

  • Posts: 875
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2022, 08:42 PM »
Here is another thread discussing mft issues.

link

Offline MaurizioVacca

  • Posts: 18
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2022, 03:56 AM »
Here is another thread discussing mft issues.

link

Yes, I should have stated that. I don't have any intention to buy a Festool MFT; I think I will just buy some aluminum table frames using 8020 or something like that and make my own tops, as I did for my current workbench. Main reason is: I want these tables to be on wheels and I want the frames to be 120x80. Most of the things the Festool MFT offers may be interesting for someone, but not for me (I don't need foldable legs, I already have my own fence, and so on).

Also, I like to make my own holes pattern and one of said tables will also be my new router table.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 04:56 AM by MaurizioVacca »

Offline TinyShop

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Offline ttf5003

  • Posts: 53
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2022, 05:02 AM »
I'm just a hobbyist so I don't use a lot of plywood but I break down sheets in the driveway on foam like a lot of others.

I size each piece 1/8" oversize in each direction. Then I take it into the shop and set the table saw to a 1/16" oversize, run it through, then flip it and take the last 1/16" off.

It may seem like a lot of extra steps but I find it quicker then fooling with other options to get perfectly square cuts. Plus I'm doing the extra work inside vs outside.

Online afish

  • Posts: 875
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2022, 07:42 AM »
sorry to tell you but the above method will not guarantee square cuts.  Simply running through a tablesaw will not square something unless you are using a well tuned crosscut sled. If just using the fence if its out of square going in it will be out of square coming out.  Tablesaw is great for giving you nice straight parrellel edges but unless its a slider or you have a well tuned CC sled the tablesaw isnt for "squaring" Problem with a sled is its mostly for smaller items. Once you get into 2'x8' sized pieces, even if you did have a big enough sled its going to be hard to handle. 

I used to break down the sheet with the track saw into a manageable sized piece and get a couple good straight edges to work off.  Then rip everything down on the tablesaw.  then I would set up the crosscut station which was also my outfeed table to cross cut everything square.   

Offline zachjowi

  • Posts: 62
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2022, 12:32 PM »
4x8 or largest MFT bench you have room for, 80/20 fence and dashboard rail hinge will give you the best and most reliable, repeatable crosscuts.

Yeah, this is probably the way I'll go. I was actually thinking about going two 2x4 MFT and put both on wheels so I can move them around if needed.

I still have to figure out if I would prefer to have one long fence (like the one that BenchdogsUK makes) or something smaller like the Sauter ones.

To start with we process hundreds of sheets a month using the TSO system. I do have a sliding table saw with an 8’ stroke, it has been in storage for 3+ years.

We have 2 cutting tables, they are knock down with consumable 2” foam tops.

Our process is;

Straight line one long edge of the sheet

The straight lined edge is the reference edge, using a TSO GRS cross cut the sheet

From here we can use the TSO PG’s to rip to width or cross cut to length. The PG’s guides have no clue if you’re cutting the long edge (ripping) or the short edge (crosscutting).

The cross-cutting is normally done with a single arm on a GRS. As long as you are using the 2 reference edge as the basis for your cuts the edges will be parallel.

Just like any other operation, the more accurately you set the stops the more precise the pieces will be.

I posted this from an iPad, hopefully the pictures don’t rotate….(pictures later, they wouldn’t upload)

Tom



Hi Tom,

thanks for the detailed reply, it was very helpful. The approach is similar to mine, aside some minor details. My main issue is that instead of parallel guides I use a set of Woodpeckers rulers with a stop, but they're not long enough for cross cutting. What is the maximum capacity for TSO parallel guides?

Best!

The link I posted earlier takes you right to the TSO 50" parallel guides which have a 50" cutting capacity.

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/50-t-tracks-for-tpg-parallel-guide-system-tracks-only/

Offline nicholam77

  • Posts: 95
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2022, 01:00 PM »
Probably more involved than you're looking for but I built my own MFT and extension wings.

The MFT alone can handle crosscuts up to 50" with repeatable fence:





Then I made two foldable extension wings that I can use on either side, one or both:





That's my dad not me haha. But you get the idea... can cross cut some really long pieces. No repeatability for those but at least good support.

Can also double them up in the other orientation to support a 4x8 sheet of foam for the rip cuts:



Also comes in handy to support really long pieces for other tasks, too!



Hope that helps — could use your 8020 but in case you don't want one enormous MFT the extension wings are really versatile!
CT15 | ETS 125 REQ

Offline MaurizioVacca

  • Posts: 18
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2022, 02:14 PM »
The link I posted earlier takes you right to the TSO 50" parallel guides which have a 50" cutting capacity.

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/50-t-tracks-for-tpg-parallel-guide-system-tracks-only/

Thanks. Let's say I want to cut multiple panels at 2mt height (which is pretty common for a wardrobe): is there any limit of how much of these segments I can join together? I assume that two set of 50" would be enough for most of my needs.

Probably more involved than you're looking for but I built my own MFT and extension wings.

The MFT alone can handle crosscuts up to 50" with repeatable fence:





Then I made two foldable extension wings that I can use on either side, one or both:





That's my dad not me haha. But you get the idea... can cross cut some really long pieces. No repeatability for those but at least good support.

Can also double them up in the other orientation to support a 4x8 sheet of foam for the rip cuts:



Also comes in handy to support really long pieces for other tasks, too!



Hope that helps — could use your 8020 but in case you don't want one enormous MFT the extension wings are really versatile!


That's great really! A question: are you using the MFT guide rail support? Is it compatible with t-tracks/aluminum extrusion or you had to modify it?

Offline nicholam77

  • Posts: 95
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2022, 04:46 PM »
That's great really! A question: are you using the MFT guide rail support? Is it compatible with t-tracks/aluminum extrusion or you had to modify it?

Thanks! Yes, I am using the rail supports from the MFT. I bought them as separate parts, about $110 USD for the pair.

Although as someone else mentioned, if you can swing the price, the Dashboard ones are much better. Or so everyone says. All I can say is the Festool ones are sloppy. I make it work with how I do my bench setup, but it could be better.

And no, they don't work with the T-Tracks, those are just for Festool quick clamps or other T-Track accessories. I had to make a custom "profile" for the rail support brackets to slide into by routing out the maple and adding some 1/8" bar aluminum. It's based on a design by Guy Dunlap (search Guy's Woodshop on YouTube and he has a video on his).

I also have a thread on my MFT bench that should contain the necessary info to replicate if you'd like more info here.
CT15 | ETS 125 REQ

Offline MaurizioVacca

  • Posts: 18
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2022, 08:34 AM »
Although as someone else mentioned, if you can swing the price, the Dashboard ones are much better. Or so everyone says. All I can say is the Festool ones are sloppy. I make it work with how I do my bench setup, but it could be better.
here[/url].


Interesting. Unfortunately the Dashboard ones seem to not be available in Europe. Any alternative aside these and the Festool ones?

Thanks a lot for the help, I really appreciate it!

Online afish

  • Posts: 875
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2022, 10:39 AM »
I would reach out to them and double check that info.  According to their website it says that VAT import fees etc are not included in the price.  This makes me think they will ship it to you.  HEREis a link to their page that says that if you scroll down near the bottom.  I wouldnt compromise the dashboard hinge is the one you want. 

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 297
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2022, 11:07 AM »
Interesting. Unfortunately the Dashboard ones seem to not be available in Europe. Any alternative aside these and the Festool ones?

To add what @afish wrote, there is a link on the same page just above the VAT statement to request a quote for international shipping.  I have the Dashboard Guide Rail Bracket Bundle, and I am very pleased with it.  I bought mine when I still had access to the U.S. mail system, so I have no idea what the international cost would be.


Here is the link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSchHBJsn_9A0Edt2PDrTw5dgzbYhLNUcyj0qoDcIxEjG6w7ug/viewform?usp=sf_link


Offline MaurizioVacca

  • Posts: 18
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2022, 11:54 AM »
Interesting. Unfortunately the Dashboard ones seem to not be available in Europe. Any alternative aside these and the Festool ones?

To add what @afish wrote, there is a link on the same page just above the VAT statement to request a quote for international shipping.  I have the Dashboard Guide Rail Bracket Bundle, and I am very pleased with it.  I bought mine when I still had access to the U.S. mail system, so I have no idea what the international cost would be.

Here is the link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSchHBJsn_9A0Edt2PDrTw5dgzbYhLNUcyj0qoDcIxEjG6w7ug/viewform?usp=sf_link

A-ha! Thanks, I got fooled by the checkout page where there's no country available outside from US. I asked for a quote, let's see how it goes 🤞

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 366
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2022, 12:31 PM »
I can confirm they do deliver outside the US. I've bought from them and I am In Europe. Good product and nice staff. The shipping costs were quite reasonable.

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 108
Re: How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2022, 01:12 PM »
I’m assuming your issue is getting panels which are exactly the same size? Cut each one from the sheet slightly oversize, clamp a bunch of them together and cut multiple panels in one go.